Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[scootr5]

Does this mean an owner could make 10 reservations for his various friends and family members at one of the restricted resorts at a restricted time, as long as he himself was staying at the resort.

That would be my interpretation of it; Wyndham's of course may differ.

 

[Eric B]

Does this mean an owner could make 10 reservations for his various friends and family members at one of the restricted resorts at a restricted time, as long as he himself was staying at the resort.

Only 9 - the owner’s would be the tenth and get to the limit.

 

[ronparise]

Only 9 - the owner’s would be the tenth and get to the limit.

Got it, I forgot about that 10 reservation limit

and if my wife reserved a room at La belle Maison for Mardi Gras, and I reserved a room at Avenue Plaza we could reserve 9 more rooms at each resort for guests...does that sound possible

I only ask because I got a call from Wyndham recently, inviting me to an internet presentation, to explain all the new stuff to me. When I asked if this would end with a sales presentation she said, yes, as usual there would be an offer. I reminded her that I was on a do not sell list and wondered if that had changed.. She was convinced that if she couldnt sell to me , I wouldnt have ended up on her call list... So maybe Wyndham will let me own again

I think it may be time to have some fun.... Thats what timeshares are for...right??

 

[Eric B]

Got it, I forgot about that 10 reservation limit

and if my wife reserved a room at La belle Maison for Mardi Gras, and I reserved a room at Avenue Plaza we could reserve 9 more rooms at each resort for guests...does that sound possible

I only ask because I got a call from Wyndham recently, inviting me to an internet presentation, to explain all the new stuff to me. When I asked if this would end with a sales presentation she said, yes, as usual there would be an offer. I reminded her that I was on a do not sell list and wondered if that had changed.. She was convinced that if she couldnt sell to me , I wouldnt have ended up on her call list... So maybe Wyndham will let me own again

I think it may be time to have some fun.... Thats what timeshares are for...right??

I’m hoping the folks they have auditing all the hybrid VIP owner accounts are different than the ones putting together the call lists, then….

 

[rickandcindy23]

That ad was taken down from Craig's List.

Interesting that a person could travel all over the country and still rent to guests while there and be in the clear from Wyndham's rules, but Wyndham makes rules and then changes them. I would think just 3-4 groups at the same time you are there would maybe stay under the radar.

We have a stay at Bonnet Creek in January. We could easily drive to Vegas or anywhere else within 1,200 miles of home to stay while our guests were there and we could enjoy the resort and have our own car and not even pay for airfare and car rental (which has gotten ridiculously expensive, by the way).

 

[scootr5]

Got it, I forgot about that 10 reservation limit

and if my wife reserved a room at La belle Maison for Mardi Gras, and I reserved a room at Avenue Plaza we could reserve 9 more rooms at each resort for guests...does that sound possible

Actually, for some reason Avenue Plaza is not restricted for Mardis Gras -only La Belle is. Go figure, as the parades pass right in front of AVP.

 

[ronparise]

Actually, for some reason Avenue Plaza is not restricted for Mardis Gras -only La Belle is. Go figure, as the parades pass right in front of AVP.

Can you post a copy of the guest restricted times and places so an interested non owner can see what you guys are talking about. or PM me one
'cause Im confused again...still

Do I have this right? most of the time an owner can reserve 10 rooms at a resort and put a guest in each one... but at the restricted times and places there are no guests permitted, unless the owner is on site, and then guests are permitted (up to the 10 room limit)


There used to be exceptions to the club rules for reservations made at your home resort during ARP, The difference was you own the property. Reservations made at other resorts are exchanges

Are their exceptions to the 10 room limit or the guest restrictions at your home resort during ARP?

 

[scootr5]

Can you post a copy of the guest restricted times and places so an interested non owner can see what you guys are talking about. or PM me one
'cause Im confused again...still

Do I have this right? most of the time an owner can reserve 10 rooms at a resort and put a guest in each one... but at the restricted times and places there are no guests permitted, unless the owner is on site, and then guests are permitted (up to the 10 room limit)

You can see the list without being logged in.

You can also have a guest without the owner being on site, provided they are using one of their two included guest certificates per year (no paid GCs).

