Holy Smokes. In Nov/Dec 2019, Four Wyndham Transfers w 1/19 use year

[cbyrne1174]

Does wyndham take back ocean walk and star island?

 

[raygo123]

It can be done. Timing is of essence.

I will give you three to one odds he gets nothing if they take them back at all. Wyndham will NEVER has or never will give anyone anything for a resale contract. How do I know? I turned in my FOXRUN.to ovations and received nothing ziltch zip. The original scheme was to buy a contract strip the points and then resale it. Wyndham will not accept a stripped contract. You may sell the contract but Wyndham will not accept it. And eventually he will end up still owning it. So not only can he kiss his $2/1000 points but will end up with paying thee maintenance fees on those contracts. The whole idea is about hree years to late. That "loophole" no longer exists.

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[Braindead]

I will give you three to one odds he gets nothing if they take them back at all. Wyndham will NEVER has or never will give anyone anything for a resale contract. How do I know? I turned in my FOXRUN.to ovations and received nothing ziltch zip. The original scheme was to buy a contract strip the points and then resale it. Wyndham will not accept a stripped contract. You may sell the contract but Wyndham will not accept it. And eventually he will end up still owning it. So not only can he kiss his $2/1000 points but will end up with paying thee maintenance fees on those contracts. The whole idea is about hree years to late. That "loophole" no longer exists

You don’t understand what they’re describing.
The 3 years for 14 or 15 months of MFs works like this.
The contract transfers in November-December & you put 2019 points into RCI since it’s a resell account that’s the only option.
Use 2020 points
Then one of two things follow
1.Borrow 2021 points for 2020 reservations. Then start Ovations process in December 2020 by the time your contract is transferred to Wyndham its 2021 & dgalati claims Wyndham doesn’t care if you’ve already used all 2021 points. Start to end in 14 or 15 months getting 3 years worth of points.
2. Start Ovations process December 2020, in January 2021 put your 2021 points into RCI before the contracts transfers to Wyndham. Again dgalati claims Wyndham doesn’t care if you’ve transferred the 2021 points to RCI. Again start to end in 14-15 months getting 3 years worth of points.

Dgalati brags that he doesn’t use Ovations instead he sells the contracts to Wyndham through a third party wholesale buyer.

From what dgalati has posted this loophole may have been closed. Wyndham has told dgalati if he does this next year he’ll have to pay the rental rate of $12 per 1k points. So after this whole thread it may already be a loophole that’s been closed.

So all the bragging & gloating going on in is thread is probably not going to work & it shouldn’t work!!!!

 

[Cyrus24]

Just curious.

1. Were you able to use all of those 2019 points at this late stage in the year? Or did you dump them into RCI?
2. In 2021, do you plan on using all of your points before sending the stripped contracts to Ovations? Borrowing them into 2020, I'm guessing? Will you be renting units at 50% discounts or at a 67% discount, passing along your savings?
3. Why not just get the 4th year, also. You could borrow the 2022 points and use them in Jan/Feb 2021.

Quite a plan. Hope you are able to execute. While Wyndham seems to be taking stripped contracts, now per your mentor, will they still be taking stripped contracts come 2021? If they are reading these blogs, you should be prepared to expect a change when the new privileges system rolls out. Good Luck.

 

[raygo123]

You don’t understand what they’re describing.
The 3 years for 14 or 15 months of MFs works like this.
The contract transfers in November-December & you put 2019 points into RCI since it’s a resell account that’s the only option.
Use 2020 points
Then one of two things follow
1.Borrow 2021 points for 2020 reservations. Then start Ovations process in December 2020 by the time your contract is transferred to Wyndham its 2021 & dgalati claims Wyndham doesn’t care if you’ve already used all 2021 points. Start to end in 14 or 15 months getting 3 years worth of points.
2. Start Ovations process December 2020, in January 2021 put your 2021 points into RCI before the contracts transfers to Wyndham. Again dgalati claims Wyndham doesn’t care if you’ve transferred the 2021 points to RCI. Again start to end in 14-15 months getting 3 years worth of points.

