Holy Smokes. In Nov/Dec 2019, Four Wyndham Transfers w 1/19 use year

[Grammarhero]

All of you touch on what I think is wrong with this whole thread.
What starts out looking so innocent turns into a exploitation used by many that gets out of hand like the credit pool did.
I don’t think many here realize how many read TUG that never post.
What looks isolated that 1 or 2 owners are doing or thinking of doing is picked up by many that didn’t post in this thread.

So what happens now:
We all complain on how long it takes resell contracts to transfer.
Now this Ovation exploitation might add months to the Ovations process. That only hurts the owners wanting out for the right reasons.
Is Wyndham going to have to start researching an owners account that wants to use Ovations?

Grammerhero you use the word scheme, are schemes legal or within the rules? Yes most of the time.
But when those schemes are shut down are the ramifications—rule changes that effect all of us worth it ? No
How many thousands of TS owners stop paying MFs due to what they read in your post? We don’t know

Is TUG the place for schemes?? I don’t think it should be
Knowledge doesn’t have to be used to scheme or exploit

I never advocated not paying MF unless as a last resort. If Wyndham bans my booking privileges, then of course I would stop paying MF. I’m not getting the usage to which I was originally entitled, with Wyndham originally breaking the TS contract.

Many of your concerns are speculative. Nothing has happened yet, and I haven’t even used 2020 points yet! I do feel a lot of your anger is misplaced. You are angry at Ron Parise for the torpedoed credit pool. Fine, but no need to misplace that anger at me.

And what of the three retail owners I guided through the Wyndham LE program for free? Wyndham didn’t even tell them about the three years free usage. I had to tell them about it.

 

[Braindead]

I never advocated not paying MF unless as a last resort. If Wyndham bans my booking privileges, then of course I would stop paying MF. I’m not getting the usage to which I was originally entitled, with Wyndham originally breaking the TS contract.

Many of your concerns are speculative. Nothing has happened yet, and I haven’t even used 2020 points yet! I do feel a lot of your anger is misplaced. You are angry at Ron Parise for the torpedoed credit pool. Fine, but no need to misplace that anger at me.

And what of the three retail owners I guided through the Wyndham LE program for free? Wyndham didn’t even tell them about the three years free usage. I had to tell them about it.

I’m not specifically talking about Wyndham, I’m talking all TS owners

 

[Grammarhero]

I’m not specifically talking about Wyndham, I’m talking all TS owners

Okay. So blaming me for an alleged scheme that @raygo123 says is not new and has been going on for years? That means other TS owners and Wyndham have already thought about them.

So how do I get the blame from you for what others TS owners have already thought, via raygo? Seems like you blame me for a lot, including a lot of things outside my control.

 

[Grammarhero]

All of you touch on what I think is wrong with this whole thread.
What starts out looking so innocent turns into a exploitation used by many that gets out of hand like the credit pool did.
I don’t think many here realize how many read TUG that never post.
What looks isolated that 1 or 2 owners are doing or thinking of doing is picked up by many that didn’t post in this thread.

So what happens now:
We all complain on how long it takes resell contracts to transfer.
Now this Ovation exploitation might add months to the Ovations process. That only hurts the owners wanting out for the right reasons.
Is Wyndham going to have to start researching an owners account that wants to use Ovations?

Grammerhero you use the word scheme, are schemes legal or within the rules? Yes most of the time.
But when those schemes are shut down are the ramifications—rule changes that effect all of us worth it ? No
How many thousands of TS owners stop paying MFs due to what they read in your post? We don’t know

Is TUG the place for schemes?? I don’t think it should be
Knowledge doesn’t have to be used to scheme or exploit

Wow. I’m now being blamed for thousands of TS owners not paying MF. That is non-sensical.

 

[Grammarhero]

This thread is Sooo... entertaining. There are many previous posts with advice to disappointed retail timeshare owners. People who didn't know about the rescission period. Couldn't reserve at 6 mos. Had maintenance fees rise. A change in health. Lost a spouse. These people just wanted to get out of their timeshare without a hassle.