 

[HitchHiker71]

Can you post a copy of the guest restricted times and places so an interested non owner can see what you guys are talking about. or PM me one
'cause Im confused again...still

It's listed right on the 1st page of this thread - here it is again as requested:

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Do I have this right? most of the time an owner can reserve 10 rooms at a resort and put a guest in each one... but at the restricted times and places there are no guests permitted, unless the owner is on site, and then guests are permitted (up to the 10 room limit)

There used to be exceptions to the club rules for reservations made at your home resort during ARP, The difference was you own the property. Reservations made at other resorts are exchanges

Are their exceptions to the 10 room limit or the guest restrictions at your home resort during ARP?

Just be aware that there are now failsafes built into the system - meaning that the back office system now flags all suspicious outlier activity for GC usage - and then this process results in an account review - and a corresponding cease and desist letter being dispatched to the owner upon review - along with flagged automatic reservation cancellations due to the violation of the commercial use clauses. This back office process runs regardless of the resort location - it's a logic based behavioral analysis of the offending account in other words. Several of the MRs on here have already received these letters (though they likely won't admit to receiving them publicly - but they might PM you directly to share such information). The system will no longer permit the offending commercial use behaviors any longer in other words.

 

[ronparise]

It's listed right on the 1st page of this thread - here it is again as requested:

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Just be aware that there are now failsafes built into the system - meaning that the back office system now flags all suspicious outlier activity for GC usage - and then this process results in an account review - and a corresponding cease and desist letter being dispatched to the owner upon review - along with flagged automatic reservation cancellations due to the violation of the commercial use clauses. This back office process runs regardless of the resort location - it's a logic based behavioral analysis of the offending account in other words. Several of the MRs on here have already received these letters (though they likely won't admit to receiving them publicly - but they might PM you directly to share such information). The system will no longer permit the offending commercial use behaviors any longer in other words.

thanks, I missed that


I understand a violation will result in cancellation, My question goes to what is a violation. Specifically if I have a room reserved for me, do the restrictions apply? ie can I have 9 guest reservations if im staying at the property too

 

[bnoble]

Ron, I think there are two senses of “violation”. First: the (publicly known) restricted resorts list. Second: the (not publicly known) operating definition of “commercial use” that Wyndham is using to generation C&D letters. You can avoid the first one easily. Avoiding the second one will be a roll of the dice.

 

[dgalati]

It's listed right on the 1st page of this thread - here it is again as requested:

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Just be aware that there are now failsafes built into the system - meaning that the back office system now flags all suspicious outlier activity for GC usage - and then this process results in an account review - and a corresponding cease and desist letter being dispatched to the owner upon review - along with flagged automatic reservation cancellations due to the violation of the commercial use clauses. This back office process runs regardless of the resort location - it's a logic based behavioral analysis of the offending account in other words. Several of the MRs on here have already received these letters (though they likely won't admit to receiving them publicly - but they might PM you directly to share such information). The system will no longer permit the offending commercial use behaviors any longer in other words.

More Availability. Just For Owners.
IMHO these new policies are a good thing for owners looking to book for personal use.

 

[55plus]

More Availability. Just For Owners.
IMHO these new policies are a good thing for owners looking to book for personal use.

Now you sound like me. Have you been day drinking or are you on something?

 

[dgalati]

Now you sound like me. Have you been day drinking or are you on something?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere. I have always promoted creating availability for owners use. Remember I am the guy that rented cheaper then owning. I beat this drum for the last 4 years. I know the system and griped about the abuse but I was able to travel for less compared to owning. Finally the pendulum is swinging back to the owners favor. I still laugh at your reply to the thread on privilege's.

 

[Eric B]

Now you sound like me. Have you been day drinking or are you on something?

Now why would you assume that about someone that sounds like you…?

 

[VacayKat]

It's listed right on the 1st page of this thread - here it is again as requested:

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Just be aware that there are now failsafes built into the system - meaning that the back office system now flags all suspicious outlier activity for GC usage - and then this process results in an account review - and a corresponding cease and desist letter being dispatched to the owner upon review - along with flagged automatic reservation cancellations due to the violation of the commercial use clauses. This back office process runs regardless of the resort location - it's a logic based behavioral analysis of the offending account in other words. Several of the MRs on here have already received these letters (though they likely won't admit to receiving them publicly - but they might PM you directly to share such information). The system will no longer permit the offending commercial use behaviors any longer in other words.

