Holy Smokes. In Nov/Dec 2019, Four Wyndham Transfers w 1/19 use year

[Grammarhero]

Part of my statement you seem to ignore.

“ If you can’t pay it doesn’t matter what state you’re in or what it does to your credit score.”
True or False?
If credit score is the deciding factor, they have the financial means to pay their financial responsibilities.

Flip Flop @Braindead I finally un-ignored to see what you would post. For the last time, a credit score decrease is not the only concern, but a straw man argument you are latched onto. Folks are also worried about potential deficiency lawsuits. Hopefully, the legal information I’m sharing helps them make decisions once they get clarity on potential deficiency lawsuits.

 

[Braindead]

Flip Flop @Braindead I finally un-ignored to see what you would post. For the last time, a credit score decrease is not the only concern, but a straw man argument you are latched onto. Folks are also worried about potential deficiency lawsuits. Hopefully, the legal information I’m sharing helps them make decisions once they get clarity on potential deficiency lawsuits.

For clarity in one state you should pay & in another state you shouldn’t pay??
Even though you’re in the same situation financially??

 

[Braindead]

State Laws determine morals??

 

[dgalati]

What the trader of deeds maybe guilty of is using their ownership to maximize the $/1000. No different the a VIP using millions of resale points as a VIP benefit and booking them with the VIP 50% discount. The resale points for VIP owners is what I would compare to the free use of points that @Grammarhero has made work for his ownership. It is every owners right to not have the burden of maintenance fees and decide if they want to give back to Ovations.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Just from my experiences, when I was very poor, I was vulnerable, weak and frankly beaten down. I was always afraid that corporations, governments and well off folks would take what little I had.

When I was poor, I wasn’t concerned about my credit score. I was afraid of having the little I had taken away.

So, from my experiences, I appreciated someone giving my some knowledge so I wouldn’t be so frightened.

In my volunteer work, I see the same real fears with folks who are very poor.


Now, As for credit score, I really don’t care because I don’t need credit in the first place. Everything I want and need I can pay for or is paid for. Funny, now that I have resources, banks are crawling all over me to offer me credit. Also, because I look before I leap and frankly can defend myself, I am not worried about those with resources.

Sometimes vulnerable folks just need information to make a good decision like affidavit of Indigency and know that the food will not be taken from the table.









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[Grammarhero]

For clarity in one state you should pay & in another state you shouldn’t pay??
Even though you’re in the same situation financially??

State Laws determine morals??

Flip Flop @Braindead can we just agree to disagree, and both let this go? You are coming across as a creepy, obsessive, pathological person. Your crusade of condemning and discrediting me is nearly a week long. Do you have anything better to do than criticizing tuggers you disagree with all week? I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a defendant in a lawsuit.

 

[Jan M.]

Grammarhero I have to support what Braindead said about about schemes starting small and ballooning into a big mess that eventually leads to owners losing benefits and having more restrictions to deal with. We who are long time owners have seen this happen repeatedly,

Fredflintstone is talking about people who have fallen on hard times or are in situations beyond their control and we have sympathy for those people. However that is not what is the crux of this discussion and you are very conveniently using it to hide behind his skirts on this. Unless you are such an incompetent lawyer that you can't get anyone to hire you or would someday do something that would get you disbarred there is a minuscule chance of you ever being in that situation.

You once told about a client of your MIL's who you made an offer to buy their timeshare that offended them. You saw yourself as being realistic because resale timeshares have very little value compared to the purchase price if people bought from the developer. While that is often true there are a lot of people who do own something that is worth a lot more than $1, $100 or even $1000. So ask yourself did that person and many other people here on TUG see you as your saw yourself? As the helpful individual offering to take it off their hands? Or did they see someone attempting to take advantage of an owner who wants to get out and knows nothing. Like many things it is about perceptions.

