Hyatt Portfolio Points Program

[Sapper]

I really don't see this as too relevant. MVC is likely to either do away with PPP or make it irrelevant. They are not likely to keep/promote a system that is not making them $. I strongly suspect they will create a system, like the one they created at Marriott, allowing people to buy in at a nominal cost.

If this is what Marriott ends up doing, its going to really irritate the folks who have bought into HPP.

 

[Pathways]

If this is what Marriott ends up doing, its going to really irritate the folks who have bought into HPP.

I doubt Marriott will be too concerned about those 5 people!

 

[Kal]

I doubt Marriott will be too concerned about those 5 people!

You are really on top of this HPP thing. I only know of TWO owners who took the bait.

 

[Sapper]

You are really on top of this HPP thing. I only know of TWO owners who took the bait.

He was just rounding up.

 

[lizap]

If this is what Marriott ends up doing, its going to really irritate the folks who have bought into HPP.

Doubt that the feelings of HPP owners will be very important to MVC.

 

[Rick E]

Ok. We sent the cancellation paperwork and are ready to sign a contract for a secondary market silver windward point for $2,150 ALL IN. How’s that?

 

[Sapper]

Ok. We sent the cancellation paperwork and are ready to sign a contract for a secondary market silver windward point for $2,150 ALL IN. How’s that?

There's a platinum (2000pts) Windward on fleBay right now for $309 with free closing. It ends in three days.

The plus is this probably will stay under $2k. The seller is a negative, but that will probably keep the price low. It will probably pass ROFR right now because of all the changes going on with the new ownership plus the disaster that the points program is and how much inventory Hyatt currently has in the HPP from Windward.

The negative is the seller. They have a low feedback raiting, have only an 85% positive raiting, and you can read mixed reviews here on TUG re the seller.

So, higher risk than that silver you found for $2k, but also higher reward... Both in the potential purchase price and in the points cost related to maintenance fee in the future (more points for the same maintenance fee).

 

[SHG]

I just completed a stay at the Hyatt Bonita Springs. My wife and I were exceptionally impressed and I decided to look into the Hyatt program. My research has made me interested in a Platinum Season Hyatt Pinon Point (lowest maint fees). The one thing my research has not been clear on is how does this program work with Interval? I have seen where you deposit a certain amount of points in Interval, or do you deposit your whole week?? I cant seem to find clear answers... Any Hyatt experts here?

Also, is the Interval annual fee included in the annual dues?? Or do you have to pay Interval as a separate added cost??

 

[alexadeparis]

I just completed a stay at the Hyatt Bonita Springs. My wife and I were exceptionally impressed and I decided to look into the Hyatt program. My research has made me interested in a Platinum Season Hyatt Pinon Point (lowest maint fees). The one thing my research has not been clear on is how does this program work with Interval? I have seen where you deposit a certain amount of points in Interval, or do you deposit your whole week?? I cant seem to find clear answers... Any Hyatt experts here?

Also, is the Interval annual fee included in the annual dues?? Or do you have to pay Interval as a separate added cost??

Interval membership is included and will be automatically set up for you. Once in there, You click on your unit use year in interval, 2018, 2019, etc. then it asks how many points you want to use on a size season grid. I always click the highest number because then it shows you the maximum units, with all the point values. The price in points varies by size and season, and in instant exchange you simply click through to make the exchange and it will deduct the required points from your account. So just because you initially click 1300 points doesn’t Mean anything. They only deduct the actual points for what you need on the exchange if you find a lesser unit. For ongoing search, you put in the request with the maximum points you are willing to spend for your request. But of course, you need to make sure you have enough points to actually get the size and season you are requesting, or you won’t get a match.

 

[SHG]

Interval membership is included and will be automatically set up for you. Once in there, You click on your unit use year in interval, 2018, 2019, etc. then it asks how many points you want to use on a size season grid. I always click the highest number because then it shows you the maximum units, with all the point values. The price in points varies by size and season, and in instant exchange you simply click through to make the exchange and it will deduct the required points from your account. So just because you initially click 1300 points doesn’t Mean anything. They only deduct the actual points for what you need on the exchange if you find a lesser unit. For ongoing search, you put in the request with the maximum points you are willing to spend for your request. But of course, you need to make sure you have enough points to actually get the size and season you are requesting, or you won’t get a match.

Excellent explanation. Thank You! This helps

 

[Kal]

I spoke with someone who recently bought into the HPP. They were told by the huckster you can leave your legacy units in place and the Portfolio will transfer as many points as needed to confirm a Portfolio reservation. They thought the HPP was a great idea because they could "double dip" on the request list. One request in HPP and the other in HRC. How interesting is that! If something is too good to believe, it's too good to believe.

IF TRUE, that would mean the Portfolio would not receive an intact legacy week or for that matter who knows what it would receive? As we all know the basis of the HPP is to grow the inventory with useable time share weeks. The "double dip" notion is meaningless if an owner does not have actual and sufficient Portfolio points to confirm a wait list reservation. The only way to have sufficient Portfolio points is to actually transfer a full legacy week into the HPP. In so doing you would reduce your legacy CUP point total and likely reduce your opportunities to confirm a legacy request. Of course the real issue on the HPP is availability. On the assumption that about 3% of the legacy weeks have been transferred into the HPP, the success rate of confirming a requested reservation is about nil (plus or minus).

And by the way, I doubt very seriously the ~$13,000 buy into HPP can be refunded.

