Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[saturn28]

Why Marriott May think This is a Good Deal For Weeks Owners

These may be some of the reasons Marriott may think weeks owners may decide to join even though

1) The cost is not prohibitted. ( $650 to $1995)
2) They will not be able to reserve a week at any new Marriott resorts.
3) The cost for staying a week at a resort using points does not apply to them. They can simply continue to book any Marriott resort through II using the weeks exchange.
4) If they decide they want to stay less than a week, they can use the point system to book 1 to 6 night stays
5) If they are a Resale Owner, they will be able to trade their week for Marriott Rewards Points to stay at Marriott Resorts and Hotels worldwide.
6) They will only have to pay a fee of $165 to $199 per year. This fee will include the Interval membership, the Marriott Points membership, internal exchanges, Marriott Rewards fees, and lock-off fees.
7) If they don't join, the cost to join in the future may not exist or the fee may be a lot more
8) If they don't join, as the years go by there will be less availability for high demand weeks booking through Interval. In addition, they will not have access to new Marriott Resorts
9) If Marriott starts to sell resales again for the points system, they will be able to get Marriott to sell their week and receive 60% of the developers price.

 

[wsrobinson]

The lowest amount of points needed to reserve any 2 bdrm, OV week in platinum season at the Aruba Surf & Ocean Clubs is 4,125 points. It goes from 4,125 - 4,650....Platinum Plus weeks are 6,250 - 6,875.

Marriott is only giving us 4,075 points. We do not have enough points to reserve ANY week in our season. Unless I am reading this chart incorrectly?

This is a fact. However, you won't use the points to go back to your own resort. You will simply request a week at your own resort. The points are used to go to other resorts. Now, the question is...can you use those points to go someplace else?

 

[SueDonJ]

Wow! This thread grew HUGE this afternoon! A couple things ...

I'm still not able to access the info for how many points our weeks are worth through the "Enroll Now" button so I'll be trying and trying and trying and trying ... until Owner Services opens tomorrow and maybe another rep will verify what was told to me this morning OR give me different point values. Thanks, wsrobinson, for your SurfWatch figures - they give me something concrete to compare.

It seems there is a whole lot of confusion between the points being allotted to ownerships and the points usage charts that Davidvel put into PDF form for us. Does everyone who is questioning the different point values for weeks within the season, realize that even in the points system it will still be possible to book any week (subject to availability, of course) within the season? Those points usage charts are only for exchanges into the resort, not owners booking their owned weeks. I know it's been said here by others so I'm wondering why some folks are still thinking that they won't be able to book the same weeks because point values are different per week.

Can we please put a lid on the comments about owners who might join this new system being "crazy" or "stupid" or "ripped-off?" At least for a week maybe while we all figure it out? I know, I know, this thing won't work for everyone. But it will definitely work for some, and it's very aggravating to see that the old TUG mentality of insulting folks who might find value in a Marriott-direct product is already here in this thread not even twenty-four hours after rollout. I'm worried that with so many TUGgers not in favor of the points system, TUG is going to be a place that won't feel very hospitable to the few of us who might be able to make points work. Quite honestly, without TUG I wouldn't have nearly the level of knowledge it takes to make Marriott timeshares work to their best advantage, and I'd hate to be made to feel that I'm no longer welcome here if I choose points. Thanks for at least considering someone else's opinion.

 

[RandR]

Very well put, IMO. Marriott has made the agreement so one sided it borders on ridiculous. By paying to join you basically give Marriott the right to change anything, at anytime. It gets worse and worse the more you look at the details. I cant understand how anyone would fall for this.

While I am very unhappy with the new program this is something that I may have to defend Marriott on. They put clauses like this in the contracts so that they are not boxed in and if something needs to be changed it can be. Can any of the attorneys comment on this?

 

[wsrobinson]

Now, how did you come to this conclusion? This is exactly what the sales rep mentioned to me earlier today.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=930858&postcount=461

None of your existing options change after you enroll your week(s) with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program, except you will now have the convenience of paying consolidated Club Dues instead of à la carte fees. If you wish to continue using your week(s) as you have always done, you may. You never have to elect Vacation Club Points unless you want to. When you do elect Vacation Club Points, you will be able to redeem them for a vacation at another Marriott Vacation Club resort directly without exchanging through Interval International. You also will be able to check-in any day of the week, select the villa size that best accommodates your travel party and determine the length of your stay. You are no longer locked into 1-week vacations. Vacation Club Points can also be used for exciting travel adventures through the Explorer Collection.

