Holy Smokes. In Nov/Dec 2019, Four Wyndham Transfers w 1/19 use year

[raygo123]

I’m not always right. I’ve admitted being wrong to @Braindead above.

I’m okay if Wyndham kicks me out. It’s a quick way to divest four of my Wyndham TS! Two of my Wyndham resorts are in anti-deficiency states, so I wouldn’t pay MF if Wyndham held my ability to book.

I know former Wyndham owners paying retail who feel Wyndham lied to or mislead them. These former owners think @dgalati and I are heroes for using Wyndham this way. I guided these folks through the Wyndham LE program, in which they got three years free usage MF-Free.

@Eric B. I think we are in same profession. I take my ethical responsibilities seriously, enough that I no longer buy from Sumday using allegedly backdated deeds. I actually had to call both VA and NY Bar hotlines.

Heros? Not paying fees? Have you heard of "collection agencies? You have a bad case of deniability. So far other long term owners have not chimed in. This idea is not new, and you are too new to have history on your side.

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[Grammarhero]

You & dgalati combined can’t even strike the match to light the candle compared to the real legend Ron P!!!!!!

True but a honor to be in the same conversation as @ronparise.

 

[raygo123]

You & dgalati combined can’t even strike the match to light the candle compared to the real legend Ron P!!!!!!

It is most difficult to tell a person they are wrong when they know they are right.

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[Grammarhero]

Heros? Not paying fees? Have you heard of "collection agencies? You have a bad case of deniability. So far other long term owners have not chimed in. This idea is not new, and you are too new to have history on your side.

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My Star Island and Daytona Beach are in anti-deficiency states. That means in a TS foreclosure, the resorts can’t obtain deficiency judgments beyond the TS.

If Wyndham blocks me, I won’t pay any MF. They can have their TS back. If they refer me to collection agencies for GD or CWA, I will deal with it then.

 

[raygo123]

True but a honor to be in the same conversation as @ronparise.

Not in your case. If they were dead they would be rolling over in their graves.

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[Grammarhero]

It is most difficult to tell a person they are wrong when they know they are right.

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I already acknowledged not being in the same class as Ron Parise. So how am I wrong? Please put me on your ignore list. You are going on my ignore list.

 

[Eric B]

Dgalati can’t even strike the match to light the candle compared to Ron P

Agreed. It has always struck me as being useful to be able to learn from the experiences others share on TUG.

@Eric B I created a table of state TS laws at https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/links-to-official-state-ts-laws-and-guides-manuals.298554/page-2

You should check it out. My next project is looking at TS foreclosure laws across states.

I’ve seen it and appreciate the usefulness of the reference source. The prospective one on foreclosure laws will be a great addition, too, I’m sure.

I actually like my Grand Desert so I may keep. I have a Star Island, transferred in Nov 2019, and Ocean Walk, transferred on December 2019. I got free 2019 usage which I’m happy about. I’m unhappy about high MF.

Congratulations! I still don’t understand the connection between Grand Desert and Florida law, though; you did ask @raygo123 to cite to that law regarding a group of Wyndham CWS deeds that include that resort. Is it applicable because of Wyndham’s location? Wouldn’t the law of the state the deed is in control? Guess I have to go back and look at my Wyndham contracts to see if there’s a choice of law clause for the contractual aspects.

Must be a TUG Christmas for me. I’m being compared to @dgalati and @ronparise, two legendary Wyndham users and TUGGERS.

The comparison wasn’t meant that way, but instead as a useful signpost of what Wyndham’s response is likely to be to schemes similar to this. I understand that Ron P made a decent income stripping and renting by learning and exploiting the contractual loopholes. As a result, once Wyndham came to understand what transpired, they took action to prevent recurrence. He’s no longer making that income by renting out Wyndham TS usage. My big take away from Ron’s postings was the importance of reading and learning the rules of usage in the directory. They don’t, unfortunately, cover eligibility for Ovations or audit initiating criteria, which could be problematic.

 

[raygo123]

Law is not your strong suit. I can tell. So stop trying to pretend you know the law, when you don’t.

My Star Island and Daytona Beach are in anti-deficiency states. Do you even know what that means? That means in a TS foreclosure, the resorts can’t obtain deficiency judgments beyond the TS.

