Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[DanaTom]

Dana Tom - That language still doesn't override the legal restrictions in individual resort documents. Further, that language appears to relate to the points weeks available to reserve at 13 months, which cannot invade the 50% of weeks that must be available at 12 months according to most resort docs (unless changes are made to those docs).

I was hoping that is the correct answer... thanks for the clarification. Obviously, documents can be in conflict. Maybe new resorts open going forward will not have the 50% limitation in them..??

 

[RandR]

Nothing should change for you if you intend to use what you bought at the resort. You really don't need to be concerned with points.

Except for the fact that it may now be harder to get the prime weeks in your season.

 

[SMB1]

Wow! This thread grew HUGE this afternoon! A couple things ...

I'm still not able to access the info for how many points our weeks are worth through the "Enroll Now" button so I'll be trying and trying and trying and trying ... until Owner Services opens tomorrow and maybe another rep will verify what was told to me this morning OR give me different point values. Thanks, wsrobinson, for your SurfWatch figures - they give me something concrete to compare.

It seems there is a whole lot of confusion between the points being allotted to ownerships and the points usage charts that Davidvel put into PDF form for us. Does everyone who is questioning the different point values for weeks within the season, realize that even in the points system it will still be possible to book any week (subject to availability, of course) within the season? Those points usage charts are only for exchanges into the resort, not owners booking their owned weeks. I know it's been said here by others so I'm wondering why some folks are still thinking that they won't be able to book the same weeks because point values are different per week.

Can we please put a lid on the comments about owners who might join this new system being "crazy" or "stupid" or "ripped-off?" At least for a week maybe while we all figure it out? I know, I know, this thing won't work for everyone. But it will definitely work for some, and it's very aggravating to see that the old TUG mentality of insulting folks who might find value in a Marriott-direct product is already here in this thread not even twenty-four hours after rollout. I'm worried that with so many TUGgers not in favor of the points system, TUG is going to be a place that won't feel very hospitable to the few of us who might be able to make points work. Quite honestly, without TUG I wouldn't have nearly the level of knowledge it takes to make Marriott timeshares work to their best advantage, and I'd hate to be made to feel that I'm no longer welcome here if I choose points. Thanks for at least considering someone else's opinion.

Try a different web browser. I couldn't get on with safari, but I did get on with firefox.

 

[m61376]

While I suppose this won't matter if weeks and points inventory are truly kept separate (unless allocation of reservations between the two pools is purely "first come first serve" as between points and weeks), but I have been playing around with a new calendar on the mvci website that tells you the first date on which you can call in to reserve under points if you qualify as premiere or premiere plus, at 13 months in advance, and, lo and behold, points owners get a couple of days jump on weeks owners in terms of the first date to call in.

Where is the link for that?
Another related question- for those that convert but are booking at their home resort, can they book their week at 13 months if they qualify for premiere status, or is the 13 months window only if booking using points?

 

[timeos2]

Owners got the points - ALL owners

Under the new points system you have to buy more points or borrow future points to get a comparable 6000 point prime week trade to what you gave up. You know that you have the right to reserve a 6000 point week at your home resort, yet you can't get that many points from Marriott when you deposit your week. Where is Marriott getting the 6000 point weeks from? From owners who deposit the weeks with II or within the internal points program. Marriott never gives 6000 points for the deposited week, but they have no problem charging 6000 points to get it. How can you not see how marriott is charging more points for weeks than they are giving?

They ARE giving out ALL the points they are requiring. But they are spread over ALL owners in that season/group. There is no skimming or non-existent points being asked for. To say they aren't assigning as many points to those periods as they are asking for is an absolutely incorrect statement. It makes it sound somehow underhanded or a value grab when that just isn't the case.

 

[DanCali]

I believe (though I am not certain) that this is only the case at 13 months, not 12, and yes, that is exactly my concern.

It is on the mvci website, after you log in, under "how to reserve". There is a chart that mentions that inventory is released on tuesday, and there is also a sample calendar that tells you the date on which inventory can first be reserved under points under various scenarios.