So here is a dumb question: If I reserve for a friend a stay every month and use 12 GC but never go with them and don’t receive compensation because I’m using up my shitload of excess points and somehow use up the rest of my 45 free GC as well for that use year - how does the system see this? Is it only unique GC that get flagged or is it # or is there some other fancy proprietary algorithm at work?

 

[scootr5]

They specify "may use two guest confirmations during the restricted dates when not travelling with your guests." Your first two would be OK, any beyond that should be cancelled.

 

[VacayKat]

They specify "may use two guest confirmations during the restricted dates when not travelling with your guests." Your first two would be OK, then next 10 would be cancelled.

I said nothing about using them during restricted times or places. WAY too many places that could be used that are not restricted for that to be part of the equation. I am asking from a back-end algorithm question. As in- what would the system say about this?

 

[HitchHiker71]

So here is a dumb question: If I reserve for a friend a stay every month and use 12 GC but never go with them and don’t receive compensation because I’m using up my shitload of excess points and somehow use up the rest of my 45 free GC as well for that use year - how does the system see this? Is it only unique GC that get flagged or is it # or is there some other fancy proprietary algorithm at work?

As discussed as nauseam on other threads - Wyndham will likely never disclose the back end logic for outlier cases and any related thresholds. Just like they won’t share the logic used for automatic room upgrades as another example.

That said, I would surmise that using up complimentary GCs will not result in any flagging of any account. Those GCs are after all, entitlements for your VIP account. I would surmise that, again as discussed ad nauseam, it is VIP accounts purchasing GCs beyond some higher threshold over a period of time sufficient to establish a pattern of behavior that are being flagged and that have received cease and desist letters as appropriate.

Since the intent of a commercial use account is very different than the intent of a personal use account - it not difficult to identity the behavioral patterns unique to each type and then figure out which data points to evaluate with the logic engine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

thanks, I missed that


I understand a violation will result in cancellation, My question goes to what is a violation. Specifically if I have a room reserved for me, do the restrictions apply? ie can I have 9 guest reservations if im staying at the property too

Wyndham will never disclose the logic used to make this determination - as doing so would clearly define the boundary - which would be a very bad business decision on their part to say the least - given we are dealing with an extremely small subset of owners impacted - whereas the majority of the owner base could care less about this entire issue. Businesses should manage and maintain transparency based upon the needs of the majority of the owner base - not the exceptions as is clearly the case in this instance.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[VacayKat]

As discussed as nauseam on other threads - Wyndham will likely never disclose the back end logic for outlier cases and any related thresholds. Just like they won’t share the logic used for automatic room upgrades as another example.

That said, I would surmise that using up complimentary GCs will not result in any flagging of any account. Those GCs are after all, entitlements for your VIP account. I would surmise that, again as discussed ad nauseam, it is VIP accounts purchasing GCs beyond some higher threshold over a period of time sufficient to establish a pattern of behavior that are being flagged and that have received cease and desist letters as appropriate.

Since the intent of a commercial use account is very different than the intent of a personal use account - it not difficult to identity the behavioral patterns unique to each type and then figure out which data points to evaluate with the logic engine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok so I guess what I’m going to presume is that if I stay below my granted GC but don’t use one of the reservations for myself during an odd year due to life stuff, but in general have a healthy balance of using personally vs GC then Wyndham will default to not freaking out. I try to avoid making folks freak out, because it usually comes back to bite me.

 

[Cyrus24]

As discussed as nauseam on other threads - Wyndham will likely never disclose the back end logic for outlier cases and any related thresholds. Just like they won’t share the logic used for automatic room upgrades as another example.

That said, I would surmise that using up complimentary GCs will not result in any flagging of any account. Those GCs are after all, entitlements for your VIP account. I would surmise that, again as discussed ad nauseam, it is VIP accounts purchasing GCs beyond some higher threshold over a period of time sufficient to establish a pattern of behavior that are being flagged and that have received cease and desist letters as appropriate.

