Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[dougp26364]

DRI gets $2999 to "rejoin" THE Club if the underlying ownership (non-trust) is transferred/resold.

Needless to say resale values aren't impacted favorably. I doubt Marriotts will be either. Marriott was once one of the handful that held reasonable resale value but those days are long gone and about to get worse.

This is true but, with DRI, you can still use your deeded week. With DRI if you buy trust based points, you can still reserve within that trust without paying a joiner fee at all. As I read this, with Marriott if a trust based owner sells their trust based points, the new owner can't use those points UNTIL the transfer/joiner fee of $2,000 has been paid. Again I say WOW!

 

[pacheco18]

And cruise.com isn't the best deal out there -- LOL

 

[timeos2]

They are at the head of the line

An Owner Services rep also confirmed - no changes with II if you don't convert... You deposit the week you reserve and that inventory is separate.

They did try to get me to buy more points to get the trades I want with points though.

The language in the other areas discussing II trades indicates that while the old system allowing individual members to make deposits to II will remain intact as well as the ability to request - including the Marriott priority- the actual weeks available are likely to drop as Marriott Points steps in as one of those priority blessed users & stands ready and willing to take the deposit as soon as it arrives. You are now competing with an entity that has a use for virtually ALL deposits and the ability - points based exchanges - to take that inventory for use.

While the process hasn't changed it appears the availability of inventory may be highly impacted (as in it's gone) in many cases.

 

[NJDave]

An Owner Services rep also confirmed - no changes with II if you don't convert... You deposit the week you reserve and that inventory is separate.

The issue is that it may become more difficult to reserve the week you want where you own since you will be competing with points owner too.

In addition, Marriott can choose not to deposit "point weeks" in Interval and rent them instead.

The concern is that over time, it will be more difficult to book a prime week where you own and there will be less inventory available in Interval.

 

[abdibile]

While the process hasn't changed it appears the availability of inventory may be highly impacted (as in it's gone) in many cases.

This should be true for Starwood under their current system right? Probably even worse as Starwood controls all II deposits, not just II deposits of SVN members (for Marriott it currently looks like classic weeks owners still have control of what dates they deposit into II)

But I still see lots of good Starwood weeks on II, so I do not expect it to be much worse with Marriott.

 

[lovearuba]

Incentive to sign

I am surprised that Marriott is not allowing owners to sign up for free. Given what we know about marmots practice of devaluing points, truly why would you sign up. You are signing up to pay for something marriiott previosly told you was part of your whole vacation experience. Now you sign up and pay and they lock you into allowing them to change the rules. They can devalue the point system and make it difficult to use your week and when you no longer want to participate you have to pay to get out. This is one sided and their lawyers carefully worked on that

 

[DanCali]

The language in the other areas discussing II trades indicates that while the old system allowing individual members to make deposits to II will remain intact as well as the ability to request - including the Marriott priority- the actual weeks available are likely to drop as Marriott Points steps in as one of those priority blessed users & stands ready and willing to take the deposit as soon as it arrives.

...unless I condition my week's arrival on getting the exchange I want - using Request First.

 

[hipslo]

While I suppose this won't matter if weeks and points inventory are truly kept separate (unless allocation of reservations between the two pools is purely "first come first serve" as between points and weeks), but I have been playing around with a new calendar on the mvci website that tells you the first date on which you can call in to reserve under points if you qualify as premiere or premiere plus, at 13 months in advance, and, lo and behold, points owners get a couple of days jump on weeks owners in terms of the first date to call in.

Actually, playing around further with the calendar, this seems to vary by month and based on whether check in day is fri, sat or sun. Havent been able to figure out the logic or pattern behind it yet. Perhaps its just a glitch in the website?

 

[1965]

The Marriott representaive just called me back, he gave me wrong information, you can bank your Marriott Points into the next use year.They do not expire after one year
they only expire after one year
if you do not bank them

 

[DanCali]

Actually, playing around further with the calendar, this seems to vary by month and based on whether check in day is fri, sat or sun. Havent been able to figure out the logic or pattern behind it yet. Perhaps its just a glitch in the website?

OK - I read through all the posts here late last night and early this morning, so I may have missed this due to lack of sleep... Can you lease recap:

Who gets to be premier or premier plus in the new system?

What are their 13 month booking rules?

Isn't "13 months" defined the same for weeks an points? If not, what about "12 months" then?

 

[wsrobinson]

The Marriott representaive just called me back, he gave me wrong information, you can bank your Marriott Points into the next use year.They do not expire after one year
they only expire after one year
if you do not bank them

I am more intrigued now.