Dgalati brags that he doesn’t use Ovations instead he sells the contracts to Wyndham through a third party wholesale buyer.

From what dgalati has posted this loophole may have been closed. Wyndham has told dgalati if he does this next year he’ll have to pay the rental rate of $12 per 1k points. So after this whole thread it may already be a loophole that’s been closed.

So all the bragging & gloating going on is thread is probably not going to work & it shouldn’t work!!!!

I think it was fool me once Shane on you. Fool me twice shame on me. He also has to abide by the point rental terms and conditions. Wyndham could have taken away his privileges.

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[Braindead]

I think it was fool me once Shane on you. Fool me twice shame on me. He also has to abide by the point rental terms and conditions. Wyndham could have taken away his privileges.

You might be right, dgalati says he’s on his way out the door. Maybe Wyndham showed dgalati the door!!

 

[raygo123]

I think it was fool me once Shane on you. Fool me twice shame on me. He also has to abide by the point rental terms and conditions. Wyndham could have taken away his privileges.

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There are so seasoned owners on here. If they ever sold a stripped contract the buyer was well aware. One wonders if there was full disclosure.

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[philemer]

This process is TOO much work, IMHO. I have other hobbies.

 

[Eric B]

On the front end, this sounds like the typical process of buying a TS from someone willing to give you a free use in order to divest it. I have no problem with that and I doubt that Wyndham would either. I'm not sure the points in RCI would do me much good as I've already got plenty of access to RCI resorts without doing this; it might be worth doing for someone without an ability and either RCI points or weeks to already exchange.

On the back end, it sounds like one would be getting an extra value from Wyndham for no outlay along with them agreeing to relieve the continuing obligation to pay MFs. It probably wouldn't take them long to figure out that this isn't a good business model as they already seem to have plenty of inventory to sell as developer points. I would be a bit surprised if they haven't already figured that out and taken action on it as many have now posted.

If Wyndham declines to take back the contracts through Ovation, the $2 or $3/kpts is a short term thing and should really be adjusted to account for the necessary RCI exchange fees. In the longer term, the point cost for the contracts is lower than CWA, so is nothing to sneer at, but bear in mind that when the time comes, the purchaser may have to make the same offers in order to divest them (free year use and transfer payment), so it could wind up being a wash.

Personally, I would never go into a transaction with an expressed intent like the one described here to get something for nothing on the back end because my profession is subject to ethical constraints. Stepping back from the transactions as described, this appears to be more problematic to me than something as simple as accepting a timeshare deed that was signed months prior by the grantor when they contracted with a broker having the intent to divest the property as some have commented on as being too challenging to do when under similar ethical constraints. It's probably not per se prohibited, but has the appearance of impropriety to me.

 

[raygo123]

On the front end, this sounds like the typical process of buying a TS from someone willing to give you a free use in order to divest it. I have no problem with that and I doubt that Wyndham would either. I'm not sure the points in RCI would do me much good as I've already got plenty of access to RCI resorts without doing this; it might be worth doing for someone without an ability and either RCI points or weeks to already exchange.

On the back end, it sounds like one would be getting an extra value from Wyndham for no outlay along with them agreeing to relieve the continuing obligation to pay MFs. It probably wouldn't take them long to figure out that this isn't a good business model as they already seem to have plenty of inventory to sell as developer points. I would be a bit surprised if they haven't already figured that out and taken action on it as many have now posted.

If Wyndham declines to take back the contracts through Ovation, the $2 or $3/kpts is a short term thing and should really be adjusted to account for the necessary RCI exchange fees. In the longer term, the point cost for the contracts is lower than CWA, so is nothing to sneer at, but bear in mind that when the time comes, the purchaser may have to make the same offers in order to divest them (free year use and transfer payment), so it could wind up being a wash.