Not sure if you also saw my other post below (I leave for a coupel of hours and have 150 posts to read). If points owners book on Tuesday at 13 months out, that's not necessarily a disadvantage to weeks if your first checkin day is Friday or earlier.

Mixing inventory is a concern. But I don't think points owners get a head start. Typically, if a resort first checkin day is on a Friday, the 13 month window opens on a Tueday.

For example, the window for July 9 (sat), 2011 opened on June 8, 2010 (assuming the first checin day is a Friday). June 8, 2010 is a Tuesday. When the next year is a leap year (i.e. reservations for 2012 made in 2011), weeks owners would actually call in on a Monday at the 13 months window.

For the 12 months window, weeks owners typically call in on a Thursday (if the first checkin day is a Friday), so they actually get a head start.

Either way, mixing inventory and creating a free for all doesn't help.

 

[timeos2]

It can be done

But from what I have seen someone say, you can only roll points for one year so you can't save from several years.

You can roll an ever increasing amount from year to year and not bump into the one year restriction. Or simply plan to use lower value weeks/smaller units one year so you'll have 1000 or so "leftover" to roll to the next year. Then you have the 6000 needed. It works very well with a little planning.

 

[jimf41]

It's getting late and I'm getting tired of reading so I stopped about halfway through. I'm a little disappointed at some of the info put out so far by so called "tug experts". I'll dispel some of the inaccuracies I've found so far.

1. New yorkers can join. I confirmed this by telephone and by getting through to the enroll site ( thanks for whomever gave the tip about using FireFox) where all my weeks were listed with their accompanying point value. The point values the rep gave were exactly the same as on the website.

2. Frenchman's Cove and St Kitts can join.

3. Points can be banked for longer than one year. I'm not sure how long but longer than your usage year.

4. A lot of folks are saying they can't book what they have because the point value of their week is less than the week requires in the point system. This is true sometimes but not always and I don't think even most of the time. I suspect this will be more prevalent to a one week owner who falls into a shortfall point given vrs point required situation. I added up all my points, 24775. then I added up what is required to book the weeks that I usually book, 25475. 700 point minus but that's if I deposit all my weeks as points. Half of that 700 point deficit comes from depositing my MFC Pres fixed week. I would never do that on a year I want to use it so my real deficit is 350 points. Not good but not the disaster some are alluding to. On 3 of my Ocean point weeks I actually have a point surplus.

5. This one really irks me. Marriott did not give the shaft to their developer purchasers. What they did was to grandfather in at a slightly higher cost all of their loyal owners who purchased resale. I'm glad they finally did that as those resale buyers don't have to walk around the resort with that big red "R" on their foreheads anymore. It was scaring my grandkids. I'm hopeful that will allow something for future resale buyers but at this time that does not appear likely.

I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do. The point allocations both given and required are a benefit to me but what scares me is that might change and I'd be on the losing side instead of the winning side as I am now. It's been an interesting day. Goodnight all.

 

[tombo]

Many were scratching their heads wondering why DVC left II. Perhaps they had advance warning from their previous employee who helped Marriott design the points program that in the near future DVC members wouldn't be able to exchange for Marriott weeks. Without Marriott inventory II is much less attractive to DVC members.

Forget DVC access to Marriott inventory through II, with the upcoming changes even Marriott owners who don't convert to points will have limited access to Marriott inventory through II. Weeks owners exchanging access is being severelly limited because of the new points program, II's access to prime inventory is history, and DVC exchanges are gone to all Marriott owners and/or points members. Without DVC and with limited Marriott access, II might become a historical event.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Except for the fact that it may now be harder to get the prime weeks in your season.

To me I still don't know if we're making more of this than we should be. The above statement is the $64,000 question. Will we still be able to get II exchanges and reservations for prime weeks at our home resorts?

If owners can't then hopefully they won't join either and II will continue to be the vehicle to exchange through. Why would anyone join just to pay extra to get an exchange they get through II.