 

[RandR]

I know this has been touched on earlier, but who is going to be responsible for all the extra cleanings that are going to be done in the units. Everytime someone checks in or out with the new 'stay a day or two" options...it has to be fully cleaned. Are we who own there going to have to pay?

Is it possible that the mf which seem higher for the points program are going to go to the extra costs?

 

[SueDonJ]

Questions for those of you who have spoken directly with a rep:

I understand that 800 points are gifted with enrollment which expire December 31, 2011. Is there a maintenance fee due for use?

If I purchase the lowest point package of 250 points @ $9.20 = $2300, will my enrollment fee of $1995 (I own developer and resale weeks) be waived?

Maria

The rep I spoke with this morning said that the annual Club Dues fee for 2010 ($165 up to 6,499 points, $199 for 6,500 or more points) will be waived if we join during this enrollment period because we are almost half-way through the year.

Don't know the answer to your second question.

 

[Darlene]

I can not find the link now to see how many points it takes to exchange into a resort. Does anyone know where it is on the website?
Thanks

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

A lot of people won't be signing up for this new program, and Interval International may not dry up as fast as you think.

First of all, if you live in New York, you don't even have the option to join, so you're stuck using the old program, a no choice alternative.

Secondly, what % of New York residents own a MVCI property? Other than California, I bet a large % of ownership is based in New York due to income alone.

Third, it now makes sense to look at other brands for exchanging rather than exclusively Marriott. Marriott will be losing my business in the exchange process as I will now look at other alternatives.

I'll continue to digest this as the days progress and hope I don't have too big of a headache.....

 

[wsrobinson]

Wow! This thread grew HUGE this afternoon! A couple things ...

I'm still not able to access the info for how many points our weeks are worth through the "Enroll Now" button so I'll be trying and trying and trying and trying ... until Owner Services opens tomorrow and maybe another rep will verify what was told to me this morning OR give me different point values. Thanks, wsrobinson, for your SurfWatch figures - they give me something concrete to compare.

Maybe your connection? Ive been in half a dozen times (including a minute ago) but my dsl is running at 6300 kbps.

Dean indicated the value given me on the site is a mistake and is really for 3 BD units. So, stay tuned or you may get more valid info tomorrow. For now, it continues to be what the site staes my week is "worth".

 

[skidoc]

The flexibility of the points program is why I bought Disney, rather than MVCI, a couple of years ago. Now I'm kicking myself that I didn't pick up a Marriott week on the resale market (I've been looking for EOY Ocean Pointe weeks but haven't been successful on ebay as of yet. Marriott states that resale owners can get into the points system if they closed before today. I guess that if I eventually pick up a Marriott week resale in the future, then I won't be able to get into the points system.

I wonder if resale prices will go further into the tank at this point. I was looking for a Marriott week to be able to access II (my DVC only access RCI). I guess I could consider some non-Marriott II traders.

 

[RandR]

There is way too much emotion on this thread, so I am checking out with final thoughts:

What is your vision for the future?

1. Marriott points will fail or you don't care what happens. You will go on your merry way and everything will stay the same. If you are happy using your week as designed (using the lottery method to get a reserved 7 day week) or have a fixed week and want to ocassionally trade to non-Marriott II resorts or trade for MR points you will be very happy and not join. There is no change for you and no reason to consider the system.

2. Marriott points will be a huge success. In the next few years (say 2-3) the Marriott inventory in II will dry up. All new resorts, MR exchanges, developer owned weeks, etc. will be deposited into the "Trust" and used for points exchanges. If you want to trade to other Marriotts or travel for less than 7 days you will be locked out of the system unless you pay the future price, unless you join at current rates. That future price may require a fee, or buying more points or who knows what. Today you can join for essentially free, the future is unknown. The only way you will ever get to a new Marriott resort is if someone wants to trade that for a Non-Marriott resort through II - not too likely.

My prediction is number 2. Marriott has already seeded the new system with lots of inventory and it is already harder to get an II exchange than past years. This will be an easy sell. Convert now and you get a "free" 800 points to offset the cost. 800 points is not enough to go where you want, so convert a week to try out the system. If it doesn't meet your need then no harm no foul, don't join next year.

However, all the people test driving the system will ensure that people love it. The more they love it the more they will convert and the whole thing will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Soon there will be few week deposits into II and the Marriott trades will be done through the points system.