Personally, I would never go into a transaction with an expressed intent like the one described here to get something for nothing on the back end because my profession is subject to ethical constraints. Stepping back from the transactions as described, this appears to be more problematic to me than something as simple as accepting a timeshare deed that was signed months prior by the grantor when they contracted with a broker having the intent to divest the property as some have commented on as being too challenging to do when under similar ethical constraints. It's probably not per se prohibited, but has the appearance of impropriety to me.

It is prohibited. And if not disclosed to buy the seller probably illegal as this is a real estate transaction. The "club Wyndham" sits on a basis of two real estate trusts. Especially where in the Select trust the ownership is deeded.

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[Eric B]

It is prohibited. And if not disclosed [by] the seller probably illegal as this is a real estate transaction. The "club Wyndham" sits on a basis of two real estate trusts. Especially where in the Select trust the ownership is deeded.

Which aspect is prohibited? The front half, where the seller includes the equivalent of a cash payment inducement or the back half, where the former buyer, now grantor of a deed back to Wyndham, accelerates the next year's usage to the current year, then transfers the ownership back without the first years usage rights? Neither strikes me as being something that would actually be illegal, though the latter one could be skating a bit close to the line. Wyndham could take action to prohibit either because they control the resort transfer aspect of the transaction, but they don't sound like things one couldn't agree to in a contract for the sale of real estate. I'm with you on the need for disclosure at both ends; it's the overall scheme that seems questionable to me, particularly if it becomes a pattern of transactions rather than a single set. It just feels to me like it's a "scheme" in a somewhat shady sense when it's plainly described like this rather than something above board. I wouldn't do it myself because of the appearances is all I'm saying.

 

[Grammarhero]

It is prohibited. And if not disclosed to buy the seller probably illegal as this is a real estate transaction. The "club Wyndham" sits on a basis of two real estate trusts. Especially where in the Select trust the ownership is deeded.

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Show me the laws and authorities that says such is illegal or prohibited. Again, I am talking about deeding back to Ovations not selling to someone. Please cite to Florida Law. I think you’re just talking out of your butt.

 

[Grammarhero]

Just curious.

1. Were you able to use all of those 2019 points at this late stage in the year? Or did you dump them into RCI?
2. In 2021, do you plan on using all of your points before sending the stripped contracts to Ovations? Borrowing them into 2020, I'm guessing? Will you be renting units at 50% discounts or at a 67% discount, passing along your savings?
3. Why not just get the 4th year, also. You could borrow the 2022 points and use them in Jan/Feb 2021.

Quite a plan. Hope you are able to execute. While Wyndham seems to be taking stripped contracts, now per your mentor, will they still be taking stripped contracts come 2021? If they are reading these blogs, you should be prepared to expect a change when the new privileges system rolls out. Good Luck.

Thanks for letting me know. @dgalati FYI. Might be possible to get a fourth year.
1) transferred and use Wyndham pts in Nov/Dec 19 for 2019 use year pts;
2) use 2020 and borrow 2021 use year pts in 2020; and,
3) borrow 2022 use year pts and reserve for Jan 2021.
4) begin Ovations in Jan 2021.

One would really have to have a flexible schedule. That means it’s possible to get four years usage on 15-16 months MF payments.

 

[Grammarhero]

Just curious.

1. Were you able to use all of those 2019 points at this late stage in the year? Or did you dump them into RCI?
2. In 2021, do you plan on using all of your points before sending the stripped contracts to Ovations? Borrowing them into 2020, I'm guessing? Will you be renting units at 50% discounts or at a 67% discount, passing along your savings?
3. Why not just get the 4th year, also. You could borrow the 2022 points and use them in Jan/Feb 2021.

Quite a plan. Hope you are able to execute. While Wyndham seems to be taking stripped contracts, now per your mentor, will they still be taking stripped contracts come 2021? If they are reading these blogs, you should be prepared to expect a change when the new privileges system rolls out. Good Luck.