Unless of course Marriott controls the inventory and you can't get an exchange through II or at 13 or 12 months



I have most my reservations for 2011, so I won't know personally on my big weeks until 1/11, but I do need to reserve my GO golds end of July using the 13 month rule, so I'll see how that goes. I doubt I'll have a problem because I'm not looking for prime weeks so I do't expect that to reveal much to me.

 

[heathpack]

I wonder how similiar this is to the Disney points system. Any thoughts?

We've been happy with DVC...have been happy with our Marriott resales too - not sure about the changes though.

This is very different from DVC in that a given DVC resort will always have a set number of points associated with it. For example, if the points associated with all the units in all the weeks at (say) AKV is 1 million per year, this can NEVER change. DVC can change the points required for a given night or week, but if they make one day or week "cost" more points then some other day or week will "cost" less. The total number of points needed for all owners to book a given resort in a year is always the same. New resorts may have higher points requirements, but your home resort will always have the same total number of points. And the total yearly points allocation for other current DVC resorts is a known, fixed entity. So you can continue to use those resorts with your current owned points and have a pretty good idea of the points you will need.

In this new Marriott system, points are not tied to anything real. Marriott can increase requirements as high as they would like. Your owned week will always get you a week at your home resort. But you have no way of knowing how many points it will take in 10 years to get in to any Marriott property, old or new. You have no way of knowing how many points Marriott will decide to assign to your owned week. There are no rules that govern what Marriott may do in regards to the points system (other than those set by Marriott, of course).

H

 

[Ann in CA]

Does anyone know the point value of platinum Grande Ocean and gold Newport Coast? Thanks in advance - I'm having computer glitches on the website.

Copied and pasted from the website chart...Hard to read, but weeks and weekday points listed by season. EDITED--I think this is actually the chart for exchanging INTO an MVCI resort. I copied it last night in case I couldn't get in today, and the lowest amount for Waiohai is same as our points the enrollment page gives us. But on going back to this page, it appears to be the points required for each season to go to that resort. Sorry...still can't access the other chart.

Grand Ocean
Jan 7 – Jan 27
Dec 2 – Dec 22 Jan 6 – Jan 26Nov 30 – Dec 20
Fri – Sat 225 275
Sun – Thur 75 125
Full Week 825 1,175
Jan 28 – Mar 24
Oct 28 – Dec 1 Jan 27 – Mar 22Oct 26 – Nov 29
Fri – Sat 525 600
Sun – Thur 200 250
Full Week 2,050 2,450
Mar 25 – May 26
Aug 26 – Oct 27 Mar 23 – May 24Aug 24 – Oct 25
Fri – Sat 850 1,000
Sun – Thur 350 400
Full Week 3,450 4,000
May 27 – Aug 25 May 25 – Aug 23
Fri – Sat 1,125 1,325
Sun – Thur 450 550
Full Week 4,500 5,400
Dec 23 – Dec 29 Dec 21 – Dec 27
Fri – Sat 525 600
Sun – Thur 200 250
Full Week 2,050 2,450
Dec 30 – Jan 5† Dec 28 – Jan 3†
Fri – Sat 525 600
Sun – Thur 200 250
Full Week 2,050 2,450

Newport Coast Villas

2011 2012 Day* 2-Bedroom
Jan 7 – Jun 2
Sep 16 – Dec 22 Jan 6 – May 31Sep 14 – Dec 20
Fri – Sat 700
Sun – Thur 300
Full Week 2,900
Jun 3 – Jun 23
Aug 12 – Sep 15 Jun 1 – Jun 21Aug 10 – Sep 13
Fri – Sat 1,050
Sun – Thur 425
Full Week 4,225
Jun 24 – Jun 30
Jul 8 – Aug 11 Jun 22 – Jun 28Jul 6 – Aug 9
Fri – Sat 1,175
Sun – Thur 475
Full Week 4,725
Jul 1 – Jul 7 Jun 29 – Jul 5
Fri – Sat 1,400
Sun – Thur 575
Full Week 5,675
Dec 23 – Dec 29 Dec 21 – Dec 27
Fri – Sat 1,175
Sun – Thur 475
Full Week 4,725
Dec 30 – Jan 5† Dec 28 – Jan 3†
Fri – Sat 1,225
Sun – Thur 500
Full Week 4,950

