Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[RandR]

It is false. Marriott also gives people MORE points than it takes to reserve in that previous season. It lets people reserve weeks for 4,500 points, 750 less than they gave.

So is Marriott ripping you off or are you ripping Marriott off?

Answer: No one, they are equivalent. The true platinum weeks now cost more than the tarnished platinum weeks.

This has ALWAYS been true, but is now transparent to everyone. Ironically this is the "trade value grid" that everyone has been clamoring for

I was going to wait until after I read all the posts to comment but I can't seem to keep up.

Pooh, what you are saying definitely has truth to it. Some people will have enough points to reserve in their old season and some won't. Here are some of the problems as I see it:

- If you bought a week (especially recently) direct from Marriott and thought that you would be able to potentially book any week in that season and now you can't, I would be furious. I can only go during school breaks, so it would make no sense for me to turn my week into the points system since I could NEVER do better than just reserving my original week. In fact, if I turned my week in for points, I couldn't even get my week back. Can you imagine if you spent $20,000, $30,000 or $40,000 and now you can't get your desired week without buying more points if you decide to join the program?

- From what people have been posting, in some resorts the points they are granted would not get them ANY week in their old season.

- I would completely agree with you (almost) if Marriott took a true average of points now allocated for each season and that is what everyone got. This way the points given to owners would equal the points needed to book that whole season. This does not appear to be the case. Marriott has skimmed points off the top.

- If you think this will make it easier to get the unit you want, you are delusional. If EVERY owner with enough points can now call on a first come first serve basis, the prime weeks will be gone even quicker.

 

[Pit]

Don't think that flies under II's prohibition to rent now, as a rental is considered different than a "guest certificate" and many are warned here on TUG not to rent a unit that was reserved through II. I would think it would be similar??

I thought the text was quoted from a Marriott document (i.e. has nothing to do with II). The term "commercial purposes" may be clearly defined within the document quoted. Otherwise, I interpret that to mean a legally recognized commercial entity, not an owner acting individually.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

What is the record for most posts per thread on a single day????

just curious...

This one is rockin'

even without Perry!!!!

 

[RandR]

Then don't. No one is threatening you with anything. You can do everything you do today. If you do not buy the vision then your future opportunities to exchange into other Marriott resorts will be limited to exchanges with others who share your view if Marriotts vision prevails. Otherwise, everything is exactly the same for you - Use, exchange for MR points, rent, or trade via II.

But this is not true. It appears that Marriott will be poaching weeks out of II so some of the best weeks won't make it.

Look I know that some of the Marriott apologists say, 'Hey, all the paperwork says is that you get to use your week in your season. Everything else is gravy'. Well first with this new system it may now be much harder to get the weeks I want.

Also, the contract only says you get your week in your season. BUT even the most honest salesperson sells the dream of trade and going all over the world. The less honest ones push and push and push that concept all with Marriotts blessing. Now they are goignto sharply limit that right. While they are holding to the letter of the law, they are spitting on what they promised.

 

[PeterS]

Been avoiding the speculation but now that real info is out....

My first impressions:

This favors the big owners and not single week owners.

I have one week at Sabal which comes in at 1675...
I am not willing to buy more and increase my maintenance fees...
Beyond the initial payment, the single fee saves me money in years I trade for Reward Points. If I trade to II, I lose money. So on average, it looks like a break even.

So the only real cost (you retain all older choices) is the $600 up front.
The only real gain is access to the newer resorts... for fewer days and smaller units.

I am on the fence... but leaning to doing it for access to the newer resorts.

I would appreciate any insight or thought on what I may be missing.

The one thing I see clearly is that I can never recommend the Marriott system to anyone again. The new Lakeshore Reserve 1bdrm in the slowest season is about twice the points of what my Sabal 2bdrm in mid demand season gets. Sabal is on the grounds (and includes all amenities) of the World Center. Lakeshore Reserve is the same with the JW and RitzCarlton. The only real reason a larger unit in a better season is lower is the age of the resort. If Marriott is doing this now, than even if you have a week worth 4000 points today.... the new resorts in the same area are going to be 5000, 6000, 7000...... Your points purchasing power will drop with each new resort. I can't recommend a system like that.

Thoughts?

Pete

 

[taffy19]

Thanks for finding that. Makes sense that they'd lock that up.

But what does that mean for the legacy owner with a deed who joins the new program?? Can they no longer rent their deeded unit if they don't exercise the points that year and reserve their deeded week simply because they signed up??? Which leads to the additional question of voting rights. Even if you don't exercise your week into points, do you still forfeit your right to vote????

Because there are plenty of people who use the option to rent their weeks some years. Will they no longer be able to unless they stay away from the new system?