Think about the salesmen. When I sit in front of them they will say that this is a "historic" opportunity to get into the system at low cost. Everyone new has to pay $9 a point, but you only paid $5 a point 10 years ago - what a deal. And your MF are almost the same .42 vs. .40 for new people. Do you really want to miss the chance of joining for free? Just try it out for a year and see. I can also sell you more points at a discount, with free points, plus the conversion fee goes away :hysterical:

I just caution everyone who likes exchanging between Marriotts to not be emotionally upset at the change, but think about how it will play out. Tug will have a 90% negative sentiment because we all game the current system, but that day is over starting tomorrow. The average Marriott customer will make the change and test drive it and that will make it work.

So think about what the future will look like. Marriott has put a lot of cash into this change and new Trust system and I would think twice before I bet against them. Especially when it does not cost me anything to try it, except for spending a few days on vacation to recoup my conversion fee at a nice Marriott. Plus my fee will earn me 5 points each on my credit card

Logical, reasonable and very well said.

But isn't it wrong? Once you join the program, you can't get out. You don't have to exchange for points but you are in the new system. Now if you want to exchange, it goes to II through Marriott. So am I missing something? Can you back out of the program after you are in it?

 

[wsrobinson]

I can not find the link now to see how many points it takes to exchange into a resort. Does anyone know where it is on the website?
Thanks

http://veljovich.com/tugpoints/points_charts.pdf

 

[SueDonJ]

Maybe your connection? Ive been in half a dozen times (including a minute ago) but my dsl is running at 6300 kbps.

Dean indicated the value given me on the site is a mistake and is really for 3 BD units. So, stay tuned or you may get more valid info tomorrow. For now, it continues to be what the site staes my week is "worth".

I have no idea. (Duh. See? Moron. ) Today's reps said there are reports about most Macs not getting access, but the problem isn't limited to Macs. In fact she couldn't access the points info for my weeks on her comp and had to put me on hold while she asked her supervisor. She did say that her comp was going to be worked on today and the glitches in the entire system should be fixed tomorrow. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, because now I can't get through on the Mac or on Don's crackberry browser.

I did read your and Dean's later posts, thanks. Good luck to all of us.

 

[wsrobinson]

But isn't it wrong? Once you join the program, you can't get out. You don't have to exchange for points but you are in the new system. Now if you want to exchange, it goes to II through Marriott. So am I missing something? Can you back out of the program after you are in it?

I remember it being discussed that you could get out and then back in for an amount much greater than the initial fee.

 

[ondeadlin]

A lot of people won't be signing up for this new program, and Interval International may not dry up as fast as you think.

First of all, if you live in New York, you don't even have the option to join, so you're stuck using the old program, a no choice alternative.

Secondly, what % of New York residents own a MVCI property? Other than California, I bet a large % of ownership is based in New York due to income alone.

This is a misconception that should be discussed.

II will dry up as fast, or as much, as Marriott wants it to, because now Marriott has the power to pluck any week it wants to out of the system, whether you join the new points system or not.

So no matter how many New Yorkers join, those same New Yorkers can have their week plucked by Marriott, thus weakening II.

 

[RandR]

I remember it being discussed that you could get out and then back in for an amount much greater than the initial fee.

I guess after 500+ posts in one day I must have missed/forgotten it.

 

[SueDonJ]

I remember it being discussed that you could get out and then back in for an amount much greater than the initial fee.

Yes, that was in the '08 survey and mentioned a 3-year term for some outrageous fee. None of the speculation that was fueled by those related survey questions seems to have made it into the program.

 

[SMB1]

You do understand that under the new system, as in any points system, the range of weeks covered by a deeded ownership include some that will carry high point values - holidays, summer weeks - and some lower but still in that season as originally outlined. So while your deed has the right to reserve one of the higher point value weeks you cannot and do not get that value every year. Instead they take the TOTAL points generated for all weeks in that season, divide by the total use periods & the resulting average per week is what you receive. So you are getting a fair distribution of point value covering your true share based on the week / season purchased. To further ensure that you get what you have coming they also do not charge you the actual "outside" value for those weeks - even the higher point value ones - if you use your own resort. You get the time for the value of your deeded ownership (and actually don't even have to use points to do that).

Once you step outside your home resort you do need to pay the true rate. You can easily do that by pooling, borrowing, renting or just owning more points than your original deed entitled you to. Now by carefully spreading those points through all the process and all the options it should be possible to get the exact use you want at various resorts and maximize the value of what you own. That is what we have found with other points based exchanges and no reason to think Marriott would work any differently.

