Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[Eric B]

My thoughts on the subject of metrics are that they are only worthwhile if they are meaningful, measurable, and actionable. I don't think the metric of owner occupation percentage changes meets any other than the measurable, and as reported by Wyndham that doesn't really seem to fit either since it's not well explained. I read the email with a great deal of skepticism because it seems like a lot of spin and makes a lot of assumptions that don't seem really well supported.

One metric that they don't seem to be touting is the change in the number of owners and the number of points owned. IIRC, there was a slide that flashed up briefly in the annual meeting showing a decline in both of those numbers. If I were working in the C suite at Wyndham, that would be one of the things I would look at as a metric and I sure wouldn't be bragging about it if they are both declining. I have a hunch that the numbers won't be going in a great direction for them this year, either - hence the spin.

Looking at the owner occupancy rate from the perspective of whether it's meaningful gives me some pause. I don't believe that Wyndham's Mission or Vision are to drive up owner occupancy rates at Club Wyndham resorts as opposed to delivering meaningful and enjoyable vacation experiences to owners, renters and exchangers wherever they stay. That latter one seems more like what it should be - otherwise they should divest RCI, Registry Collection, and Extra Holidays. I'm also not all that convinced that it's actionable to any great extent. The email seemed to draw the conclusion that their prioritizing owner reservations is what drove up owner occupancy rates, which might be believable if that was all that was going on. IIRC, though, there have been a number of restrictions on travel that could be preventing owners from going elsewhere. I could be mistaken, but would guess that the inability to go to a lot of Caribbean and Mexican resorts led to a lot of owners not exchanging in Wyndham and in a lot of other mini-systems. It will be interesting to see if the owner occupancy rates continue to rise with the greater restrictions on guest reservations and rentals they're instituting next year - it will also be interesting to see if the top line numbers for owners and points owned are at all effected by the greater restrictions on use of the ownership (which can include rentals).

I think there's a fairly rational basis for the decisions they made on restricting the VIP benefits. The way things worked before didn't seem to align the incentives well with the desired behaviors of the consumers when it comes down to it. We'll see whether the guest restrictions continue to provide the benefits Wyndham seems to be touting them as providing, particularly with the issues they seem to have with setting the rules up for their implementation clearly enough for their IT systems and their customer service folks to get them done right.

 

[Jethro37]

I'd like to know what the mix is by the following classifications.

Owner occupancy
Owner reserved guests
Discovery Package users
RCI guests
3rd party provider bookings(Extra Holiday, etc..)
Resort sales direct
Resort Sales for promotions (pitching wyndham)

I hypothesize total percentage of the first two on that list may be a good bit smaller than we think, but that's what they're tinkering with to make more owners happy.

Major public relations hit not withstanding, that would probably be a disaster to release from a competitive business standpoint. I'm sure lifting the curtain on what happens and revealing business operations/ trade secrets isn't going to happen.

Maybe we could just ask the %occupancy of owners and owners guest and leave it at that.

 

[CO skier]

Maybe we could just ask the %occupancy of owners and owners guest and leave it at that.

Or maybe ask for

% occupancy owners 2019 vs. 2021
% occupancy owner guests 2019 vs. 2021
% all other guests 2019 vs. 2021

for Bonnet Creek July 4th and Park City Labor Day, at a minimum, for examples.

% all other in the aggregate would not reveal any "trade secrets" and likely be less than 10% (maybe less than half that). That statistic would kill another conspiracy theory.

 

[Jethro37]

Or maybe ask for

% occupancy owners 2019 vs. 2021
% occupancy owner guests 2019 vs. 2021
% all other guests 2019 vs. 2021

for Bonnet Creek July 4th and Park City Labor Day, at a minimum, for examples.

% all other in the aggregate would not reveal any "trade secrets" and likely be less than 10% (maybe less than half that). That statistic would kill another conspiracy theory.

I like the idea of dispelling the myth if it is one. For truly prime weeks it would make sense to keep most all inventory available to owners since it should all get booked.