If Wyndham blocks me, I won’t pay any MF. They can have their TS back. If they refer me to collection agencies for GD or CWA, I will deal with it then.

And to you,your so imbedded with law, you fail to realize there are rules. Wyndham rules. Rules that can change at Wyndham's whims. Policies like Wyndham does not accept all timeshares under Ovations. There is no rule or law against stripping a contract but there are rules associated as to how you can borrow from next year's use year. To complete the last day of a vacation or a time frame. Stick around you may, may, learn something.

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[Grammarhero]

Agreed. It has always struck me as being useful to be able to learn from the experiences others share on TUG.




I’ve seen it and appreciate the usefulness of the reference source. The prospective one on foreclosure laws will be a great addition, too, I’m sure.




Congratulations! I still don’t understand the connection between Grand Desert and Florida law, though; you did ask @raygo123 to cite to that law regarding a group of Wyndham CWS deeds that include that resort. Is it applicable because of Wyndham’s location? Wouldn’t the law of the state the deed is in control? Guess I have to go back and look at my Wyndham contracts to see if there’s a choice of law clause for the contractual aspects.




The comparison wasn’t meant that way, but instead as a useful signpost of what Wyndham’s response is likely to be to schemes similar to this. I understand that Ron P made a decent income stripping and renting by learning and exploiting the contractual loopholes. As a result, once Wyndham came to understand what transpired, they took action to prevent recurrence. He’s no longer making that income by renting out Wyndham TS usage. My big take away from Ron’s postings was the importance of reading and learning the rules of usage in the directory. They don’t, unfortunately, cover eligibility for Ovations or audit initiating criteria, which could be problematic.

Many recent Wyndham TS deeds are deeded in Nevada as a TS Resort-friendly state. My Star Island and Daytona Beach deeds are in FL, older, and pts-converted.

I actually like my GD and may keep. My CWA, deeded in Delaware, is awful. I did get one year free usage though.

Thanks for your comments and feedback on my allegedly backdated deed from Sumday. Interestingly, VA gives lawyer TS owners one free pass on an allegedly backdated TS deed likely because they’ve dealt with the situation many times. NY is not nearing as forgiving. With my one free pass, I’m not dealing with any more allegedly backdated deeds.

 

[Cyrus24]

Law is not your strong suit. I can tell. So stop trying to pretend you know the law, when you don’t.

My Star Island and Daytona Beach are in anti-deficiency states. Do you even know what that means? That means in a TS foreclosure, the resorts can’t obtain deficiency judgments beyond the TS.

If Wyndham blocks me, I won’t pay any MF. They can have their TS back. If they refer me to collection agencies for GD or CWA, I will deal with it then.

I'm interested in knowing more about the anti-deficiency law in Florida. I have an RCI points resort in Florida, my only RCI points resort. Do you mean to say that if I stop paying MF's, all that will happen is foreclosure? And, maybe a hit to my credit (which I don't care about)? They have no other recourse?

 

[Grammarhero]

I'm interested in knowing more about the anti-deficiency law in Florida. I have an RCI points resort in Florida, my only RCI points resort. Do you mean to say that if I stop paying MF's, all that will happen is foreclosure? And, maybe a hit to my credit (which I don't care about)? They have no other recourse?

Is your resort deeded in FL? Do not object to a trustee foreclosure in FL. If you object, you waive your right to an anti-deficiency judgment.

Of course, stop paying MF should be the last resort. Yes, your credit will get dinged about 75 pts. I uploaded a screenshot the operative statute. Good luck!

Check out my preliminary guide.

 

[capital city]

I don't necessarily see it as wrong but it seems like a lot of work and requires perfect timing to beat Wyndham out of ~$5k? The only problem with it to me is that anytime someone abuses something like this Wyndham takes notice and makes rule changes. That's how we lost credit pool and how we got a crappy website shoved down our throat. They rushed the website hoping they could implement security features that were found and abused in the old system. Which is probably a big reason the functionality is so bad, their main focus was on stopping abuse of the system.

 

[Cyrus24]

Do not object to an estate foreclosure in FL.

Yes to being deeded in Florida. Resale contract, no mortgage. Does 'do not object' mean ignore all attempts by the resort to reach me, just let them do what they do?

My plan is to offer my points week on the marketplace. But, if it is not taken, just walking away seems like a reasonable alternative.