 

[Stefa]

the actual weeks available are likely to drop as Marriott Points steps in as one of those priority blessed users & stands ready and willing to take the deposit as soon as it arrives. You are now competing with an entity that has a use for virtually ALL deposits and the ability - points based exchanges - to take that inventory for use.

While the process hasn't changed it appears the availability of inventory may be highly impacted (as in it's gone) in many cases.

I'm a little confused. How can Marriott just take the weeks our of II? Are you saying they would just take the high demand weeks and replace (exchange) them with a dog week from the point system?

 

[ondeadlin]

The thing that strikes me most is what an INCREDIBLE screwing this is to everyone who bought developer. After paying two, three and even five times more than what their same weeks cost retail, MVCI won't even enroll their weeks for free ... nope ... all they get is a small break over what resale buyers pay. Incredible.

And then, of course, they offer everyone wholesale prices for their weeks and jury rig the system so they can steal the best weeks deposited with II. It's brilliantly and brazenly indifferent to their previous purchasers.

I hope all the folks on there who have blindly sung Marriott's praises for so long take notice. They could care less about developer purchasers.

This system is guaranteed to do only three things: 1. Make more money for Marriott; 2. Destroy resale values of all but the most intrinsically valuable weeks (read: ski weeks and beach weeks, but probably not Hawaii because of the MFS); 3. Destroy owner loyalty from anyone who bought prior to this system being implemented.

I'd been waiting until the change was announced before buying Hyatt points, just in case Marriott surprised me and put together a good system. What a sucker I was to even think it could happen ...

 

[dougp26364]

Hmmmm..

7 night cruise on the Radiance of the Seas to Alaska for 2 people in an outside cabin in July 2010 is 2650 vacation club points......

That same trip on cruise.com is $1509 for two people......hmmmmmmmm

I would suspect that if you check into that a little further, you'll find that's 2,650 points per person based on double occupancy. So the total number of points may very well be 5,300 points.

 

[wsrobinson]

OK - I read through all the posts here late last night and early this morning, so I may have missed this due to lack of sleep... Can you lease recap:

Who gets to be premier or premier plus in the new system?

What are their 13 month booking rules?

Isn't "13 months" defined the same for weeks an points? If not, what about "12 months" then?

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=930089&postcount=8

 

[dougp26364]

The language in the other areas discussing II trades indicates that while the old system allowing individual members to make deposits to II will remain intact as well as the ability to request - including the Marriott priority- the actual weeks available are likely to drop as Marriott Points steps in as one of those priority blessed users & stands ready and willing to take the deposit as soon as it arrives. You are now competing with an entity that has a use for virtually ALL deposits and the ability - points based exchanges - to take that inventory for use.

While the process hasn't changed it appears the availability of inventory may be highly impacted (as in it's gone) in many cases.

I'm glad we own at resorts we enjoy. We'll still exchange our Lock-off units thorugh Interval and maybe do request first exchanges with the master suite at MGC. We'll just have to expand our searches outside of the Marriott family.

Right now, I'm glad I don't have all my eggs in one basket. I never thought I'd see the day when Marriott moved themselves out of my favorite timeshare developer slot and onto the back burner.

 

[l2trade]

Sounds like they have worked a deal with II to pull non-points weeks deposits out of II using points to fulfill points requests. THAT is a new twist and one I haven't seen before from a points system. That really does the the potential to hurt inventory availability for "traditional" weeks II members as it is yet another priority claim on incoming deposits from any Marriott resort.

I'll admit this idea had not occurred to me before and if I were a weeks owner trading for Marriotts inII it would be very troublesome. Negative #2 so far.

This is fascinating! IMHO, I see both Starwood and Marriott took very different approaches to effectively achieve essentially the same thing with II. Non-SVN Starwood owners can only exchange with their seasonal placeholder assignment, which represents average trade value of all floating weeks they own. Non-Points enrolled Marriott owners will still get to trade with specific reservations and THINK they are getting the trade value that represents that specific week.

In both systems, the developer and II are balancing the inventory books in the back end. Starwood showed owners what they were really up to. Marriott learned from Starwood owner outrage and lawsuit threats. Marriott and II are cleverly masking what they agreed to. Once II has usage rights from an owner (i.e. - deposit or exchange completed), I believe they have the legal right to negotiate/exchange/balance out those weeks with alternate inventory from the affiliate developer. Marriott and II devised an approach which I think does the same thing as Starwood, yet adds enough levels of abstraction from individual accounts that the threat of a lawsuit is significantly diminished and would be so much harder to investigate, prove and quantify damages. Starwood could learn a thing or two from it's more sophisticated and marketing savvy rival.