On the other hand, I'd think they would want some inventory available to market to non-owners that only vacation during peak dates.

I'm a flexible value shopper myself so would rather they leave plenty of inventory available for the less expensive spring and fall periods.

This may have already been mentioned in this thread. Could the primary reason for cutting back on points being rented be to make that a less viable option and encourage non-owners to buy into the system?

 

[Sandi Bo]

Thanks for putting a list together @Jethro37 There are so many variables, it would take a consider level of detail to vet anything meaningful from the data (even if Wyndham were to provide it). Then you'd want to know date ranges - were they holiday, were they blacked out, etc. Was Wyndham playing other games with inventory at that time or was there maintenance at that time? So many variables. Maybe it's just understanding that all those things could be going on. In which case, I like your list, but would be interested in seeing a breakdown of EH versus other 3rd party reservations (and again have no expectation Wyndham would provide that).

Maybe just begs the question that Wyndham shouldn't be throwing around numbers to daze and dazzle those that like to believe this kind of stuff. There was a lot of positive responses (on FB) to the numbers - thanks Wyndham, about time Wyndham, etc. And that's really what Wyndham is after, right, doesn't really matter if the numbers can be explained or have any basis.

And some of us don't get any of these emails (this one, nor the owner priority black out date stuff), an ongoing problem.

 

[Sandi Bo]

My thoughts on the subject of metrics are that they are only worthwhile if they are meaningful, measurable, and actionable. I don't think the metric of owner occupation percentage changes meets any other than the measurable, and as reported by Wyndham that doesn't really seem to fit either since it's not well explained. I read the email with a great deal of skepticism because it seems like a lot of spin and makes a lot of assumptions that don't seem really well supported.

One metric that they don't seem to be touting is the change in the number of owners and the number of points owned. IIRC, there was a slide that flashed up briefly in the annual meeting showing a decline in both of those numbers. If I were working in the C suite at Wyndham, that would be one of the things I would look at as a metric and I sure wouldn't be bragging about it if they are both declining. I have a hunch that the numbers won't be going in a great direction for them this year, either - hence the spin.

Looking at the owner occupancy rate from the perspective of whether it's meaningful gives me some pause. I don't believe that Wyndham's Mission or Vision are to drive up owner occupancy rates at Club Wyndham resorts as opposed to delivering meaningful and enjoyable vacation experiences to owners, renters and exchangers wherever they stay. That latter one seems more like what it should be - otherwise they should divest RCI, Registry Collection, and Extra Holidays. I'm also not all that convinced that it's actionable to any great extent. The email seemed to draw the conclusion that their prioritizing owner reservations is what drove up owner occupancy rates, which might be believable if that was all that was going on. IIRC, though, there have been a number of restrictions on travel that could be preventing owners from going elsewhere. I could be mistaken, but would guess that the inability to go to a lot of Caribbean and Mexican resorts led to a lot of owners not exchanging in Wyndham and in a lot of other mini-systems. It will be interesting to see if the owner occupancy rates continue to rise with the greater restrictions on guest reservations and rentals they're instituting next year - it will also be interesting to see if the top line numbers for owners and points owned are at all effected by the greater restrictions on use of the ownership (which can include rentals).

I think there's a fairly rational basis for the decisions they made on restricting the VIP benefits. The way things worked before didn't seem to align the incentives well with the desired behaviors of the consumers when it comes down to it. We'll see whether the guest restrictions continue to provide the benefits Wyndham seems to be touting them as providing, particularly with the issues they seem to have with setting the rules up for their implementation clearly enough for their IT systems and their customer service folks to get them done right.