 

[WalnutBaron]

I spoke with someone who recently bought into the HPP. They were told by the huckster you can leave your legacy units in place and the Portfolio will transfer as many points as needed to confirm a Portfolio reservation. They thought the HPP was a great idea because they could "double dip" on the request list. One request in HPP and the other in HRC. How interesting is that! If something is too good to believe, it's too good to believe.

IF TRUE, that would mean the Portfolio would not receive an intact legacy week or for that matter who knows what it would receive? As we all know the basis of the HPP is to grow the inventory with useable time share weeks. The "double dip" notion is meaningless if an owner does not have actual and sufficient Portfolio points to confirm a wait list reservation. The only way to have sufficient Portfolio points is to actually transfer a full legacy week into the HPP. In so doing you would reduce your legacy CUP point total and likely reduce your opportunities to confirm a legacy request. Of course the real issue on the HPP is availability. On the assumption that about 3% of the legacy weeks have been transferred into the HPP, the success rate of confirming a requested reservation is about nil (plus or minus).

And by the way, I doubt very seriously the ~$13,000 buy into HPP can be refunded.

If true, Kal, the HPP is something akin to a Ponzi scheme, where Hyatt is counting on enough legacy conversions to be able to satisfy the HPP reservation requests. Without those conversions, HPP contains a boatload of promises with almost no way of fulfilling them. And without the backup of the hard asset--which is the actual week being transferred to HPP--the whole scheme would be nothing short of fraudulent. I suspect the buyer you spoke to was hoodwinked by a lying sales weasel. If what the weasel said is true, then HPP truly is a fraudulent enterprise.

 

[Kal]

If true, Kal, the HPP is something akin to a Ponzi scheme, .... I suspect the buyer you spoke to was hoodwinked by a lying sales weasel. If what the weasel said is true, then HPP truly is a fraudulent enterprise.

This situation pinpoints the risk in transferring a HRC unit to HPP. You give up a demonstrated ability to exchange within HRC for a very large uncertainty in the HPP. As an aside, this new HPP buyer is looking at all the "great" opportunities to spend HPP points on non-timeshare ideas such as hotels. I asked if they looked at the pricing chart for any specific hotels available thru HPP? They said they did not look. I suggested they use the Hyatt Hotel exchange options in HRC as a guide to what they will see in HPP.

 

[bdh]

If true, Kal, the HPP is something akin to a Ponzi scheme, where Hyatt is counting on enough legacy conversions to be able to satisfy the HPP reservation requests. Without those conversions, HPP contains a boatload of promises with almost no way of fulfilling them. And without the backup of the hard asset--which is the actual week being transferred to HPP--the whole scheme would be nothing short of fraudulent. I suspect the buyer you spoke to was hoodwinked by a lying sales weasel. If what the weasel said is true, then HPP truly is a fraudulent enterprise.

I don't believe that HPP is fradulent in anyway shape or form as I'm sure they have a "week" in the trust to back up every set of HPP points sold (how could they not have 5 weeks in the trust for the 5 "weeks" they've sold - haha). The problem is that the weeks/locations they have in the trust, aren't weeks that owners are typically requesting - and while HPP owners can access the legacy week wait list, for the most part they aren't knowledgeable enough to get the reservations that the salesman are telling them they have access to.

 

[Kal]

I have a question regarding the Points Program that I didn't ask during the "owner's update". I was told that every year an owner with legacy units has two options. The first is keep your legacy units as is with no change from business as usual. The second option is to transfer one or more legacy units into the HPP. This decision must be made during the first 12 weeks of the new year.

The question is the timing of the 12 weeks. Does it start on January 1 and end 12 weeks later? Or does it start when the owner receives next year's new points? No matter what the answer, this could be a nightmare in managing reservation request lists and using your points. If you owned two units at different times in the year, it would really be difficult to plan between Legacy and HPP.

Think hard about all the details that would complicate the issue. As a beginning, if you transfer one week to HPP, those points would no longer be available to legacy week bookings. You could still be on the Legacy request list, but if a unit became available, you might not have enough points for the booking.

It would be fun to ask the hucksters to lay this all out in precise detail. But then your head would start hurting and need to leave.

 

[taterhed]

I can't imagine MVC will keep or try to integrate Hyatt. Great resorts, scary-bad points system.
Any thing Marriott does would anger owners on one side or both.

Guess we'll wait and see.

 

[Sapper]

I can't imagine MVC will keep or try to integrate Hyatt. Great resorts, scary-bad points system.
Any thing Marriott does would anger owners on one side or both.

Guess we'll wait and see.

The problem is, I'm not sure how they are going to fix it. I guess they could give all the HPP owners their money back, dump what was the HPP inventory into II or some kind of mega point program that includes other properties, and then offer some kind of "deal" to the former HPP owners to buy back into the super points program. They have really made a mess of things.

 

[DMSTWO]

I'm a Marriott and Hyatt owner...reading this thread gave me a wicked HEADACHE... Almost every argument presented here is a direct repeat of what happened at Marriott Vacation Club a few years ago (see the TUG Marriott Forum).


Here are a few things I learned through the Marriott program transition from use weeks to a points system (called the destination club).


I may have a few errors in by below description, such as prices, terms and time periods, but for the most part I believe the discussion itself to be quite accurate.


Those of you thinking Hyatt will scrape the Points Program most likely will be grossly disappointed. I say this because sometime in late 2016 or early 2017 Hyatt Vacation Club happily proclaimed at one of Pinon Point Owner Updates, that they had hired a well experienced industry professional to help with strategic planning and program improvements. I don't recall his name, but when a resort manager told me his name, my spirits sank...he was none other than one of the major architects of the Marriott Point program. And that program was still having significant growing pains.

