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Hyatt Portfolio Points Program

peas

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Perryking - I read your post and went into a sale presentation. Hopefully this will address some of the good questions you brought up.

What I was told by the sales agent was that you can convert a week one at a time to WOH, but why would you? He told me the best way one would do that was to spend $133 for each week to convert to HPP ($133x3weeks=$399). Then after all your 3 weeks are in HPP, convert the points to WOH for one fee of $133. Of course, you could do one week at a time for a WOH conversion, but why would you want to incur 2 additional $133 fees. So in the 3 week scenario, in order to play in the WOH pool, you'd have to pay $532 a year for 3 weeks. They told me that I'd have to buy 1000 points to hyattize 2 weeks and 1500 points to hyattize 3 weeks.
BTW, the WOH conversion fee was clearly $133, not $127.

I also asked about the status and how it's determined. They said that status is based on how many points you convert to HPP that year. So if you had 6600 points of 3 diamond weeks that you could potentially convert to HPP and get that highest tier privilege, but you chose only to move 2200 points because you wanted to use your other 2 weeks, then you'd be at that lower tier level that year and all the privileges for that year would be the category associated with that. So then if in year 2, you converted all 6600 and also that the past year's 2200 rolled over to year 2, then those 2200 points would be subject to the privileges for that lower category of conversion while the 6600 would be subject to the privileges of that high tier category. It sounds like it's awfully hard for a person to keep up with things though I'd guess it's easy for a computer to keep track.

I was trying to think of a borrowing scenario and how that would work out based on your tier status when you have mixed bag of points with different tiers all combing to make one reservation. (I thought of this later so I never got to ask).

I also learned that you get 1 free housekeeping fee waiver for a low tier and 2 for the next tier and 3 for the next and 4 for that final tier. All I could think is that if you're a short term stayer, that's a lot of $60 fees that you'd have to pay. Housekeeping credits can not roll over like your points can.

I kind of feel bad for HPP owners regarding their wait request limits. In the legacy program, everyone has the right to request 18 mo out. In HPP the only way to get that is to have/convert 6600 points. The lowest tier only gets to request at 14 months out. They have to pay for something that legacy owners got for free.

Our conclusion like many of you was that the buy in was too high, the MF was too high for what you're getting. The WOH at 50:1 was break even at best (and our calculations were pretty generous to hyatt), but with all the fees, certain devaluation of WOH points in the future as with all airline miles and hotel points, and most likely us getting more likely a 43 or 45:1 conversion, it didn't make sense. We'd be better off cash paying as needed.

We thought about buying in at this time due to others depositing their weeks just to get more access to inventory, but I am not convinced the trust has weeks that I seek. What makes me feel even more strongly about this is that this summer, I get the feeling that they're only targeting current owners at the sales presentation. Our non-owner friends just got back from a trip to WOR using our points and never got approached for a sales presentation this past week (at check in or a call). This was quite different from our experience at WOR a month ago where we were asked at check in and then with another call. Upon hearing this, we thought back to the highlands inn presentation, and there were only owners there too. It may be a coincidence.

But my guess is that Hyatt is making a big push right now to only target current owners at presentations to tempt them into buying HPP to fund trust weeks to try to get decent inventory. I see why it may be tempting for resale owners that's not into maximizing value to hyattize to get WOH benefits, but I don't see a big draw for developer purchased owners to pay that much just to make more specific day stays (ex Fri-Sat only stays).

Sorry if I was rehashing some stuff. This thread is really long, and I'm sure I've missed reading some posts.
 

Kal

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But my guess is that Hyatt is making a big push right now to only target current owners at presentations to tempt them into buying HPP to fund trust weeks to try to get decent inventory...
A buyer off the street would have to pay north of $40K to get 2200 HPP points while the cost to an HRC owner would be $13K plus stupid fees. Their priority is to build up HPP inventory and make money. Targeting HRC owners fits that model.
 

jwmitchell02

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Last week, we attended an update at the Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch property. Of course the their focus was to sell us portfolio points. We currently own 4 weeks in Sedona. The sales rep was using a new "soon to be released" program called 'Beyond' as his marketing tool to encourage us to buy points. Has anyone else heard about this new program and if so, what is your interpretation? Thanks -
 

alameda94501

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Last week, we attended an update at the Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch property. Of course the their focus was to sell us portfolio points. We currently own 4 weeks in Sedona. The sales rep was using a new "soon to be released" program called 'Beyond' as his marketing tool to encourage us to buy points. Has anyone else heard about this new program and if so, what is your interpretation? Thanks -
We attended an owner update a few months ago and they talked about Beyond as well. No details at all.