I read so much last night and believe that I read somewhere that it cannot be abused. Does it mean that you can rent or borrow points from other owners to get the desired amount of points for your next trip that you take yourself or for an exta condo that you may need for your family or friends?

Too many documents to read last night but we have time to read and digest it all between now and the August date to get the extra PlusPoints and to the end of the year, if you don't care about the freebie PlusPoints. Once you sign the dotted line, you will lose a lot more rights that you had before and I see this trend continue in the timesharing industry! The developers want to eat the cake and have it too and certainly when they are the property managers at the resort.

 

[gmarine]

Only an idiot would sign up for this program. The bid-ask spread is astronomical (4%-20%). And we thought Wall Street was evil. After looking at the Grande Ocean spread, I wonder how to contact all owners and alert them to this scam. I guess we just have to fire Marriott. They are that dense.

Very well put, IMO. Marriott has made the agreement so one sided it borders on ridiculous. By paying to join you basically give Marriott the right to change anything, at anytime. It gets worse and worse the more you look at the details. I cant understand how anyone would fall for this.

 

[DanCali]

It is in the Exchange Procedures disclosure on page 23 that comes up if you want to enroll your week. It is a chart, which I cannot format, but it shows the difference between Tuesday and Friday for reservations. If the inventory is mixed, then it will make a big difference. If the inventory is separate then I think it is just spreading out the calls.

the following is a summary of the Call-in Calendar:
If you are reserving:
And your desired Check-in is:
The first day to check availability is:
7 or more nights and are calling for a Priority 1 Reservation
Wednesday – Tuesday
Tuesday
13 months prior to check-in
7 or more nights and are calling for a Priority 2 Reservation
Wednesday – Tuesday
Friday
12 months prior to check-in
1 or more night(s) and are calling for a Priority 3 Reservation
Wednesday – Tuesday
Tuesday
10 months prior to check-in
1 or more night(s) and are calling for Open Reservation Time
Wednesday – Tuesday
Tuesday
60 days prior to check-in

Mixing inventory is a concern. But I don't think points owners get a head start. Typically, if a resort first checkin day is on a Friday, the 13 month window opens on a Tueday.

For example, the window for July 9 (sat), 2011 opened on June 8, 2010 (assuming the first checin day is a Friday). June 8, 2010 is a Tuesday. When the next year is a leap year (i.e. reservations for 2012 made in 2011), weeks owners would actually call in on a Monday at the 13 months window.

For the 12 months window, weeks owners typically call in on a Thursday (if the first checkin day is a Friday), so they actually get a head start.

Either way, mixing inventory and creating a free for all doesn't help.

 

[SMB1]

It is not false. Now Marriott will give you less points for your deposited week than it will cost the exchanger to exchange for the week you deposited. If my week floats platinum and platinum season weeks range from 5000 points to 6000 points, then I can reserve a 6000 point week to use at my home resort. If Marriott gives me 5250 points when I deposit my week, then I will never be able to reserve a 6000 point week at any resort other than my own. In addition if the person exchanging for my home resort week that I would have used pays 6000 points for the priviledge while Marriott only gives me 5250 points, they are pocketing 750 points per owner. It is a rip off where marriott pays less points for deposited weeks than they charge to redeem them.

They are not pocketing it. There are others depositing a 5000 point week and getting 5250 for it. You receive the average for the season, which means Marriott loses on some and makes on others.

 

[DanCali]

He will tell you that this system will hurt the secondary resale market but will strengthen Marriott's Resale operations through which you can sell your week at developer price less a 40% commission. For a $25,000 week, this means $15,000 for you instead of a fraction of that if you sold at Ebay or other means. Hopefully, this might be true.

Do you get this in writing?

 

[David10225]

Housekeeping

I know this has been touched on earlier, but who is going to be responsible for all the extra cleanings that are going to be done in the units. Everytime someone checks in or out with the new 'stay a day or two" options...it has to be fully cleaned. Are we who own there going to have to pay?

 

[mpizza]

Don't know if I'm going to join yet, still digesting. I'll probably wait until I can sit with an advisor while on vacation next week.

Did anyone else calculate what it would cost to purchase their existing points value? I own one developer and four resales, total points value 9,625, purchase cost $26,500. If I purchased the equivalent number of points today at $9.20 pp, Marriott would charge me $88,550.

Maybe I should join and then turn around and sell the points back to Marriott :rofl:

Maria

 

[griffinhouse]

Oh my gosh, I've spent the greater part of today reading through this site. I'm not sure I see any advantage to us. I spoke with a Marriott rep this morning and she told me "To be honest, I don't even like this plan". She also told me that Marriott only expects about 20% of owners to join--I've seen lower expectations given- but that is what she told me. She also told me that in no way will Marriott Points program be pulling deposited inventory out of Interval. There will be 2 separate inventories. So that would leave the inventory of 80% of owners still in II. I'm skeptical and a little concerned that a company I have trusted for so long is so willing to screw with their owners. Doesn't make good business sense to me. As a Marriott Platinum Rewards member they could also lose me as loyal hotel customer.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed A Mouthful.