1 The use week owners and the points owners both hold deeds.

a) The Use Week owners have a deed to a physical piece of property for a specific week (even if it is a floating week in terms of the program, there is an actual underlying deeded week recorded with the state or county).

b) Points owners own a fractional share of a Trust. The trust holds the formal ownerships of a collection of specific use weeks at various resorts. As additional units/use weeks are added to the trust, additional trust points are added maintaining the balance between ownership and availability. Points assigned to a unit when added to the trust are based on desirability. So a diamond week at a particular resort is worth more points than a bronze week at that resort.


2 The program cannot sell more points than are supported by the underlying deeds. So, if as described in some of the previous posts, 20 deeded use weeks at Sunset Harbor are currently held in the trust, and if they were the only weeks in the trust, then Hyatt could only sell enough points to book those 20 unit weeks.

3 The maintenance fees for points are the prorata average of all maintenance fees attributable to all underlying deed held in the trust. So if we stick with the 20 Sunset Harbor example, the total maintenance fees to be collected by the trust would be 20 weeks of Sunset Harbor Maintenance Fees for the respective unit sizes divided by the total number of trust points. If they later add 10 Pinon Point use weeks, those maintenance fees are added and the maintenance fees adjusted accordingly. You will not pay redundant Maintenance Fees if you join the points program. Your use week maintenance fees will still be as they were, and yes you will pay Maintenance Fees on any Trust Points you may have bought, but you will not pay additional fees on the weeks you deposit.

5 Marriott, and now Hyatt realized that their portfolios had stagnated and they need cashflow and upside potential to justify building of new Resorts. They found they were holding an inventory of less desirable weeks at various resorts that they were struggling to sell (i.e. inferior resorts, undesirable seasons, etc.). They were also burdened by covering maintenance fees for these undesirable weeks, and their underlying initial investment for these units was deteriorating over time. So they decided to create the points system as a new marketing approach.

6 The initial portfolio of the Points Programs were all those undesirable weeks. They had to find a way to include more desirable weeks in the mix. So they started exercising ROFR on the most desirable weeks at the most desirable resorts. They also announced plans to build new resorts.

7 They also stimulate availability by enrolling use week owners in the points program on the hope that they will deposit desirable weeks into the program. At Marriott they allowed week owners to enroll in the points program for a minimal fee (if I recall correctly about $1300) if they did it in the first several months of the program. As time went on, the cost to "enroll" increased. After about 12-18 months they would only allow a use week owner to enroll if they paid a lower enrollment fee (+/- $750), along with purchasing a minimum number of trust points directly. Hyatt evidently decided to jump right into the "you must buy a minimum number of points (currently 780) in order to be allowed to link you use weeks to the points program.

What was learned about exchanges at Marriott

8 There is no way a Use Week Owner can reserve/use a Trust Points unit, nor can a Points owner reserve a use week... Unless and Until an owner in each program agrees to the swap. This would naturally be handled by these reservation/exchange system, not directly between owners. To this day many Marriott Timeshare Salesmen don't know this or chose to plead ignorance when asked the particulars of the exchange program.

9 So to make these exchanges legal and compatible, there needs to be three... yes three separate inventories maintained. On TUG and within the Marriott system they are called Buckets


a) The first bucket is use weeks traded for another use week. In this bucket use week owners can only trade with use week owners.

b) The second bucket is Points Program unit/weeks only. These can only be reserved by Points Owners.

c) The third bucket is the exchange across programs. All points owners have access to this inventory, but only use week owners that have deposited their use week into the points program for that specific year to have access.

When they deposit the use week, they basically become temporary points owners and are assigned a number of points appropriate to the value of the week deposited.

A use week owner however can only deposit and receive program points if there are excess points available (remember legally the trust cannot exceed the number of points equal to the points value of the trusts underlying actual deeded weeks). This limits the number of owners that can deposit weeks into the trust program. This is not unlike converting your week to Hyatt Hotel Points...first come first served.

So, where do excess points come from? If a points owner exchanges into a use week unit, the value of the points used for that transfer become available as "excess points available," also the developer that has unsold inventory can make their points available as excess points.


So why enroll in the points program?

Over time, with development of additional resorts, ROFRs, non-participating resorts being approved by their respective state real estate departments, and unit foreclosures, the available number of units and points grows.

Access to this portion of the portfolio will no be available to non-participation use week owners (except through II external exchange which is allowed by Marriott, but not Hyatt).

For many this is not a concern, for others it will be.

Our experience exhanging through II into Marriott properties has gotten significantly harder since Marriott started their points program. It seems to be getting worse, as more Marriott transfers are occurring within their three bucket system.

Over at Marriott there was initially, a tremendous resistance by the use week owners... not so much anymore. Everybody has learned to work within the system or systems to which they are enrolled.

My wife and I have access to both use weeks and point in Marriott, as well as, Hyatt. For us the flexibility and reach offered by participating in both suits our purpose.

​

 

[scsu_hockey_fan]

One thing to keep in mind is that Marriott weeks did not have points previously assigned to them, whereas hyatt weeks already had a point system in place, which should make it easier. I believe at the 6 month mark the two inventories are fair game for anyone. I'm now wondering if the reason behind the point adjustment for the Florida resorts was strategic to lower the cost per point of the new system as there is a lot of room to grow at coconut plantation and the before mentioned "new" possible resort for key west, which if true would help explain the major points adjustment that we saw. The thing that gets me is some time far far down the road these resorts will eventually be under water, literally., and what happens then with all the points in trust but no place to stay?

