Hyatt Portfolio Points Program

[dsmrp]

I went to an owners update today in San Antonio. We own two weeks both purchased on the resale market many years back. One a diamond and another a low point every other year.

The presentation was well done and the sales rep was very convincing. We gave it serious thought but ultimately decided not buy into the hpp program at this time. I share a few observations. Determining fact from fiction is often difficult in these types of presentations, and clarification and input by others would be helpful.

1. I was told that hpp points are now up to 21.10 a point. I was given options to first buy 1100, 1000, and then 660 points at 20 a point. When I told them I had purchased resale weeks years ago, they checked their computer and offered me a 1000 package at 16.81 a point, which honestly seemed like a good deal. I'm curious if others have been offered below retail rates? And if so at what terms?

2. They said that I had the option to move my hrc weeks into portfolio at the begining of every year. I would pay the hrc week maintenance fee which in my case is very low at 1250 per week and a 137 transfer fee, which would still be significantly lower than paying the hpp maintenance fee on the same amount of points. If this is the case why would anyone buy HPP outright ?

3. They explained various features of the hpp programs. Points good for three years, longer reservation periods, options to book one day at time, no booking or split week fees for portfolio reservations, and access to portfolio weeks. Sounded very promising. For the right price I think I would do it.

4. I asked about signing away my 1300 point every other week to them for free as part of the deal. They didn't want it..not even for free. What does one do with these types of weeks? (I purchased it before I found kal's very helpful website).

We went to an owner's update on our first ever stay at a Hyatt resort (exchange into Highlands Inn). The hybrid offer was the same, approx $16K for 1000 portfolio points.
Was told to have my 2000 pt Pinon unit participate in HPP we would need to buy 1/2 more of our 2000 pts as HPP points. I forget what the maintenance fee was per HPP point, but probably about 50% more than my Pinon MF/point cost. Also the Hawaii-Maui resort is not included in the portfolio group of resorts.

There's a trust behind the portfolio program; and sales said HRC had seeded it with a good number of units, so not depending upon owner participation for units. I don't know how accurate that is, or whether these are low season units. Anyway it sounded fairly similar to DC program. I can see where HPP would be beneficial to HRC owners who own multiple use weeks at different times of year. But entry price is pretty high, and with uncertainty of MVC changing existing HRC and HPP, there's no reason to buy in IMO.

 

[Sapper]

We went to an owner's update on our first ever stay at a Hyatt resort (exchange into Highlands Inn). The hybrid offer was the same, approx $16K for 1000 portfolio points.
Was told to have my 2000 pt Pinon unit participate in HPP we'd would need to buy 1/2 more of our 2000 pts as HPP points. I forget what the maintenance fee was per HPP point, but probably about 50% more than my Pinon MF/point cost. Also the Hawaii-Maui resort is not included in the portfolio group of resorts.

There's a trust behind the portfolio program; and sales said HRC had seeded it with a good number of units, so not depending upon owner participation for units. I don't know how accurate that is, or whether these are low season units. Anyway it sounded fairly similar to DC program. I can see where HPP would be beneficial to HRC owners who own multiple use weeks at different times of year. But entry price is pretty high, and with uncertainty of MVC changing existing HRC and HPP, there's no reason to buy in IMO.

Yes, there is an underlying trust. However, that trust was built using the unit weeks which they were unable to sell when unit weeks were being sold. So, lots of silver week Windward Point in Key West. Not much Sunset. Sales will tell you there is availability at Sunset because technically, there is. However, the reality of you getting one of the six units is slim. We have seen some locations (like Hawaii) which are not part of HPP show up in the point program, so owners are depositing their weeks.

Agree though, entry cost is high, maintenance fees are high per point, and as you point out the uncertainty with MVC all seem to lead to limited participation.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Those HPP sales pitch sessions are conducted in individual rooms with a closed door. They definitely don't want any conversations to be overheard by other potential customers.

It would definitely be fun to have those discussions held at a desk in an open room. Any loud conversations could definitely be broadcast to others. The small room approach is better suited to applying a hot lamp to the would-be victim.

