Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[pharmgirl]

won 't send any more money to marriott, we'll keep our weeks, if we trade in II there are plenty ot nice resorts w/o Marriott
we have also made direct trades with other Marriott owners that worked very nicely for all Will do that again if we really want other marriott resorts
We also own Starwood (Westin Maui) and don't rely on the SVN, seems too difficult and chancy , give up your week and HOPE you make a trade at 8 months out and that is lower on the "view" scale when you do get there
NO THANKS

 

[Stefa]

Can someone please copy-paste the table with points value assigned to each week? I don't own Marriott so I can't log into the Marriott website to see the value of the weeks, but I am very curious to see it, since I have been looking into a resale purchase lately. Thanks.

I may be wrong (I'm still pretty confused) but it sounds like resale purchases that haven't already closed won't be able to join the new system.

 

[Brenda]

I'm not quite sure if we can yet say that Marriott used the actual deeded week to determine the point value of your unit. We need to find out if all other Platinum Grande Vista weeks (I assume it was a 2 bedroom unit) were assigned 2775 points. If so, then it doesn't matter which week you were deeded within the Platinum season.

In my case, I would like to find out if any Platinum 3 bedroom units at Grand Chateau were assigned a value other than 4625 points. Any Platinum 3 bedroom villa Grand Chateau owners out there?

I own at Grand Chateau 3 Bd Platinum. I also received 4625 points for my week. Marriott did not use what week you were assigned for your point values. I also own at Kauai beach Club 1 Bd OF. My assigned week there is week 51 - Christmas week. However, I did not get the point value of Week 51 1 Bd OF which is 4075 points. I will get 2775 points for KBC, which is close to the week value of the lowest week.

 

[tombo]

I would never purchase something from Marriott that couldn't be sold on the resale market when I decided to sell.

Unfortunatelly with the advent of the new Points Program, there is a very good chance that we already did.

 

[wsrobinson]

I may be wrong (I'm still pretty confused) but it sounds like resale purchases that haven't already closed won't be able to join the new system.

I get that as well but being that the closing process takes 60 days or so what will they be doing with all the weeks purchased in the last 2 months? Have these people bought into the points program? i would say "NO". Therefore, I am confused about "closed".

 

[bw3]

value of points given vs required

This isn't true in all cases. My SurfWatch week is valued at 5750 points which is more than enough (4500) to stay for 7 days at SurfWatch in platinum season.

So the program would benefit you under these circumstances. It would not work for Grande Ocean. Marriott will offer 4,200 for platinum but charge 4,500 to reserve it. They give 3,325 for gold but ask 3,450 to reserve it. Oh and by the way, 3 of the gold weeks I have reserved for 2011 would require 4,500 as if they were platinum. Also, Frenchmans Cove 3br plat will get me 5,025 points but I would need 5,675 to reserve it. No thanks! Bob

 

[DanCali]

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=930089&postcount=8

Well at least 2 NCV Platinum (6950) qualifies for premier (6500 points)...

I still don't see a reason to convert...

 

[wsrobinson]

So the program would benefit you under these circumstances. It would not work for Grande Ocean. Marriott will offer 4,200 for platinum but charge 4,500 to reserve it. They give 3,325 for gold but ask 3,450 to reserve it. Oh and by the way, 3 of the gold weeks I have reserved for 2011 would require 4,500 as if they were platinum. Also, Frenchmans Cove 3br plat will get me 5,025 points but I would need 5,675 to reserve it. No thanks! Bob

GO is only 4200 for a platinum week? It seems like it would be exactly what SurfWatch is for platinum season.

 

[DanCali]

In both systems, the developer and II are balancing the inventory books in the back end. Starwood showed owners what they were really up to. Marriott learned from Starwood owner outrage and lawsuit threats. Marriott and II are cleverly masking what they agreed to. Once II has usage rights from an owner (i.e. - deposit or exchange completed), I believe they have the legal right to negotiate/exchange/balance out those weeks with alternate inventory from the affiliate developer. Marriott and II devised an approach which I think does the same thing as Starwood, yet adds enough levels of abstraction from individual accounts that the threat of a lawsuit is significantly diminished and would be so much harder to investigate, prove and quantify damages. Starwood could learn a thing or two from it's more sophisticated and marketing savvy rival.

Can't one circumvent Marriott's approach with Request First?

 

[Stefa]

I get that as well but being that the closing process takes 60 days or so what will they be doing with all the weeks purchased in the last 2 months? Have these people bought into the points program? i would say "NO". Therefore, I am confused about "closed".

