Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[Ty1on]

That's nice that you have that expectation - but be prepared to live with disappointment. Both Wyndham AND the MRs are the bad actors here. I've always said this - both Wyndham an the rulebreakers have culpability. I sure hope everyone can see that point as valid. If you are using your account for personal use - then you have nothing to worry about. So the question that begs to be asked here then is: are you using your account for anything other than personal use?

Now let's take a step back and look at management by majority customer base. Does this change impact the majority of the ownership base? No it does not. Good businesses focus on issues that impact the majority of their customer base and practice transparency for the majority of their customer base - we are talking about a small subset of 4000 owners - likely a tenth of one percent of the ownership base - that cares about this issue in any capacity. Even given those facts - Wyndham still proactively communicated the upcoming changes to this extremely small subset of the ownership base. They are being transparent about the upcoming changes to the extent that is feasible. Tell me how it makes sense that Wyndham should tell anyone in this extremely small minority that are using their accounts for commercial use exactly how the logic works. Does Microsoft expose any substantive information as to how their systems work within the black box of Azure or Office 365? No they do not - and that's by design - because no customer is entitled to that intellectual property, even under NDA. We as Wyndham customers are also not entitled to their intellectual property with respect to the logic of how their systems function either. Honestly, why would ANY business spend time and effort attempting to appease an extremely small subset of their ownership that is likely already violating their terms of use? I don't know about you - but the logic right there makes zero sense to me.

The elephant in the room is that commercial use by owners has been conducted at the expense of Wyndham via application of VIP discounts (which Wyndham pays for) to resale contracts. I don't think the primary motivator for Wyndham here is owner availability, but rather to stop this corporate financial bleeding that has gone on for years. I do believe that there will be some small benefit to run of the mill owners in abstract, but that wasn't the main goal.

 

[dgalati]

And one would hope there would be an appeals process. And a wyndham apology if they mistakenly target someone. (I’m just full of hope today, lol)
I think that is part of what frustrates me. I get why they won’t reveal their reasoning, but they should at minimum reveal their process. Regular owners who get caught up in this madness need to know how it gets resolved. Identification is just the first step.
So if I were Wyndham I'd set up the following and tell owners about it - even if it is just in the directory:
1. Identification and letter sent with required steps the owner needs to take. And an outline of what the owner must present to rebut the accusation.
2. Rebuttal from owner or nonrebuttal (essentially an acceptance they will take the steps, without accepting the charge made by wyndham)
3. Review of the rebuttal by wyndham
4. Personal meeting (virtually) between wyndham and owner if disagreement continues.
5. Mediation if required
6. Arbitration if no agreement has been met
7. Legal proceedings if needed.

Sounds like you want a level playing field. Wyndham has some culpability in the mega renter problem and they should admit some responsibility to it. Look at when they took out @ronparise they were tiring to crucify him but they were buying all his stripped deeds. My scenario was similar to Ron's but on a much smaller scale. Wyndham tried to squeeze me on a negative balance until I let them know they were the buyer of the deeds with no current use years points. There is a pattern of Wyndham not taking the blame for what is going on in their house. They participated in buying deeds third party knowing that no points are available. At least that was the case in my transactions as I insisted that it was stated no current use year points are available until 2020. I remember the Resale broker said it didn't matter that purchase agreement stated current use year points were available for 2019. I insisted it should read 2020. In hindsight it saved me probably $7200.

 

[HitchHiker71]

And one would hope there would be an appeals process. And a wyndham apology if they mistakenly target someone. (I’m just full of hope today, lol)
I think that is part of what frustrates me. I get why they won’t reveal their reasoning, but they should at minimum reveal their process. Regular owners who get caught up in this madness need to know how it gets resolved. Identification is just the first step.
So if I were Wyndham I'd set up the following and tell owners about it - even if it is just in the directory:
1. Identification and letter sent with required steps the owner needs to take. And an outline of what the owner must present to rebut the accusation.
2. Rebuttal from owner or nonrebuttal (essentially an acceptance they will take the steps, without accepting the charge made by wyndham)
3. Review of the rebuttal by wyndham
4. Personal meeting (virtually) between wyndham and owner if disagreement continues.
5. Mediation if required
6. Arbitration if no agreement has been met
7. Legal proceedings if needed.

Per the thread we have on this specific topic - we have a FAQ that clearly outlines to contact Wyndham with any questions or concerns - along with a dedicated toll free line for owners with detailed questions that was shared in the online education session (and in the same thread here on TUG). I think the folks here on TUG have - at least to some extent - outsized and unrealistic expectations given the extremely narrow scope of impact for the announced change, that just happens to be overly represented here on the TUG Wyndham forums. A simple phone call into the dedicated toll free line once the changes have been rolled out is the path forward to address any questions related to this change. That is what I will be doing if/when necessary.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The elephant in the room is that commercial use by owners has been conducted at the expense of Wyndham via application of VIP discounts (which Wyndham pays for) to resale contracts. I don't think the primary motivator for Wyndham here is owner availability, but rather to stop this corporate financial bleeding that has gone on for years. I do believe that there will be some small benefit to run of the mill owners in abstract, but that wasn't the main goal.