When I did the SDO presentation it was in a big room with lots of people they were very anxious to get me out of there quickly when I started to pull up eBay auctions... and was proudly wearing my TUG shirt....LOL

 

[Kal]

Keep reading, the poster stated that they went down to $16.81 for a 1000 point package.

Supply and demand curve. Big supply, no demand gets you a 15% discount from roll-out pricing.

 

[bdh]

Yes, there is an underlying trust. However, that trust was built using the unit weeks which they were unable to sell when unit weeks were being sold. So, lots of silver week Windward Point in Key West. Not much Sunset. Sales will tell you there is availability at Sunset because technically, there is. However, the reality of you getting one of the six units is slim. We have seen some locations (like Hawaii) which are not part of HPP show up in the point program, so owners are depositing their weeks.

Based on info from various reliable sources, the Hyatt Trust has 33 weeks at Sunset Harbor, 51 weeks at Beach House and over 2,000 weeks at Windward. So possible to get a Sunset HPP reservation, but not probable. There are some HRC Sunset owners that have bought into HPP and annually deposit their deeded Sunset Week into HPP - while that does increase the number of potential HPP reservations at Sunset, the knowledge base of the HPP owner typically isn't savvy enough on how to use the Hyatt reservation system to obtain a Sunset reservation.

 

[IslandTime]

Good. As an owner at Sunset I hope it stays like this. With my one HRC week I was able to get three weeks in a studio this year for the exact dates I requested via wait list. I'm currently wait listed for a week in Maui in a one bedroom next year. If it doesn't come through before my HRPP ends in January, we'll stay in a hotel in Hawaii and we'll happily stay at Sunset next year.

 

[Sapper]

Based on info from various reliable sources, the Hyatt Trust has 33 weeks at Sunset Harbor, 51 weeks at Beach House and over 2,000 weeks at Windward. So possible to get a Sunset HPP reservation, but not probable. There are some HRC Sunset owners that have bought into HPP and annually deposit their deeded Sunset Week into HPP - while that does increase the number of potential HPP reservations at Sunset, the knowledge base of the HPP owner typically isn't savvy enough on how to use the Hyatt reservation system to obtain a Sunset reservation.

Thank you for the more accurate numbers bdh!

 

[Kal]

Based on info from various reliable sources, the Hyatt Trust has 33 weeks at Sunset Harbor, 51 weeks at Beach House and over 2,000 weeks at Windward. So possible to get a Sunset HPP reservation, but not probable. There are some HRC Sunset owners that have bought into HPP and annually deposit their deeded Sunset Week into HPP - while that does increase the number of potential HPP reservations at Sunset, the knowledge base of the HPP owner typically isn't savvy enough on how to use the Hyatt reservation system to obtain a Sunset reservation.

That's 33 weeks out of 2100 total (or <2%) and those are in less than desirable time periods.

 

[Texx]

Supply and demand curve. Big supply, no demand gets you a 15% discount from roll-out pricing.

Looks like you can get an even bigger discount on the secondary market at the moment.

 

[bradj]

The Owner's Update is carefully designed to maximize spin. Unless an owner does solid homework you will hear what you want to hear. Need to carefully listen to every word. They are targeting HRC owners to buy in at the minimum and provide their unit into the Portfolio. They have little or no expectation that HRC owners will purchase 2200 points @ $20/point. The minimum is 660 points @ $20/point. Higher points move you up in their Tier levels.

Buyers hear the story that you can get just about any reservation you want. Wrong. Getting on the Request List is NOT a confirmed reservation. Specific to Sunset Harbor this is a sure way to get into an extremely difficult resort. I mentioned that the Portfolio only had 20 unit-weeks for the entire year (out of 2000+ total). They confirmed that fact but said there would be LOTS more being available. The implication is the HPP will have access to the HRC inventory. IF HPP and HRC share a common single Wait List, that will put pressure on HRC availability. We will have to see how that plays out as the Rules call out two specific and separate Lists. They say the HPP has "Priority" but that's definitely Timeshare Huckster speak.

