Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[dougp26364]

I just got off the phone with a Marriott rep. This is what he told me:

1. The minimum points you can purchase is 1,000. Thereafter you can purchase in 250 increments (i.e. 1000, 1250, 1500, etc.).

2. Each point cost $9.20.

3. A 1,000 points will result in roughly $400 in maintenance fees per year.

4. I own a 3-bdr Ocean Pointe gold season and it's point value is 3725. But if I want to use points to get that same unit it will cost me 4,000 points . Un-freakin-believable.

I am not happy about this new points system and I will not be joining.

That means that 5,000 points will cost $46,000. :hysterical: Is it any wonder that (at least according to Fletch as I understand it) some of their top salesmen have left the company?

 

[ada903]

So it will cost $36,800 to buy 4,000 points, and $1,600 annual maintenance fee? And most high season weeks at good resorts will cost 4,000-6,000 points? Ouch.

I just got off the phone with a Marriott rep. This is what he told me:

1. The minimum points you can purchase is 1,000. Thereafter you can purchase in 250 increments (i.e. 1000, 1250, 1500, etc.).

2. Each point cost $9.20.

3. A 1,000 points will result in roughly $400 in maintenance fees per year.

4. I own a 3-bdr Ocean Pointe gold season and it's point value is 3725. But if I want to use points to get that same unit it will cost me 4,000 points . Un-freakin-believable.

I am not happy about this new points system and I will not be joining.

 

[gmarine]

Marriott sure is looking out for its owners. If you paid the vastly overpriced developer price, even very recently, they hose you for another $600. If you decided to save some $$ and buy resale, they hose you even more.

Now its going to be interesting to watch the effect on resale prices.

I would love to see this thing fail miserably.

 

[SueDonJ]

- They're still having problems with some computers accessing that "Enroll Now" link so I called in to get my points info and ask some questions. We're still not completely convinced and will take some time to think it over, but more and more this is looking like what I hoped it would be - an overlay system for exchanges that offers much more flexible usage opportunities and is very similar to DVC's system. And honestly, I'm a little bit surprised at the costs - a one-time reasonable fee (IMO, for direct purchases) for life of the ownership as opposed to the very high fee for three years mentioned in that survey? Annual Club Dues of $199 to cover all transactions? Not bad at all, even considering that Club Dues will probably increase at a similar rate to m/f.

- The way I figure, whatever impact the system has on inventory overall will occur regardless of whether we join or not, so I'm not worrying about whether or not points owners will have access to my home resort at the same time I do - they will, and there's nothing I can do it about.

- The rep said that if you convert you'll be given a new II member number and will have the same access to Getaways inventory. I didn't ask any other specific questions about II, but what I'm reading leads me to believe that Marriott will begin a similar deposit system to Starwood's. Definitely the inventory advantage goes to Points for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges.

- The telephone rep said our ownership works out to:
Barony 2BR Gold OF, 3,725 points (4,000 highest exchange in season)
SW 3BR Gold OV, 4,625 (4,950 highest exchange in season)
SW 3BR Plat OS, 5,000 (6,175 highest exchange in season)
(Of course I will get this verified through a working link or in writing before I rely on it. For now it's the basis for my thinking.)

As expected from the other posts here, it's impossible to equitably exchange back into my home resort in season. But with the 13-month booking advantage as Premier Plus our home resort usage should be as minimally impacted as possible. Our weeks seem to have some pretty good value for exchanging to other Marriotts, but as I expected, some resorts that we could have possibly gotten in II's system will now be a pipe dream. (As they will be if we don't convert, if the impact on inventory is what I think it will be.) I LOVE the features of being able to combine points for those pipe dreams, being able to bank and borrow, and being able to book stays of more or less than seven days.

- M/F don't become attached to Points value upon conversion but instead remain with Weeks. Of course some costs, such as the increased housekeeping mentioned already, will be impacted by the new system. And the m/f attached to Points purchases in the future will be structured differently.

- Points inflation is occurring for established higher-priced resorts, I have no doubt it will continue to happen as new resorts are rolled out.

- Weeks purchased on the external resale market after 6/20/10 will not be eligible, and as speculated this will impact the resale value of all weeks. That's a concern but it's not something that surprises me. Some of us have been saying all along that Marriott's history of not protecting resale value on the external market should have been a warning sign. And again, it's going to happen whether or not every existing owner converts, so I'm not going to worry about it. It appears resales-by-Marriott will continue to be treated exactly the same as every other direct purchase.