 

[tombo]

They ARE giving out ALL the points they are requiring. But they are spread over ALL owners in that season/group. There is no skimming or non-existent points being asked for. To say they aren't assigning as many points to those periods as they are asking for is an absolutely incorrect statement. It makes it sound somehow underhanded or a value grab when that just isn't the case.

If they are actually allocating all the points to members (questionable since there are apparently some resorts where owners can't even get enough points to trade for a week in their season at their home resort), but they are allocating the points in a manner where no member has access to points equal to prime in season weeks, whoopee. Yes they might arguably be allocating all points, but they are doing it in a manner which prevents all platinum owners from getting the value of a prime week at any resort other than their home resort.

Let's make this easy and show how Marriott is allocating points per season at some resorts. If Platinum season at a resort has 20 weeks total (18-38), and 10 are worth 6000 points each (23 to 32), and 10 are worth 5000 (18-22 and 33 to 38), that is 110,000 total points for the season. If every platinum season owner gets allocated 5500 points a year (about what Marriott is doing), yes Marriott is giving out 100% of the points for platinum season. What a deal.

Half of the platinum weeks are worth 6000 points, yet not a single owner of a platinum week will receive 6000 points for depositing their week. Marriott will receive 6000 points from exchangers for numerous trades, but they will not give one single owner 6000 points for depositing their week. So none of the the platinum owners can reserve a prime 6000 point comparable week at another resort unless they borrow some points from the future, save some for the past ( not sure how long the new points are good for), or unless they buy more points. Half of the owners have rights to 6000 point weeks each year, but not a single platinum owner will get 6000 points for depositing their week in the RCI points exchange program. In the points program only Marriott gets full value annually for a prime week, never the owners.

 

[Pit]

They ARE giving out ALL the points they are requiring. But they are spread over ALL owners in that season/group. There is no skimming or non-existent points being asked for. To say they aren't assigning as many points to those periods as they are asking for is an absolutely incorrect statement. It makes it sound somehow underhanded or a value grab when that just isn't the case.

That's how it should be; however, there are many posts here (such as the one below) which contradict this view. If owners are receiving 4075 pts, then that ought to be the average "cost" within the season. The average in the case below is somewhere between 4125 and 4650, much higher than 4075.

The lowest amount of points needed to reserve any 2 bdrm, OV week in platinum season at the Aruba Surf & Ocean Clubs is 4,125 points. It goes from 4,125 - 4,650....Platinum Plus weeks are 6,250 - 6,875.

Marriott is only giving us 4,075 points. We do not have enough points to reserve ANY week in our season. Unless I am reading this chart incorrectly?

 

[DanCali]

They are not pocketing it. There are others depositing a 5000 point week and getting 5250 for it. You receive the average for the season, which means Marriott loses on some and makes on others.

Try computing the average of the season before you say this...

Just look at posts from hawaii owners with float 1-50 - they get less than it costs to trade back in. The sam egoes for Plat Plus owners who own a single fixed week. Marriott has turned this into a financial marketplace with a bid-ask spread and Marriott being the marketmaker pocketing the profits.

 

[DanCali]

Tug will have a 90% negative sentiment because we all game the current system, but that day is over starting tomorrow. The average Marriott customer will make the change and test drive it and that will make it work.

I'd say the sentiment in the peculation thread was 50%-50%, probably 70%-30% in favor of Marriott if you exclude Perry's posts...

Now some of Marriott's biggest fans are using word like "turd" in their posts when referring to this program. Many people were optimistic, gave it a chance, and most were let down...

 

[Superchief]

Impact on Location Priorities

I am interested how the villa location priorities will be impacted by this new system. Will home resort owners still receive priority over the 'point' users?