The HRC will have no access to new resorts so they are making a big push to roll out something new for HPP members. See the thread on the new Key West resort.

Buy back Portfolio points: Hyatt says they will buy back points, but the rules say it's at Hyatt's discretion but don't mention the price. Unlike selling resale, Hyatt is the sole option.

Maintenance Fees: For the first 12 weeks of the year you can elect to move your unit into the HPP for one year. You continue to pay MF on your HRC unit, but also pay MF on the HPP points you own. Today that MF is $0.83/point (660 points = $547).

Many owners exiting the update hold the Portfolio Program in extremely low regard.

Potential Impact to HRC: Effect on the HRC Wait List.

I'm already having difficulty with my Request/Wait list. I've been booking 18 moths out for years with success until now. I was overlooked on my week 44 request for 2019 and now have not filled my week 3 request for 2020. This never used to happen. My requests have always been at the front of the line and filled until now. For some unexplainable reason, my place in line gets moved back so I'm not in front any more. No one will give me a reasonable explanation. In the past Hyatt would tell you where you were in line on a request list and even how many HRPPs had not been reserved. Now everything is secret! Change of Hyatt ownership, first to II and then to Marriott has mucked up the program,too. No customer service #. No live person will answer questions. This is not working like the Hyatt product that I originally purchased. I also wonder if the Portfolio program is compromising the Request list order. No one at Hyatt/Marriott will give me any answers. What used to be a great product, ain't no more. If the points/request list doesn't work anymore, after 20 years I'm probably gonna bail and try to salvage some loss. This is no longer the product I bought.

 

[Kal]

...1. I was told that hpp points are now up to 21.10 a point. I was given options to first buy 1100, 1000, and then 660 points at 20 a point. When I told them I had purchased resale weeks years ago, they checked their computer and offered me a 1000 package at 16.81 a point, which honestly seemed like a good deal. I'm curious if others have been offered below retail rates? And if so at what terms?....

A HRC friend who bought into the HPP for $20 per point (660 points) attended another owner's update today. Hyatt offered them a deal for $15.90 per point.

That price point is so revealing the HPP program is outright failing. How would you feel if you bought into the HPP at $20 and now Hyatt is selling the same product at a 20% discount! It almost feels like an "estate (aka garage) sale". I'd like to offer $9.99 a point and see their reaction. Of course my idea is tongue-in-cheek as I would NEVER even consider paying anything for the HPP.

 

[alameda94501]

I have heard from a broker that $5/pt on the secondary market isn't working out. Of course, those are third class citizens anyway in the agreements, so I would pity the person that tried to actually use those points.

 

[Kal]

The $5/pt starts to tell about the real world value of those points.

 

[dms1709]

Why should there be a issue with using the points, I thought points were points? I am putting a studio into points and was hoping to exchange into another Hyatt.

 

[Kal]

Why should there be a issue with using the points, I thought points were points? I am putting a studio into points and was hoping to exchange into another Hyatt.

My take is someone is trying to sell HPP points on the secondary market for $5/point. That would be an interesting story to follow. I can't imagine how that would have a successful outcome.

It's a different situation if an HRC owner is using their HRC points to stay in a different location.

 

[alameda94501]

Why should there be a issue with using the points, I thought points were points? I am putting a studio into points and was hoping to exchange into another Hyatt.

In the HPP program, my understanding is points are not equal, and based on the status of the owner; elite, premier, executive, classic... And Unauthorized, which would be the $5 resale points.

As you might imagine Unauthorized points are the lowest of the low and will be able to reserve after everyone else has their pick. But the annual fees will be equal to those better points!

 

[bradj]

Are HPP points preferenced over HRC points? My request list requests in the HRC program are not filling like they used to, even with 18 month out bookings. My gut tells me that Marriott doesn't like the Hyatt's HRC points program.

 

[alameda94501]

Are HPP points preferenced over HRC points? My request list requests in the HRC program are not filling like they used to, even with 18 month out bookings. My gut tells me that Marriott doesn't like the Hyatt's HRC points program.

