Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[floyddl]

if you only have 2000 Marriott Destination Vacatiion Club points
and
you only want (1) night in a studio at a MVC Resort

when can you make this reservation?
how many days out??

It seem like inside of 60 days.

 

[Y-ASK]

This points program is as expected, only good for Marriott, and bad for everyone else.

Well maybe and maybe not. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions just yet. For someone like me it might be a reasonable deal. I'm a resale owner with just one week: Harbour Lakes, Platnum which gives me 2550 points if I convert. This summer is probably the last year we are going to stay at my home resort and would probably either sell or try to rent for the next several years. We already own DVC pts and a Diamond Resorts 3 bdr at Grand Beach II and in my opinion my Grand Beach bought for $500 bucks is way better and larger than my Harbour Lakes that I bought for $7,500.00. I have always liked OceanWatch and have stayed there via rentals for two previous summers and I would like to go again on a regular bases.

So it seems that if I convert I could go just about every other year to OceanWatch during the summer months at a cost of about $2,100.00 (MF and Club fees) which seems to be a reasonably good price in the rental market right now. And with left over points I might be able to work in some golf time during the Fall/Winter months. I'm not happy that I have pay $1,000.00 more than a "Internal" owner but I can deal with it...

Y-ASK

What am I missing that would make this a bad deal for me?

 

[LAX Mom]

Summit Watch bronze week has no point value! According to Marriott it's of no value (points) in their new points program.

I wasn't expecting it to be worth very much, but just called and talked to a Marriott rep. It's a Marriott week that pays the same MF as a platinum week but Marriott assigns it no value under the new system!

 

[GregT]

Wow, I'm really really bummed.

I'm one of those people who was holding out hope that the new system would be innovative and creative, and be a win-win. I almost even bought an EOY at Ko Olina last week (to give me the Right to Rescind if I didn't like the program). I would definitely be rescinding.

No Open Season? (at this time, according to sales rep)

Bid-Ask spread to Marriott?

For my two 3BR fixed weeks at MOC, I get 10,225 points each -- when to book the identical unit is 11,800 points? That's a healthy spread. Let's say I decide to generate some points -- I contribute Week 24 Unit 4206 and get 10,225 points. Because I still want to come, but don't want to bring a friend, I book a 2BR OF in Lahaina Villas, Week 24 Unit 4208, right next door. I give Marriott 8,650 points for the 2BR. I net 1,565 points to use elsewhere, which I can't even book a studio anywhere.

So, let's say I decide I want to go to Frenchman's Cove in 2013. I'm going to pay $695 now and $199 per year until 2013 when I finally do the points trade? Not likely -- I'll just do a Direct Exchange in 2013.

I do think this is going to kill resale values -- which means we can buy resale properties for cheaper and then do Direct Exchanges with other owners, or use a different trading company. I'll start scouring eBay as disenchanted owners sell their Ko Olina units.

What a letdown.

 

[abdibile]

So it seems that if I convert I could go just about every other year to OceanWatch during the summer months at a cost of about $2,100.00 (MF and Club fees) which seems to be a reasonably good price in the rental market right now. And with left over points I might be able to work in some golf time during the Fall/Winter months. I'm not happy that I have pay $1,000.00 more than a "Internal" owner but I can deal with it...

Y-ASK

What am I missing that would make this a bad deal for me?

Have you taken into account the purchase price of your week?

If you owned at OceanWatch the annual costs would be way lower.

Would it perhaps make sense to sell the Orlando week and buy Ocean Watch resale saving the $1,500 for joining the program?

 

[ira g]

Rci Points

I never thought I would say this but RCI points are beginning to look a whole lot better than Marriott Vacation Club points.

 

[VacationPro]

Does somebody know how the Marriott Rewards Point conversions will work? Will the reward points received be based on the the Destination club points relinquished, or will it be based on the underlying week?

 

[abdibile]

Summit Watch bronze week has no point value!

It was clear that it had no value that is why it was by far the cheapest developer week ever sold at $1,500 including closing costs.

Buy where/when you want to use!

But it was a good week to arbitrage the Interval exchange system as long as this opportunity lasted (or is still continuing, time will tell)

 

[hipslo]

Say Goodbye to Benefit of 13 Month Booking Window for Weeks Owners?

I just got off the phone with one of the marriott "advisors". Apparently, while the NUMBER of units available to weeks and points owners, respectively, at 13 months will be tracked separately, and will depend on the number of owners in the relevant season who have converted, there will be NO allocation of inventory between the two groups, it will be purely first come/ first serve.