What I found interesting is that they have been hyping Beyond for two years since inception of the HPC. For example, this was a blogger who revealed one of the first presentations, and they were already talking about Beyond:

http://www.thetimeshareguru.com/hyatt-residence-portfolio-program.html

Ultimately I suspect it's just a World of Hyatt FIND Experiences equivalent for HPC:

https://experiences.worldofhyatt.com/
 

jwmitchell02

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Thanks for your insight. From what we got out of the sales pitch, regardless many points you actually own, you're just a "few" points short of really having what you need to have the best experience in HRC.
 

Sapper

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We attended an owner update a few months ago and they talked about Beyond as well. No details at all.

What I found interesting is that they have been hyping Beyond for two years since inception of the HPC. For example, this was a blogger who revealed one of the first presentations, and they were already talking about Beyond:

http://www.thetimeshareguru.com/hyatt-residence-portfolio-program.html

Ultimately I suspect it's just a World of Hyatt FIND Experiences equivalent for HPC:

https://experiences.worldofhyatt.com/
That is interesting because the timeshare guru’s post predates the Marriott purchase, and “Beyond” is now being discussed at presentations as a way to utilize your points in the Marriott Explorer Collection.

Please see:
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-beyond.293027/
And
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-beyond.293028/

In the end, I felt it was a new spin to help sell HPP.

To me, this indicates Marriott and ILG were setting things up long before the actual purchase.
 

alameda94501

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Thanks for this!

Is the term Beyond used in Marriott, or is it just "Explorer Collection"? I think the idea of using points for non-timeshare had been around for a while, but if Marriott had called it "Beyond" that would support the spicy idea that this has been in the works for some time.

My question would be - Marriott's $595 enrollment for legacy owners got missed along the way, but they picked up useless Beyond...?



That is interesting because the timeshare guru’s post predates the Marriott purchase, and “Beyond” is now being discussed at presentations as a way to utilize your points in the Marriott Explorer Collection.

Please see:
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-beyond.293027/
And
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriott-beyond.293028/

In the end, I felt it was a new spin to help sell HPP.

To me, this indicates Marriott and ILG were setting things up long before the actual purchase.
 

Sapper

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Thanks for this!

Is the term Beyond used in Marriott, or is it just "Explorer Collection"? I think the idea of using points for non-timeshare had been around for a while, but if Marriott had called it "Beyond" that would support the spicy idea that this has been in the works for some time.

My question would be - Marriott's $595 enrollment for legacy owners got missed along the way, but they picked up useless Beyond...?
When I went to the “update”, they discussed the “Marriott Beyond” Program. It seemed like sales was just getting it figured out and could not show me anything on paper.
 

audax one

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Here's what I don't get - I am aware that Hyatt is trying to get people to exit from the traditional programs into the points based program. So imagine my surprise when I got an email today (26 March 2020) with an "offer" to exit my points based purchase (made in 2019) w/o any further obligation. Of course, I would have to eat the $32,000 I paid for 1600 points. Loathe as I to do that, yet, I am wondering would it be worth it. I am so unhappy with how this program is run, how much deception was baked in, how hard it is to actually use, how totally bogus the "perks" are, etc. If I could get a loss on my taxes by eating the 32K, it might be worth it. My worry is what are they really up to? What impact on carrying cost and usage be if I stay? Any insights on that would be appreciated. Thanks!!
 

alameda94501

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Hi @audax one

Sorry to hear that it was such a negative experience. Just a few questions: Do you already have an HRC (legacy) deeded week? Are they offering you any money? Do they have a person at Hyatt to contact? Do you use the Portfolio Points at all?

Would you mind cutting and pasting the email? I'm curious how they framed such an email to you.

----

On the surface, it just seems like a way for unhappy folks to stop paying the annual fees, especially if they aren't using the Portfolio Points. They get the points back to sell someone else for another $32k, lucky them. The downside for them is that it semi-publicly demonstrates they feel their Portfolio Points are worth $0 after a year.

I think a deeper written exchange is needed with someone from Hyatt. I am an HRC legacy owner but not a Portfolio owner, but I would ask if I were you:

1. Are you going to sweeten the pot with some $?
2. What would you provide me to help me write this off on my taxes? (I'm not sure you can do this easily without a deeded week, but I'm no tax expert.)
3. I have a buyer in mind who can beat your $0 for points, can you help me resell these points to them instead?
4. (If you have an HRC deeded week) If I give up the points can you at least guarantee me the chance to do the annual conversion to the Portfolio program?

I think that last question is a key one - it's really only the benefit of a legacy owner gaining 6mo early access to the Portfolio trust weeks.

Hope that helps. I'd love to see the email.
 

audax one

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Hi @audax one

Sorry to hear that it was such a negative experience. Just a few questions: Do you already have an HRC (legacy) deeded week? Are they offering you any money? Do they have a person at Hyatt to contact? Do you use the Portfolio Points at all?