The advice was to NOT stop paying maintenance fees, but to "morally" dispose of the unused timeshare. Maybe offer it for free. Pay next year's maintenance fees. Pay the transfer fee. Maybe throw in a gift card. Do the "right thing."

Now it appears that doing the "right thing" hurts them and definitely benefits someone else. If I was in the above described position, I think I would just stop paying maintenance fees. No reason to give money to some "shrewd" Tug member.

Morals aside about not burdening other Ts owners, the 50-75 FICO pt slide is important. For free, I helped a widow through her home loan mod. She lost 50 FICO pts from a TS foreclosure. She did write an addendum to the credit report.

I learned from the home loan mod vendor that had she not foreclosed, her interest rate would have been 0.13 lower or worth about $2k. That 50-75 pt slide is nothing to take lightly. Had she just deeded back even at $1k lost, that would have been financially better.

 

[Jan M.]

It wasn’t actually my plan at the outset. Just a possibility in case life changes and my wife’s boss keeps torpedoing our Ts vacations. Yes, I took Star Island, CWA, and Ocean Walk with one year free usage. If Wyndham doesn’t take back, I at least got one year free usage and can be happy with that. I actually like my GD very much.

We own at 308,000 points at Grand Desert. I often recommend buying there to people looking to buy more points and newbies.

So take your kids and go on ahead if your wife can get away for at least part of the stay. One of the nice things about having points is you can schedule your stays around the dates you find cheap flights. If you don't belong to the Facebook group Wyndham Owners Helping Owners then ask to join. Ask what resorts other people recommend for younger kids.

When I was working I was the one with the work schedule we had to work around. We learned to make it work. When we moved to Florida it was for my husband to take a new job and he had to start over with a lot less vacation than he previously had. I didn't go back to work so now our situations were reversed. From the age of 62-66 I packed up the car and drove to Orlando or Sanibel Island or back home with our granddaughter who was 2-6. My husband joined us for part of the stays if he wasn't able to come for the entire stay.

I mentioned staying at Star Island to you and staying in building 25 because of it's proximity to the playground, mini golf and pool. It is an easy resort and building to be in with younger children. This is a big deal when you are by yourself with a younger child or children. The playground is a nice one and when they have lots of energy and you need a break it's so nice be able to just walk out of our building to the playground and sit on a bench while they play. Another reason my husband and I like this resort for our granddaughters is that the pool isn't as crowded as Bonnet Creek. My husband always seems to find a dad or another grandfather to talk to while they stand there watching the kids play together in the pool or splash pad.

We also like Star Island because it is close to a number of restaurants. Some restaurants are much easier than others to eat at when you are by yourself with kids or even when you have two adults! The Golden Corrals in Orlando are good ones and offer good, healthy food choices. While my husband and I care about the healthy food choices that isn't why our granddaughters look forward to eating there. Yes they have Golden Corrals not far from where they live but they are horrible. The Golden Corral in Orlando that we eat at makes cotton candy and have it in bags. We get our bags right away to make sure they don't run out; learned that the hard way. However the bags of cotton candy go back to the resort with us for a treat or movie night later. They also have a chocolate fountain. The girls have to wait to go to the chocolate fountain until Grandma is done eating. Since Grandma gets the girls plates ready first and Grandma is purposely a slow eater it's surprising how much more they can be convinced to eat while they are waiting. I recommend using a bib for the chocolate fountain treats. The 8 year old is tall enough to do her own strawberries and marshmallows in the chocolate fountain with supervision and I pick the 3 year old up and guide her hand to do hers. I try to sit at a table close to the desert bar. The visual reminder of the treat you get when you do a good job of eating your meal works very well to motivate them. Plus I never rush them through desert just in case they would have room for one more chocolate covered strawberry. Our other meal tradition with the girls is Amore Monday at Carrabbas. I order the fettuccine weesie that has shrimp in it because the oldest granddaughter loves it and she loves salad too. I also order one kids meal, the grilled chicken and steamed broccoli. The girls and I share the salad and when our meals come I divide everything up so we all have some of everything. Although by choice I get most of the grilled chicken and not much of the fettuccine with alfredo sauce. With the Amore Monday meals you get either an appetizer or a desert. I order the John Cole for desert. It's vanilla ice cream with caramel sauce and sugared pecans. I put some on a plate for the 3 year old and the 8 year old and I share the dish it comes in. She accuses me of hogging the caramel sauce and I tell her that I'm counting how many of the nuts she's had to make sure I get my share. Neither of which is true but is still something we do and laugh about every time we eat there. Special treats and favorite meals on vacations will also build memories.