I don't disagree. Oftentimes there are multiple reasons for taking certain business actions. T&L has a fiduciary responsibility first and foremost to it's shareholders (to make profits). So I'd assume that one of the reasons for VIP benefits no longer applying to resale contracts is because the cost-benefit ratio for the Sales & Marketing division is no longer a net positive - or perhaps there's a strategic change in play. I'd surmise that given T&L has indicated future directions with respect to subscription products coming to market - that the strategic imperatives have changed - and those imperatives undoubtedly impact current business decisions as to how to fund certain programs - like the VIP program - over the medium to long term - so those changes need to start now as opposed to later down the line. Yes, we suspect availability will get better for owners that plan proactively - but we can also confidently assert there are other benefits for T&L in play resulting from the announced changes.

 

[VacayKat]

Per the thread we have on this specific topic - we have a FAQ that clearly outlines to contact Wyndham with any questions or concerns - along with a dedicated toll free line for owners with detailed questions that was shared in the online education session (and in the same thread here on TUG). I think the folks here on TUG have - at least to some extent - outsized and unrealistic expectations given the extremely narrow scope of impact for the announced change, that just happens to be overly represented here on the TUG Wyndham forums. A simple phone call into the dedicated toll free line once the changes have been rolled out is the path forward to address any questions related to this change. That is what I will be doing if/when necessary.

yes to what you said, but I was saying this is with regards to those singled out as violators- Wyndham needs to be transparent in their process, unless it is, you’re identified, do as we tell you or we cut off your access and you keep paying MF, which is probably illegal. Even if it is narrow scope there is a chance they identify someone incorrectly. And all owners have a right to know the process of how Wyndham deals with folks they consider violators. And they should have their legal dept phone number attached in some way, customer service or owner care just don’t have the answers or the authority for this.

 

[HitchHiker71]

yes to what you said, but I was saying this is with regards to those singled out as violators- Wyndham needs to be transparent in their process, unless it is, you’re identified, do as we tell you or we cut off your access and you keep paying MF, which is probably illegal. Even if it is narrow scope there is a chance they identify someone incorrectly. And all owners have a right to know the process of how Wyndham deals with folks they consider violators. And they should have their legal dept phone number attached in some way, customer service or owner care just don’t have the answers or the authority for this.

Since we haven't seen the contents of the cease and desist letter - or at least I haven't - we cannot know either way what was provided - nor will Wyndham share the letters of course - and I suspect there may be multiple letter templates in play. I would suspect contact information was given in the letter for the impacted owners to follow up with any questions or concerns - like a another dedicated line - but that's just a guess on my part - I honestly have no idea. I also disagree with the assessment that all owners have a right to know the process. So would any lawyer. We are on a need to know basis, and we don't need to know. That's like saying everyone should be able to know the process for a specific class action lawsuit even if they aren't included in the affected class. Same concept - if you aren't in the affected class - you aren't entitled to any documentation or information about the either the class action case itself nor the proposed settlement process - and you are not privy to the list of plaintiffs nor the notice of settlement. This is a legal process - defined and managed by lawyers - and Wyndham has very good lawyers. Whatever we may think is largely irrelevant - it's the legal process that must be followed.

 

[VacayKat]

Since we haven't seen the contents of the cease and desist letter - or at least I haven't - we cannot know either way what was provided - nor will Wyndham share the letters of course - and I suspect there may be multiple letter templates in play. I would suspect contact information was given in the letter for the impacted owners to follow up with any questions or concerns - like a another dedicated line - but that's just a guess on my part - I honestly have no idea. I also disagree with the assessment that all owners have a right to know the process. So would any lawyer. We are on a need to know basis, and we don't need to know. That's like saying everyone should be able to know the process for a specific class action lawsuit even if they aren't included in the affected class. Same concept - if you aren't in the affected class - you aren't entitled to any documentation or information about the either the class action case itself nor the proposed settlement process - and you are not privy to the list of plaintiffs nor the notice of settlement. This is a legal process - defined and managed by lawyers - and Wyndham has very good lawyers. Whatever we may think is largely irrelevant - it's the legal process that must be followed.

Well let me rephrase it. If it is different than what is outlined in the contract I signed, yes, I have a right to know, and all lawyers would agree with that. There is always a clause in contracts that states what happens if one side breaches it. If there isn’t it is a deficient contract.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Well let me rephrase it. If it is different than what is outlined in the contract I signed, yes, I have a right to know, and all lawyers would agree with that. There is always a clause in contracts that states what happens if one side breaches it. If there isn’t it is a deficient contract.