I am retired now, but spent about 1/2 my career in development and 1/2 my career in QA. At one time we were bought out by a foreign group that was insanely obsessed with metrics. I became known as the metrics queen. The key to making people happy was determining what they wanted. The QA heads wanted less time in test, of course the dev heads wanted less time in dev. Notoriously, dev would hand over code to test on Friday afternoons. QA wouldn't accept the code until Monday. 2 dead days no-one wanted on their clock. No checks or balances. It was comical, but made everyone happy (well happier). People can really worry about stuff that is not important. That was my take on the metrics. Figure out what they wanted, be able to substantiate what we were claiming, don't spend a lot of time doing this, and then focus on getting the real work done.

So that's how I feel about metrics

 

[wed100105]

I thought I was in the right, and then had a mild panic moment this morning because I don’t trust Wyndham.

Last May I booked a week at Royal Vista for Christmas. Our flight plans have changed from our original guess and now there is no availability. I rented out my Royal Vista reservation to another owner (not that it matters since I had to use a guest confirmation). I haven’t used my two guest confirmations during owner priority time since the policy began. I used a ton of guest confirmations at Glacier Canyon this year, but not during 4th of July or Labor Day. This morning I was panicking that there was some reservation that’s dates fell during these new owner times that I had on the reservations before all of this went into effect. If Wyndham is going to do this they should at least have to have the website working to confirm or deny the guest confirmation. This is ridiculous.

Meanwhile, I’m now trying to only book reservations for the Dells that I can overlap with personal reservations to avoid the guest confirmation policy changes since Glacier Canyon is blocked out all holiday weekends and summer. Do nights have to overlap or does checking out on Monday (or any day of the week) and a new reservation starting on Monday work?

 

[Sandi Bo]

I thought I was in the right, and then had a mild panic moment this morning because I don’t trust Wyndham.

Last May I booked a week at Royal Vista for Christmas. Our flight plans have changed from our original guess and now there is no availability. I rented out my Royal Vista reservation to another owner (not that it matters since I had to use a guest confirmation). I haven’t used my two guest confirmations during owner priority time since the policy began. I used a ton of guest confirmations at Glacier Canyon this year, but not during 4th of July or Labor Day. This morning I was panicking that there was some reservation that’s dates fell during these new owner times that I had on the reservations before all of this went into effect. If Wyndham is going to do this they should at least have to have the website working to confirm or deny the guest confirmation. This is ridiculous.

Meanwhile, I’m now trying to only book reservations for the Dells that I can overlap with personal reservations to avoid the guest confirmation policy changes since Glacier Canyon is blocked out all holiday weekends and summer. Do nights have to overlap or does checking out on Monday (or any day of the week) and a new reservation starting on Monday work?

I agree. Sure seems like we ought to have a way to check and see if we've (intentionally or accidentally) used our 2 exceptions. I have not called for some time, but last I did, I got now warm fuzzies that the VC's could really tell. There should be a place to look and see (online) - perhaps on the points summary screen.

I do not think checking out the same day as a new reservation starts is considered overlapping. That's just my personal opinion. It doesn't when they are checking for the 10 reservation limit, I wouldn't expect it to count in these owner priority scenarios, either.

Isn't everyday a mild panic moment these days with Wyndham? I do believe that's the plan. They really don't want to make any of this easy, not even for those of us trying to follow the rules.

 

[chapjim]

I agree. Sure seems like we ought to have a way to check and see if we've (intentionally or accidentally) used our 2 exceptions. I have not called for some time, but last I did, I got now warm fuzzies that the VC's could really tell. There should be a place to look and see (online) - perhaps on the points summary screen.

I do not think checking out the same day as a new reservation starts is considered overlapping. That's just my personal opinion. It doesn't when they are checking for the 10 reservation limit, I wouldn't expect it to count in these owner priority scenarios, either.

Isn't everyday a mild panic moment these days with Wyndham? I do believe that's the plan. They really don't want to make any of this easy, not even for those of us trying to follow the rules.

There's no overlap when that happens. Similarly, when a weekend is restricted, you can book a Sunday PM check-in with a Friday AM check-out without violatiing the owners only restriction.

I'm no longer panicky after the most recent change. Just waiting for the next one to come crashing in.