Ocean Walk is another resort that is very kid friendly. The kid's water play area is fun. The beach is flat and firmer for the kids to play in the sand. Little kids aren't great about walking through loose sand and not having to carry them and their beach toys through the loose sand is less work for the adults. Because the resort is so tall it shades the beach in the late afternoon/early evening. So no need to sunscreen everyone up. We try to eat a little earlier and let the granddaughters have time to play in the sand before bedtime. It wears them out nicely. There is indoor mini golf at Ocean Walk and there is a little kid's play room.

 

[paxsarah]

3. Why not just get the 4th year, also. You could borrow the 2022 points and use them in Jan/Feb 2021.

Wyndham will not complete an Ovation process without future years’ points accounted for. This was part of the requirements when I used Ovation earlier this year: “Point’s usage: Future year’s points must be unused or reservation must be canceled or point rental option is also available.”

So if Ovation was started in 2021, 2022 points would need to be available or paid for if already used.

 

[Grammarhero]

We own at 308,000 points at Grand Desert. I often recommend buying there to people looking to buy more points and newbies.

So take your kids and go on ahead if your wife can get away for at least part of the stay. One of the nice things about having points is you can schedule your stays around the dates you find cheap flights. If you don't belong to the Facebook group Wyndham Owners Helping Owners then ask to join. Ask what resorts other people recommend for younger kids.

When I was working I was the one with the work schedule we had to work around. We learned to make it work. When we moved to Florida it was for my husband to take a new job and he had to start over with a lot less vacation than he previously had. I didn't go back to work so now our situations were reversed. From the age of 62-66 I packed up the car and drove to Orlando or Sanibel Island or back home with our granddaughter who was 2-6. My husband joined us for part of the stays if he wasn't able to come for the entire stay.

I mentioned staying at Star Island to you and staying in building 25 because of it's proximity to the playground, mini golf and pool. It is an easy resort and building to be in with younger children. This is a big deal when you are by yourself with a younger child or children. The playground is a nice one and when they have lots of energy and you need a break it's so nice be able to just walk out of our building to the playground and sit on a bench while they play. Another reason my husband and I like this resort for our granddaughters is that the pool isn't as crowded as Bonnet Creek. My husband always seems to find a dad or another grandfather to talk to while they stand there watching the kids play together in the pool or splash pad.