You didn't start this thread to help people who found themselves in situations they hadn't planned on or couldn't have forseen. You started this thread to brag how you got what you have so cheaply, can use it for a couple of years to get vacations at a low cost to you then dump what you have before you have to pay the all maintenance fees on the points you used in that final year. You were touting it as a plan everyone should be as smart as you to emulate but it still falls under the category of a SCHEME. Based on what many of us here on TUG have seen and experienced it has the potential to walk down that road of being just one more scam with fallout that we will all pay the penalty for when you are long gone.

The timeshare wisdom long promoted on TUG has never been to buy a timeshare to get in and out. It is that you buy timeshares with the plan of being able to use them for a number of years to come. Many of us found that the longer we owned and the more we learned that we saw the need to readjust our portfolios. That what we started out with wasn't that great or no longer worked for us. Many owners over time have gone on to build portfolios that got them a lot lower maintenance fees or sometimes paying higher maintenance fees to be able to secure stays where they loved going at specific times of the year. However that is not what you are suggesting nor promoting in your posts.

There are a lot of long time TUG members who are saddened to see what the Wyndham threads are turning into. Reread schoolmarm's post. Set your hubris aside, accept that you have chosen to follow or be swayed by some very poor mentors and moving forward learn from the people who actually have something of value to teach. Hopefully some of those people who rarely post or stopped altogether because of certain individuals who have turned the Wyndham forum into a chat room for their own entertainment and a joke will start posting again. You may have learned some things that can be helpful to others but you are stepping way over the line in attempting to seemingly promote yourself as reliable source on all things Wyndham/timeshares. Please don't insult people's intelligence by playing games with denying it, making excuses or hiding behind others.

You may have an issue with accepting being corrected or maybe it's just the way some people go about correcting you sets your back up. Everyone has those moments. We may not like the person saying something or how they say it but that doesn't make them wrong. Nor should it be accepted as justification that we are right. Your experience with owning is limited at this point nor are you even using what you own so people are going to take exception to what you are doing and saying. I believe your intent is to be an asset to TUG. and given time I believe you have the potential to become what you see yourself as now being.

I've been given my share of free passes, especially in my early years on TUG. I was, as I should be, corrected when I got things wrong. I can accept that because life is too short to be offended or threatened when or how you get corrected. I kid about telling Ron P. that I could be a hater because he knew the directory so well. Even now I frequently look things up on the Wyndham website to make sure what I'm posting is correct. Nor were all my opinions always correct or well received even when they were correct. The point of sharing opinions is not just to convince other people you are correct but to give others the opportunity to either add their endorsement or demonstrate how you aren't correct. Maybe you got part of it correct and with what that other person adds now everybody has more correct information to have a better grasp on something. Getting things wrong and making mistakes, learning by trial and error, is undoubtedly a valuable learning tool. There is no shame in being wrong, the shame comes when you refuse to learn from it.

With the coming of a new year and a new decade maybe you could ask for and be given a pass to start over on a new foot if that's what you want. If that is what you choose you will find support from the people who truly have the best interests of the other owners and TUG at heart.

 

[Grammarhero]

Grammarhero I have to support what Braindead said about about schemes starting small and ballooning into a big mess that eventually leads to owners losing benefits and having more restrictions to deal with. We who are long time owners have seen this happen repeatedly,

Fredflintstone is talking about people who have fallen on hard times or are in situations beyond their control and we have sympathy for those people. However that is not what is the crux of this discussion and you are very conveniently using it to hide behind his skirts on this. Unless you are such an incompetent lawyer that you can't get anyone to hire you or would someday do something that would get you disbarred there is a minuscule chance of you ever being in that situation.

You once told about a client of your MIL's who you made an offer to buy their timeshare that offended them. You saw yourself as being realistic because resale timeshares have very little value compared to the purchase price if people bought from the developer. While that is often true there are a lot of people who do own something that is worth a lot more than $1, $100 or even $1000. So ask yourself did that person and many other people here on TUG see you as your saw yourself? As the helpful individual offering to take it off their hands? Or did they see someone attempting to take advantage of an owner who wants to get out and knows nothing. Like many things it is about perceptions.