Would you mind cutting and pasting the email? I'm curious how they framed such an email to you.

----

On the surface, it just seems like a way for unhappy folks to stop paying the annual fees, especially if they aren't using the Portfolio Points. They get the points back to sell someone else for another $32k, lucky them. The downside for them is that it semi-publicly demonstrates they feel their Portfolio Points are worth $0 after a year.

I think a deeper written exchange is needed with someone from Hyatt. I am an HRC legacy owner but not a Portfolio owner, but I would ask if I were you:

1. Are you going to sweeten the pot with some $?
2. What would you provide me to help me write this off on my taxes? (I'm not sure you can do this easily without a deeded week, but I'm no tax expert.)
3. I have a buyer in mind who can beat your $0 for points, can you help me resell these points to them instead?
4. (If you have an HRC deeded week) If I give up the points can you at least guarantee me the chance to do the annual conversion to the Portfolio program?

I think that last question is a key one - it's really only the benefit of a legacy owner gaining 6mo early access to the Portfolio trust weeks.

Hope that helps. I'd love to see the email.
Lotsa questions there. First, I cannot cut/paste the email, there is legalese at the bottom the expressly prohibits that.

I am in the points program, so there is no "deeded week". They are offering $0. They are only offering a "relinquishing of further maintenance payments" after this year is up. Most of your questions presume that I have a deeded week, so I cannot answer them. In summary: they are offering squat. Just a way to get out. I called them and they verified this. I have seven days, by the way, to make up my mind. I suspect the pressure is coming from Marriot, who took over the whole thing recently. God knows what is coming once they have cleared away as much old debris as they can.
 

alameda94501

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Got it. How do they even start the letter, is it something like "We think you might be unhappy with your purchase, so have we got a deal for you..."

It's pretty audacious to get your points back so they can resell them for another $32k.

On the other hand in down economies like 2008 their developer sales dropped precipitously. So maybe they can't resell it anyway.
 

Kal

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I suspect sales of the Portfolio Program has fallen off the cliff due to Covad-19. It would be interesting to see what "specials" will be forthcoming.

Spending $32K in itself could cause the buyer to see if the Portfolio Points could be used for reservations at any hospital ICU.
 

GTLINZ

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I am in the points program, so there is no "deeded week". They are offering $0. They are only offering a "relinquishing of further maintenance payments" after this year is up.
Sorry to hear about your predicament.

You have already dropped $32k into this mess and I would think it is time to make lemonade. The 1600 points should be able to get reservations that are worth more than the MF. There may be limited PP inventory but that should improve over time - and you have a jump on deeded owners with access to PP inventory with a waitlist request (likely more than 12 months out like deeded owners). You also have access to deeded weeks inventory 6 months out or can submit requests for deeded weeks inventory 18 months out which is the same as deeded owners. If you are not looking for peak season there are usually options 6 months out.

I bet they would love it if you turned it in. I also suspect you might get a better offer later. I too think they are trying to minimize the damage of how to straighten this out long term.
 
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audax one

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Sorry to hear about your predicament.

You have already dropped $32k into this mess and I would think it is time to make lemonade. The 1600 points should be able to get reservations that are worth more than the MF. There may be limited PP inventory but that should improve over time - and you have a jump on deeded owners with access to PP inventory with a waitlist request (likely more than 12 months out like deeded owners). You also have access to deeded weeks inventory 6 months out or can submit requests for deeded weeks inventory 18 months out which is the same as deeded owners. If you are not looking for peak season there are usually options 6 months out.

I bet they would love it if you turned it in. I also suspect you might get a better offer later. I too think they are trying to minimize the damage of how to straighten this out long term.
Well, I think we can all agree - they are up to something, and they ain't telling. I am trying, now, to find out if eating the loss of this "deeded property" could at least be written off taxes. That might not suck. It would make the effective loss less than $32K and get me out of the program.
 

audax one

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You need to carefully look at the IRS rules on timeshares. Those rules are very specific and you're not going to like what you see.
Yea, I asked my tax guy, he said I am out of luck. :(
 

Kal

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I guess we can add 2 + 2 together and conclude the IRS doesn't consider time share as anything but a pre-paid vacation and not real property. Now if you rent a unit you OWN, the IRS wants a piece of that action if there is a gain.
 