 

[jd5504]

There's no overlap when that happens. Similarly, when a weekend is restricted, you can book a Sunday PM check-in with a Friday AM check-out without violatiing the owners only restriction.

I'm no longer panicky after the most recent change. Just waiting for the next one to come crashing in.

Jim,
I find the new Owner Priority policy disingenuous on the part of Wyndham. I have Presidential contracts in NYC which I would have never bought (too many points) but was always told I could subsidize MF's through renting. I use to get 45 Guest passes a year. Now it seems whether you bought on ebay or through the company you get the same guest passes. I use some of my points to recoup MF's and some for relatives to stay which will no longer happen.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Jim,
I find the new Owner Priority policy disingenuous on the part of Wyndham. I have Presidential contracts in NYC which I would have never bought (too many points) but was always told I could subsidize MF's through renting. I use to get 45 Guest passes a year. Now it seems whether you bought on ebay or through the company you get the same guest passes. I use some of my points to recoup MF's and some for relatives to stay which will no longer happen.

That sales pitch that you can rent what you don't use, that entire pitch just makes me angry all over again. I hope they drop that line from the sales' table because it's nothing but lies.

 

[chapjim]

That sales pitch that you can rent what you don't use, that entire pitch just makes me angry all over again. I hope they drop that line from the sales' table because it's nothing but lies.

Oh, that! We meant renting through Extra Holidays!! You thought we meant renting via ebay and RedWeek.com? Gee, we're really sorry you misunderstood us.

 

[paxsarah]

Now it seems whether you bought on ebay or through the company you get the same guest passes.

If you bought through eBay you get 2 guest certificates per year. It is true that if you bought through Wyndham but are not VIP you get the same 2. All VIP levels receive more.

 

[paxsarah]

I just received a "Wyndham Insider" email that indicated there are new owner priority dates. They go through Christmas 2023, and it looks like the effective date on newly added ones is April 15th. There are also three "full year" resorts!

 

[HitchHiker71]

I just received a "Wyndham Insider" email that indicated there are new owner priority dates. They go through Christmas 2023, and it looks like the effective date on newly added ones is April 15th. There are also three "full year" resorts!

Good info - thanks for the heads up. Looks like Wyndham continues to expand the concept as expected to continue to discourage rentals.

For ease of reference - here’s the three resorts that are blocked out for all of 2023:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rpeacock]

What the heck does this sentence mean? " You can travel with your guests to these resorts during the dates listed below and may use two guest confirmations per year during the restricted dates when not travelling with your guests.
It's within the Timeshare Owner Priority Reservations explanation.

Shouldn't the sentence read something like this? "You can travel with your guests to these Resorts during the dates listed below with no restrictions on your allocated guest reservations. If you are not traveling with your guests during the dates below you may use, for their reservation, up to two guest reservations per year.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

 

[Pathways]

Good info - thanks for the heads up. Looks like Wyndham continues to expand the concept as expected to continue to discourage rentals.

For ease of reference - here’s the three resorts that are blocked out for all of 2023:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The thing I hate is how difficult/time-consuming it is to verify if a resort is affected.

I usually do not search for---gee, I think I will travel on presidents day 2023, which resort is affected. (which also could be affected by 'winter', ski', or something else, like 'all of 2023'

Even after searching through all that, you still wonder if you missed something.

Instead, I want to travel to....say Austin. I should be able to click on Austin and get ALL the dates COMPLETE that that resort is restricted.

If in fact that is available now, I am not seeing it.

 

[r4rab]

The thing I hate is how difficult/time-consuming it is to verify if a resort is affected.

I usually do not search for---gee, I think I will travel on presidents day 2023, which resort is affected. (which also could be affected by 'winter', ski', or something else, like 'all of 2023'

Even after searching through all that, you still wonder if you missed something.

Instead, I want to travel to....say Austin. I should be able to click on Austin and get ALL the dates COMPLETE that that resort is restricted.

