Hyatt Portfolio Points Program

[bdbrecheen]

We arrived at Bonita Springs yesterday. While we were checking in another couple was called up to the counter by another front desk clerk. I couldn’t help but over hear the conversation which went as follows. “ We just tried to get into our room and our key isn’t working. We actually made 2 reservations on Hotels.com. The first one was for Fri night and the seconds was for Sat and Sunday. Could that be the problem?” Well, they had my undivided attention at hotels.com. What has happened to Hyatt Residents Club? When we purchased our first property 15 1/2 yrs ago, we were sold on The exclusivity of the “club”. You had to be an owner. Now you can get a reservation on hotels.com. To say I was miffed would be an understatement. I will be at the owner’s meeting on Tuesday and intend to express my displeasure. Of course the company doesn’t care about how I feel about this situation, but I’m anxious to see how many owners know that the company is selling rooms on a discount hotel site. How many of you knew this was happening?

 

[dms1709]

We own there too, could you ask if they issue day passes??

 

[scsu_hockey_fan]

Well with the new building on the property, they do this to lure people there and make them go to a presentation to the sell them a timeshare.

We arrived at Bonita Springs yesterday. While we were checking in another couple was called up to the counter by another front desk clerk. I couldn’t help but over hear the conversation which went as follows. “ We just tried to get into our room and our key isn’t working. We actually made 2 reservations on Hotels.com. The first one was for Fri night and the seconds was for Sat and Sunday. Could that be the problem?” Well, they had my undivided attention at hotels.com. What has happened to Hyatt Residents Club? When we purchased our first property 15 1/2 yrs ago, we were sold on The exclusivity of the “club”. You had to be an owner. Now you can get a reservation on hotels.com. To say I was miffed would be an understatement. I will be at the owner’s meeting on Tuesday and intend to express my displeasure. Of course the company doesn’t care about how I feel about this situation, but I’m anxious to see how many owners know that the company is selling rooms on a discount hotel site. How many of you knew this was happening?

 

[bdbrecheen]

We own there too, could you ask if they issue day passes??

I will!

 

[djlorr2014]

The Owner's Update is carefully designed to maximize spin. Unless an owner does solid homework you will hear what you want to hear. Need to carefully listen to every word. They are targeting HRC owners to buy in at the minimum and provide their unit into the Portfolio. They have little or no expectation that HRC owners will purchase 2200 points @ $20/point. The minimum is 660 points @ $20/point. Higher points move you up in their Tier levels.

Buyers hear the story that you can get just about any reservation you want. Wrong. Getting on the Request List is NOT a confirmed reservation. Specific to Sunset Harbor this is a sure way to get into an extremely difficult resort. I mentioned that the Portfolio only had 20 unit-weeks for the entire year (out of 2000+ total). They confirmed that fact but said there would be LOTS more being available. The implication is the HPP will have access to the HRC inventory. IF HPP and HRC share a common single Wait List, that will put pressure on HRC availability. We will have to see how that plays out as the Rules call out two specific and separate Lists. They say the HPP has "Priority" but that's definitely Timeshare Huckster speak.

The HRC will have no access to new resorts so they are making a big push to roll out something new for HPP members. See the thread on the new Key West resort.

Buy back Portfolio points: Hyatt says they will buy back points, but the rules say it's at Hyatt's discretion but don't mention the price. Unlike selling resale, Hyatt is the sole option.

Maintenance Fees: For the first 12 weeks of the year you can elect to move your unit into the HPP for one year. You continue to pay MF on your HRC unit, but also pay MF on the HPP points you own. Today that MF is $0.83/point (660 points = $547).

Many owners exiting the update hold the Portfolio Program in extremely low regard.

Potential Impact to HRC: Effect on the HRC Wait List.