Since the intent of a commercial use account is very different than the intent of a personal use account - it not difficult to identity the behavioral patterns unique to each type and then figure out which data points to evaluate with the logic engine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I truly do appreciate your opinion, but, it's just that, opinion. I know you don't like to hear Us vs. Wyndham but, Wyndham is the bad actor here, not the owners who have long used there account as they saw fit, within the bounds of Wyndhams' allowances. I'm OK with the changes to resale, myself and others just want to know what the new rules are as it relates to the line over who will or will not get these dreadful C&D notes.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Ok so I guess what I’m going to presume is that if I stay below my granted GC but don’t use one of the reservations for myself during an odd year due to life stuff, but in general have a healthy balance of using personally vs GC then Wyndham will default to not freaking out. I try to avoid making folks freak out, because it usually comes back to bite me.

Long story short - if you are using your account for personal use - the usage pattern likely won’t trigger any flags. The usage patterns for a commercial use account vs a personal use account are sufficiently disparate that the logic used to identify the behaviors for commercial use accounts should not flag personal use accounts - and even if it does - the review process should catch the exceptions and deal with them accordingly.


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[VacayKat]

Long story short - if you are using your account for personal use - the usage pattern likely won’t trigger any flags. The usage patterns for a commercial use account vs a personal use account are sufficiently disparate that the logic used to identify the behaviors for commercial use accounts should not flag personal use accounts - and even if it does - the review process should catch the exceptions and deal with them accordingly.


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And one would hope there would be an appeals process. And a wyndham apology if they mistakenly target someone. (I’m just full of hope today, lol)
I think that is part of what frustrates me. I get why they won’t reveal their reasoning, but they should at minimum reveal their process. Regular owners who get caught up in this madness need to know how it gets resolved. Identification is just the first step.
So if I were Wyndham I'd set up the following and tell owners about it - even if it is just in the directory:
1. Identification and letter sent with required steps the owner needs to take. And an outline of what the owner must present to rebut the accusation.
2. Rebuttal from owner or nonrebuttal (essentially an acceptance they will take the steps, without accepting the charge made by wyndham)
3. Review of the rebuttal by wyndham
4. Personal meeting (virtually) between wyndham and owner if disagreement continues.
5. Mediation if required
6. Arbitration if no agreement has been met
7. Legal proceedings if needed.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I truly do appreciate your opinion, but, it's just that, opinion. I know you don't like to hear Us vs. Wyndham but, Wyndham is the bad actor here, not the owners who have long used there account as they saw fit, within the bounds of Wyndhams' allowances. I'm OK with the changes to resale, myself and others just want to know what the new rules are as it relates to the line over who will or will not get these dreadful C&D notes.

That's nice that you have that expectation - but be prepared to live with disappointment. Both Wyndham AND the MRs are the bad actors here. I've always said this - both Wyndham and the rulebreakers have culpability. I sure hope everyone can see that point as valid. If you are using your account for personal use - then you have nothing to worry about. So the question that begs to be asked here then is: are you using your account for anything other than personal use? If you are, I'd be concerned.

Now let's take a step back and look at management by majority customer base. Does this change impact the majority of the ownership base? No it does not. Good businesses focus on issues that impact the majority of their customer base and practice transparency for the majority of their customer base - we are talking about a small subset of 4000 owners - likely a tenth of one percent of the ownership base - that cares about this issue in any capacity. Even given those facts - Wyndham still proactively communicated the upcoming changes to this extremely small subset of the ownership base. They are being transparent about the upcoming changes to the extent that is feasible. Tell me how it makes sense that Wyndham should tell anyone in this extremely small minority that are using their accounts for commercial use exactly how the logic works. Does Microsoft expose any substantive information as to how their systems work within the black box of Azure or Office 365? No they do not - and that's by design - because no customer is entitled to that intellectual property, even under NDA. We as Wyndham customers are also not entitled to their intellectual property with respect to the logic of how their systems function either. Honestly, why would ANY business spend time and effort attempting to appease an extremely small subset of their ownership that is likely already violating their terms of use? I don't know about you - but the logic right there makes zero sense to me.