We also like Star Island because it is close to a number of restaurants. Some restaurants are much easier than others to eat at when you are by yourself with kids or even when you have two adults! The Golden Corrals in Orlando are good ones and offer good, healthy food choices. While my husband and I care about the healthy food choices that isn't why our granddaughters look forward to eating there. Yes they have Golden Corrals not far from where they live but they are horrible. The Golden Corral in Orlando that we eat at makes cotton candy and have it in bags. We get our bags right away to make sure they don't run out; learned that the hard way. However the bags of cotton candy go back to the resort with us for a treat or movie night later. They also have a chocolate fountain. The girls have to wait to go to the chocolate fountain until Grandma is done eating. Since Grandma gets the girls plates ready first and Grandma is purposely a slow eater it's surprising how much more they can be convinced to eat while they are waiting. I recommend using a bib for the chocolate fountain treats. The 8 year old is tall enough to do her own strawberries and marshmallows in the chocolate fountain with supervision and I pick the 3 year old up and guide her hand to do hers. I try to sit at a table close to the desert bar. The visual reminder of the treat you get when you do a good job of eating your meal works very well to motivate them. Plus I never rush them through desert just in case they would have room for one more chocolate covered strawberry. Our other meal tradition with the girls is Amore Monday at Carrabbas. I order the fettuccine weesie that has shrimp in it because the oldest granddaughter loves it and she loves salad too. I also order one kids meal, the grilled chicken and steamed broccoli. The girls and I share the salad and when our meals come I divide everything up so we all have some of everything. Although by choice I get most of the grilled chicken and not much of the fettuccine with alfredo sauce. With the Amore Monday meals you get either an appetizer or a desert. I order the John Cole for desert. It's vanilla ice cream with caramel sauce and sugared pecans. I put some one a plate for the 3 year old and the 8 year old and I share the dish. She accuses me of hogging the caramel sauce and I tell her that I'm counting how many of the nuts she's had to make sure I get my share. Neither of which is true but is still something we do and laugh about every time we eat there. Special treats and favorite meals on vacations will also build memories.

Ocean Walk is another resort that is very kid friendly. The kid's water play area is fun. The beach is flat and firmer for the kids to play in the sand. Little kids aren't great about walking through loose sand and not having to carry them and their beach toys through the loose sand is less work for the adults. Because the resort is so tall it shades the beach in the late afternoon/early evening. So no need to sunscreen everyone up. We try to eat a little earlier and let the granddaughters have time to play in the sand before bedtime. It wears them out nicely. There is indoor mini golf at Ocean Walk and there is a little kid's play room.

Thanks for letting me know. I screen shot this for upcoming trips.

 

[CO skier]

I never excused Ron P, you better go back & search some post before you make accusations.

The following searched quote is from the context of cancel/rebook, and before Wyndham put the hammer down on that and stripped contracts in 2017, and then a number of people became enlightened and change their opinions, but still

I have to back Ron & other renters on this they are NOT scammers. I have never read a post where they advocate or do anything outside of the program guidelines Wyndham set up. They simply understand the system and use it to full advantage . Then they turn around and share that knowledge with the rest of us . They should be applauded for this .Wyndham might make some changes after they get get their eyes opened wide on what the current system allows. You may like the changes Wyndham makes in the future. But call Ron and other scammers is totally off base

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ew-email-accts-suspended.245656/#post-1920405

So, according to the Braindead standards ...

Did the OP " advocate or do anything outside of the program guidelines Wyndham set up?"

Did the OP "simply understand the system and use it to full advantage?"

Did the OP "share that knowledge with the rest of us?"

Should the OP be "applauded for this [sharing of knowledge]?"

 

[CO skier]

I was new to TUG at the time the Credit Pool was eliminated. I listened to the almighty RP and held my breath from saying much as I was new. While I can not fault him for doing what he did, I sure as hell can blame him for many of the changes since his scheme was discovered and stopped. You do not want to be like RP, he was the TS god to some and the TS devil to others.

Once again, the following quoted post pre-dates the restrictions put in place by Wyndham on the credit pool, and when many including RP, became enlightened and changed their opinions, but he did kind of ask for the blame.

They understand now, I assure you... My bet is that Voyager was ready to go months ago, but they had to add some features to address the things they learned after talking to some of us suspendees. If there is a wait list or anything to restrict cancel and rebook, you can probably thank me and the others

sorry

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...l-accts-suspended.245656/page-71#post-1992647
​

 

[CO skier]

My fear is that what you are doing, legally, will come back to bite us via new and/or more rigid rules.

Credit pool was exploited by some.
Credit pool gets shut down.
Ovations gets exploited by some.
Then what happens??

If Wyndham has not already done so, they accept only deeds with the full Use Year of points available into the Ovation Program. Simple.

The Ovation program is completely different from Club Wyndham rules, and it has nothing to do with the upcoming Privileges VIP program. Wyndham can change in any way, or cease the Ovation program altogether at any time.

I think the Ovation program is here to stay, but it has a budget for deedbacks, and the program will expand or contract as that budget is spent.