Kal,
Just went to a sales pitch. Some of the HPP program sounds pretty good as a HRP owner, 1. having 3 years to use points would be nice. 2.putting left over points into hotel points, any amount any time. 3. not placing the points into Interval unless we found something and the full amount would not have to be moved only what we would need.
However the spin on questions has me really wondering how this program will work so we decided against it. They implied that once everything is completed they can change the rules for the HRP owners that are not in the HPP program as well, what they call a Hybrid owner, is this true? One thing they implied that can change is that they will not need certain properties, of course she implied mine because it was in Key West she said Marriott has too many properties in Florida so they won't need that inventory so they could put a new rule that we would only have the option of using our unit, our week and not be able to trade into other properties as we do now, can this happen? It was truly a scare tactic, I hope. They also said that once everything is completed they might not allow certain properties to ever go into the HPP program as they will not need once Marriott deal is completed, I don't see this happening but how do we know our legal rights? Is there somewhere to see this?

 

[heathpack]

...not placing the points into Interval unless we found something and the full amount would not have to be moved only what we would need.

You currently don’t have to move points to Interval unless you find something and you only have to move what you need. That’s a feature of traditional Hyatt aResidence Club, not something that is new with HPP.

 

[djlorr2014]

I return from Carmel, where we went to my second presentation on the HPP. They stated that they were averaging almost $1million in sales a month, which to my math is 50k HPP a month, and almost 80% were going to "Hybrid" owners - folks who also own in the HRC. I do think we have a lot of HRC owners at Carmel who bought through the Developer so perhaps they are more likely to Go Hybrid than a Resale owner. Sounded like a tough sale for new owners without any points, though.

Originally they stated there were two options for HRC owners. First, Hyatt could purchase the HRC deed back, and then you could use the funds to apply to a HPP purchase. Second, you could purchase HPP on top of HRC.

When they learned we had purchased on the secondary market, they said option #1 was out of the question. (Later on, they admitted that one would not have that much savings at all on a buyback because Hyatt doesn't offer much.)

So "Resale HRC" owners are in a specific group (imagining many of you are in the same group) and this is what I found out they have for us (sorry if you have seen this document before, I hadn't so thought it might be interesting):

This shows how much needs to be spent in raw dollars to "bless" our "unauthorized" resale.

From my last visit in June, and the sales figures they quoted me now, I believe we are still at the same cost per point ($20):

On top of this, they were slimmer on specials, but honestly I didn't push them for a good bargain to be mindful of everyone's time (they were looking a little sad): they didn't lead with a free interval week or two, no free HRC week or two, and just the standard FDI of WOH points. They also had the closing special to freeze the rate.

I completely forgot the June 2018 presentation but old me and new me came to the same conclusion - no way. I'm writing this here to remind myself...

To be able to deposit my 2,000 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $13,200 and I would end up with 2,000+ 660=2,660 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit my 2,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $18,400 and I would end up with 2,950+ 920=3,870 HPP possible ("Executive").
To be able to deposit both 4,950 unit into HPP on an annual basis would cost $24,000 and I would end up with 4,950+1,200=6,150 HPP possible ("Premier").

(trivia: theoretically, someone wanting to get the Elite tier as efficiently as possible would want to start with 5,400 HRC points and spend $24k... not me...)

The benefits touted of HPP at this time by sales folks are:

. Reservation Request Advantage (Request List) - X-month Reservation Request Advantage for 1 reservation up to 7 nights (Classic/Executive/Premier) / 1 reservation up to 14 nights or 2 reservations up to 7 nights each (Elite), to access reservation in the HPP pool, where X=15/16/17/18 for the Classic/Executive/Premier/Elite.
. Accomodations Confirmation - (this one was nice if not pricey) Confirm the specific unit number/floor/view for an additional Y Portfolio points, where Y=100/75/50/25
. Stay One Day Reservations - use Portfolio points to book one-night stays up to 72 hours prior to day of arrival at a M discount, where M=0/0/10/30
. Boost Portfolio Points - Bank Portfolio points for an additional 2 years, borrow from future years up to 6 mo from arrival day.
. World of Hyatt Points - Convert any number of Portfolio points into WOH points at a rate of Z WOH per Portfolio point, where Z =41/43/45/50.

