Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[kedler]

I get that as well but being that the closing process takes 60 days or so what will they be doing with all the weeks purchased in the last 2 months? Have these people bought into the points program? i would say "NO". Therefore, I am confused about "closed".

Legally (I'm an attorney), the term "closed" in the world of deeded real estate means that the money has changed hands and the deed to the property has been signed and given to the new owner for recording. In some states the deed does not need to be recorded to transfer ownership rights - record its simply considered a "ministerial act"; however, there are states that do not consider ownership to have passed until the deed is actually recorded.

I did not see any specific definition of "closed" in the disclosure guide but I've spent the day with family for Father's Day not wading through the documents. If I find a definition at some point I will post it.

 

[SueDonJ]

I wonder how similiar this is to the Disney points system. Any thoughts?

We've been happy with DVC...have been happy with our Marriott resales too - not sure about the changes though.

A big difference between this and DVC is that DVC was never a weeks-based system while Marriott is now converting from weeks-based to points, and is offering a way for the existing Weeks owners to join the Points system which will be in effect for all sales going forward. The usage charts look remarkably similar to DVC's in the daily/weekend/weekly breakdown, and for future Marriott-direct purchasers they will be invaluable to review in order to determine the approximate number of points they'll want to purchase to get their desired usage.

Somewhere in all those links I thought I saw something (but can't find it) about point re-allocations across the usage charts being subject to a 10% annual maximum. That stipulation is similar to DVC, except I think DVC has a lower percentage.

It appears that some of the more involved legal mumbo-jumbo provides for Marriott protections in a similar fashion to DVC protections, but I don't have DVC contracts to compare.

The biggest difference IMO is that DVC contracts have an expiration date - ownership actually ceases on a certain day - and it appears that Marriott's conversion and future Point contracts do not.

DVC points are home-resort based, and m/f are determined per resort/per point owned. Existing Marriott weeks converted to points will keep the home resort and m/f base as is, it appears future Marriott point purchases will not have a home resort base for use or m/f.

DVC reservation windows open at 11 months for home resort usage and 7 months for other resorts. Marriott will now have 13- and 12-month reservation windows with the advantages given to high-points owners and multi-week owners.

I'm not sure how or when exchanges can be made with DVC, except that RCI is the current external exchange option for DVC and it's through a corporate account rather than the traditional member accounts Marriott owners currently have with II. Not sure if Marriott Points-based owners will exchange the same way in II, but the rep this morning told me if we enroll in Points we will be given a new II member number.

I'm sure others can add or make corrections to this ....

 

[wuv pooh]

If no owners have enough points to reserve prime weeks in their season then every time someone deposits their home week with Marriott and uses points to exchange for another marriott resort, they will not get enough points to get what they are entitled to at their home resort, and that is the CHANCE to reserve a prime in season week!

If your platinum weeks float week 18 to 38, and weeks 18 to 21 cost 5000 points, weeks 22 to 32 cost 6000 points, and weeks 33 to 38 cost 5000 points, and if as is the case in almost all resorts under the new program every platinum owner is assigned 5300 annual points (a supposed average), then NO PLATINUM OWNERS will ever be able to exchange for a 5500 or 6000 point week at any resort other than their home resort. So 10 platinum in season weeks are worth 6000 points, but not a single owner at that resort gets 6000 points to exchange for another resort. Some inventory will be deposited by owners, Marriott will assign some of the deposits the prime weeks 22 to 32, some exchangers will pay 6000 points to stay there for a week, but not one single points member will get 6000 points. That is the ripoff. You have the rights to reserve a week worth 6000 points at your home resort based on availability, but Marriott will never give you 6000 points for reliquishing your rights to that week so you can exchange for another comaparable week/resort.

But how does Marriott benefit from that? What you are describing is the same thing as today. People that exchange Hawaii for Orlando are getting ripped off. They are getting ripped off by other owners though, not Marriott. In your example, you are getting ripped off by other owners who are getting a benefit.

How does Marriott cash in the benefit?

 

[hipslo]

How does Marriott cash in the benefit?

They try to sell you more points so that under the new system you can more "conveniently/flexibly" do what you can already do now.

 

[JimIg23]

NCV platinum owners get 3475 points in the conversion. It costs 4725 for a summer week! That is almost a 1300 point spread... I wonder why NCV is so far off than some of the others I have read?

 

[hipslo]

NCV platinum owners get 3475 points in the conversion. It costs 4725 for a summer week! That is almost a 1300 point spread... I wonder why NCV is so far off than some of the others I have read?