So, using mountainside (a sold out resort) as an example, even if only, say, 5% of owners convert, the number of platinum units available to points owners would be 5% of ALL platinum weeks. Then, 13 months prior to the first check in date of a prime week, ALL points owners who have at least premiere status, as well as all mutliple week mountainside owners who are making concurrent or consecutive reservations, can call in to reserve the prime week. At that point it is first come/ first serve, and the weeks owners and points owners are supposed to be on a level playing field.

This is a potential MASSIVE increase in the competition for prime weeks that did not previously apply at 13 months. If it is correct, it is the equivalent of competing, 13 months out, not only with multiple week owners at the home resort, but with ANY multiple week owner who wanted to trade into the home resort via II.

The person I spoke with didnt seem sure that this was correct, but she put me on hold, spoke with her supevisior, then came back and confirmed that this was, in fact, how it is going to work.

 

[GregT]

One other thing -- I bet their is a profit component in the MFs. $400 for 1,000 points? That's a Hawaii level for MFs -- wow!!

 

[5infam]

I don't like it, but over time - may not have a choice!!

I am used to points based programs because I own DVC - but because I am a resale owner, and have to buy into this thing, I look at it a lot differently.

I called in and spoke to a Marriott rep. He told me that basically, I get 3100 points for my garden view 1 bdr in Maui. That is the same amount of points for a mid-summer week, which is when I go, so that is a break even. If it were just left at that, then I wouldn't bother spending the money to join. I do use my Maui week for trades, but usually right back into Maui so I can go for 2 weeks EOY, instead of just 1 week per year

However, he told me that starting on June 22nd, Marriott will no longer sell weeks like we all own; but will only sell points. So, as a go forward basis, all new owners will be on points and we all will be on that old outdated system. I can already feel the depressed resale market sliding further downward. Keep in mind that I make that statement from a pure marketing stand point, assuming the sales people will be all over that in an effort to cut resales. New owners don't pay a fee to join the program, it is just part of the points they buy.

The only potential saving grace I see is that the Marriott Rep stated that for exchanges through II, the inventory will be completely separate than exchanges made through the points system. He said if you are on points, you get a separate II number. He told me that if I do nothing, then when I exchange with II, everything will be as it is today and the inventory available will only come from other legacy week owners like myself. The "sales pitch" was that over time, all new owners will be points, so I won't have access to their deposits - and as legacy weeks owners buy into the points system, their trades will also no longer be available to me. Therefore, eventually, my Marriott trade options will be less and less and I will be left with the few folks that never converted.

I started the last paragraph saying this could actually be a saving grace - and that is because I believe that for what I own and wish to trade (back into Maui), that developer weeks are pretty much sold out. So, hopefully that means not very many points owners. Now, that theory could be blown out of the water if the majority of weeks owners buy into the program - or if there are no home resort priorities, etc. - but I have not seen any firm info on that yet.

So if anyone has an answer or if I am way off here, please feel free to chime in. I am trying to figure this out like the rest of us!!

 

[abdibile]

I net 1,565 points to use elsewhere, which I can't even book a studio anywhere.

With that "change" you can book 25 days in a Studio in off-season in Branson! Or even 12 days in a 2 BR

 

[ira g]

Who is going to pay for the increased MF's for the cleaning fees which could be up to seven times per week based on a potential daily reservation?

 

[abdibile]

Does somebody know how the Marriott Rewards Point conversions will work? Will the reward points received be based on the the Destination club points relinquished, or will it be based on the underlying week?

For legacy owners it will be based on the underlying week:

"An Eligible Member who did not have the ability to trade the use of their Interest in a particular Use Year for Marriott Rewards points prior to enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program shall receive the amount of Marriott Rewards points for each traded Interest as specified in the applicable Resort Rules & Regulations for the resort where the Interest is located."

 

[PamK]

I just got off the phone with one of the marriott "advisors". Apparently, while the NUMBER of units available to weeks and points owners, respectively, at 13 months will be tracked separately, and will depend on the number of owners in the relevant season who have converted, there will be NO allocation of inventory between the two groups, it will be purely first come/ first serve.

So, using mountainside (a sold out resort) as an example, even if only, say, 5% of owners convert, the number of platinum units available to points owners would be 5% of ALL platinum weeks. Then, 13 months prior to the first check in date of a prime week, ALL points owners who have at least premiere status, as well as all mutliple week mountainside owners who are making concurrent or consecutive reservations, can call in to reserve the prime week. At that point it is first come/ first serve, and the weeks owners and points owners are supposed to be on a level playing field.