If in fact that is available now, I am not seeing it.

If you are the one travelling why do you care about the priority dates? I only check them if I think would need more reservations than owners on our account or if I were going to rent (which I haven't done).

 

[Pathways]

If you are the one travelling why do you care about the priority dates? I only check them if I think would need more reservations than owners on our account or if I were going to rent (which I haven't done).

Obviously, b/c I'm not always the one traveling. (sorry if you took my working that literal)

When my kids, ( a couple who are not on the account b/c Wyndham limits the max number), want to travel I am usually the one checking for availability.

As you probably noted, I'm not complaining about the policy, I'm suggesting an easier way to verify and eliminate issues. (Again, unless HitchHiker71 or someone else tells me an easy way I am missing)

 

[scootr5]

What the heck does this sentence mean? " You can travel with your guests to these resorts during the dates listed below and may use two guest confirmations per year during the restricted dates when not travelling with your guests.
It's within the Timeshare Owner Priority Reservations explanation.

Shouldn't the sentence read something like this? "You can travel with your guests to these Resorts during the dates listed below with no restrictions on your allocated guest reservations. If you are not traveling with your guests during the dates below you may use, for their reservation, up to two guest reservations per year.

Unless I’m mistaken, you can not use purchased guest certificates when not traveling with them. They can only be the two included for “free“ each year.

 

[Pathways]

Unless I’m mistaken, you can not use purchased guest certificates when not traveling with them. They can only be the two included for “free“ each year.

Purchased or free, doesn't matter, none of this refers to the cost.

You are now allowed two guest certificates a year for use at a resort during that resorts restricted time period without the owner being present. During the dates with no restrictions, there is no limit on guest certificates.

These restrictions don't apply when others check in during the time the owner is present in a different unit.

Whether you pay for the guest certificate simply depends on your status.

 

[jhoug]

Why do they have to specify the Sundance Film festival dates Jan 2023 at Park City when they've already blocked out the Ski Season Jan-Mar 2023 at Park City?

 

[Eric B]

Why do they have to specify the Sundance Film festival dates Jan 2023 at Park City when they've already blocked out the Ski Season Jan-Mar 2023 at Park City?

Because they really, really mean it.

 

[scootr5]

Whether you pay for the guest certificate simply depends on your status.

Then something has apparently changed sine the June 2021 email sent out that stated "For reservations at identified resorts during the select travel periods when you are not traveling with your guests, up to two times a year, you can use a Guest Confirmation from your annual allotment."

 

[Eric B]

Then something has apparently changed sine the June 2021 email sent out that stated "For reservations at identified resorts during the select travel periods when you are not traveling with your guests, up to two times a year, you can use a Guest Confirmation from your annual allotment."

The current wording, copied below, doesn't use the limitation of "from your annual allotment" and that email was never really made a part of the guidelines but instead established as a temporary policy.

"You can travel with your guests to these resorts during the dates listed below and may use two guest confirmations per year during the restricted dates when not travelling with your guests. Any guest reservations made after the dates listed below at the following resorts during the select peak travel periods will be subject to cancellation (including guests added to an existing reservation after those dates)."

As usual, they did a poor job of wording the "policy" because it isn't clear whether it's a calendar year or a use year limitation. They also don't do a great job of empowering anyone to make a decision on how it should be applied in individual cases and informing potentially effected owners of how to find out for sure what their rights are.

One other thought is that I have yet to rent out any bookings in any of the peak travel periods, but one thing that strikes me is someone that wants to rent out Clearwater in 2023 will have less competition and be able to charge more. It isn't obvious whether there would be unintended consequences driving multiple small renters to book and rent out two desirable periods there rather than the boogeymen megarenters being limited to just two and whether the net effect on timeshare owner availability will match what they are saying it will. If you follow the money as an incentive to renting, I wouldn't be surprised to see more renting going on there than there was before. There's definitely a benefit that could be had in establishing real, transparent, and fixed policies for usage that apply to everyone.