It seems to me that the more artificially extended the existing season is, the greater the disparity between the points award and the cost to reserve the best weeks in the season, which I suppose should not be all that surprising.

 

[timeos2]

The value, or lack, was always there but hidden by the process

This is not a FAIR SHAKE! I can NEVER get a prime week at any comparable resort again using points. I can now only get prime weeks at my home resort, at every comparably rated resort using Marriott's own points assignments I will be short on the points needed to get a prime week. Plus now I will be competing with owners at my home resort and with every points owner with enough points for the prime weeks in season at my home resort.

If the prime weeks at my resort which I am entitled to by owning in season are worth 6000 points (weeks which I got most years at my resort or another), and the worst weeks in my season are worth 5000 points (weeks I never got stuck with because I planned ahead), and they only give me 5300 points annually, I can NEVER use points for a comparable prime week at any resort other than my home resort. Is Marriott giving me or any other Platinum owner 6000 points one year, 5500 points the next, and 5000 points the third? Nope, they are giving you a lower than middle of the road average number of points every year. That means you NEVER get the points that you deserve for the prime week you can snag at your home resort. No points member will get the amount of points it takes to reserve prime weeks in their season, but marriott will get the maximum number of points they can charge for prime weeks for anyone that trades into your resort. If some pay 6000 points for a platinum week on exchange, some platinum owners should receive 6000 points for depositing their week. Marriott will always charge the 6000 points for a prime week,however they will not give any owners the 6000 points they receive for the week the owners put into the points pool.

RIPOFF for owners, Points bonanza for Marriott!

Roll over two or three years of the extra above the base 5000 - the extra those few weeks with higher value translate to in points & you have the 6000=/- you need for at least one year of an upgrade. Under the covers it was all you ever actually owned but the old system only allowed for 7 day to 7 day - the excess (or loss) got passed to the other side of the trade. Now it is open & you have to arrange to meet the level you want by amassing enough points. It isn't the same as before but it is at least as fair as before in a different way.

You can still use II if they have inventory or look to week to week traders like SFX. The door isn't closed but the options have been changed significantly.

 

[Dave M]

There is nothing in any of the new materials (that I have seen, anyway) concerning how much inventory is or isnt released for points reservations at 13 months. Not sure how we'd find out the answer to this one.

No, but there is in the legal documents for most resorts. And the new points program can't override those documents. Examples:

Grand Chateau: "... no more than fifty perrcent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance...."

Custom House: "... no more than fifty percent (50%) of the availavle Time-Share Plan inventory can be reserved ..." [using the 13-month reservation advantage].

 

[SueDonJ]

True. So, competition for home resort, in season prime weeks gets tougher, and the ability to exchange into comprable resorts/ seasons for a full week will now cost more $$ (points) than under the current system.

What is it exactly about the new system that you see as a benefit?

This is what I posted this morning, just thinking out loud, but I'm nowhere near convinced yet. It's so difficult to pick out the truth from the speculation, even now, and it's impossible for me until whatever computer glitch I'm working with is fixed. Plus there were later posts from wsrobinson and dean that talked about possible inconsistencies with my resort's (SurfWatch) point charts - that needs to be resolved.

 

[timeos2]

Shouldn't effect you

Well I currently have a resale Platinum at Desert Springs and am in the process of buying another resale. Of course, I see the second resale will be excluded from consideration. That's ok since I just really want to spend time in Palm Desert.

I am attempting to keep up with the posts but thought I better get my questions out there for feedback. It appears I will continue to be able to make home resort reservations during the same 1-21 & 50-52 weeks as before. Correct? Also, will I still be able to lock-off the two units for a 4 week stay? With the purchase that I'm currently in the midst of, will I be able to count this as my second Desert Springs timeshare that provides me with the 13-month reservation window? Or is that only now available only to those with points?

I'm not liking this change and won't even consider going after points.

Nothing should change for you if you intend to use what you bought at the resort. You really don't need to be concerned with points.

 

[RandR]

Here's another question. A resort has Friday, Saturday and Sunday check in.....now a points person comes in and since he isn't restricted to the check in days, takes Wednesday - Monday. Didn't he just screw up 2 weeks for a weeks owner?

 

[Dave M]

We live in NY, and own at Grand Chateau. When we did an exploratory foray into "Enroll Now", we were told our 2 BR lockoff was worth 3275 points, and the enrollment fee was $595 - and that we would get 800 bonus points. Clearly, they know we live in NY - they referenced our deed, etc. So how are we shut out of the new program, if we wish to partake?

It appears that you are not shut out. See billymach4's post #558.