My understanding is that the HPP weeks (and corresponding points) are in a different pool from HRC weeks and corresponding pool.

At the same time, if enough old HRC members "hybridize" (this is the primary sales pitch I've heard from the Hyatt Sales Team as an HRC owner), they purchase the annual option to "swap". That is, once a year they may take their owned week out of the HRC week pool for a year, put it into the HPP weeks pool and get HPP points for that. And pay $133 for the privilege. From what they told me this happens around January 1.

Then the remaining HRC members will have a tiny bit less requests filled.

 

[Kal]

Actually, an HRC member first has to join the HPP program. To do so a minimum of 660 points must be purchased. At $20/point, that equates to about $13,000. Once you belong to HPP you then have options to manage your HRC points. One option is to move an HRC week(s) to the HPP on an annual basis during Jan 1 to Feb 28. There is also an HPP maintenance fee for those 660 points.

 

[PerryKing]

After reading all these prior post on this thread: May I offer some of my current thoughts on the Portfolio Program, especially for current HRC members.

The main details that are a deal breaker for me at this time are in the Hyatt Portfolio Points club system FEE SCHEDULE.


After you join up by buying into the HPP system for a minimum purchase of 660 points, plus "closing cost of around $300 and paying the maintenance fee in advance (With the cost going up every quarter).

You can then choose to move your HRC points into the HPP club each year to gain HPP privilege's such as extending the life of your HRC points, to get reservation priorities, or to get a bonus when you then convert those points to World of Hyatt Points.

However after you buy in, it seems that per the fee schedule that one would have to pay $133.00 each year to move those points into the HPP system

One of the touted benefits of the HPP is that you can then convert your HRC points to Hyatt hotel points, (with no limit on that " privilege" such as the only 10% of HRC owners per club are allowed each year MAX that can convert to World of Hyatt Hotel points).

And also depending on your "STATUS " in the HPP system the member would get a small increase in the number of Hotel points over what the regular HRC member would get, (about 10% more at the Elite level or so).

So the way I interpret the fee schedule it would cost me $127 per bucket of points each year to just move my HRC points into the HPP system. (I wonder if your "Status" changes each year depending on how many of your Hyatt Residence Club points that you decide to transfer into the HPP system each year. A question I would have asked , if they had followed up with me the day after the "Owners Update" presentation.) Your status in the HPP program has some minor effects on the cost of the fees charged to make reservations and on the Word of Hyatt conversion factor when converting your points to the WOH program)

I currently own at three HRC's. So it looks like to convert my HRC points through the HPP system each year, as a guaranteed no limits privilege of being a HPP member, would cost me the deposit fee of $133 to move the points into the HPP club , and another $127 to then convert those points to World of Hyatt points. So in my case if I did all three clubs points that I own would cost me another : ($133 + $127) X 3 = $780 each year, besides the maintenance fee on the few Portfolio Points one will have to buy.

There are a lot of other fees involved in using your "Privilege's" of the HPP club.

I.e. I did get a good presentation of the system at the Hyatt Pinion Pointe sales office in July 2019, ( My first was Key West in March of 2019 and was not as informative) Then that evening back in my room at the Pinion Pointe I sort of almost considered signing up, but when I closely read and studied the Hyatt Portfolio Club fee schedule and saw that every privilege of the few that might have been important to me, and that I though I might gain by buying into the Portfolio Points system came a recurring cost each time you used one of your "Privilege's". In the end the cost of buying in and the fees of using the system just seemed not worth it to me. ( and per the prior postings here, at that time I did not know, if its true, that one can only sell their HPP membership back to Hyatt per the rules, that would also have been a deal breaker for me right then. I asked if the HPP membership was transferable, and they replied: Yes. I guess I did not get the whole story then. )

My ongoing thought about the Hyatt Portfolio Program is: That if Hyatt produced this system (as the say ) "to improve current deficiencies of availability problems in the club, to meet changing needs of members and to provide more flexibility for usage of the clubs by members, etc. " then they should just give all members these privilege's at no new buy in cost. They can charge their fees for usage I guess. I will give them that.