- Point requirements on the usage charts can and probably will re-allocate across the calendars. I thought I saw something in a link somewhere that said a 10% limit annually but now can't find it. IF that's relevant here I think that's a high percentage amount - I want to know more about this.

So far, advantage Points over Weeks for the way we use, and want to use, what we own. I'm a little bit more than cautiously optimistic.

 

[NJDave]

So it will cost $36,800 to buy 4,000 points, and $1,600 annual maintenance fee? And most high season weeks at good resorts will cost 4,000-6,000 points? Ouch.

It would cost over $3,000 a year to use the unit (assuming a 4% interest rate on a $36,800 purchase plus the $1,600 in maintenace fees and $169 Marriott fees). A 4,000 point unit can likely be rented cheaper and you would not have the commitment and risks and would have more flexibility.

I see why Marriott is losing their best salespeople. We should have all recognized it was coming by the departures.

 

[WelcomeHome]

Talk about Burning Bridges

I'm sorry to say, this new system sounds like a giant rip-off to me.

I'm a very positive person (I even defended Marriott on this thread and said Marriott built their reputation on customer satisfaction and would never screw their customer base because that would be suicidal) - well I guess I was wrong because this new program has NOTHING to do with satisfying customers -this is all about excessive GREED from Marriott's obviously pathetic & misguided marketing team to create excessive profit.

The only thing I can say is that in the end Marriott will be the one to pay for this - with a ruined reputation and a lame new marketing scheme that I suspect will fall flat on it's face. I find it insulting that Marriott has the nerve to even present this new program which is so obviosuly one-sided in their favor - how stupid do they think people are?

I'm all for Mariott enhancing profits by continuing to provide a quality product which offers genuine value to it's valued customers - but this is the opposite - this is a case of blind greed - and Marriott will get what they deserve!

Good Luck Marriott - you're gonna need it,
David

 

[hipslo]

-. But with the 14-month booking advantage as Premier Plus our home resort usage should be as minimally impacted as possible.

I thought premiere plus was 13 month advance booking, where do you get the 14 month?

 

[mjbaran]

Plain and simple example why this is not a good deal for ME.

I own 2 weeks at MCV (one plat, one gold; 2bdr with lockoff) total points value 4775.

In 2010 I have gone or planned one week each at MCV, MDS, MSE, and MSF. All utilizing my 2 MCV weeks.

Based on actual dates and room size this would cost me 7749 points under the new system.

Case closed, forget the points system.

 

[wsrobinson]

- The telephone rep said our ownership works out to:
Barony Gold OF, 3,725 points (4,000 highest exchange in season)
SW Gold OV, 4,625 (4,950 highest exchange in season)
SW Plat OS, 5,000 (6,175 highest exchange in season)(Of course I will get this verified through a working link or in writing before I rely on it. For now it's the basis for my thinking.)

The link just worked for me. Interesting that the link gives me a value of 5750 for SW Plat OS 2 BR. BTW 6175 is the point value for a 3 BR Plat OS week. 5000 is the point value for a 2 BR Plat OS week.

 

[bogey21]

Marriott’s reputation for treating owners equitably has been shattered.

As I have said many times before, this reputation is undeserved. Just harken back to when they changed the Rental and Sales Programs to the big time detriment of their owners?

At the time I said "Sell. You can't trust Marriott". Fortunately I followed my own advice.

George

 

[rthib]

Resale Market

So if you have no interest in trading, shouldn't this provide opportunities to buy cheaply at resorts that you want to stay?

 

[scrapngen]

Perhaps in the long run overall availability (especially for classic weeks owners) of high demand weeks even improves?

In the old system evryone was jumping on the best weeks in their season as soon as possible (12 or 13 months out).

For points owners peak weeks are relly expansive and lots of them probably decide to prefer two off-season weeks over one peak season week and there are more peak season weeks available to other owners.

IMO - those high demand weeks will now go exclusively to the PremierPlus Points people who have over 12000 points and can get anything they want in any number of days at 13 months out if it's available and can also put a request in for same. Therefore, they will always be first in the system for prime or any other weeks. The minute a prime week gets deposited into points, it will never be seen, but allocated straight to those requests. And if the requests are for partial weeks those prime days become swiss cheese and again only those high power people can rent indiv. days at 13 months out.