 

[wuv pooh]

They try to sell you more points so that under the new system you can more "conveniently/flexibly" do what you can already do now.

Ok. I see that now. Under a points system like DVC the number of points sold always has to equal the number of points to reserve through the year. The total points is the same but the distribution can change.

What people are saying under the overlay system the number of points sold does not equal the number of points to reserve through the year. It takes more points to reserve the year than points obtained if everyone converted.

If that is the case then I would call that a rip off. Or maybe a bad deal. You are exchanging for flexibility and access to the new resorts, but you are not seeing the true cost. It is the fee plus the total devaluation.

I guess the only way to tell is to multiply out the current calendar by the points offered vs. the points to exchange for each resort. I wonder if anyone has access to all the info? We can do the exchange piece, but would need input from other week owners that have other seasons at the resorts.

 

[hipslo]

No, but there is in the legal documents for most resorts. And the new points program can't override those documents. Examples:

Grand Chateau: "... no more than fifty perrcent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance...."

Custom House: "... no more than fifty percent (50%) of the availavle Time-Share Plan inventory can be reserved ..." [using the 13-month reservation advantage].

Thats true, thanks Dave.

Do you have any info, or a view, as to whether ALL of the 13 month inventory for a given "prime" week could be taken by points owners, in theory at least, so long as at least that number of units in the season at issue have enrolled in points? (ie - whether or not inventory would have to be allocated pro rata among all weeks in a season)?

 

[Dave M]

I was told, over the phone today, that the inventories would not be separate, and that it would be first come/ first serve as between weeks and points, although there would be a limit on the aggregate number of weeks available to points owners, so that all weeks owners would still have weeks available to them. But there is nothing to prevent a disproportionate number of "prime" weeks from going to points owners. This could happen if there are lots of premiere or premiere plus points owners trying to reserve the prime weeks at any given resort. Their sheer numbers could overwhelm the weeks owners seeking the same reservations.

Although not a perfect solution, there is still the 50% limit on reservations more than 12 months in advance. See my post #583.

 

[hipslo]

Here's another question. A resort has Friday, Saturday and Sunday check in.....now a points person comes in and since he isn't restricted to the check in days, takes Wednesday - Monday. Didn't he just screw up 2 weeks for a weeks owner?

he sure did.

 

[winger]

.... Now with many resorts/seasons costing over 6000 points it will take you 3 years to accumulate enough points to trade for what you could have traded week for week in the past, and that is if they will even let you carry points over for 3 years. ....

Points can only be carried over 1 year, max, according to something I read in the docs.

 

[Dave M]

Thats true, thanks Dave.

Do you have any info, or a view, as to whether ALL of the 13 month inventory for a given "prime" week could be taken by points owners, in theory at least, so long as at least that number of units in the season at issue have enrolled in points? (ie - whether or not inventory would have to be allocated pro rata among all weeks in a season)?

No more than 50% of any week can be taken more than 12 months in advance. Thus, if there are 150 units at a certain resort, no more than 75 of those units for (as an example) week 47 can be reserved more than 12 months in advance. The remainder will be available at 12 months, although points owners might be clamoring for those weeks at 12 months, too! (Note the "for each Use Period" language in my text that you quoted.)

 

[hipslo]

Although not a perfect solution, there is still the 50% limit on reservations more than 12 months in advance. See my post #583.

Right, but wouldnt this have a major adverse impact upon the ability of a multiple week owner to reserve a high demand week at 13 months? And wouldnt all of the increased competition at 12 months from points owners have the same effect on the ability of single week owners to reserve high demand weeks at 12 months out? It would seem so, unless there is a pro rata allocation of inventory between points and weeks on a per week basis.

 

[SueDonJ]

Dave, it's probably difficult for you to keep changing your hats from being one of the few who had some inside information to think about, and one in the giant pool with the rest of us just trying to figure out how this will work with what you own and how you use it. But ... what's your first impression at roll-out?

 

[tombo]

But how does Marriott benefit from that? What you are describing is the same thing as today. People that exchange Hawaii for Orlando are getting ripped off. They are getting ripped off by other owners though, not Marriott. In your example, you are getting ripped off by other owners who are getting a benefit.

How does Marriott cash in the benefit?

If for example a Platinum Ocean Watch owner gets 5300 annual points, and a platinum NCV owner gets 5300 annual points, you should be able to deposit your platinum ocean watch week, take your 5300 points and based on availability be able to reserve a prime platinum NCV week.