Besides the $20/pt upfront cost that made this a non-impulse buy are more importantly for our family:

1. No resale value of the HPP. Yikes.

2. Annual Fees and $133 HRC->HPP deposit fee. My 2,000+2,950=4,950 HRC points currently cost me ~$3,200/yr in annual fees or $0.64/pt. Spending $0.96/pt in annual fees is rough, plus add the (in the Papa Bear option of both units converted) $266/yr to deposit two HRC units into HPP - it ends up costing $1.18/pt, nearly double what I spend now. It's like they gave up on annual fee management.

Also my reservation fee of $60 under HPP is higher than $41 with HRC.

3. Too Complex. I know they talk about simplifying the Legacy CUP/LCUP program but the units our family covet are the five two-bedroom Carmel units, which all are in the HRC pool, as they were sold out years ago from the Developer.

So now every year we have to choose whether to deposit one or two HRC weeks into the HPP pool and spend the $133/yr per week? It just seems like too many decisions with too many unknowns, and we wouldn't want to spend $24k plus $1,400/yr in annual fees to regret depositing into HPP. Better just to not see the Portfolio units available on the web site - don't worry, be happy.

4. World of Hyatt. The old Developer benefit I gave up in Resale, it used to be 2,950 -> 120,000 or 2,000 -> 82,000 which was 41 WOH per HRC point. I never cared much for it, but it doesn't seem like a strong enough conversion to make this all worth it. Perhaps we're biased since we never had WOH benefits.

PS: The sales person made it sound like if you own (Developer, Resale) HRC in a resort you still get some sort of priority in booking CUP for that resort. That is news to me... is this true?

Thank you for all the information. Am I reading this right that if I give them $12,000 I can move my 2200 points to HPP and just be a HPP owner?
Also, they can take what I paid for my unit even though resale and apply to the purchase of HPP points?

 

[djlorr2014]

You currently don’t have to move points to Interval unless you find something and you only have to move what you need. That’s a feature of traditional Hyatt aResidence Club, not something that is new with HPP.

Thank you, I never knew that as we were told that we had to move our full week into Interval, I will have to look at that.

 

[heathpack]

Thank you, I never knew that as we were told that we had to move our full week into Interval, I will have to look at that.

I currently have 70 points in EEE in Interval. Just the leftovers from bookings I made with my 1880 pt Gold week.

Since the EEE points are good in Interval for 3 years, just move any leftover points into II each year. They all get pooled together and you can mix points from different years to book something.

Since I have these 70 points in II now, I’ll make sure I accumulate enough over the next few years to at least book a studio somewhere. A Westin Kaanapali studio is a nice use for your leftover points!

 

[AJCts411]

"...they will not need certain properties, of course she implied mine because it was in Key West she said Marriott has too many properties in Florida so they won't need that inventory so they could put a new rule that we would only have the option of using our unit, our week..." LOL, should of asked, tell me why there is talk of adding another TS resort in Key West? And let her explain why would Marriott dump a Key West Florida location that has a over 90% occupancy/use rate? It is true, is their lips are moving...lol.

 

[Texx]

The Owner's Update is carefully designed to maximize spin. Unless an owner does solid homework you will hear what you want to hear. Need to carefully listen to every word. They are targeting HRC owners to buy in at the minimum and provide their unit into the Portfolio. They have little or no expectation that HRC owners will purchase 2200 points @ $20/point. The minimum is 660 points @ $20/point. Higher points move you up in their Tier levels.

Buyers hear the story that you can get just about any reservation you want. Wrong. Getting on the Request List is NOT a confirmed reservation. Specific to Sunset Harbor this is a sure way to get into an extremely difficult resort. I mentioned that the Portfolio only had 20 unit-weeks for the entire year (out of 2000+ total). They confirmed that fact but said there would be LOTS more being available. The implication is the HPP will have access to the HRC inventory. IF HPP and HRC share a common single Wait List, that will put pressure on HRC availability. We will have to see how that plays out as the Rules call out two specific and separate Lists. They say the HPP has "Priority" but that's definitely Timeshare Huckster speak.

The HRC will have no access to new resorts so they are making a big push to roll out something new for HPP members. See the thread on the new Key West resort.

Buy back Portfolio points: Hyatt says they will buy back points, but the rules say it's at Hyatt's discretion but don't mention the price. Unlike selling resale, Hyatt is the sole option.