You didn't start this thread to help people who found themselves in situations they hadn't planned on or couldn't have forseen. You started this thread to brag how you got what you have so cheaply, can use it for a couple of years to get vacations at a low cost to you then dump what you have before you have to pay the all maintenance fees on the points you used in that final year. You were touting it as a plan everyone should be as smart as you to emulate but it still falls under the category of a SCHEME. Based on what many of us here on TUG have seen and experienced it has the potential to walk down that road of being just one more scam with fallout that we will all pay the penalty for when you a long gone.

The timeshare wisdom long promoted on TUG has never been to buy a timeshare to get in and out. It is that you buy timeshares with the plan of being able to use them for a number of years to come. Many of us found that the longer we owned and the more we learned that we saw the need to readjust our portfolios. That what we started out with wasn't that great or no longer worked for us. Many owners over time have gone on to build portfolios that got them a lot lower maintenance fees or sometimes paying higher maintenance fees to be able to secure stays where they loved going at specific times of the year. However that is not what you are suggesting nor promoting in your posts.

There are a lot of long time TUG members who are saddened to see what the Wyndham threads are turning into. Reread schoolmarm's post. Set your hubris aside, accept that you have chosen to follow or be swayed by some very poor mentors and moving forward learn from the people who actually have something of value to teach. Hopefully some of those people who rarely post or stopped altogether because of certain individuals who have turned the Wyndham forum into a chat room for their own entertainment and a joke will start posting again. You may have learned some things that can be helpful to others but you are stepping way over the line in attempting to seemingly promote yourself as reliable source on all things Wyndham/timeshares. Please don't insult people's intelligence by playing games with denying it, making excuses or hiding behind others.

You may have an issue with accepting being corrected or maybe it's just the way some people go about correcting you sets your back up. Everyone has those moments. We may not like the person saying something or how they say it but that doesn't make them wrong. Nor should it be accepted as justification that we are right. Your experience with owning is limited at this point nor are you even using what you own so people are going to take exception to what you are doing and saying. I believe your intent is to be an asset to TUG. and given time I believe you have the potential to become what you see yourself as now being.

I've been given my share of free passes, especially in my early years on TUG. I was, as I should be, corrected when I got things wrong. I can accept that because life is too short to be offended or threatened when or how you get corrected. I kid about telling Ron P. that I could be a hater because he knew the directory so well. Even now I frequently have to look things up on the Wyndham website to make sure what I'm posting is correct. Nor were all my opinions always correct or well received even when they were correct. The point of sharing opinions is not just to convince other people you are correct but to give others the opportunity to either add their endorsement or demonstrate how you aren't correct. Maybe you got part of it correct and with what that other person adds now everybody has more correct information to have a better grasp on something. Getting things wrong and making mistakes, learning by trial and error, is undoubtedly a valuable learning tool. There is no shame in being wrong, the shame comes when you refuse to learn from it.

With the coming of a new year and a new decade maybe you could ask for and be given a pass to start over on a new foot if that's what you want. If that is what you choose you will find support from the people who truly have the best interests of the other owners and TUG at heart.

1) I don’t mean to promote myself as knowledgeable about Wyndham. I didn’t even mean to have people emulate me, nor did I want people to. I don’t know where people got that. I was just happy that I think I got a good deal, wanted to share that, and apparently got condemned for it.
2) The talk about financial hardship is not my own, but other people’s WRT TS state foreclosure laws. I was preparing a table on TS state foreclosure laws, and @Braindead questioned its usefulness. Braindead said only well-off people would benefit from such a table, which is incorrect. This was the preliminary table, which I have more to add. https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/s...s-laws-and-guides-manuals.298554/post-2370752

 

[Jan M.]

1) I don’t mean to promote myself as knowledgeable about Wyndham. I didn’t even mean to have people emulate me, nor did I want people to. I don’t know where people got that.

Your 1,654 posts in just six months of belonging to TUG and buying your timeshares paint a very different picture.