If a person knows what to do under the laws in Florida, would it not just be better for the resort to take the points week back and avoid all the costs associated with a foreclosure? I'm looking for some leverage with the resort.

 

[Iggyearl]

This thread is Sooo... entertaining. There are many previous posts with advice to disappointed retail timeshare owners. People who didn't know about the rescission period. Couldn't reserve at 6 mos. Had maintenance fees rise. A change in health. Lost a spouse. These people just wanted to get out of their timeshare without a hassle.

The advice was to NOT stop paying maintenance fees, but to "morally" dispose of the unused timeshare. Maybe offer it for free. Pay next year's maintenance fees. Pay the transfer fee. Maybe throw in a gift card. Do the "right thing."

Now it appears that doing the "right thing" hurts them and definitely benefits someone else. If I was in the above described position, I think I would just stop paying maintenance fees. No reason to give money to some "shrewd" Tug member.

 

[Cyrus24]

This thread is Sooo... entertaining. There are many previous posts with advice to disappointed retail timeshare owners. People who didn't know about the rescission period. Couldn't reserve at 6 mos. Had maintenance fees rise. A change in health. Lost a spouse. These people just wanted to get out of their timeshare without a hassle.

The advice was to NOT stop paying maintenance fees, but to "morally" dispose of the unused timeshare. Maybe offer it for free. Pay next year's maintenance fees. Pay the transfer fee. Maybe throw in a gift card. Do the "right thing."

Now it appears that doing the "right thing" hurts them and definitely benefits someone else. If I was in the above described position, I think I would just stop paying maintenance fees. No reason to give money to some "shrewd" Tug member.

My first plan was to give away what I have, with a full year of points. But, giving back to the resort might actually be easier. I just want to know my options. You interested in a nice points resort with reasonable MF's, for free? If so, send me a PM.

 

[Braindead]

The advice was to NOT stop paying maintenance fees, but to "morally" dispose of the unused timeshare. Maybe offer it for free. Pay next year's maintenance fees. Pay the transfer fee. Maybe throw in a gift card. Do the "right thing."

Now it appears that doing the "right thing" hurts them and definitely benefits someone else. If I was in the above described position, I think I would just stop paying maintenance fees. No reason to give money to some "shrewd" Tug member.

You make an excellent point.

Does TUG want to be known for advising owners “ TO NOT DO THE RIGHT THING”?? I hope not.
There is always circumstances when owners have no other choice but to stop paying MFs.
But that shouldn’t be the first advice or the standard advice for everyone!!

I think this whole thing with Grammerhero has gone to far!!!
Dgalati says he’s found another way to travel for less, is that to take free contracts with free usage along with receiving gift cards & never pay MFs letting the TS go into foreclosure after using his free usage & gift card??
Is that what TUG is endorsing & stooping to a new low??

Let’s wake up & find some morals here!!!!!!!!

 

[bendadin]

The advice was to NOT stop paying maintenance fees, but to "morally" dispose of the unused timeshare. Maybe offer it for free. Pay next year's maintenance fees. Pay the transfer fee. Maybe throw in a gift card. Do the "right thing."

Now it appears that doing the "right thing" hurts them and definitely benefits someone else. If I was in the above described position, I think I would just stop paying maintenance fees. No reason to give money to some "shrewd" Tug member.

I gave away two Wyndham contracts this year. I have three others (GD, PCB, and Bali Hai) that I would have given away but I got this garbage. "You have to pay closing and transfer on a free timeshare," from said person. And so, even though I was giving away really nice contracts (average $4.36/k MF) now I won't. Now I will keep them. The damage has been done.

So people ARE here on TUG to take advantage of all.

First, why give away when you can scam Wyndham with a little game (if your ethics allow this as mine do not.) And to be clear, there are two different games being played here.
Secondly, it will continue to dry up the market for those who legitimately want to own and use a timeshare without purchasing retail.

So this behavior is hurting TUG.

 

[Fredflintstone]

You make an excellent point.

Does TUG want to be known for advising owners “ TO NOT DO THE RIGHT THING”?? I hope not.
There is always circumstances when owners have no other choice but to stop paying MFs.
But that shouldn’t be the first advice or the standard advice for everyone!!