 

[ondeadlin]

The brilliant part about it (from a corporately evil definition of brilliant) is that if you regularly trade your week with II, you're essentially enrolled in the system whether you like it or not.

Marriott can pluck your week for the points system any time you deposit it.

BUT unless you pay to join, you can't have access to those weeks Marriott plucks.

It's everything for them, nothing for you, unless you join and give them your week (for less value than they're charging others for it points-wise, of course). II will quickly be filled with only the least desirable weeks. It's a huge issue for II, considering they're already vastly weakened from the DVC and SVN moves.

This is a particularly bad situation for owners at Frenchman's Cove, St. Kitt's, the Euro timeshares and Thailand owners. They're not allowed to join the new system, so they'll be stuck in the old system with vastly inferior inventory. And yet it appears Marriott will still be plucking the weeks the deposit.

 

[heathpack]

Wow, I am impressed...

... that Marriott seemed to make this points system bad for almost everyone. I would have thought they would have tried to make this an improvement for at least a substantial percentage of owners, who they could then count on going out and touting the marvelousness of this new system. But amazingly, it seems like most owners are negatively affected.

You have to believe points required to stay over time will slowly escalate. And given the precedent the Marriott has already set of points allocated to the owner being less than points required to book the same reservation, I would bet that the cost to book a reservation escalates faster than the points you receive for a deposit. Which means that over time, owners will have to buy points from Marriott if they want to use anything other than their deeded week. Which is probably Marriott's ultimate goal.

And it does not seem those points will have any intrinsic value. If you try to sell them the new owner will need to pay $2000 to join the system (or is that just resale weeks owners)??? If I understand this correctly, then there will essentially be no resale value for these points.

How in the heck will they sell this? I guess they will count on people not fully realizing all the nuances at first. But if this new system requires that an owner peiodically infuse more cash to be able to get a decent reservation- well, it seems that Marriott will have a lot of disgruntled owners and eventually lose the excellent reputation they currently enjoy. What a shame.

I can only hope this thing will be an utter flop- if it succeeds in any way, I'll bet Hyatt will try something similar.

This seems so bad to me that I wonder if I am really understanding it all correctly.

H

 

[PerryM]

Rest for 3 months...

Since this is Father's day..I'm allowing myself extra time on the computer this AM instead of lawn work as I should be doing

Let me say two things and I'll get off and let others have a chance...

1. I'm am so waiting to hear from PerryM!

2. I sold my Disney points to buy the Marriott at HHI. I got tired of trying to get in every summer and having no availability (except for those expensive Friday and Saturday nights). So while I still can go to HHI every summer if I choose, my ability to try different Marriott resorts seems to be diminished now unless I join this club..

Some of you will be dancing in the streets - I will NOT be commenting on the new Marriott system for the next 3 months here!

I know, I know, it's not Christmas yet but take it in the spirit it's given.

I am under contract to hold weekly Webinars on this topic for the next 3 months with an extension if things go right/wrong. (And of course it's not with Marriott)

These are FREE, with absolutely no obligation to buy squat. They are scheduled for Thursday nights at 8 PM CST; we'll see how it goes. If there's no interest, I'll be back...

If you are interested for either information or for entertainment purposes send an eMail to me at PerryM@Yahoo.com with the subject Marriott Webinar. I'll sign you up.

So it's "arriva-derchy, goodbye on this one topic for the next 3 months until my contract is up. If you have any burning questions just PM but I can NOT comment on this one topic for the next 3 months.

Have fun guys, I know I plan to...

 

[SueDonJ]

I thought premiere plus was 13 month advance booking, where do you get the 14 month?

Oh, sorry, typo. I'll change it. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[banquopack]

no transfer

I would guess the answer to that would be the same as before this program rolled out, which would be an emphatic NO! The previous points program did not transfer. Why would they transfer this one?

Seems to me they single handedly killed off both the resale market (or atleast tried to), and perhaps Redweek, et al. rentals as well????

From their fine print...

Trust Members. Upon the sale of an Interest, Exchange Company may require the payment of an initiation fee. (The current initiation fee is $200 per Interest with a $2,000 minimum initiation fee; however, Exchange Company reserves the right to adjust the amount of the initiation fee from time to time and to waive the initiation fee on a case-by-case basis in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion.) Until payment of any required initiation fee is received (or waived by Exchange Company), the owner of such Interest(s) will not be entitled to Base Plus Exchange Benefits or Exchange Benefits; however, payment of the initiation fee will allow access to the Base Plus Exchange Benefits. If the purchase of an Interest is not made from an Approved Broker, then the owner of such Interest(s) may not be entitled to Exchange Benefits in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion, even if the initiation fee is paid. Additional payments may be required to access the Exchange Benefits.