 

[raygo123]

If there’s anybody that should research before accusations, it’s @raygo123, who accused me of illegal or prohibited conduct without researching Florida laws. Of course, you will excuse raygo’s conduct while criticizing me for not doing enough research.

No I didn't accuse you of anything. It's not the real estate laws that matter. That's as easy as giving back a house you bought last year. Your breaking the club rules. As far as Ovations your completely at Wyndham's whims. F Lee Bailey couldn't even help you
As soon as Wyndham pushed the button to see there are no points attached for the use year your busted. But don't worry it will never get that far as Wyndham, has not changed the law, but have the rules. In which all your degrees are rendered useless.all you have to do is try it. All your degrees and research are mute. Is that the right word, mute. Like useless? You have to consider what you don't know rather than what you do know.

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[CO skier]

This thread is déjà vu all over again versus another recent TUG thread.

Sellers set the terms of their offer for a timeshare sale and many other items. Potential buyers choose to accept those terms or not, maybe negotiate.

They are somewhat rare, but there are Wyndham deeds that will sell and transfer before the end of the Use Year with all points available. The seller set the terms.

Ovation is different. Wyndham offers to accept deedbacks at no cost to the seller. In this case, the buyer sets the terms of the transfer. Sellers may choose to accept the terms, or not. Wyndham may limit or withdraw their Ovation program at any time and re-instate it later.

There is much speculation about the terms of Ovation, because few details are available in writing. I thought that Ovation started requiring the current years points to be available in order to complete an Ovation transfer after Wyndham got burned by some megarenters. Recently, there are unconfirmed reports from one individual that this is not the case. Ovation is a black box. Who knows? Only Wyndham, and that may change from time to time.

Whether a deed will be accepted back by Wyndham through Ovation, or not, is a risk any future premeditated Ovationite will have to accept; there is definitely no guarantee that Ovation will accept any particular deed.

With all this in mind, I do not understand the fulmination in this thread. It is just buyers and sellers meeting on their terms over timeshare contracts that have no value or negative value, like toooo many other timeshares.

I do not know why I was on the OP cc: list, but my opinion is that the sellers of the Wyndham deeds that transferred in November and December are likely delighted to be free from their maintenance fee obligations. Happy sellers; happy buyer. Now the deeds are the buyer’s millstones, and Wyndham will manage the Ovation program in any way they see fit.

Merry Christmas, and to all a good night.

 

[capital city]

Seems pretty simple to me

1. You should look to buy towards the end of the use year to obtain "free" points. We all should know this already.
2. You should look to get rid of points at the beginning of a use year and possibly use that years points first. We should all know this already
3. Dont abuse those practices and plan to do BOTH from the beginning within just a couple of years. We all should know this already

All agree?

 

[dgalati]

@Braindead @bendadin @raygo123 you all seem inconsistent in excusing @ronparise for his large-scale “strip scheme,” but criticizing @dgalati for his small-scale “strip scheme” and me for my not yet executed “strip scheme.” I haven’t even used my 2020 points yet. I might even keep my GD.

It just seems inconsistent and unfair.

No strip scheme going on. Just a owner using points available to their advantage. No different then a VIP buying millions of resale points and using the resale points to their advantage with a VIP 50% discount. Many VIP owners talk about morals and ethics and were coached by Wyndham sales to use or abuse the cancel/rebook loophole to their advantage. Now they openly brag about being able to take advantage and abuse the loophole of using millions of resale points as VIP a benefit. How long do you think it will take before Wyndham puts a end to this loophole?

 

[Grammarhero]

@Braindead loses most, if not all, of his/her moral credibility and high ground in condemning me for a potential, isolated strip operation, but excusing and defending Ron Parise for his large-scale strip operation.

@Braindead’s claim that I am somehow responsible for thousands of TS owners not paying MF is non-sensical. Really? Worse yet, he/she is making such claim without research, but at the same time demanding I research in claiming he/she is consistent.