I'd have to say no to membership on that provision alone.

Shux upon Marriott Destination Points.

Shux upon T. H. E. Club.

Shux upon VIP Status.

Shux upon ROFR.

Shux upon all the various semi-clever ways the timeshare companies have come up with to push back against timeshare resales.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[wuv pooh]

What is your vision for the Future?

There is way too much emotion on this thread, so I am checking out with final thoughts:

What is your vision for the future?

1. Marriott points will fail or you don't care what happens. You will go on your merry way and everything will stay the same. If you are happy using your week as designed (using the lottery method to get a reserved 7 day week) or have a fixed week and want to ocassionally trade to non-Marriott II resorts or trade for MR points you will be very happy and not join. There is no change for you and no reason to consider the system.

2. Marriott points will be a huge success. In the next few years (say 2-3) the Marriott inventory in II will dry up. All new resorts, MR exchanges, developer owned weeks, etc. will be deposited into the "Trust" and used for points exchanges. If you want to trade to other Marriotts or travel for less than 7 days you will be locked out of the system unless you pay the future price, unless you join at current rates. That future price may require a fee, or buying more points or who knows what. Today you can join for essentially free, the future is unknown. The only way you will ever get to a new Marriott resort is if someone wants to trade that for a Non-Marriott resort through II - not too likely.

My prediction is number 2. Marriott has already seeded the new system with lots of inventory and it is already harder to get an II exchange than past years. This will be an easy sell. Convert now and you get a "free" 800 points to offset the cost. 800 points is not enough to go where you want, so convert a week to try out the system. If it doesn't meet your need then no harm no foul, don't join next year.

However, all the people test driving the system will ensure that people love it. The more they love it the more they will convert and the whole thing will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Soon there will be few week deposits into II and the Marriott trades will be done through the points system.

Think about the salesmen. When I sit in front of them they will say that this is a "historic" opportunity to get into the system at low cost. Everyone new has to pay $9 a point, but you only paid $5 a point 10 years ago - what a deal. And your MF are almost the same .42 vs. .40 for new people. Do you really want to miss the chance of joining for free? Just try it out for a year and see. I can also sell you more points at a discount, with free points, plus the conversion fee goes away :hysterical:

I just caution everyone who likes exchanging between Marriotts to not be emotionally upset at the change, but think about how it will play out. Tug will have a 90% negative sentiment because we all game the current system, but that day is over starting tomorrow. The average Marriott customer will make the change and test drive it and that will make it work.

So think about what the future will look like. Marriott has put a lot of cash into this change and new Trust system and I would think twice before I bet against them. Especially when it does not cost me anything to try it, except for spending a few days on vacation to recoup my conversion fee at a nice Marriott. Plus my fee will earn me 5 points each on my credit card

 

[hipslo]

Then don't. No one is threatening you with anything. You can do everything you do today. If you do not buy the vision then your future opportunities to exchange into other Marriott resorts will be limited to exchanges with others who share your view if Marriotts vision prevails. Otherwise, everything is exactly the same for you - Use, exchange for MR points, rent, or trade via II.

Except that you are now competing with ALL points owners to make reservations at your home resort.

 

[RandR]

Scrapgen, you are pretty much the biggest winner of anyone under the new system.

Join the system. If you want to stay in your fixed weeks then use them as planned - simple. If you had floating weeks, you would have a potential issue, but fixed weeks are guaranteed.

If you want to trade - multiple opportunities. You are no longer forced to trade down via II or rent your week and hope for the best.

You can spend 10 nights in the summer in Newport coast. Go to San Diego for the weekend and spend 10 nights Sun-Thur and still have points left over.

You can spend a week at Grande Ocean Ocean Side and have points left over- a comparable trade or spend a few more points or go 6 days Ocean Front - a great trade.

You can spend TWO weeks in Orlando or Williamsburg

etc., etc.

It is a great program for people who have spent big bucks with Marriott.

But first they would have to give up their fixed week and then hope they got the trades they wanted. With II can't they put in a request first and then if they don't get what they want, just stick with their fixed week?

 

[IngridN]

Don't think that flies under II's prohibition to rent now, as a rental is considered different than a "guest certificate" and many are warned here on TUG not to rent a unit that was reserved through II. I would think it would be similar??

The answer I got was that your points reservation can be rented, unlike your II reservation where you would loose membership if caught. I specifically asked if I make a reservation with points, can I rent that reservation to others and the answer was yes, no problem.