Agreed - but it's not limited to just the contract we all signed - but also all of the founding trust documents that are referenced in the signatured contracts. I will confess to having reviewed the signatured documents - but still haven't read through the entirety of the founding trust document sets. I'd have to go looking to see what legal verbiage exists as it relates to breach clauses, if any, within the founding trust documentation.

 

[paxsarah]

Today when I logged into my dashboard there was a banner at the top stating:
OWNER PRIORITY RESERVATIONS
Guest reservations are limited during peak travel times. Before you book a vacation for a guest, review the dates and information on Owner Priority Reservations.
Learn More (button)

Is this new? It's nice that months after they instituted it they added an announcement that's impossible to miss.

 

[Eric B]

Today when I logged into my dashboard there was a banner at the top stating:
OWNER PRIORITY RESERVATIONS
Guest reservations are limited during peak travel times. Before you book a vacation for a guest, review the dates and information on Owner Priority Reservations.
Learn More (button)

Is this new? It's nice that months after they instituted it they added an announcement that's impossible to miss.

The banner is new. Doesn't look like much has changed on the list.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Today when I logged into my dashboard there was a banner at the top stating:
OWNER PRIORITY RESERVATIONS
Guest reservations are limited during peak travel times. Before you book a vacation for a guest, review the dates and information on Owner Priority Reservations.
Learn More (button)

Is this new? It's nice that months after they instituted it they added an announcement that's impossible to miss.

IMHO this is a great example of not using a context sensitive help type feature that is prevalent on many websites today. Context sensitive help features only appear when you actually select a function for which the help is directly applicable. For example, having this banner alert appear for all owners upon login seems like overkill. I'm hopeful that the banner is only appearing for owners who have actually used GCs in the current use year - otherwise Wyndham is advertising a banner that likely only applies to a subset of owners that actually use GCs. My thought is - the banner should only appear - or a pop-up alert or a text block should only appear that would only bring this helpful information to light when the owner actually chooses the option to assign the reservation to a Guest via a GC. That way - every time an owner selects that option - only then does this reminder appear - since it's really only applicable when processing a net new reservation or modifying an existing reservation. If we have collective agreement that a more context sensitive help feature along this line would work better - I'm happy to add this to our sheet for review and follow up.

 

[Eric B]

IMHO this is a great example of not using a context sensitive help type feature that is prevalent on many websites today. Context sensitive help features only appear when you actually select a function for which the help is directly applicable. For example, having this banner alert appear for all owners upon login seems like overkill. I'm hopeful that the banner is only appearing for owners who have actually used GCs in the current use year - otherwise Wyndham is advertising a banner that likely only applies to a subset of owners that actually use GCs. My thought is - the banner should only appear - or a pop-up alert or a text block should only appear that would only bring this helpful information to light when the owner actually chooses the option to assign the reservation to a Guest via a GC. That way - every time an owner selects that option - only then does this reminder appear - since it's really only applicable when processing a net new reservation or modifying an existing reservation. If we have collective agreement that a more context sensitive help feature along this line would work better - I'm happy to add this to our sheet for review and follow up.

My two cents $0.66 on this - if we were to add this to the sheet, I would suggest making it context specific to GCs for dates and resorts on the list.

The list itself on the site linked from the banner is one of the least user-friendly things I've seen because you have to open each specific holiday/period, without an indication of what dates are covered by it, in order to see what resorts are effected, then have to scan through the entire list because they didn't alphabetize them. They are setting owners up for failure due to an incredibly poor design.

 

[Ty1on]

IMHO this is a great example of not using a context sensitive help type feature that is prevalent on many websites today. Context sensitive help features only appear when you actually select a function for which the help is directly applicable. For example, having this banner alert appear for all owners upon login seems like overkill. I'm hopeful that the banner is only appearing for owners who have actually used GCs in the current use year - otherwise Wyndham is advertising a banner that likely only applies to a subset of owners that actually use GCs. My thought is - the banner should only appear - or a pop-up alert or a text block should only appear that would only bring this helpful information to light when the owner actually chooses the option to assign the reservation to a Guest via a GC. That way - every time an owner selects that option - only then does this reminder appear - since it's really only applicable when processing a net new reservation or modifying an existing reservation. If we have collective agreement that a more context sensitive help feature along this line would work better - I'm happy to add this to our sheet for review and follow up.

On the other hand, I'd be a big fan of Wyndham getting the simple one dimensional stuff to actually work right, then move on to more complex things like context sensitive messaging and filtering.

 

[Lisa P]

It's useful to me to see it before I make any reservations, just as a banner announcement. I'd want to know this before I offer to book vacations for extended family & friends, not after I've gone through all the trouble of researching availability and discussing preferences and schedules with everyone. So an eye-catching banner announcement for everyone for a couple of months makes sense to me. It won't be missed by people who don't read their emails or who used up their free GC's earlier in their use year.