1. In Nov 2019, I booked a week trip to Hawaii, but my wife’s work torpedoed that. So I eventually deposited into RCI.
2. I plan to use 2020 pts and borrow 2021 pts. If I do rent, I plan to pass some of the discounts to fellow tuggers.
3. Thanks for letting me know about possible fourth year 2022 usage in Jan 2021.

 

[A.Win]

To me, this sounds like a case of buying low and selling high. You are buying a contract with points included and you are quickly selling it (14 months later) with no points.

It is similar to buying a traditional week with a free use year and then quickly selling it without a free week. In this scenario, you could get a free week. Or more likely, 2 weeks for the price of 1.

Of course, it is not easy to find these great deals. I suppose you are telling us that in the complicated Wyndham world, it is easy to buy low and sell high if you know the timing loopholes that others do not know.

 

[Braindead]

1. In Nov 2019, I booked a week trip to Hawaii, but my wife’s work torpedoed that. So I eventually deposited into RCI.
2. I plan to use 2020 pts and borrow 2021 pts. If I do rent, I plan to pass some of the discounts to fellow tuggers.
3. Thanks for letting me know about possible fourth year 2022 usage in Jan 2021.

Even dgalati will tell you that you CANNOT USE FUTURE YEARS POINTS, only current years points can be used & that’s probably changed or going to be changed.

So try again!!! It will not work when using Ovations, selling to Wyndham through a third party wholesale broker & probably even when selling to another individual!!!

 

[Grammarhero]

Even dgalati will tell you that you CANNOT USE FUTURE YEARS POINTS, only current years points can be used & that’s probably changed or going to be changed.

So try again!!!

I am still learning Wyndham. Thanks for info.

 

[Cyrus24]

Even dgalati will tell you that you CANNOT USE FUTURE YEARS POINTS, only current years points can be used & that’s probably changed or going to be changed.

So try again!!! It will not work when using Ovations, selling to Wyndham through a third party wholesale broker & probably even when selling to another individual!!!

He should be able to make Jan, 2021 bookings using 2022 points if the reservation is made inside the express window. Would I do this knowing that my intentions were to return the doubly stripped contracts to Wyndham? No. But, if you really want to maximize the buy/strip/return scheme benefits, you might as well go all the way.

 

[raygo123]

Show me the laws and authorities that says such is illegal or prohibited. Again, I am talking about feeding back to Ovations not selling to someone. Please cite to Florida Law. I think you’re just talking out of your butt.

Fine. I'm talking out of my butt. And you are always right. It is just like removing a light fixture from your house that the new owner expected came with the house. Come back after you succeed so you can tell me I told you so. Wyndham is like any other buyer. Ovations is the program, Wyndham is the buyer. Not everything is in writing with Wyndham. They have already cut some resorts from Qualifying. Also they never accepted every other contracts. What you don't seem to understand is that like any other buyer Wyndham can put any qualifications they want on the sale, and they have. With the added advantage of having the ability to suspend your CLUB privileges. What amazes me is the fact that you think this is a new idea. It is too bad that some of the "previous" owners who stripped a contract and were "audited" are no longer participating in this forum. For months on end Wyndham held their ability to book anything at Bay while still holding them responsible for the maintenance fees. These were seasoned veterans, mega renters.

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[Eric B]

Show me the laws and authorities that says such is illegal or prohibited. Again, I am talking about deeding back to Ovations not selling to someone. Please cite to Florida Law. I think you’re just talking out of your butt.

I don't practice real estate law pertaining to timeshares, so I'm not really sure, but don't understand why Florida Law would be applicable to Wyndham Grand Desert. In any case, I'm not really concerned with the legality of the situation under discussion, so don't really have more than a passing curiousity.