When I make this remark to the sales managers and sales people, I just get blank stare !

 

[ocdb8r]

I currently own at three HRC's. So it looks like to convert my HRC points through the HPP system each year, as a guaranteed no limits privilege of being a HPP member, would cost me the deposit fee of $133 to move the points into the HPP club , and another $127 to then convert those points to World of Hyatt points. So in my case if I did all three clubs points that I own would cost me another : ($133 + $127) X 3 = $780 each year, besides the maintenance fee on the few Portfolio Points one will have to buy.

I'm no fan of the HPP, but 1) I don't think the fees you've quoted are "per week" - perhaps the HRC-->HPP is per week (but I don't think so...I think it covers any of the weeks you own), but certainly once in the HPP you'd only pay a single fee to convert any number of points to WoH points; 2) I don't think at any cost converting to WoH points makes sense....you're always getting better value using your points in the timeshare system.

The problem with the HPP (mainly) is that available inventory is so low, few good exchanges are possible. Hyatt should have done what Marriott did when they launched their DC program and offered existing owners a reasonable fee to "enroll" their week in the HPP without buying points. That would have created a big boost in participation, increased exchanges and therefore made HPP's actually marketable/valuable in the future. Existing owners would be enticed to buy points because of the extra flexibility offered.

 

[Kal]

... Hyatt should have done what Marriott did when they launched their DC program and offered existing owners a reasonable fee to "enroll" their week in the HPP without buying points...

Are you suggesting the HPP "enrollment fee" of $13,000 (purchase 660 points) is not appropriate? Some my consider the $13K as "walk around money". FYI, I'm not one of those few.

 

[SteelerGal]

Are you suggesting the HPP "enrollment fee" of $13,000 (purchase 660 points) is not appropriate? Some my consider the $13K as "walk around money". FYI, I'm not one of those few.

MVC initial enrollment fee was less than $1000 if your resale was purchased prior to 2010. Now its closer to $2000. This is just to enroll. No need to purchase a hybrid contract.

 

[alameda94501]

I have two HRPP weeks and they confirmed to me it was $133 for each week each year. That's fee#1 that is high to me. The $20/pt purchase price is fee#2 that is high to me. The annual fees in HPP of $0.96/pt/yr for those points is fee#3 that is high to me.

In all, too many fees for too little gain.

 

[PerryKing]

I'm no fan of the HPP, but 1) I don't think the fees you've quoted are "per week" - perhaps the HRC-->HPP is per week (but I don't think so...I think it covers any of the weeks you own), but certainly once in the HPP you'd only pay a single fee to convert any number of points to WoH points; 2) I don't think at any cost converting to WoH points makes sense....you're always getting better value using your points in the timeshare system.

The problem with the HPP (mainly) is that available inventory is so low, few good exchanges are possible. Hyatt should have done what Marriott did when they launched their DC program and offered existing owners a reasonable fee to "enroll" their week in the HPP without buying points. That would have created a big boost in participation, increased exchanges and therefore made HPP's actually marketable/valuable in the future. Existing owners would be enticed to buy points because of the extra flexibility offered.

I think it a $133 fee is per set of points from each contract (week ) that you might own) of points - all, or some part Maybe) with each set coming from a different contract (Not including Float points - those you can not convert to HPP) that you transfer each year into the HPP program. P.S as confirmand now I see by ALAMEDA94501 in above post, that I now see)



The fee to convert from HRC points to HPC points is in the HPC fee schedule, which I have a copy of. these fees were barley mentioned. i.e passed over very quickly, during the sales process to a current owner) What's not clear is if I converted all my points from three different properties all at the same time into the HPP for the upcoming year is if that would be one transaction (fee) or it if it would be 3 Transactions and 3 Fees. Knowing Hyatt suspect it would be 3 transactions and three fees. There is also a fee to convert HPP club points to HRC points to use for reservations by HPP members into HRC properties that are not in the HPP Trust . !!

And yes I agree with you that they should have been more inclusive and reasonable options for current members in their new system, without trying to sell current members another "membership".