This is a potential MASSIVE increase in the competition for prime weeks that did not previously apply at 13 months. If it is correct, it is the equivalent of competing, 13 months out, not only with multiple week owners at the home resort, but with ANY multiple week owner who wanted to trade into the home resort via II.

The person I spoke with didnt seem sure that this was correct, but she put me on hold, spoke with her supevisior, then came back and confirmed that this was, in fact, how it is going to work.

This to me is the biggest downside to the new system. It will become harder to get onto your OWN property than it ever has before. Availability will be the issue. It will be a problem at both 12 and 13 months out.

 

[Twinkstarr]

This to me is the biggest downside to the new system. It will become harder to get onto your OWN property than it ever has before. Availability will be the issue.

This will be a real bummer for people who own only 1 week at places like Grande Ocean, Oceanwatch etc in plat. season.

 

[trgow]

One other thing -- I bet their is a profit component in the MFs. $400 for 1,000 points? That's a Hawaii level for MFs -- wow!!

MF of $0.40/point may not be too bad.... Based on the MFs and points assigned for my 2 weeks, I'm paying $0.47/point. I'm sure there will be a wide range of $/point in this supposed "fair" system. I'd love to know what $MF/point others are paying IF they join the new system.

 

[abdibile]

This is a potential MASSIVE increase in the competition for prime weeks that did not previously apply at 13 months. If it is correct, it is the equivalent of competing, 13 months out, not only with multiple week owners at the home resort, but with ANY multiple week owner who wanted to trade into the home resort via II.

But owners of three weeks or 2 lockoffs should still have a head start over points owners as they can call in 13 months before the first checkin date of a series of consecutive reservations.

 

[Y-ASK]

Have you taken into account the purchase price of your week?

If you owned at OceanWatch the annual costs would be way lower.

Would it perhaps make sense to sell the Orlando week and buy Ocean Watch resale saving the $1,500 for joining the program?

I totally agree with "Buy where you want to stay" but I bought thinking that I really wanted to stay there. Then I was able to stay at Cypress Harbour before I ever got a chance to stay at Harbour Lakes and I was some what disappointed after my 1st Harbour Lakes stay when I compared the two.

I really don't think I could get any where close to the $7,500.00 I paid via resale and the resale prices for a platnum Oceanwatch are all well over $10,000.00. And now with the points system I can see that my Harbour Lakes week is probably worth signficantly less.

Maybe I could just do the conversion and hope that an Oceanwatch Platnum week price falls far enough that I can pick up a week for under $7,000.00 in the next few years. Then I could use the points system to try other resorts that I normally wouldn't go to...

Y-ASK

 

[abdibile]

One other thing -- I bet their is a profit component in the MFs. $400 for 1,000 points? That's a Hawaii level for MFs -- wow!!

It should be the average of all weeks in the trust.

If we assume that Marriott predominatly owned gold and silver weeks with a poor MF/points value ratio this could be correct.

 

[tombo]

I wonder if someone could answer a question for me.

There seems to be a lot of concern about how much the week is worth and how much it will be to go to your home club.

For example, my MountainSide week is 5,350 Plat but ranges from 4,450 to 6,900 in season...

Still, I think we have to think about electing points as an enhancement. Points aren't for owners who just go to their home club every year - it's for owners who want to go for a few nights here and there or try the new Explorer program or want to pay less fees.

If you do want to go to your home club, owners have the best of both worlds. I can book the week the way I always have in the home club week pool - a pool that is separate from points exchangers.

So... I'm getting 7 nights as a home club owner for less than someone trying to get the same week using points. And, if I do want to try other clubs or go for a couple of nights to Vegas or something like that, that's a new option which I never had before.

I think it makes sense to see how many points you get and how many points your week is worth, but you would never use points to get 7 days back at your home resort. That's just not what they're for...

So if Marriott in their infinite wisdom determines that your week is worth 5350 even though you can book weeks at your home resort weeks worth up to 6900 points, then everyone needs to be happy because you can use your home resort without worrying about being shortchanged on the points you receive for your deposited week at your home resort? That is crazy. Marriott is telling you what a week at your resort in your season is worth, yet they want to give you less points than Marriott says it is worth.