I would think "closed" meant the deed had been recorded. Until that time, the buyer is not the legal owner.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Does "If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program." mean that the Silver BB Oceanside week I bought last night on eBay for $1.25 is eligible??? Or will they simply execute ROFR??

.


It does if you can close before midnight tonight, however it usually takes a few weeks to get it thru ROFR, so I doubt you'll be closing in time


.

 

[DanCali]

Does "If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program." mean that the Silver BB Oceanside week I bought last night on eBay for $1.25 is eligible??? Or will they simply execute ROFR??

"Closed" probably means registered at county. If anyone bought in the last 4-6 weeks the likely won't qualify.

 

[winger]

We have to take into account that internal points excahnges and points excahnges through Interval do not have to pay an exchange fee for each excahnge, this is all covered in the Club Fees. For multiple weeks owners this saving adds up.

In addition you are much more flexible with points, being able to book different check in days and lengths of stays.

Let's be fair and not just compare Sat-Sat weeks to the old weesk system.

Well, in all fairness, anytime "flexibility" is built into anything in life, there is a premium cost to enjoying the benefits of having the flexibility. So far reading into this, the new Program is no different.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Pox, Shux -- Mox Nix.

A pox on them as Alan would say.

I usually just say Shux Upon'm.

But the sentiment is consistent -- no sense quibbling over terminology.

-- Alan Cole, McLean Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[DanCali]

I'm not impressed with Marriott's new point system and won't convert. However, this new program seems much too complicated to sell to Mr & Mrs Tourist at a timeshare presentation while they are on vacation. How can Marriott possibly explain all of this info in a 90 minute presentation?

What happens if you purchase from Marriott and want to sell your points in the future? Can a resale buyer of points participate in the new system or are they back to a weeks system?

I would never purchase something from Marriott that couldn't be sold on the resale market when I decided to sell.

Fortunately for Marriott, Mr. & Mrs. tourist don't know about the resale market... it worked so far with most of the 400,000 owners who didn't know they could buy (almost) the same thing for much less..

 

[dougp26364]

Does "If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program." mean that the Silver BB Oceanside week I bought last night on eBay for $1.25 is eligible??? Or will they simply execute ROFR??

If you agreed to the purchase last night then the deal hasn't closed as of yet. So no, that week shouldn't be eligible. Agreeing to the sale by winning the auction isn't the same as closing on the deal.

 

[dougp26364]

Can't one circumvent Marriott's approach with Request First?

That's what I'm thinking and, since we're happy to use our owned weeks, that's the way we'll probably exchange from here on out.

 

[wsrobinson]

If you agreed to the purchase last night then the deal hasn't closed as of yet. So no, that week shouldn't be eligible. Agreeing to the sale by winning the auction isn't the same as closing on the deal.

I agree completely with you but is Marriott really not going to allow all recent sales (the last 2-3 mos) into the program? Really??? Even direct sales in the last 2-3 months? That doesn't sound right. Especially if some of these owners "want" to be part of the new system.

 

[rsackett]

Manor Club Plat = 2375
Harbour Pointe week 32 = 1150

If I read post #76 correctly it would now take BOTH of my Marriott equivilant Pat weeks to exchange for ONE two bedroom AVERAGE TDI two bedroom in II using points!

$1995 to convert, makes my choice easy.

Ray

P.S. - If II can ot get me the kind of exchanges I am used to with my Marriotts, I will try other exchange companys, and direct exchanges.

 

[windje2000]

Probably late to the game, but here are my intitial thoughts

New Marriott system

The major component

• Your week is worth x points when you contribute it to the ‘trust.’

• Your week is worth y points when you want to purchase from the ‘trust.’

• Marriott gets to keep the difference between x and y and monetize it.

Example:

Marriott Grande Vista 3BR Platinum week.

When I contribute it to the trust, I receive 3,700 points.

When someone wants that week, it costs them 4,500 points.

The benefit to Marriott – the cash they can get when they sell the ‘bid-ask’ spread.


Marriott appears to have created a “points security” with a bid-ask spread . . . determined by Marriott. [Wonder why it can’t be marketed to NY residents? Securities laws?]


Another striking component

The “points security” the want you to trade your deeded week for has a one year life. After one year – worthless; you forfeit the points - no exchange for you.

Guess who benefits. Marriott.

Moreover, the one year ‘life’ of Marriott points effectively eliminates the ability to trade ‘up’ as you can never get enough points in one year to do so. I guess they will want cash on top of points.


Compare and contrast

Note this is very different from the II system that currently exists.

Relative value is determined by ‘trading power.”

One week goes in one week comes out. This is a zero sum game.

Not so the new Marriott system. Marriott has built a system with a bid ask spread, and aims to keep the spread for itself.