Maintenance Fees: For the first 12 weeks of the year you can elect to move your unit into the HPP for one year. You continue to pay MF on your HRC unit, but also pay MF on the HPP points you own. Today that MF is $0.83/point (660 points = $547).

Many owners exiting the update hold the Portfolio Program in extremely low regard.

Potential Impact to HRC: Effect on the HRC Wait List.

I went to an owners update today in San Antonio. We own two weeks both purchased on the resale market many years back. One a diamond and another a low point every other year.

The presentation was well done and the sales rep was very convincing. We gave it serious thought but ultimately decided not buy into the hpp program at this time. I share a few observations. Determining fact from fiction is often difficult in these types of presentations, and clarification and input by others would be helpful.

1. I was told that hpp points are now up to 21.10 a point. I was given options to first buy 1100, 1000, and then 660 points at 20 a point. When I told them I had purchased resale weeks years ago, they checked their computer and offered me a 1000 package at 16.81 a point, which honestly seemed like a good deal. I'm curious if others have been offered below retail rates? And if so at what terms?

2. They said that I had the option to move my hrc weeks into portfolio at the begining of every year. I would pay the hrc week maintenance fee which in my case is very low at 1250 per week and a 137 transfer fee, which would still be significantly lower than paying the hpp maintenance fee on the same amount of points. If this is the case why would anyone buy HPP outright ?

3. They explained various features of the hpp programs. Points good for three years, longer reservation periods, options to book one day at time, no booking or split week fees for portfolio reservations, and access to portfolio weeks. Sounded very promising. For the right price I think I would do it.

4. I asked about signing away my 1300 point every other week to them for free as part of the deal. They didn't want it..not even for free. What does one do with these types of weeks? (I purchased it before I found kal's very helpful website).

 

[SteelerGal]

now this is interesting.

 

[Kal]

now this is interesting.

2. They said that I had the option to move my hrc weeks into portfolio at the begining of every year. I would pay the hrc week maintenance fee which in my case is very low at 1250 per week and a 137 transfer fee, which would still be significantly lower than paying the hpp maintenance fee on the same amount of points. If this is the case why would anyone buy HPP outright ?...

For $42,200 a person could pick up 2,000 points. With that you don't even have a timeshare deed, but rather a handful of points. The only potential future "resale" buyer of those points is the HPP and there is absolutely no reason why they would buy them. I can't imagine being stuck with those MFs for life.

 

[SteelerGal]

For $42,200 a person could pick up 2,000 points. With that you don't even have a timeshare deed, but rather a handful of points. The only potential future "resale" buyer of those points is the HPP and there is absolutely no reason why they would buy them. I can't imagine being stuck with those MFs for life.

Interesting because of the speculation thread regarding how will MVC incorporate Vistana and Hyatt. Since I am an owner of both Westin and Hyatt, I wondered how Marriott would get VSN and HRC owners to convert to points. Well, the infrastructure is already established at HRC. However HRC owners still are not biting. The hybrid program is not working? So MVC needs to increase program so how will they?
I know MVC is still working on the licensing agreement however once it is completed, will they offer a “Club membership “ w/out purchases of points similarly to what occurred for the kick off of DC.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

We arrived at Bonita Springs yesterday. While we were checking in another couple was called up to the counter by another front desk clerk. I couldn’t help but over hear the conversation which went as follows. “ We just tried to get into our room and our key isn’t working. We actually made 2 reservations on Hotels.com. The first one was for Fri night and the seconds was for Sat and Sunday. Could that be the problem?” Well, they had my undivided attention at hotels.com. What has happened to Hyatt Residents Club? When we purchased our first property 15 1/2 yrs ago, we were sold on The exclusivity of the “club”. You had to be an owner. Now you can get a reservation on hotels.com. To say I was miffed would be an understatement. I will be at the owner’s meeting on Tuesday and intend to express my displeasure. Of course the company doesn’t care about how I feel about this situation, but I’m anxious to see how many owners know that the company is selling rooms on a discount hotel site. How many of you knew this was happening?

if I over hear those conversations, when I go to my next owners meeting and they try and sell me something I will loudly state why buy when you can purchase on hotels.com... You get enough people scaring away there potential customers in these meetings and thy might rethink their marketing. Ugh this makes me mad

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Interesting because of the speculation thread regarding how will MVC incorporate Vistana and Hyatt. Since I am an owner of both Westin and Hyatt, I wondered how Marriott would get VSN and HRC owners to convert to points. Well, the infrastructure is already established at HRC. However HRC owners still are not biting. The hybrid program is not working? So MVC needs to increase program so how will they?
I know MVC is still working on the licensing agreement however once it is completed, will they offer a “Club membership “ w/out purchases of points similarly to what occurred for the kick off of DC.