If my week and season currently allows me to reserve a week at my home resort that is worth according to Marriott 6900 points, then that means using Marriotts own points ratings that I should be able to exchange for any 6900 point week within the Marriott point system. If what I own is 6900 points for Sally Jones to exchange for, and what John Doe deposits will cost me 6900 points, I should have enough points to exchange for John Doe's week internally since Sally paid 6900 points to stay in the week I deposited. Marriott is making money shortchanging me on points, Sally on points, and John Doe too.

If Marriott has allocated points between resorts equitably, then they are telling owners what each resort/week/season is worth. They are charging more points to exchangers to stay in a week than they are giving to the owner who deposited the exact same week into the points system. Marriott keeps all of the extra points and owners don't have enough points each year to trade for a like week at an identically points priced resort. Nothing is fair or equitable about the way they have set up the points.

 

[hipslo]

But owners of three weeks or 2 lockoffs should still have a head start over points owners as they can call in 13 months before the first checkin date of a series of consecutive reservations.

Points owners can do the same, and can do so in any daily increments that they desire. Also, I believe the points inventory opens each tuesday for the following week, a couple of days earlier than the thurs or fri that weeks inventory opens.

 

[floyddl]

Wow, I'm really really bummed.

I'm one of those people who was holding out hope that the new system would be innovative and creative, and be a win-win. I almost even bought an EOY at Ko Olina last week (to give me the Right to Rescind if I didn't like the program). I would definitely be rescinding.

No Open Season? (at this time, according to sales rep)

Bid-Ask spread to Marriott?

For my two 3BR fixed weeks at MOC, I get 10,225 points each -- when to book the identical unit is 11,800 points? That's a healthy spread. Let's say I decide to generate some points -- I contribute Week 24 Unit 4206 and get 10,225 points. Because I still want to come, but don't want to bring a friend, I book a 2BR OF in Lahaina Villas, Week 24 Unit 4208, right next door. I give Marriott 8,650 points for the 2BR. I net 1,565 points to use elsewhere, which I can't even book a studio anywhere.

So, let's say I decide I want to go to Frenchman's Cove in 2013. I'm going to pay $695 now and $199 per year until 2013 when I finally do the points trade? Not likely -- I'll just do a Direct Exchange in 2013.

I do think this is going to kill resale values -- which means we can buy resale properties for cheaper and then do Direct Exchanges with other owners, or use a different trading company. I'll start scouring eBay as disenchanted owners sell their Ko Olina units.

What a letdown.

Unfortunately Marriott gets to grab your great buy on EBAY on ROFR.

 

[wuv pooh]

You are exactly right. The point system appears to only benefit Marriott and harms most existing owners.

I don't see how this system benefits Marriott at all. There are still the same number of points.

They give you 800 points for joining - so that is a wash
They get the fee for running the exchange system - they can get that anyway by replacing II.

Are you saying that they will somehow "steal" weeks to use for themselves? How does that work, unless the system causes fewer people to reserve time at the resorts.

Fewer people using weekend nights so that they can be rented 60 days out? Seems like a risky strategy if they do not rent.

What the system does is show the true value of the weeks that everyone purchased. A platinum week is not a platinum week. We at TUG already know that and take advantage of it

By definition every Platinum owner can not get the points for the highest Platinum week in the points system. Those that want the week will now pay for it instead of getting 'lucky' through II. We have moved from rationing by lottery and getting up at 9am to rationing by points. That is fairer for the majority of owners.

The sweet spot is now for people who can drive to resorts and use Sun-Thurs nights. It seems like the initial DVC program with Weekend points way too high compared to weekdays. There will be a big shift to Sun-Thur stays. Will be interesting to see if the new system can provide the demand.

The true value appears correct to me. I can now trade my Platinum Manor Club for 4 days Platinum Grande Ocean Ocean Front. Three years ago I traded my Harbor Lake Gold for a full week Platinum Grande Ocean Ocean Front I will not get those unfair exchanges in the points system

Points owner will get first shot at the inventory, so that is a big inducement to join. Also borrowing and banking gives me the flexibility to take a nice trip if I want.

I will probably join the system to obtain the flexibility. I usually only need a 1bd, but would like to reserve 3bd for special occassions. Right now it is very difficult to get a 3bd through II. I can also get more that 7 nights for my weeks by staying Sun-Thurs, which I will do.

 

[GregT]

Unfortunately Marriott gets to grab your great buy on EBAY on ROFR.

That is indeed a risk -- I think it will also depend on how sold-out the property was -- if Ko Olina has lots of units in the pool, then Marriott may not want yet another....

Thanks!