Am I a current owners damaged by this?

When I bought a Marriott timeshare, I purchased a bundle of rights. One of those was the deeded week.

To induce me to purchase that deeded week, there was an intangible asset associated with it - the ability to participate in a barter system created for the exchange of weeks. This intangible asset was decidedly attractive as few will want to stay exclusively in the resort they purchased.

Now, Marriott has negatively affected the ability to trade for other locations, notwithstanding that the program is voluntary and will run parallel to the existing II system. (That’s like saying the produce selection at the existing farmers market won’t be affected by establishing a competing farmers market across the street, assuming the farmers can’t be in two places at once.)

THE EXISTING BARTER SYSTEM AT II CAN ONLY BE NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY THE NEW PROGRAM.

The intangible asset associated with the barter system of the bundle of rights I purchased has been changed.


Marriott appears to believe it has the right (and may have as a matter of law) to change the system to essentially ‘skim’ a ‘bid-ask’ spread having a size of its choosing from the exchange process.

One element of the direct damages to existing owners (as a group) can readily be measured by the number of points (and cash, if the collect cash in lieu of points to trade up) associated with their participation. Every point or dollar from existing owners deeded weeks that accrue to the benefit of Marriott comes out of the hide of the existing owners.

Its still a zero sum game; Marriott has decided to big foot its way into skimming some of the value of your interest.


The consequential damages are less easily measured.

An argument could be made that the value of all deeded weeks has been negatively affected.

There is now more uncertainty (and more risk) associated with owning a Marriott timeshare.



Marriott’s reputation for treating owners equitably has been shattered.

Who sets the bid-ask spread? Marriott. Who benefits from the bid ask spread? Marriott. Does that sound like a conflict?

And what’s the relationship between II and Marriott going to be? Will II inventory be sucked into the Marriott system.

Maybe its time for the 500,000+ existing Marriott owners to set up their own exchange system.

Go to the sales presentations. Take their money. And tell them how you feel.

 

[oceanpointeman]

I just got off the phone with a Marriott rep. This is what he told me:

1. The minimum points you can purchase is 1,000. Thereafter you can purchase in 250 increments (i.e. 1000, 1250, 1500, etc.).

2. Each point cost $9.20.

3. A 1,000 points will result in roughly $400 in maintenance fees per year.

4. I own a 3-bdr Ocean Pointe gold season and it's point value is 3725. But if I want to use points to get that same unit it will cost me 4,000 points . Un-freakin-believable.

I am not happy about this new points system and I will not be joining.

 

[bw3]

Grande Ocean points

Yes, 4,200 points for Grande Ocean platinum oceanside. I am not sure what oceanfront would get you. They only showed the points values for what we own. Bob

 

[chriskre]

Is there any mention of a decrease in points required in the 30 day window or some type of cash rates like HGVC open season?

Are they planning on offering an option to sell you the points you are short like Disney is now doing to complete a reservation since they've magically reduced what you have to complete a reservation? :annoyed:

I can't see Marriott not allowing future resale buyers in their new club. Unless they are planning to snap up all the $1.00 deals that will be available, if they don't let others into their club at a reasonable rate like HGVC's $695 rate then how else will they get inventory for their points club? Sounds to me like they are just putting a deadline in place like our government did with the first time home buyers, trying to stimulate their economy and then they'll extend the deadline.

I've been on the fence with purchasing Marriott because of all this and am glad I waited. I guess when the dust settles we'll see if my decision was correct or not.

 

[wsrobinson]

Yes, 4,200 points for Grande Ocean platinum oceanside. I am not sure what oceanfront would get you. They only showed the points values for what we own. Bob

Bob,

Did you buy direct or resale?

 

[dougp26364]

I agree completely with you but is Marriott really not going to allow all recent sales (the last 2-3 mos) into the program? Really??? Even direct sales in the last 2-3 months? That doesn't sound right. Especially if some of these owners "want" to be part of the new system.

I'm sure that there will eventually be a path into the new system......for a price. After all the new system allows Marriott to steal points by giving owners less than it takes to reserve their own unit at their home resort. Call it the Wonderful Wizzarding World of Marriott and the Disappearing Points. I never thought I'd ever see Marriott so blatently ripping owners off right in front of our faces. It's amazing the arogance I'm seeing with this new system. Shame on me for ever thinking that Marriott was a stand up organization built on intergity.

Fortunately, this if voluntary. You have to give them the right to steal value from you. Not only do you have to opt in but, you have to pay to opt in. I'm glad I can keep my weeks just as they are and continue to exchange for what I want though either Interval, SFX or any other independant exchange company.