This is not how marriott is doing it. Using these hypothetical points levels for an example, Platinum owners only get 5300 annual points at both resorts for depositing their weeks, but prime weeks at both resorts cost 6000 points. So you have the right to reserve a 6000 point week at your home resort, but you don't get enough points to reserve it elsewhere. Marriott charges someone 6000 points to reserve a prime platinum week you could have reserved, but they only give you 5300 points keeping 700 points. You get 5300, the exchanger pays 6000 points for the week you reliquished, Marriott profits 700 points in the exchange.

Under the new points system you have to buy more points or borrow future points to get a comparable 6000 point prime week trade to what you gave up. You know that you have the right to reserve a 6000 point week at your home resort, yet you can't get that many points from Marriott when you deposit your week. Where is Marriott getting the 6000 point weeks from? From owners who deposit the weeks with II or within the internal points program. Marriott never gives 6000 points for the deposited week, but they have no problem charging 6000 points to get it. How can you not see how marriott is charging more points for weeks than they are giving?

 

[DanaTom]

No, but there is in the legal documents for most resorts. And the new points program can't override those documents. Examples:

Grand Chateau: "... no more than fifty perrcent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance...."

Custom House: "... no more than fifty percent (50%) of the availavle Time-Share Plan inventory can be reserved ..." [using the 13-month reservation advantage].

Here is info from their docs...
A. Priority 1 Period. During the Priority 1 Period, Premier and Premier Plus Owners, and other Members reserving through an Advance Priority Reservation, have the right to request a reservation, subject to the Call-in Calendar, on a first-come, first-served subject to availability basis for the use of Use Periods in Accommodations available through the Program and other Special Benefits made available by Exchange Company from time to time during the Use Year for which Premier and Premier Plus Owners hold sufficient Exchange Points, in accordance with these Exchange Procedures. The number of Exchange Points which must be released by the Member for such Premier Reservations and Advance Priority Reservations shall be determined in accordance with the then-current Exchange Point Schedule. During the Priority 1 Period, Exchange Company shall immediately confirm all Premier Reservations and Advance Priority Reservations made pursuant to these Exchange Procedures, if available, on a first-come, first-served basis. Any Exchange Points required to obtain an Advance Priority Reservation (over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period) will not be restored to the Member in the event that the Advance Priority Reservation is cancelled by the Member. Notwithstanding any rights granted to Members pursuant to this Section A., Exchange Company reserves the right to limit or restrict the number of reservations that may be made (including, without limitation, the number of Members who may make reservations and the number of reservations that may be made) at any particular Component during the Priority 1 Period to further the best interests of the Members as a whole as determined by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion. Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, Use Periods reserved by Standard Owners and Premier Owners during the Priority 1 Period must have a minimum of seven (7) consecutive evenings, and all reservations are subject to applicable minimum durations of stay for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule. In the event a Standard Owner or Premier Owner requests a Use Period during the Priority 1 Period and Exchange Company is only able to confirm a portion of such requested Use Period because less than seven (7) consecutive evenings are
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available, Exchange Company may, upon Member’s request, confirm such reservation in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion. Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum duration of stays for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods reserved by Premier Plus Owners during the Priority 1 Period. Exchange Company may limit the Use Periods and the Accommodations on a Component-by-Component basis that are available for reservation during the Priority 1 Period, and may withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component for reservation during other Reservation Windows, all as determined from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion. Priority 1 Reservations are available only to those Members who are entitled to Base Plus Exchange Benefits.



I note the word "may withhold up to fifty percent.... I hate that word "may"...not an absolute and looks to be at their control

 

[Dave M]

Dana Tom - That language still doesn't override the legal restrictions in individual resort documents. Further, that language appears to relate to the points weeks available to reserve at 13 months, which cannot invade the 50% of weeks that must be available at 12 months according to most resort docs (unless changes are made to those docs).

 

[Serina]

Does anyone know the point value of platinum Grande Ocean and gold Newport Coast? Thanks in advance - I'm having computer glitches on the website.

 

[RandR]

Roll over two or three years of the extra above the base 5000 - the extra those few weeks with higher value translate to in points & you have the 6000=/- you need for at least one year of an upgrade. Under the covers it was all you ever actually owned but the old system only allowed for 7 day to 7 day - the excess (or loss) got passed to the other side of the trade. Now it is open & you have to arrange to meet the level you want by amassing enough points. It isn't the same as before but it is at least as fair as before in a different way.

You can still use II if they have inventory or look to week to week traders like SFX. The door isn't closed but the options have been changed significantly.

But from what I have seen someone say, you can only roll points for one year so you can't save from several years.