I'm a Marriott and Hyatt owner...reading this thread gave me a wicked HEADACHE... Almost every argument presented here is a direct repeat of what happened at Marriott Vacation Club a few years ago (see the TUG Marriott Forum).


Here are a few things I learned through the Marriott program transition from use weeks to a points system (called the destination club).


I may have a few errors in by below description, such as prices, terms and time periods, but for the most part I believe the discussion itself to be quite accurate.


Those of you thinking Hyatt will scrape the Points Program most likely will be grossly disappointed. I say this because sometime in late 2016 or early 2017 Hyatt Vacation Club happily proclaimed at one of Pinon Point Owner Updates, that they had hired a well experienced industry professional to help with strategic planning and program improvements. I don't recall his name, but when a resort manager told me his name, my spirits sank...he was none other than one of the major architects of the Marriott Point program. And that program was still having significant growing pains.

1 The use week owners and the points owners both hold deeds.

a) The Use Week owners have a deed to a physical piece of property for a specific week (even if it is a floating week in terms of the program, there is an actual underlying deeded week recorded with the state or county).

b) Points owners own a fractional share of a Trust. The trust holds the formal ownerships of a collection of specific use weeks at various resorts. As additional units/use weeks are added to the trust, additional trust points are added maintaining the balance between ownership and availability. Points assigned to a unit when added to the trust are based on desirability. So a diamond week at a particular resort is worth more points than a bronze week at that resort.


2 The program cannot sell more points than are supported by the underlying deeds. So, if as described in some of the previous posts, 20 deeded use weeks at Sunset Harbor are currently held in the trust, and if they were the only weeks in the trust, then Hyatt could only sell enough points to book those 20 unit weeks.

3 The maintenance fees for points are the prorata average of all maintenance fees attributable to all underlying deed held in the trust. So if we stick with the 20 Sunset Harbor example, the total maintenance fees to be collected by the trust would be 20 weeks of Sunset Harbor Maintenance Fees for the respective unit sizes divided by the total number of trust points. If they later add 10 Pinon Point use weeks, those maintenance fees are added and the maintenance fees adjusted accordingly. You will not pay redundant Maintenance Fees if you join the points program. Your use week maintenance fees will still be as they were, and yes you will pay Maintenance Fees on any Trust Points you may have bought, but you will not pay additional fees on the weeks you deposit.

5 Marriott, and now Hyatt realized that their portfolios had stagnated and they need cashflow and upside potential to justify building of new Resorts. They found they were holding an inventory of less desirable weeks at various resorts that they were struggling to sell (i.e. inferior resorts, undesirable seasons, etc.). They were also burdened by covering maintenance fees for these undesirable weeks, and their underlying initial investment for these units was deteriorating over time. So they decided to create the points system as a new marketing approach.

6 The initial portfolio of the Points Programs were all those undesirable weeks. They had to find a way to include more desirable weeks in the mix. So they started exercising ROFR on the most desirable weeks at the most desirable resorts. They also announced plans to build new resorts.

7 They also stimulate availability by enrolling use week owners in the points program on the hope that they will deposit desirable weeks into the program. At Marriott they allowed week owners to enroll in the points program for a minimal fee (if I recall correctly about $1300) if they did it in the first several months of the program. As time went on, the cost to "enroll" increased. After about 12-18 months they would only allow a use week owner to enroll if they paid a lower enrollment fee (+/- $750), along with purchasing a minimum number of trust points directly. Hyatt evidently decided to jump right into the "you must buy a minimum number of points (currently 780) in order to be allowed to link you use weeks to the points program.

What was learned about exchanges at Marriott

8 There is no way a Use Week Owner can reserve/use a Trust Points unit, nor can a Points owner reserve a use week... Unless and Until an owner in each program agrees to the swap. This would naturally be handled by these reservation/exchange system, not directly between owners. To this day many Marriott Timeshare Salesmen don't know this or chose to plead ignorance when asked the particulars of the exchange program.

9 So to make these exchanges legal and compatible, there needs to be three... yes three separate inventories maintained. On TUG and within the Marriott system they are called Buckets


a) The first bucket is use weeks traded for another use week. In this bucket use week owners can only trade with use week owners.

b) The second bucket is Points Program unit/weeks only. These can only be reserved by Points Owners.

c) The third bucket is the exchange across programs. All points owners have access to this inventory, but only use week owners that have deposited their use week into the points program for that specific year to have access.

When they deposit the use week, they basically become temporary points owners and are assigned a number of points appropriate to the value of the week deposited.

A use week owner however can only deposit and receive program points if there are excess points available (remember legally the trust cannot exceed the number of points equal to the points value of the trusts underlying actual deeded weeks). This limits the number of owners that can deposit weeks into the trust program. This is not unlike converting your week to Hyatt Hotel Points...first come first served.

So, where do excess points come from? If a points owner exchanges into a use week unit, the value of the points used for that transfer become available as "excess points available," also the developer that has unsold inventory can make their points available as excess points.


So why enroll in the points program?

Over time, with development of additional resorts, ROFRs, non-participating resorts being approved by their respective state real estate departments, and unit foreclosures, the available number of units and points grows.

Access to this portion of the portfolio will no be available to non-participation use week owners (except through II external exchange which is allowed by Marriott, but not Hyatt).