I do wish the linked list was alphabetized and much more user friendly.

 

[chapjim]

My two cents $0.66 on this - if we were to add this to the sheet, I would suggest making it context specific to GCs for dates and resorts on the list.

The list itself on the site linked from the banner is one of the least user-friendly things I've seen because you have to open each specific holiday/period, without an indication of what dates are covered by it, in order to see what resorts are effected, then have to scan through the entire list because they didn't alphabetize them. They are setting owners up for failure due to an incredibly poor design.

At least something unexpected didn't happen!

 

[paxsarah]

It's useful to me to see it before I make any reservations, just as a banner announcement. I'd want to know this before I offer to book vacations for extended family & friends, not after I've gone through all the trouble of researching availability and discussing preferences and schedules with everyone. So an eye-catching banner announcement for everyone for a couple of months makes sense to me. It won't be missed by people who don't read their emails or who used up their free GC's earlier in their use year.

I do wish the linked list was alphabetized and much more user friendly.

I agree with this - everyone should see this at least once. Ideally there should be a “don’t show this again” option to click that then actually sticks and doesn’t show this again.

 

[Ty1on]

I agree with this - everyone should see this at least once. Ideally there should be a “don’t show this again” option to click that then actually sticks and doesn’t show this again.

What if on the review page when making specific reservations, there is a context-specific note stating something like "guest certificates are not available for this reservation"? It doesn't seem like that would be difficult to code in....

 

[chapjim]

I agree with this - everyone should see this at least once. Ideally there should be a “don’t show this again” option to click that then actually sticks and doesn’t show this again.

Since I use Guest Confirmations now and then, I like that Wyndham is no longer playing Hide The Ball with the restricted list. It was pretty hard to find so I expanded every entry on the list and printed it. One more thing to check when making a reservation along with trying to decide what kind of points to use.

 

[paxsarah]

It was pretty hard to find so I expanded every entry on the list and printed it.

To find it, I simply search “guest” and it’s typically the second result.
On the old website, I used to know pretty much the exact route to drill down through the menus to find any fact I needed. But apparently they can teach an old dog new tricks, because on the current site I’ve given up on menu paths and basically use the search to find everything - the drawback being that you kind of have to already know what you’re looking for.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I feel badly for those who occasionally did a rental to help pay fees but generally used most of their points themselves. The workaround is to book guests when you are going to be there, too. I am planning to do some of that myself. I have some Bonnet Creek stays next year already worked out, but let's see if they let me add guests to some of those same weeks.

 

[scootr5]

What if on the review page when making specific reservations, there is a context-specific note stating something like "guest certificates are not available for this reservation"? It doesn't seem like that would be difficult to code in....

I think that would be far more difficult than you might suspect. A couple of reasons I can think of off the top of my head:
Has the owner used their free GCs yet for the year?
Is the owner going to be at the resort at the same time? Maybe the owner hasn't made their reservation yet.

 

[Ty1on]

I think that would be far more difficult than you might suspect. A couple of reasons I can think of off the top of my head:
Has the owner used their free GCs yet for the year?
Is the owner going to be at the resort at the same time? Maybe the owner hasn't made their reservation yet.

"This reservation has restrictions to guest certificate use. See rules" with a popup link.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Today when I logged into my dashboard there was a banner at the top stating:
OWNER PRIORITY RESERVATIONS
Guest reservations are limited during peak travel times. Before you book a vacation for a guest, review the dates and information on Owner Priority Reservations.
Learn More (button)

Is this new? It's nice that months after they instituted it they added an announcement that's impossible to miss.

Nothing is impossible to miss, LOL.

Personally, I would suggest using the search function. It's something, if I were Wyndham, I would recommend for training to VC's. Searching for 'Owner priority', 'travel deals', etc. It's a useful tool that might save a lot of calls to the VC's. Might go a lot further than a popup suggesting to online users that they not call in (yes, I still get that).

And then there's this.... The actual confirmation, what you'll see on a BC reservation today. What a mess (really the whole thing, mine refers to my PR benefits (and I'm not PR)). It includes information that is, what, 6 months outdated now?

Any guest reservation made or added after March 15, 2021, for travel on June 25 – July 9, Nov. 19 – 27 & Dec. 17 – Jan. 2, 2022, will be subject to cancellation and notified via email. Points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest confirmation(s) will be returned within 5-7 business days of cancellation.​

 

[Sandi Bo]

Since I use Guest Confirmations now and then, I like that Wyndham is no longer playing Hide The Ball with the restricted list. It was pretty hard to find so I expanded every entry on the list and printed it. One more thing to check when making a reservation along with trying to decide what kind of points to use.

It's still the same klugy, collapsed list...

 

[paxsarah]

New batch just dropped.