So it doesn't transfer, and there's going to be a pretty good fee I'm sure to get into the point program from a resale unit. Haven't made it through all the pages yet, ignore if you've already seen this

 

[caterina25]

My Aruba Surf Club oceanside 2 bedroom L/O platinum float is worth 4,075 MVCD points,according to the help line

 

[floyddl]

While I suppose this won't matter if weeks and points inventory are truly kept separate (unless allocation of reservations between the two pools is purely "first come first serve" as between points and weeks), but I have been playing around with a new calendar on the mvci website that tells you the first date on which you can call in to reserve under points if you qualify as premiere or premiere plus, at 13 months in advance, and, lo and behold, points owners get a couple of days jump on weeks owners in terms of the first date to call in.

The part that seems most unfair is it appears that a non-owner at a resort can book into another property at 13 months. In the Hilton system owners can book into their home resort for 3 months before a non-owner has an opportunity to book into it.

Where is the value of owning at any particular resort in this Marriott points system?

 

[floyddl]

The issue is that it may become more difficult to reserve the week you want where you own since you will be competing with points owner too.

In addition, Marriott can choose not to deposit "point weeks" in Interval and rent them instead.

The concern is that over time, it will be more difficult to book a prime week where you own and there will be less inventory available in Interval.

Exactly, that is why I like the Hilton program better. Owners get 3 months to book their home resort before non-owners get a chance.

 

[heatherw]

I have been reading all the posts with interest despite the fact that all my resorts are excluded from the new system, which seems odd as there will now be so few that are not in the scheme. This will not usually be a problem as we tend to go to them but I was hoping to get to the US next year and if II has a much lesser number to exchange to it may reduce our chances.

If anyone gets any further info that they can share on whether this is just a phasing in or is it the plan to remain separate I would welcome it.

Heather

 

[SueDonJ]

The link just worked for me. Interesting that the link gives me a value of 5750 for SW Plat OS 2 BR. BTW 6175 is the point value for a 3 BR Plat OS week. 5000 is the point value for a 2 BR Plat OS week.

Thanks, still not working for me. Maybe I'm just a moron. :hysterical:

Geeeze, for the first Sunday in months the family is getting together at one of my sister's houses instead of here and I have to leave. Marriott's timing stinks! I'll be back to this later ...

 

[SueDonJ]

Some of you will be dancing in the streets - I will NOT be commenting on the new Marriott system for the next 3 months here!

I know, I know, it's not Christmas yet but take it in the spirit it's given.

I am under contract to hold weekly Webinars on this topic for the next 3 months with an extension if things go right/wrong. (And of course it's not with Marriott)

These are FREE, with absolutely no obligation to buy squat. They are scheduled for Thursday nights at 8 PM CST; we'll see how it goes. If there's no interest, I'll be back...

If you are interested for either information or for entertainment purposes send an eMail to me at PerryM@Yahoo.com with the subject Marriott Webinar. I'll sign you up.

So it's "arriva-derchy, goodbye on this one topic for the next 3 months until my contract is up. If you have any burning questions just PM but I can NOT comment on this one topic for the next 3 months.

Have fun guys, I know I plan to...

Perry, I might be interested if you will have access to official Marriott info, as well as sanctions from Marriott to disseminate whatever info you'll be offering AND a guarantee that what you're offering can be considered official. ??? But if not, won't your webinar info be worth as much as every other bit of unofficial info?

 

[DanCali]

New Marriott system

The major component

• Your week is worth x points when you contribute it to the ‘trust.’

• Your week is worth y points when you want to purchase from the ‘trust.’

• Marriott gets to keep the difference between x and y and monetize it.

Example:

Marriott Grande Vista 3BR Platinum week.

When I contribute it to the trust, I receive 3,700 points.

When someone wants that week, it costs them 4,500 points.

The benefit to Marriott – the cash they can get when they sell the ‘bid-ask’ spread.


Marriott appears to have created a “points security” with a bid-ask spread . . . determined by Marriott. [Wonder why it can’t be marketed to NY residents? Securities laws?]