For many this is not a concern, for others it will be.

Our experience exhanging through II into Marriott properties has gotten significantly harder since Marriott started their points program. It seems to be getting worse, as more Marriott transfers are occurring within their three bucket system.

Over at Marriott there was initially, a tremendous resistance by the use week owners... not so much anymore. Everybody has learned to work within the system or systems to which they are enrolled.

My wife and I have access to both use weeks and point in Marriott, as well as, Hyatt. For us the flexibility and reach offered by participating in both suits our purpose.

​

 

[Sapper]

I'm a Marriott and Hyatt owner...reading this thread gave me a wicked HEADACHE... Almost every argument presented here is a direct repeat of what happened at Marriott Vacation Club a few years ago (see the TUG Marriott Forum).


Here are a few things I learned through the Marriott program transition from use weeks to a points system (called the destination club).


I may have a few errors in by below description, such as prices, terms and time periods, but for the most part I believe the discussion itself to be quite accurate.


Those of you thinking Hyatt will scrape the Points Program most likely will be grossly disappointed. I say this because sometime in late 2016 or early 2017 Hyatt Vacation Club happily proclaimed at one of Pinon Point Owner Updates, that they had hired a well experienced industry professional to help with strategic planning and program improvements. I don't recall his name, but when a resort manager told me his name, my spirits sank...he was none other than one of the major architects of the Marriott Point program. And that program was still having significant growing pains.

1 The use week owners and the points owners both hold deeds.

a) The Use Week owners have a deed to a physical piece of property for a specific week (even if it is a floating week in terms of the program, there is an actual underlying deeded week recorded with the state or county).

b) Points owners own a fractional share of a Trust. The trust holds the formal ownerships of a collection of specific use weeks at various resorts. As additional units/use weeks are added to the trust, additional trust points are added maintaining the balance between ownership and availability. Points assigned to a unit when added to the trust are based on desirability. So a diamond week at a particular resort is worth more points than a bronze week at that resort.


2 The program cannot sell more points than are supported by the underlying deeds. So, if as described in some of the previous posts, 20 deeded use weeks at Sunset Harbor are currently held in the trust, and if they were the only weeks in the trust, then Hyatt could only sell enough points to book those 20 unit weeks.

3 The maintenance fees for points are the prorata average of all maintenance fees attributable to all underlying deed held in the trust. So if we stick with the 20 Sunset Harbor example, the total maintenance fees to be collected by the trust would be 20 weeks of Sunset Harbor Maintenance Fees for the respective unit sizes divided by the total number of trust points. If they later add 10 Pinon Point use weeks, those maintenance fees are added and the maintenance fees adjusted accordingly. You will not pay redundant Maintenance Fees if you join the points program. Your use week maintenance fees will still be as they were, and yes you will pay Maintenance Fees on any Trust Points you may have bought, but you will not pay additional fees on the weeks you deposit.

5 Marriott, and now Hyatt realized that their portfolios had stagnated and they need cashflow and upside potential to justify building of new Resorts. They found they were holding an inventory of less desirable weeks at various resorts that they were struggling to sell (i.e. inferior resorts, undesirable seasons, etc.). They were also burdened by covering maintenance fees for these undesirable weeks, and their underlying initial investment for these units was deteriorating over time. So they decided to create the points system as a new marketing approach.

6 The initial portfolio of the Points Programs were all those undesirable weeks. They had to find a way to include more desirable weeks in the mix. So they started exercising ROFR on the most desirable weeks at the most desirable resorts. They also announced plans to build new resorts.

7 They also stimulate availability by enrolling use week owners in the points program on the hope that they will deposit desirable weeks into the program. At Marriott they allowed week owners to enroll in the points program for a minimal fee (if I recall correctly about $1300) if they did it in the first several months of the program. As time went on, the cost to "enroll" increased. After about 12-18 months they would only allow a use week owner to enroll if they paid a lower enrollment fee (+/- $750), along with purchasing a minimum number of trust points directly. Hyatt evidently decided to jump right into the "you must buy a minimum number of points (currently 780) in order to be allowed to link you use weeks to the points program.

What was learned about exchanges at Marriott

8 There is no way a Use Week Owner can reserve/use a Trust Points unit, nor can a Points owner reserve a use week... Unless and Until an owner in each program agrees to the swap. This would naturally be handled by these reservation/exchange system, not directly between owners. To this day many Marriott Timeshare Salesmen don't know this or chose to plead ignorance when asked the particulars of the exchange program.

9 So to make these exchanges legal and compatible, there needs to be three... yes three separate inventories maintained. On TUG and within the Marriott system they are called Buckets


a) The first bucket is use weeks traded for another use week. In this bucket use week owners can only trade with use week owners.

b) The second bucket is Points Program unit/weeks only. These can only be reserved by Points Owners.

c) The third bucket is the exchange across programs. All points owners have access to this inventory, but only use week owners that have deposited their use week into the points program for that specific year to have access.

When they deposit the use week, they basically become temporary points owners and are assigned a number of points appropriate to the value of the week deposited.

A use week owner however can only deposit and receive program points if there are excess points available (remember legally the trust cannot exceed the number of points equal to the points value of the trusts underlying actual deeded weeks). This limits the number of owners that can deposit weeks into the trust program. This is not unlike converting your week to Hyatt Hotel Points...first come first served.

So, where do excess points come from? If a points owner exchanges into a use week unit, the value of the points used for that transfer become available as "excess points available," also the developer that has unsold inventory can make their points available as excess points.