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Reading the HPP forum my head is spinning. I'm currently an owner for the legacy HRC program. I went to an owner presentation and could not really figure out the benefits, mainly because I was new and not fully understood the Legacy program to begin with. I'm trying to understand the benefit of buying the minimum (whatever that is) into the HPP program. If we assume due to Covid-19 I can buy them at $15 or $10 a point, is that still a bad deal? Is there a price where an expert would buy into the HPP? Can someone help me understand a bit better the benefits of buying into HPP. Thanks!
 

alameda94501

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Reading the HPP forum my head is spinning. I'm currently an owner for the legacy HRC program. I went to an owner presentation and could not really figure out the benefits, mainly because I was new and not fully understood the Legacy program to begin with. I'm trying to understand the benefit of buying the minimum (whatever that is) into the HPP program. If we assume due to Covid-19 I can buy them at $15 or $10 a point, is that still a bad deal? Is there a price where an expert would buy into the HPP? Can someone help me understand a bit better the benefits of buying into HPP. Thanks!
Yes, it's not easy to understand for a new Legacy owner.

The first thing to note is during COVID-19 you can only make life easier for yourself by not committing anything as the price is likely to go down, based on the 2008 Hyatt response. So if you bought anything, rescind, and sit back. There is zero chance of missing out these days.

Second, it's a bad deal to purchase even small point quantities of HPP because of the maintenance expenses per point, and HPP fees, not because of the initial $20/$15/$10 buy-in price.

The theoretical benefits of HPP for a HRC Legacy owner would be to buy "zero" HPP points but still be allowed to trade your week on an annual basis into the Portfolio Pool. This would gain you access to their inventory with 12 mo (instead of 6mo) access time. Their inventory is really only in Wild Oak in Texas and Coconut Plantation in Florida, with a minor in Carmel in California and Windward in Florida.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
 

GTLINZ

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Can someone help me understand a bit better the benefits of buying into HPP. Thanks!
I do not believe you will find many tuggers on this thread or on this forum who would agree that any benefits of buying into HPP are worth the associated costs. The most glaring issue will be understood once you do some research on the resale value of HPP points - which appears to be close to zero.
 

Kal

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... The most glaring issue will be understood once you do some research on the resale value of HPP points - which appears to be close to zero.
I would suggest the resale value of HPP points is ZERO, rather than "close to zero". :)
 

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Yes, it's not easy to understand for a new Legacy owner.

The first thing to note is during COVID-19 you can only make life easier for yourself by not committing anything as the price is likely to go down, based on the 2008 Hyatt response. So if you bought anything, rescind, and sit back. There is zero chance of missing out these days.

Second, it's a bad deal to purchase even small point quantities of HPP because of the maintenance expenses per point, and HPP fees, not because of the initial $20/$15/$10 buy-in price.

The theoretical benefits of HPP for a HRC Legacy owner would be to buy "zero" HPP points but still be allowed to trade your week on an annual basis into the Portfolio Pool. This would gain you access to their inventory with 12 mo (instead of 6mo) access time. Their inventory is really only in Wild Oak in Texas and Coconut Plantation in Florida, with a minor in Carmel in California and Windward in Florida.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
Good point about HPP being worth $0 in secondary market. Since I plan on using this for another 10 years at least to me it seemed the value was/is access to inventory earlier and going forward in the future if they build new locations, which I guess they haven't yet so? For that I was willing to pay some money even knowing it would be worth $0 on the secondary market immediately. I was not aware that inventory is only at Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation.
 

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Good point about HPP being worth $0 in secondary market. Since I plan on using this for another 10 years at least to me it seemed the value was/is access to inventory earlier and going forward in the future if they build new locations, which I guess they haven't yet so? For that I was willing to pay some money even knowing it would be worth $0 on the secondary market immediately. I was not aware that inventory is only at Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation.
Yea, I am going down with the ship here. I cannot recover that $32K. I want to get some use out of it before I walk away from it (or give it away). Inventory is not officially just at those two locations, not sure where you are getting that. Presumably there are many locations (one of the lies, I mean, selling points). I am aware that the Sarasota location is essentially never available. It was lies on top of more lies. I hope there is a class action suit someday, I would join it immediately.
 

GTLINZ

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Yea, I am going down with the ship here. I cannot recover that $32K.
Very sorry to hear that you were mislead. I would also say you have plenty of company on Tug with people who were taken advantage of - but we are here now and we learn to 1) not get swindled again and 2) maximize the use of what we have.

Siesta Key is not a typical weekly ownership - it is fractional (usually larger chunks of time). I think somebody has to decide they want to use Hyatt points and turn in some of their time for it to be available. So I don't think it becomes available by default at 6 months out if a reservation for it is not made. That would explain why availability is rare.

The PP locations you have the booking advantage on are not plentiful at this point but may become so later if corporate keeps buying legacy weeks. But you do have access to HRC weeks also and I hope you decide to use what you have - it will eventually give you some payback that will ease the pain. Each year I use my points I get more value out of them that the MFs I pay in.

One real advantage of Hyatt is inventory in the Keys - so if you like the area it is not that hard to book outside of snowbird time.
 
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