Another striking component

The “points security” the want you to trade your deeded week for has a one year life. After one year – worthless; you forfeit the points - no exchange for you.

Guess who benefits. Marriott.

Moreover, the one year ‘life’ of Marriott points effectively eliminates the ability to trade ‘up’ as you can never get enough points in one year to do so. I guess they will want cash on top of points.


Compare and contrast

Note this is very different from the II system that currently exists.

Relative value is determined by ‘trading power.”

One week goes in one week comes out. This is a zero sum game.

Not so the new Marriott system. Marriott has built a system with a bid ask spread, and aims to keep the spread for itself.


Am I a current owners damaged by this?

When I bought a Marriott timeshare, I purchased a bundle of rights. One of those was the deeded week.

To induce me to purchase that deeded week, there was an intangible asset associated with it - the ability to participate in a barter system created for the exchange of weeks. This intangible asset was decidedly attractive as few will want to stay exclusively in the resort they purchased.

Now, Marriott has negatively affected the ability to trade for other locations, notwithstanding that the program is voluntary and will run parallel to the existing II system. (That’s like saying the produce selection at the existing farmers market won’t be affected by establishing a competing farmers market across the street, assuming the farmers can’t be in two places at once.)

THE EXISTING BARTER SYSTEM AT II CAN ONLY BE NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY THE NEW PROGRAM.

The intangible asset associated with the barter system of the bundle of rights I purchased has been changed.


Marriott appears to believe it has the right (and may have as a matter of law) to change the system to essentially ‘skim’ a ‘bid-ask’ spread having a size of its choosing from the exchange process.

One element of the direct damages to existing owners (as a group) can readily be measured by the number of points (and cash, if the collect cash in lieu of points to trade up) associated with their participation. Every point or dollar from existing owners deeded weeks that accrue to the benefit of Marriott comes out of the hide of the existing owners.

Its still a zero sum game; Marriott has decided to big foot its way into skimming some of the value of your interest.


The consequential damages are less easily measured.

An argument could be made that the value of all deeded weeks has been negatively affected.

There is now more uncertainty (and more risk) associated with owning a Marriott timeshare.



Marriott’s reputation for treating owners equitably has been shattered.

Who sets the bid-ask spread? Marriott. Who benefits from the bid ask spread? Marriott. Does that sound like a conflict?

And what’s the relationship between II and Marriott going to be? Will II inventory be sucked into the Marriott system.

Maybe its time for the 500,000+ existing Marriott owners to set up their own exchange system.

Go to the sales presentations. Take their money. And tell them how you feel.

Excellent post!

 

[dougp26364]

As is my hisorty, I never toss the baby out with the bath water. I always look at past history and compare what I've done with my weeks account, then compare what I could have done if points had been available. Here's my personal results.

Ocean Pointe 3 bedroom silver season: 4,225 points

We use the master suite and typically trade the studio. We've recieved at a minimum 1 bedroom exchanges and once a 2 bedroom exchange. All have been for Willow Ridge in Branson with the exception of Mountain Valley Lodge next week.

This was an easy calculation. We would recieve 4,225 points for our 3 bedroom silver season ocean front unit. To researve the Nov. or Dec. weeks we've always used, it would take 5,225 points. We'd be short 1,000 points to reserve a smaller unit that we own. Needless to say, NONE of the exchanges we've made with our studio unit would be possible.

Grand Chateau 3 bedroom platinum season 4,625 points:

We've only owned for a couple of years. We've traded the Master Suite 2 bedroom portion for Waihoai 2 bedroom in March (5,875 points) and a Harbor Club at Harbor Town 2 bedroom unit in May (1,725 points). Totaly points would have been 7,600 points. Under the new system we'd have been 2975 points shy for making these exchanges.

The year previous we exchanged for a 2 bedroom Newport Coast Villa's March week (2,900 points) and a 1 bedroom Custom House May week (2,900 points). Total points for both exchanges 5,800 points. Again a deficit. This time 1,175 points

In short, the new system won't work for us in any way shape of form. Marriott gives to little for our weeks then charges to much in points for the exchanges. I have no intention of shelling out $695 to join a program that would provide historically less value than what I've recieved. I feel pretty safe in saying that we'll be sticking with the way things are with our ownership. To see a consitant deficit for every single year is both amazing and disheartening. I expected more from Marriott.