Cant see them doing this. We were told by Westin that we could still exchange the way we are with our Hyatt and Vistana but if we want to use this to be determined club membership we would have to purchase with Marriott. They did not know details. The issue is Marriott owners are many and will supposedly be able to exchange at the same time so our availability to trade would decline.

 

[SteelerGal]

Cant see them doing this. We were told by Westin that we could still exchange the way we are with our Hyatt and Vistana but if we want to use this to be determined club membership we would have to purchase with Marriott. They did not know details. The issue is Marriott owners are many and will supposedly be able to exchange at the same time so our availability to trade would decline.

Many believe that their would be an overlay but even MVC veterans doubt that it will be for free. DC had its initial buyin but now MVC is selling a hybrid package(deed/points). However resale purchases pre 2010 date, still can join DC for a nominal fee. VSN requires retro which but must bring in at least tens of thousands of dollars. And their options are still falling flat so will MVC offer a nominal fee to register into VSN instead of having to purchase points w/ a larger buy in.

 

[Sapper]

I went to an owners update today in San Antonio. We own two weeks both purchased on the resale market many years back. One a diamond and another a low point every other year.

The presentation was well done and the sales rep was very convincing. We gave it serious thought but ultimately decided not buy into the hpp program at this time. I share a few observations. Determining fact from fiction is often difficult in these types of presentations, and clarification and input by others would be helpful.

1. I was told that hpp points are now up to 21.10 a point. I was given options to first buy 1100, 1000, and then 660 points at 20 a point. When I told them I had purchased resale weeks years ago, they checked their computer and offered me a 1000 package at 16.81 a point, which honestly seemed like a good deal. I'm curious if others have been offered below retail rates? And if so at what terms?

2. They said that I had the option to move my hrc weeks into portfolio at the begining of every year. I would pay the hrc week maintenance fee which in my case is very low at 1250 per week and a 137 transfer fee, which would still be significantly lower than paying the hpp maintenance fee on the same amount of points. If this is the case why would anyone buy HPP outright ?

3. They explained various features of the hpp programs. Points good for three years, longer reservation periods, options to book one day at time, no booking or split week fees for portfolio reservations, and access to portfolio weeks. Sounded very promising. For the right price I think I would do it.

4. I asked about signing away my 1300 point every other week to them for free as part of the deal. They didn't want it..not even for free. What does one do with these types of weeks? (I purchased it before I found kal's very helpful website).

1. Thank you for letting us know about this. Others had mentioned that the sales weasels are now down to pushing a minimum 660 points, though I don’t recall recent pricing. Terms were just making resale units “whole”.

2. It seems some folks have bought in. Unfortunately, they then learn the HPP is not living up to what they were told/sold, want out and can’t sell. I don’t know anyone who has either successfully purchased or sold resale HPP points yet. Otherwise, HPP seems to be a failure.

3. No doubt, there are some interesting aspects to HPP. Unfortunately, the ridiculous costs associated with it and a number of other hidden negatives (ie, availability: something like six unit weeks at Sunset, so they sell the program as if they have availability there. Technically true, in reality untrue.) make it unattractive.

4. You almost have to give the EOY units away for free unless they are like diamond season at Pinion Pointe.

 

[SteelerGal]

@Sapper since HPP is a bust, if MVC does complete a licensing contract w/ Hyatt, do you envisions any changes to the program to increase buy in?