I think this whole thing with Grammerhero has gone to far!!!
Dgalati says he’s found another way to travel for less, is that to take free contracts with free usage along with receiving gift cards & never pay MFs letting the TS go into foreclosure after using his free usage & gift card??
Is that what TUG is endorsing & stooping to a new low??

Let’s wake up & find some morals here!!!!!!!!

Not knowing all the ins and outs of Wyndham, I can’t comment on their points systems. However, I know based on past posts from @Grammarhero, he demonstrates the highest of Ethical standards. He looks before he leaps. He checks his legal rights with impeccable approaches. He simply is best utilizing the points systems developed by Wyndham themselves. In my mind, it’s no different than having a coupon where you get maximum points if you spend 100 at a time so you do 3 100 dollar transactions instead of one to get the maximum benefit allowed. That is not illegal or immoral, just simply being clever.



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[Fredflintstone]

As for Wyndham, here is a link where you can see the current list of filed complaints:


https://dockets.justia.com/search?query=WYNDHAM+VACATION+RESORTS+INC&state=florida


https://www.classaction.org/news/wy...tive-and-misleading-timeshare-sales-practices

It looks like the dockets are filled with allegations of misrepresentation, fraud and abuse of the elderly.


https://dolanlawfirm.com/2016/11/wyndham-vacation-whistleblower-verdict/

I just find it humorous that one attacks an upstanding person like @Grammarhero who has chosen to help vulnerable persons in his practice over the large corporations. I can tell you, this is one fellow who has proven through his chosen practice specialty that he is of the highest caliber or ethics.

If there is a way to maximize your benefit, I say use it. If Wyndham believes they are being abused, I can promise you they will adjust the rules. Don’t worry, Wyndham will protect their interests, both legally and morally. Since they haven’t yet, what @Grammarhero is doing is perfectly fine. Once or if the adjustment from Wyndham happens, I am sure Grammarhero will follow their changed rules whatever they be because that’s the kind of person he is. So, please do not attack a person who demonstrates the highest of integrity.


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[Grammarhero]

I don't necessarily see it as wrong but it seems like a lot of work and requires perfect timing to beat Wyndham out of ~$5k? The only problem with it to me is that anytime someone abuses something like this Wyndham takes notice and makes rule changes. That's how we lost credit pool and how we got a crappy website shoved down our throat. They rushed the website hoping they could implement security features that were found and abused in the old system. Which is probably a big reason the functionality is so bad, their main focus was on stopping abuse of the system.

It takes great timing, but not a lot of work. I just have to look for the Wyndham TS I want with free usage. Given I use TUG 1.5 hrs daily, the work time is minimal.

 

[Grammarhero]

My first plan was to give away what I have, with a full year of points. But, giving back to the resort might actually be easier. I just want to know my options. You interested in a nice points resort with reasonable MF's, for free? If so, send me a PM.

Do try to deed back. Maybe you can call the resort. Tell them that you know FL is an anti-deficiency State.

 

[Grammarhero]

Yes to being deeded in Florida. Resale contract, no mortgage. Does 'do not object' mean ignore all attempts by the resort to reach me, just let them do what they do?

My plan is to offer my points week on the marketplace. But, if it is not taken, just walking away seems like a reasonable alternative.

If a person knows what to do under the laws in Florida, would it not just be better for the resort to take the points week back and avoid all the costs associated with a foreclosure? I'm looking for some leverage with the resort.

The “do not object” usually means do not fill out and return the objection form. I wouldn’t put it pass the resort to present nasty phone call mistakenly as an objection though.

 

[Fredflintstone]

The “do not object” usually means do not fill out and return the objection form. I wouldn’t put it pass the resort to present nasty phone call mistakenly as an objection though.

That’s right...In my case, the trustee sent an objection form. All I did was ignore it thus not objecting and 4 months later the non judicial foreclosure happened. From my experience, it appears the resort tries to encourage an objection based on the letters I received.


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[Braindead]

Deleted

 

[Fredflintstone]

Deleted

That’s good. Let me reframe. I believe ALL developers and resorts will protect their interests both legally and morally. If they see a flaw in their systems, they have the right to adjust. Every contract I have read has a clause that they reserve the right to change any term at anytime.

So, if you find a benefit of any kind that enhances your usage; use it until or if they decide to change the terms. That is simply maximizing your experience and that’s both legal and morally correct.


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