I am currently at Mountainside and plan to attend a meeting with the GM regarding the new system on Tuesday afternoon.

 

[dougp26364]

They ARE giving out ALL the points they are requiring. But they are spread over ALL owners in that season/group. There is no skimming or non-existent points being asked for. To say they aren't assigning as many points to those periods as they are asking for is an absolutely incorrect statement. It makes it sound somehow underhanded or a value grab when that just isn't the case.

seems to me that the largest group of owners on this forum find themselves short of points when it comes time to reserve.

The problem is, unless it's reported here, Marriott does not disclose the total points they are giving out. It's not possible to say that the point totals balance without that bit of information. I think that since all but one owner is reporting a shortage when it comes to points given vs points recieved, the abundance of proof would lead on to believe that Marriott is in fact skimming points.

In the end it doesn't really matter. The vast majority of TUGGERS are smart enough that when they find themselves shorted of the necessary points to reserve any week in their season, it's not a worthwhile program to participate in. Should you feel that it's an equitable program, one in which you perhaps recieve the points required to reserve your desired week at your home resort, then feel free to sign up. Just remember, Marriott has reserved the right to reassign value to the weeks based on demand. That Silver season week could become high enough in demand that it requires platinum level points.

Thanks but no thanks Marriott. We agreed to a specific price, specific unit size, specific view AND specific seasons/weeks we can reserve. I'll hold you to that agreement. I'll also take the stand that since the vast majority of TUGGERS are reporting shortages in points received vs points required, Marriott is taking a little off the top. Until I start seeing TUGGERS report overages then I'll continue to see it as an advantage to Marriott and disadvantage to owners.

Marriott would have been light years ahead if they had just used the KISS principle. All units of same size, view and season were assigned the same number of points. Marriott has convoluted the system in such a way that they've been able to do away with seasons AND allow themselves the luxury of reasigning valuations at a later date based upon demand. You'll never again know with any certainty if you own enough points to reserve the unit you want during the timeframe you want to vacation. It's going to always be a moving target in the new system. But of course you always have the option to buy more points. Get rid of points if/when the levels required to obtain the unit you want well.......that's another story. This is a one way street and Marriott is driving the bus. IMHO, driving it right over the cliff but, it's their bus to drive. I'm just not going to be a passenger.

Of course, we could all pay Marriott's fee's, join the program and sit back and wait until the points Marriott gives us are adaquate or even in excess of what's required for the weeks we want. But wait! Marriott has stated they can reasign the points they give you for your week as well! Maybe we should all join just to see if Marriott increases the points we get for our weeks and lowers the points required for the weeks in our old seasons! I'm sure everyone here will agree that's what's bound to happen in future years. Shell out cash now for a kiss and a promise from Marriott.

 

[DanaTom]

conversion to pts... can it be transferred to new owner?

sorry if someone already commented on this. If I opt in and pay the fee for ability to convert to points, is my timeshare grandfathered if I re-sell it? And, will the same be true for both developer and resale shares?

personally, I assume the MVC trading as we've known it will be changed forever going forward.... but, the points do offer an additional option. For that, we will have to pay a fee to join. If the conversion is transferable through a resale, then there should remain some added value to marketability and sale price obtainable on a going forward basis. Because of this (if it's true) I may give in to Marriott and pay the fee before that option is gone. I guess I have until the end of the year to decide.

 

[bw3]

sorry if someone already commented on this. If I opt in and pay the fee for ability to convert to points, is my timeshare grandfathered if I re-sell it? And, will the same be true for both developer and resale shares?

personally, I assume the MVC trading as we've known it will be changed forever going forward.... but, the points do offer an additional option. For that, we will have to pay a fee to join. If the conversion is transferable through a resale, then there should remain some added value to marketability and sale price obtainable on a going forward basis. Because of this (if it's true) I may give in to Marriott and pay the fee before that option is gone. I guess I have until the end of the year to decide.