So why enroll in the points program?

Over time, with development of additional resorts, ROFRs, non-participating resorts being approved by their respective state real estate departments, and unit foreclosures, the available number of units and points grows.

Access to this portion of the portfolio will no be available to non-participation use week owners (except through II external exchange which is allowed by Marriott, but not Hyatt).

For many this is not a concern, for others it will be.

Our experience exhanging through II into Marriott properties has gotten significantly harder since Marriott started their points program. It seems to be getting worse, as more Marriott transfers are occurring within their three bucket system.

Over at Marriott there was initially, a tremendous resistance by the use week owners... not so much anymore. Everybody has learned to work within the system or systems to which they are enrolled.

My wife and I have access to both use weeks and point in Marriott, as well as, Hyatt. For us the flexibility and reach offered by participating in both suits our purpose.

​

Thank you for that information. I think the HPP has given everyone a headache. While I would like the program to die, the purchase by Marriott makes me think it won't.

Hopefully Marriott will disclose what it intends to do with the Hyatt system in the next few months as they get things together. Because of the move of the transfer department to (I think) Vistana, I doubt that it will be spun off. Maybe Marriott will kill the branding agreement with Hyatt and consolidate the properties with Westin or Sheraton, kill the Hyatt internal trading system, and make it where you have to buy into what ever the new points system will be. Ah, that headache is back.

 

[Kal]

The $2,500 special offer. If you decline to buy into the HPP, the closer comes into the room with a "special offer". If you pay a mere $2,500 you will receive a 7 day stay at a limited selection of HRC resorts. The stay would be limited to available units which means leftovers. You will also be able to apply that $2,500 as a down payment on buying into the HPP. And that stay must be used within 12 months. What a deal!

There is also a provision in the "fine print" where the guest would have to attend another 90 minute HPP presentation at the time of that stay. If you don't attend you would be charged "rack rates" for the 7 day stay.

So this "special deal" offered before you walk out the door might not be so special.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

My guess it that when/if they combine the programs we will need some points in one of the programs to participate. Those of us who own resale weeks ( we own 3) will be the most impacted as Marriott has a history with resale owners. I suspect that if you are a part of a points program it would take less to join then for us. I still would want no part of HPP .

 

[alameda94501]

I return from Carmel, where we went to my second presentation on the HPP. They stated that they were averaging almost $1million in sales a month, which to my math is 50k HPP a month, and almost 80% were going to "Hybrid" owners - folks who also own in the HRC. I do think we have a lot of HRC owners at Carmel who bought through the Developer so perhaps they are more likely to Go Hybrid than a Resale owner. Sounded like a tough sale for new owners without any points, though.

Originally they stated there were two options for HRC owners. First, Hyatt could purchase the HRC deed back, and then you could use the funds to apply to a HPP purchase. Second, you could purchase HPP on top of HRC.

When they learned we had purchased on the secondary market, they said option #1 was out of the question. (Later on, they admitted that one would not have that much savings at all on a buyback because Hyatt doesn't offer much.)

So "Resale HRC" owners are in a specific group (imagining many of you are in the same group) and this is what I found out they have for us (sorry if you have seen this document before, I hadn't so thought it might be interesting):

This shows how much needs to be spent in raw dollars to "bless" our "unauthorized" resale.

From my last visit in June, and the sales figures they quoted me now, I believe we are still at the same cost per point ($20):

On top of this, they were slimmer on specials, but honestly I didn't push them for a good bargain to be mindful of everyone's time (they were looking a little sad): they didn't lead with a free interval week or two, no free HRC week or two, and just the standard FDI of WOH points. They also had the closing special to freeze the rate.

I completely forgot the June 2018 presentation but old me and new me came to the same conclusion - no way. I'm writing this here to remind myself...

To be able to deposit my 2,000 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $13,200 and I would end up with 2,000+ 660=2,660 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit my 2,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $18,400 and I would end up with 2,950+ 920=3,870 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit both 4,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $24,000 and I would end up with 4,950+1,200=6,150 HPP possible ("Premier").

(trivia: theoretically, someone wanting to get the Elite tier as efficiently as possible would want to start with 5,400 HRC points and spend $24k... not me...)

The benefits touted of HPP at this time by sales folks are:

. Reservation Request Advantage (Request List) - X-month Reservation Request Advantage for 1 reservation up to 7 nights (Classic/Executive/Premier) / 1 reservation up to 14 nights or 2 reservations up to 7 nights each (Elite), to access reservation in the HPP pool, where X=15/16/17/18 for the Classic/Executive/Premier/Elite.
. Accomodations Confirmation - (this one was nice if not pricey) Confirm the specific unit number/floor/view for an additional Y Portfolio points, where Y=100/75/50/25
. Stay One Day Reservations - use Portfolio points to book one-night stays up to 72 hours prior to day of arrival at a M discount, where M=0/0/10/30
. Boost Portfolio Points - Bank Portfolio points for an additional 2 years, borrow from future years up to 6 mo from arrival day.
. World of Hyatt Points - Convert any number of Portfolio points into WOH points at a rate of Z WOH per Portfolio point, where Z =41/43/45/50.

Besides the $20/pt upfront cost that made this a non-impulse buy are more importantly for our family:

1. No resale value of the HPP. Yikes.

2. Annual Fees and $133 HRC->HPP deposit fee. My 2,000+2,950=4,950 HRC points currently cost me ~$3,200/yr in annual fees or $0.64/pt. Spending $0.96/pt in annual fees is rough, plus add the (in the Papa Bear option of both units converted) $266/yr to deposit two HRC units into HPP - it ends up costing $1.18/pt, nearly double what I spend now. It's like they gave up on annual fee management.