I guess braindead is comfortable with double standards.

 

[dgalati]

@Braindead loses most, if not all, of his/her moral credibility and high ground in condemning me for a potential, isolated strip operation, but excusing and defending Ron Parise for his large-scale strip operation.

@Braindead’s claim that I am somehow responsible for thousands of TS owners not paying MF is non-sensical. Really? Worse yet, he/she is making such claim without research, but at the same time demanding I research in claiming he/she is consistent.

I guess braindead is comfortable with double standards.

I wonder if BD ever took advantage of the so called loophole of cancel/rebook . Many VIP owners took advantage of this loophole and morals and ethics were not a concern to them when they used the system to their advantage.

 

[Grammarhero]

@bendadin @raygo123 did you ever use the cancel/rebook loophole?

 

[bestpal38]

@bendadin @raygo123 did you ever cancel/rebook?

I cancel and rebook now. I just make sure I book, before I cancel. Do it all the time. I book what I need, then I keep an eye out at 60 days for the points to drop, and as long as there is availability, I can book a room, then cancel the higher point room. I don't see a problem with this.

 

[Grammarhero]

I cancel and rebook now. I just make sure I book, before I cancel. Do it all the time. I book what I need, then I keep an eye out at 60 days for the points to drop, and as long as there is availability, I can book a room, then cancel the higher point room. I don't see a problem with this.

We are referring to the old credit pool cancel/rebook. Unless I’m wrong, peeps would first book using current and next year points, then cancel for which next year points accelerate to current year, and finally rebook. Some people then sold or deeded back the stripped contract without next year’s points.

 

[raygo123]

It is unfortunate that you feel everyone is acusing you. When I and others were trying to explain that this has been tried, worked for a while until Wyndham changed the rules. Instead of accepting what has been said wrong or right, you challenged, you took as an attack instead. Instead of taking the example that Ron has been there done that, you felt personally attacked. Calm down. Accept the information as trying to help you from taking a course of action that has been done, quite successfully but that the "club rules" have been changed. That there are BOTH club rules as well as the real estate law. It doesn't matter what state or the laws for each. The real estate laws has nothing to do with Wyndham. It is other owners that makes up the HOA. That is who you will be dealing with if you choose to default, Wyndham has no skin in the game when it comes to forclosure . It's the owners like me and you who are harmed. Wyndham is a management company that also runs an exchange club just like RCI. YOU VOLUNTARILY JOIN club Wyndham. If you don't like the rules you should not have joined.

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[bendadin]

.

 

[bendadin]

.

 

[Grammarhero]

It is unfortunate that you feel everyone is acusing you. When I and others were trying to explain that this has been tried, worked for a while until Wyndham changed the rules. Instead of accepting what has been said wrong or right, you challenged, you took as an attack instead. Instead of taking the example that Ron has been there done that, you felt personally attacked. Calm down. Accept the information as trying to help you from taking a course of action that has been done, quite successfully but that the "club rules" have been changed. That there are BOTH club rules as well as the real estate law. It doesn't matter what state or the laws for each. The real estate laws has nothing to do with Wyndham. It is other owners that makes up the HOA. That is who you will be dealing with if you choose to default, Wyndham has no skin in the game when it comes to forclosure . It's the owners like me and you who are harmed. Wyndham is a management company that also runs an exchange club just like RCI. YOU VOLUNTARILY JOIN club Wyndham. If you don't like the rules you should not have joined.

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I don't feel everyone is accusing me, just you and @Braindead, who now says I'm somehow responsible for thousands of TS owners not paying MF. I thank and respect @bendadin and @Eric B being fair and consistent in criticizing my potential Wyndham use strategy.

For gosh's sake, a mod posted reminding folks not to make personal attacks or behavior lectures. @Braindead is certainly guilty of both. Worse yet, he/she has inconsistently excused and defended Ron Parise for his large-scale, strip operations.

 

[Grammarhero]

Not in your case. If they were dead they would be rolling over in their graves.

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So, how was this your trying to provide helpful information?