Marriott usually charges a 25% commission on resales. If they are selling your converted points, that may work well for you. But they may devalue your points at their discretion at any time. With the way they have changed the rules, would you really trust them?

 

[DanCali]

You do understand that under the new system, as in any points system, the range of weeks covered by a deeded ownership include some that will carry high point values - holidays, summer weeks - and some lower but still in that season as originally outlined. So while your deed has the right to reserve one of the higher point value weeks you cannot and do not get that value every year. Instead they take the TOTAL points generated for all weeks in that season, divide by the total use periods & the resulting average per week is what you receive. So you are getting a fair distribution of point value covering your true share based on the week / season purchased. To further ensure that you get what you have coming they also do not charge you the actual "outside" value for those weeks - even the higher point value ones - if you use your own resort. You get the time for the value of your deeded ownership (and actually don't even have to use points to do that).

Once you step outside your home resort you do need to pay the true rate. You can easily do that by pooling, borrowing, renting or just owning more points than your original deed entitled you to. Now by carefully spreading those points through all the process and all the options it should be possible to get the exact use you want at various resorts and maximize the value of what you own. That is what we have found with other points based exchanges and no reason to think Marriott would work any differently.

You are getting a fair shake. The days of playing the system for free upgrades goes away. A known value system with hopefully better access to desired times (as owners are more careful with what they spend their limited points for rather than grabbing the best and biggest even just to trade) is what a good points system buys you. It does cost more than the old place & hope weeks type trades but is far easier to utilize and understand for most buyers. More like hotel reservations.

But this is hardly the case. As far as i can tell, nobody is getting the average of their season. Not even Platinum Plus fixed weeks who have an effective season of 1 week.

Everyone is paying a bid-ask spread.

 

[Dave M]

Dana Tom - If you sell after joining the points program, the new owner doesn't get access to points unless the buyer pays a hefty fee. And if you sell a resale that is not currently eligible for points (because your purchase closes after June 20), it appears the new owner would also not be eligible for the points program.

 

[DanCali]

But if people do a request first then Marriott can't touch it correct? I have never done a request first so I am not sure about the details. If someone does a request first does that mean their week doesn't show up until there is a match? If this is yes, then if most people do a request first, inventory won't show for trading purposes.

Inventory will be on hold, but ine successful exchange will trigger many others.

The biggest problem with request first are (i) you need to be prepared to use if you don't get the exchange and (ii) the requested exchange has to fall before your week starts for extenal exchanges (not for Marriotts).

 

[dougp26364]

I'd say the sentiment in the peculation thread was 50%-50%, probably 70%-30% in favor of Marriott if you exclude Perry's posts...

Now some of Marriott's biggest fans are using word like "turd" in their posts when referring to this program. Many people were optimistic, gave it a chance, and most were let down...

When there's a 500 pound gorilla in the room, it's best not to ignore it.

I was a HUGE Marriott backer. Now that I've seen the plan.....not so much. What can I say, in one stroke of the pen Marriott moved me from supporting them to supporting Perry. If you've followed Perry and my posts, that's not necessarily and easy thing to do. Perry and I have debated various subjects for a long time. This may be the first time we're on the same page.

 

[taffy19]

They ARE giving out ALL the points they are requiring. But they are spread over ALL owners in that season/group. There is no skimming or non-existent points being asked for. To say they aren't assigning as many points to those periods as they are asking for is an absolutely incorrect statement. It makes it sound somehow underhanded or a value grab when that just isn't the case.

I understand what you are explaining because the seasons are evened out. It may be true too that competition will not be as fierce as some people are afraid of because people now reserve what they need and not try to get the best weeks for the best exchanges in the new system.

It's starting to sound more positive. The one bad thing is that re-sale buyers are no longer able to convert to the new system but they can open enrollment again at a later date for whatever conversion fee Marriott feels they can sell it for.

Once new resorts will be added, the competition for some locations will be getting more fierce because of so many new people that will be buying at new resorts in a trust as they may want to travel to these locations where the older resorts are but we don't have to worry about this for at least a few years.