Also my reservation fee of $60 under HPP is higher than $41 with HRC.

3. Too Complex. I know they talk about simplifying the Legacy CUP/LCUP program but the units our family covet are the five two-bedroom Carmel units, which all are in the HRC pool, as they were sold out years ago from the Developer.

So now every year we have to choose whether to deposit one or two HRC weeks into the HPP pool and spend the $133/yr per week? It just seems like too many decisions with too many unknowns, and we wouldn't want to spend $24k plus $1,400/yr in annual fees to regret depositing into HPP. Better just to not see the Portfolio units available on the web site - don't worry, be happy.

4. World of Hyatt. The old Developer benefit I gave up in Resale, it used to be 2,950 -> 120,000 or 2,000 -> 82,000 which was 41 WOH per HRC point. I never cared much for it, but it doesn't seem like a strong enough conversion to make this all worth it. Perhaps we're biased since we never had WOH benefits.

PS: The sales person made it sound like if you own (Developer, Resale) HRC in a resort you still get some sort of priority in booking CUP for that resort. That is news to me... is this true?

 

[lizap]

I return from Carmel, where we went to my second presentation on the HPP. They stated that they were averaging almost $1million in sales a month, which to my math is 50k HPP a month, and almost 80% were going to "Hybrid" owners - folks who also own in the HRC. I do think we have a lot of HRC owners at Carmel who bought through the Developer so perhaps they are more likely to Go Hybrid than a Resale owner. Sounded like a tough sale for new owners without any points, though.

Originally they stated there were two options for HRC owners. First, Hyatt could purchase the HRC deed back, and then you could use the funds to apply to a HPP purchase. Second, you could purchase HPP on top of HRC.

When they learned we had purchased on the secondary market, they said option #1 was out of the question. (Later on, they admitted that one would not have that much savings at all on a buyback because Hyatt doesn't offer much.)

So "Resale HRC" owners are in a specific group (imagining many of you are in the same group) and this is what I found out they have for us (sorry if you have seen this document before, I hadn't so thought it might be interesting):

This shows how much needs to be spent in raw dollars to "bless" our "unauthorized" resale.

From my last visit in June, and the sales figures they quoted me now, I believe we are still at the same cost per point ($20):

On top of this, they were slimmer on specials, but honestly I didn't push them for a good bargain to be mindful of everyone's time (they were looking a little sad): they didn't lead with a free interval week or two, no free HRC week or two, and just the standard FDI of WOH points. They also had the closing special to freeze the rate.

I completely forgot the June 2018 presentation but old me and new me came to the same conclusion - no way. I'm writing this here to remind myself...

To be able to deposit my 2,000 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $13,200 and I would end up with 2,000+ 660=2,660 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit my 2,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $18,400 and I would end up with 2,950+ 920=3,870 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit both 4,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $24,000 and I would end up with 4,950+1,200=6,150 HPP possible ("Premier").

(trivia: theoretically, someone wanting to get the Elite tier as efficiently as possible would want to start with 5,400 HRC points and spend $24k... not me...)

The benefits touted of HPP at this time by sales folks are:

. Reservation Request Advantage (Request List) - X-month Reservation Request Advantage for 1 reservation up to 7 nights (Classic/Executive/Premier) / 1 reservation up to 14 nights or 2 reservations up to 7 nights each (Elite), to access reservation in the HPP pool, where X=15/16/17/18 for the Classic/Executive/Premier/Elite.
. Accomodations Confirmation - (this one was nice if not pricey) Confirm the specific unit number/floor/view for an additional Y Portfolio points, where Y=100/75/50/25
. Stay One Day Reservations - use Portfolio points to book one-night stays up to 72 hours prior to day of arrival at a M discount, where M=0/0/10/30
. Boost Portfolio Points - Bank Portfolio points for an additional 2 years, borrow from future years up to 6 mo from arrival day.
. World of Hyatt Points - Convert any number of Portfolio points into WOH points at a rate of Z WOH per Portfolio point, where Z =41/43/45/50.

Besides the $20/pt upfront cost that made this a non-impulse buy are more importantly for our family:

1. No resale value of the HPP. Yikes.

2. Annual Fees and $133 HRC->HPP deposit fee. My 2,000+2,950=4,950 HRC points currently cost me ~$3,200/yr in annual fees or $0.64/pt. Spending $0.96/pt in annual fees is rough, plus add the (in the Papa Bear option of both units converted) $266/yr to deposit two HRC units into HPP - it ends up costing $1.18/pt, nearly double what I spend now. It's like they gave up on annual fee management.

Also my reservation fee of $60 under HPP is higher than $41 with HRC.

3. Too Complex. I know they talk about simplifying the Legacy CUP/LCUP program but the units our family covet are the five two-bedroom Carmel units, which all are in the HRC pool, as they were sold out years ago from the Developer.

So now every year we have to choose whether to deposit one or two HRC weeks into the HPP pool and spend the $133/yr per week? It just seems like too many decisions with too many unknowns, and we wouldn't want to spend $24k plus $1,400/yr in annual fees to regret depositing into HPP. Better just to not see the Portfolio units available on the web site - don't worry, be happy.