Fine. I'm talking out of my butt. And you are always right. It is just like removing a light fixture from your house that the new owner expected came with the house. Come back after you succeed so you can tell me I told you so. Wyndham is like any other buyer. Ovations is the program, Wyndham is the buyer. Not everything is in writing with Wyndham. They have already cut some resorts from Qualifying. Also they never accepted every other contracts. What you don't seem to understand is that like any other buyer Wyndham can put any qualifications they want on the sale, and they have. With the added advantage of having the ability to suspend your CLUB privileges. What amazes me is the fact that you think this is a new idea. It is too bad that some of the "previous" owners who stripped a contract and were "audited" are no longer participating in this forum. For months on end Wyndham held their ability to book anything at Bay while still holding them responsible for the maintenance fees. These were seasoned veterans, mega renters.

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I've got to agree with your take on the potential IRL implications of contract stripping schemes. The postings a while back by @ronparise regarding his experiences with doing similar things came to mind when I read this thread. Sometimes you can get lucky counting cards, but the house always wins in the end.

 

[Grammarhero]

Fine. I'm talking out of my butt. And you are always right. It is just like removing a light fixture from your house that the new owner expected came with the house. Come back after you succeed so you can tell me I told you so. Wyndham is like any other buyer. Ovations is the program, Wyndham is the buyer. Not everything is in writing with Wyndham. They have already cut some resorts from Qualifying. Also they never accepted every other contracts. What you don't seem to understand is that like any other buyer Wyndham can put any qualifications they want on the sale, and they have. With the added advantage of having the ability to suspend your CLUB privileges. What amazes me is the fact that you think this is a new idea. It is too bad that some of the "previous" owners who stripped a contract and were "audited" are no longer participating in this forum. For months on end Wyndham held their ability to book anything at Bay while still holding them responsible for the maintenance fees. These were seasoned veterans, mega renters.

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I’m not always right. I’ve admitted being wrong to @Braindead above.

I’m okay if Wyndham kicks me out. It’s a quick way to divest four of my Wyndham TS! Two of my Wyndham resorts are in anti-deficiency states, so I wouldn’t pay MF if Wyndham held my ability to book.

I know former Wyndham owners paying retail who feel Wyndham lied to or mislead them. These former owners think @dgalati and I are heroes for using Wyndham this way. I guided these folks through the Wyndham LE program, in which they got three years free usage MF-Free.

@Eric B. I think we are in same profession. I take my ethical responsibilities seriously, enough that I no longer buy from Sumday using allegedly backdated deeds. I actually had to call both VA and NY Bar hotlines.

I’ve also never said this was a new idea. Didn’t I acknowledge that @dgalati, who was using Wyndham years before me, was the king of using Wyndham? That would imply my ideas aren’t new.

 

[Grammarhero]

I don't practice real estate law pertaining to timeshares, so I'm not really sure, but don't understand why Florida Law would be applicable to Wyndham Grand Desert. In any case, I'm not really concerned with the legality of the situation under discussion, so don't really have more than a passing curiousity.



I've got to agree with your take on the potential IRL implications of contract stripping schemes. The postings a while back by @ronparise regarding his experiences with doing similar things came to mind when I read this thread. Sometimes you can get lucky counting cards, but the house always wins in the end.

I actually like my Grand Desert so I may keep. I have a Star Island, transferred in Nov 2019, and Ocean Walk, transferred on December 2019. I got free 2019 usage which I’m happy about. I’m unhappy about high MF.

 

[Grammarhero]

@Eric B I created a table of state TS laws at https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/links-to-official-state-ts-laws-and-guides-manuals.298554/page-2

You should check it out. My next project is looking at TS foreclosure laws across states.

 

[Grammarhero]

Must be a TUG Christmas for me. I’m being compared to @dgalati and @ronparise, two legendary Wyndham users and TUGGERS.

 

[Braindead]

Must be a TUG Christmas for me. I’m being compared to @dgalati and @ronparise, who legendary Wyndham users and TUGGERS.

You & dgalati combined can’t even strike the match to light the candle compared to the real legend Ron P!!!!!!