IMHO, so clever, indeed! Brilliant job Marriott! I agree this is a big negative for informed owners and Tuggers like me. However, most typical owners won't have a clue what just happened and will likely buy into the 'fairness' pitch of the new point system.

 

[hipslo]

What are their 13 month booking rules?

Isn't "13 months" defined the same for weeks an points? If not, what about "12 months" then?

there is a new calendar on the mvci website that shows first date when certain points owners can call in 13 months in advance, and it does not seem to align with the rules for weeks owners. sometimes points gets a jump of a day or two, and sometimes weeks gets a jump of a day or two, without any ryhme or reason (at least not that I have yet been able to discern).

 

[timeos2]

It is all above board but impacts weeks owners that trade

I'm a little confused. How can Marriott just take the weeks our of II? Are you saying they would just take the high demand weeks and replace (exchange) them with a dog week from the point system?

Marriott has a published chart of points values for weeks to be used from II. So if an owner deposits week X and it is worth Y points all Marriott Points has to do is say to II "Use "Y" points from our massive deposit of YYYYY points to take that week reservation. Done. Week gone. They used their priority in advance of the Marriott owner priority to grab the use time.

Since the agreement is in place and the values known there is nothing wrong with the move. They are simply using the system to claim a week from II for the value stated. Now it is in the Marriott Points system inventory - not II anymore - and Marriott Points members can utilize it while the week for week II trader has to keep waiting for a deposit that doesn't get claimed by Marriott Points as a trade.

Especially for the prime demand times there is no reason for Marriott to wait for a points member to actually request the week as they have the needed points banked and it will almost certainly be claimed by ponts members if its available to them. I see the inventory that gets through to individual traders with II shrinking fast in the already limited prime times.

 

[David10225]

I would suspect that if you check into that a little further, you'll find that's 2,650 points per person based on double occupancy. So the total number of points may very well be 5,300 points.

You might be right, but the Marriott website says..

*Prices are per available outside cabin for two adults, double occupancy.
Owner is responsible for paying port fees and taxes seperately.

 

[wsrobinson]

Does "If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program." mean that the Silver BB Oceanside week I bought last night on eBay for $1.25 is eligible??? Or will they simply execute ROFR??

 

[l2trade]

I believe the new Marriott system will make my II exchange upgrade strategies more difficult, but not impossible. I do not like these changes. All I can do is work harder to get the best exchanges or vote with my dollars. I was leaning strongly towards purchasing a Marriott resale. Now, I will wait and feel no rush whatsoever. When II becomes more trouble than it is worth, I will cancel my membership.

At least Marriott gave me a Father's Day I will never forget!

 

[Stefa]

Marriott has a published chart of points values for weeks to be used from II. So if an owner deposits week X and it is worth Y points all Marriott Points has to do is say to II "Use "Y" points from our massive deposit of YYYYY points to take that week reservation. Done. Week gone. They used their priority in advance of the Marriott owner priority to grab the use time.

Since the agreement is in place and the values known there is nothing wrong with the move. They are simply using the system to claim a week from II for the value stated. Now it is in the Marriott Points system inventory - not II anymore - and Marriott Points members can utilize it while the week for week II trader has to keep waiting for a deposit that doesn't get claimed by Marriott Points as a trade.

Especially for the prime demand times there is no reason for Marriott to wait for a points member to actually request the week as they have the needed points banked and it will almost certainly be claimed by ponts members if its available to them. I see the inventory that gets through to individual traders with II shrinking fast in the already limited prime times.

Thanks for the clarification. Since I tend to travel in the off season, I am hopeful of still getting decent trades through II.

 

[ada903]

Can someone please copy-paste the table with points value assigned to each week? I don't own Marriott so I can't log into the Marriott website to see the value of the weeks, but I am very curious to see it, since I have been looking into a resale purchase lately. Thanks.

 

[LAX Mom]

I'm not impressed with Marriott's new point system and won't convert. However, this new program seems much too complicated to sell to Mr & Mrs Tourist at a timeshare presentation while they are on vacation. How can Marriott possibly explain all of this info in a 90 minute presentation?

What happens if you purchase from Marriott and want to sell your points in the future? Can a resale buyer of points participate in the new system or are they back to a weeks system?

I would never purchase something from Marriott that couldn't be sold on the resale market when I decided to sell.