 

[Sapper]

Cant see them doing this. We were told by Westin that we could still exchange the way we are with our Hyatt and Vistana but if we want to use this to be determined club membership we would have to purchase with Marriott. They did not know details. The issue is Marriott owners are many and will supposedly be able to exchange at the same time so our availability to trade would decline.

Many believe that their would be an overlay but even MVC veterans doubt that it will be for free. DC had its initial buyin but now MVC is selling a hybrid package(deed/points). However resale purchases pre 2010 date, still can join DC for a nominal fee. VSN requires retro which but must bring in at least tens of thousands of dollars. And their options are still falling flat so will MVC offer a nominal fee to register into VSN instead of having to purchase points w/ a larger buy in.

At one point (back when Marriott first bought ILG) I had thought that Marriott would leave each system alone, create an overlay using II, and charge to use it. My suggestion was promptly shot down on the Marriott forum because they already have the DC thing, everyone else can just trade through that system, and why should DC owners have to pay again. Folks on the Marriott forum are a tough crowd sometimes.

I still think Marriott may do the overlay. It solves a bunch of problems related to points conversion equality (see discussions in both the Vistana and Marriott forums). It also allows MVC to make money off everyone, even the folks who paid to join DC as the overlay would be separate from DC. It does not irritate or alienate a large group of owners. Finally, it allows MVC to keep different brands to target different market segments going forward.

 

[Kal]

if I over hear those conversations, when I go to my next owners meeting and they try and sell me something I will loudly state why buy when you can purchase on hotels.com... You get enough people scaring away there potential customers in these meetings and thy might rethink their marketing. Ugh this makes me mad

Those HPP sales pitch sessions are conducted in individual rooms with a closed door. They definitely don't want any conversations to be overheard by other potential customers.

It would definitely be fun to have those discussions held at a desk in an open room. Any loud conversations could definitely be broadcast to others. The small room approach is better suited to applying a hot lamp to the would-be victim.

 

[Sapper]

@Sapper since HPP is a bust, if MVC does complete a licensing contract w/ Hyatt, do you envisions any changes to the program to increase buy in?

I think it depends which way management wants to go with things. If they want to create one pool of points, say in the DC program as the Marriott folks are pushing for, then having a substantial quantity of unsold point inventory they can dump into the pool would instantly give existing members access to Hyatt properties. Any current HPP owners who sell will have their sales taken by ROFR and dumped into this inventory, and they will stop selling HPP and only sell the DC (or what ever single point pool) program.

If they do the overlay as I described above, then management has to address the shortcomings in order to make sales. The biggest shortcoming is the initial buy in cost.

 

[Kal]

1. I was told that hpp points are now up to 21.10 a point. I was given options to first buy 1100, 1000, and then 660 points at 20 a point...

Interesting that the price point is $21.10. Then of course they drop it to $20. It would appear that they are trying to show demand for this lovely product. It would be very difficult for the HPP if they lowered the price point to anything less than the original $20. Existing buyers would not only be distressed that the HPP does not work but then they learn that it was selling at a discount to new buyers.

I may have to order up another bag of peanuts to watch this circus.

 

[Sapper]

Interesting that the price point is $21.10. Then of course they drop it to $20. It would appear that they are trying to show demand for this lovely product. It would be very difficult for the HPP if they lowered the price point to anything less than the original $20. Existing buyers would not only be distressed that the HPP does not work but then they learn that it was selling at a discount to new buyers.

I may have to order up another bag of peanuts to watch this circus.

Keep reading, the poster stated that they went down to $16.81 for a 1000 point package.

 

[SteelerGal]

I think it depends which way management wants to go with things. If they want to create one pool of points, say in the DC program as the Marriott folks are pushing for, then having a substantial quantity of unsold point inventory they can dump into the pool would instantly give existing members access to Hyatt properties. Any current HPP owners who sell will have their sales taken by ROFR and dumped into this inventory, and they will stop selling HPP and only sell the DC (or what ever single point pool) program.

If they do the overlay as I described above, then management has to address the shortcomings in order to make sales. The biggest shortcoming is the initial buy in cost.

Agree w/ the initial buyin. Why would I buy the hybrid when the current System works fine for me. However I know Wall Street isn’t going to look kindly to stagnate or lack of revenue growth.