You are getting a fair shake. The days of playing the system for free upgrades goes away. A known value system with hopefully better access to desired times (as owners are more careful with what they spend their limited points for rather than grabbing the best and biggest even just to trade) is what a good points system buys you. It does cost more than the old place & hope weeks type trades but is far easier to utilize and understand for most buyers. More like hotel reservations.

John, about a year ago I thought you, for what ever reason, had a chip on your shoulder. I thought the posts seemed negative. In the months leading up to this day , however, I found your posts to be very educational. You don't own Marriott so you have no real stake in this. But it is clear that you have forgotten more about TS than most of us will ever know. The posts are not negative, simply objective. Very helpful. Thanks.

 

[RandR]

This is a misconception that should be discussed.

II will dry up as fast, or as much, as Marriott wants it to, because now Marriott has the power to pluck any week it wants to out of the system, whether you join the new points system or not.

So no matter how many New Yorkers join, those same New Yorkers can have their week plucked by Marriott, thus weakening II.

But if people do a request first then Marriott can't touch it correct? I have never done a request first so I am not sure about the details. If someone does a request first does that mean their week doesn't show up until there is a match? If this is yes, then if most people do a request first, inventory won't show for trading purposes.

 

[wuv pooh]

But isn't it wrong? Once you join the program, you can't get out. You don't have to exchange for points but you are in the new system. Now if you want to exchange, it goes to II through Marriott. So am I missing something? Can you back out of the program after you are in it?

I can't escape :rofl: Since we are not Trust members we are under no obligation to stay in the system. In fact, if Marriott does not like the result they are under no obligation to continue it.

2. Exchange Members. This paragraph only applies to Exchange Members. In order to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program as a Exchange Member, an owner of an Interest must have voluntarily entered into an Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to Interests. Exchange Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions for Membership in the Program. During the term of the Exchange Member’s Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company and so long as a Exchange Member remains enrolled in the Program, Exchange Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations and facilities that are a part of the Program in accordance with the Exchange Procedures. If a Exchange Member desires to use the Accommodations outside the Exchange Member’s Affiliate Program or access Exchange Benefits, from time to time, the Exchange Member may voluntarily participate in the Program described in this Disclosure Guide and the Exchange Procedures. There is no guaranty that the renewal of any Enrollment Agreement will occur. Every Enrollment Agreement will have a one year term and may be renewed on a voluntary basis by the Exchange Member. Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of the Program as determined by Exchange Company.

You are on the hook for the fees if you want to stay though

b. Exchange Members. If a purchaser of a Exchange Member’s Interest does not pay the then-current enrollment fee and enroll in the Program, such purchaser will not be entitled to be a Member and will not be permitted to access the Program in any manner.

It is not clear if you can join, cancel, then join again to get the new resorts. I am sure this will be pitched as a "one time" chance to join without purchasing a points package.

 

[Stressy]

The lowest amount of points needed to reserve any 2 bdrm, OV week in platinum season at the Aruba Surf & Ocean Clubs is 4,125 points. It goes from 4,125 - 4,650....Platinum Plus weeks are 6,250 - 6,875.

Marriott is only giving us 4,075 points. We do not have enough points to reserve ANY week in our season. Unless I am reading this chart incorrectly?

Angela,

Did you see this?

To participate in the Vacation Club Points and Vacation Club PlusPoints offer you must be a resident of the District of Columbia or a resident of any state in the U.S. excluding New York.

 

[winger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965 View Post
if you only have 2000 Marriott Destination Vacatiion Club points
and
you only want (1) night in a studio at a MVC Resort

when can you make this reservation?
how many days out??

It seem like inside of 60 days.

My rep said 10 months. This agrees with the that chart that shows levels of membership and booking timelines

 

[Darlene]

Thanks for the chart! I did make a mistake, but this is what I found out about our fixed week at Marriott Monarch.
The new point systems says that we would get 1900 points for our week. We have a May 28th, 2011 check-in, and to get a GV it would take 2,675 points. That is difference of 775 points! To get an OF, which owners at a resort often get upgraded to if available, it would take 3,775 points.
I don't even want to get into how much it would take to book to places we have been or would want to go.
Darlene

 

[billymach4]

Angela,

Did you see this?

To participate in the Vacation Club Points and Vacation Club PlusPoints offer you must be a resident of the District of Columbia or a resident of any state in the U.S. excluding New York.

WOW!!! This is HUGE. WHY? Are they afraid of Andrew Cuomo the Atty General of NYS?

What is up with that? That makes my decision real easy, But I do feel sort of on the outside as I don't even have the option to consider this?