Ingrid

 

[hipslo]

Where is this written?

Couldn't this look weeks owners out completely or just leave them with end of season reservations (e.g. December)?

I believe (though I am not certain) that this is only the case at 13 months, not 12, and yes, that is exactly my concern.

It is on the mvci website, after you log in, under "how to reserve". There is a chart that mentions that inventory is released on tuesday, and there is also a sample calendar that tells you the date on which inventory can first be reserved under points under various scenarios.

 

[wsrobinson]

There is way too much emotion on this thread, so I am checking out with final thoughts:

What is your vision for the future?

1. Marriott points will fail or you don't care what happens. You will go on your merry way and everything will stay the same. If you are happy using your week as designed (using the lottery method to get a reserved 7 day week) or have a fixed week and want to ocassionally trade to non-Marriott II resorts or trade for MR points you will be very happy and not join. There is no change for you and no reason to consider the system.

2. Marriott points will be a huge success. In the next few years (say 2-3) the Marriott inventory in II will dry up. All new resorts, MR exchanges, developer owned weeks, etc. will be deposited into the "Trust" and used for points exchanges. If you want to trade to other Marriotts or travel for less than 7 days you will be locked out of the system unless you pay the future price, unless you join at current rates. That future price may require a fee, or buying more points or who knows what. Today you can join for essentially free, the future is unknown. The only way you will ever get to a new Marriott resort is if someone wants to trade that for a Non-Marriott resort through II - not too likely.

My prediction is number 2. Marriott has already seeded the new system with lots of inventory and it is already harder to get an II exchange than past years. This will be an easy sell. Convert now and you get a "free" 800 points to offset the cost. 800 points is not enough to go where you want, so convert a week to try out the system. If it doesn't meet your need then no harm no foul, don't join next year.

However, all the people test driving the system will ensure that people love it. The more they love it the more they will convert and the whole thing will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Soon there will be few week deposits into II and the Marriott trades will be done through the points system.

Think about the salesmen. When I sit in front of them they will say that this is a "historic" opportunity to get into the system at low cost. Everyone new has to pay $9 a point, but you only paid $5 a point 10 years ago - what a deal. And your MF are almost the same .42 vs. .40 for new people. Do you really want to miss the chance of joining for free? Just try it out for a year and see. I can also sell you more points at a discount, with free points, plus the conversion fee goes away :hysterical:

I just caution everyone who likes exchanging between Marriotts to not be emotionally upset at the change, but think about how it will play out. Tug will have a 90% negative sentiment because we all game the current system, but that day is over starting tomorrow. The average Marriott customer will make the change and test drive it and that will make it work.

So think about what the future will look like. Marriott has put a lot of cash into this change and new Trust system and I would think twice before I bet against them. Especially when it does not cost me anything to try it, except for spending a few days on vacation to recoup my conversion fee at a nice Marriott. Plus my fee will earn me 5 points each on my credit card

Logical, reasonable and very well said.

 

[hipslo]

- If you think this will make it easier to get the unit you want, you are delusional. If EVERY owner with enough points can now call on a first come first serve basis, the prime weeks will be gone even quicker.

No question.

 

[RandR]

You are thinking old system, welcome to the Matrix

Do the same thing, but only use Sun-Thu points. Then you will see the great value to you. If you are stuck in a weeks mentality then points will never be a benefit to you. In the weeks system any trade you make will always be to your detriment. In the Matrix you have a fighting chance

So they get you to join the points program and then decide to revalue the days of the week. Now you are stuck and your fighting chance has a sword stuck in it.

 

[ArtsieAng]

They are not pocketing it. There are others depositing a 5000 point week and getting 5250 for it. You receive the average for the season, which means Marriott loses on some and makes on others.

The lowest amount of points needed to reserve any 2 bdrm, OV week in platinum season at the Aruba Surf & Ocean Clubs is 4,125 points. It goes from 4,125 - 4,650....Platinum Plus weeks are 6,250 - 6,875.

Marriott is only giving us 4,075 points. We do not have enough points to reserve ANY week in our season. Unless I am reading this chart incorrectly?

 

[mpizza]

Questions for those of you who have spoken directly with a rep:

I understand that 800 points are gifted with enrollment which expire December 31, 2011. Is there a maintenance fee due for use?

If I purchase the lowest point package of 250 points @ $9.20 = $2300, will my enrollment fee of $1995 (I own developer and resale weeks) be waived?

Maria

 

[winger]

...
I think it makes sense to see how many points you get and how many points your week is worth, but you would never use points to get 7 days back at your home resort. That's just not what they're for...

Now, how did you come to this conclusion? This is exactly what the sales rep mentioned to me earlier today.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=930858&postcount=461