4. World of Hyatt. The old Developer benefit I gave up in Resale, it used to be 2,950 -> 120,000 or 2,000 -> 82,000 which was 41 WOH per HRC point. I never cared much for it, but it doesn't seem like a strong enough conversion to make this all worth it. Perhaps we're biased since we never had WOH benefits.

PS: The sales person made it sound like if you own (Developer, Resale) HRC in a resort you still get some sort of priority in booking CUP for that resort. That is news to me... is this true?

What a mess..

 

[WalnutBaron]

I return from Carmel, where we went to my second presentation on the HPP. They stated that they were averaging almost $1million in sales a month, which to my math is 50k HPP a month, and almost 80% were going to "Hybrid" owners - folks who also own in the HRC. I do think we have a lot of HRC owners at Carmel who bought through the Developer so perhaps they are more likely to Go Hybrid than a Resale owner. Sounded like a tough sale for new owners without any points, though.

Originally they stated there were two options for HRC owners. First, Hyatt could purchase the HRC deed back, and then you could use the funds to apply to a HPP purchase. Second, you could purchase HPP on top of HRC.

When they learned we had purchased on the secondary market, they said option #1 was out of the question. (Later on, they admitted that one would not have that much savings at all on a buyback because Hyatt doesn't offer much.)

So "Resale HRC" owners are in a specific group (imagining many of you are in the same group) and this is what I found out they have for us (sorry if you have seen this document before, I hadn't so thought it might be interesting):

This shows how much needs to be spent in raw dollars to "bless" our "unauthorized" resale.

From my last visit in June, and the sales figures they quoted me now, I believe we are still at the same cost per point ($20):

On top of this, they were slimmer on specials, but honestly I didn't push them for a good bargain to be mindful of everyone's time (they were looking a little sad): they didn't lead with a free interval week or two, no free HRC week or two, and just the standard FDI of WOH points. They also had the closing special to freeze the rate.

I completely forgot the June 2018 presentation but old me and new me came to the same conclusion - no way. I'm writing this here to remind myself...

To be able to deposit my 2,000 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $13,200 and I would end up with 2,000+ 660=2,660 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit my 2,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $18,400 and I would end up with 2,950+ 920=3,870 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit both 4,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $24,000 and I would end up with 4,950+1,200=6,150 HPP possible ("Premier").

(trivia: theoretically, someone wanting to get the Elite tier as efficiently as possible would want to start with 5,400 HRC points and spend $24k... not me...)

The benefits touted of HPP at this time by sales folks are:

. Reservation Request Advantage (Request List) - X-month Reservation Request Advantage for 1 reservation up to 7 nights (Classic/Executive/Premier) / 1 reservation up to 14 nights or 2 reservations up to 7 nights each (Elite), to access reservation in the HPP pool, where X=15/16/17/18 for the Classic/Executive/Premier/Elite.
. Accomodations Confirmation - (this one was nice if not pricey) Confirm the specific unit number/floor/view for an additional Y Portfolio points, where Y=100/75/50/25
. Stay One Day Reservations - use Portfolio points to book one-night stays up to 72 hours prior to day of arrival at a M discount, where M=0/0/10/30
. Boost Portfolio Points - Bank Portfolio points for an additional 2 years, borrow from future years up to 6 mo from arrival day.
. World of Hyatt Points - Convert any number of Portfolio points into WOH points at a rate of Z WOH per Portfolio point, where Z =41/43/45/50.

Besides the $20/pt upfront cost that made this a non-impulse buy are more importantly for our family:

1. No resale value of the HPP. Yikes.

2. Annual Fees and $133 HRC->HPP deposit fee. My 2,000+2,950=4,950 HRC points currently cost me ~$3,200/yr in annual fees or $0.64/pt. Spending $0.96/pt in annual fees is rough, plus add the (in the Papa Bear option of both units converted) $266/yr to deposit two HRC units into HPP - it ends up costing $1.18/pt, nearly double what I spend now. It's like they gave up on annual fee management.

Also my reservation fee of $60 under HPP is higher than $41 with HRC.

3. Too Complex. I know they talk about simplifying the Legacy CUP/LCUP program but the units our family covet are the five two-bedroom Carmel units, which all are in the HRC pool, as they were sold out years ago from the Developer.

So now every year we have to choose whether to deposit one or two HRC weeks into the HPP pool and spend the $133/yr per week? It just seems like too many decisions with too many unknowns, and we wouldn't want to spend $24k plus $1,400/yr in annual fees to regret depositing into HPP. Better just to not see the Portfolio units available on the web site - don't worry, be happy.

4. World of Hyatt. The old Developer benefit I gave up in Resale, it used to be 2,950 -> 120,000 or 2,000 -> 82,000 which was 41 WOH per HRC point. I never cared much for it, but it doesn't seem like a strong enough conversion to make this all worth it. Perhaps we're biased since we never had WOH benefits.

PS: The sales person made it sound like if you own (Developer, Resale) HRC in a resort you still get some sort of priority in booking CUP for that resort. That is news to me... is this true?

Great summary! Thank you for taking the time to break it all down. Yes, what a mess. What a ripoff. What a disaster. HPP represents the epitome of greed and avarice, and is a great reason why the timeshare industry rightly has such a miserable reputation. When a developer can come up with an incredibly complex program that facilitates the sales weasels to blow the top off the B.S. meter, coupled with the wide-eyed and unsuspecting newbies who just want to enjoy their vacation, you have all the ingredients for a stew that stinks like a stockyard. Way to go, ILG. Marriott, shame on you for perpetuating this travesty.