 

[Fredflintstone]

@Jan M. Thank you for your well thought out comments. On @Grammarhero ‘s side, he has wanted to move on a few times. Earlier in this thread, he commented on “everyone getting along”. I think it is healthy to agree to disagree.

I don’t see @Grammarhero skirting the issue. I see him as feeling attacked whether we agree with that or not. The fact remains is he feels that way. I know this sounds like a broken record but Wyndham has the power and the right to change any term, system , benefit or program at anytime. If they wish to change benefits, they will regardless of what comments are made.

I am saddened that some timeshare owners are fearful of losing benefits. The fact is Wyndham can change any terms at any time at their sole discretion. Frankly, that is another reason I rent.

@Grammarhero buying a timeshare interval cheap is part of the course of resales. I don’t see him as bragging. I see him as buying a timeshare interval at market value. In my mind, buying resale is smart. I saw no gloating on his part whatsoever.

As for @Braindead, I respect his thinking on fearing changes due to people finding ways to further maximize benefits. I just take exception when he labels folks as scammers. His points do have some value as long as labelling doesn’t occur. Some points I do disagree with BUT that’s ok, he is entitled to his opinions.

I must say I have read many of your posts and always find them enlightening, intellectual and helpful. Thank you for that!




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[Grammarhero]

Your 1,654 posts paint a very different picture.

A great percentage of my posts are helping other recent TS owners rescind. If I have incorrect information, I readily correct it. I’m not a Wyndham expert, nor do I purport to be. Even in this thread, I mistakenly thought that my CWA was deeded in Delaware, which Braindead corrected me. I went back to read my contract. Turns out the the HOA is in Delaware, and the choice of law is Delaware of anywhere or the HOA’s choosing.

though @Braindead has more Wyndham knowledge than I do, I disagree with his assessment that only the well-off can benefit from TS state foreclosure laws information.

 

[Grammarhero]

Your 1,654 posts in just six months of belonging to TUG and buying your timeshares paint a very different picture.

If it makes everyone feel better, I will stop posting on the Wyndham forums, unless it’s related to an owner seeking information on rescission. All that I ask is that other owners stop attacking me.

I’m also a millennial. Heck, I have friends who make 10 Facebook posts a day. I actually checked my stats. Only 394 of my posts have been on the Wyndham forum.

 

[Fredflintstone]

A great percentage of my posts are helping other recent TS owners rescind. If I have incorrect information, I readily correct it. I’m not a Wyndham expert, nor do I purport to be. Even in this thread, I mistakenly thought that my CWA was deeded in Delaware, which Braindead corrected me. I went back to read my contract. Turns out the the HOA is in Delaware, and the choice of law is Delaware of anywhere or the HOA’s choosing.

though @Braindead has more Wyndham knowledge than I do, I disagree with his assessment that only the well-off can benefit from TS state foreclosure laws information.

I agree. Having legal information is a benefit to all regardless of income.

It’s one way to know your rights and responsibilities. Thank you @Grammarhero for sharing legal information on your free time.

A friend of mine once said, “the legally ignorant is precisely why others take advantage because they only stress their rights. Being ignorant leads to vulnerability.”


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[raygo123]

I agree. Having legal information is a benefit to all regardless of income.

It’s one way to know your rights and responsibilities. Thank you @Grammarhero for sharing legal information on your free time.

A friend of mine once said, “the legally ignorant is precisely why others take advantage because they only stress their rights. Being ignorant leads to vulnerability.”


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And after 238 posts what would that be?

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[Fredflintstone]

And after 238 posts what would that be?

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Sorry, you lost me.


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[Grammarhero]

And after 238 posts what would that be?

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it’s in another thread

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

What I'm providing in this post is not legal advice, but legal commentary or observations similar from law review or journal articles. I will try to prepare a spreadsheet this coming Sunday night. This spreadsheet will be the accumulation of TUG TS knowledge. I wish to thank: 1) @TUGBrian...

tugbbs.com

 

[Fredflintstone]

it’s in another thread

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

What I'm providing in this post is not legal advice, but legal commentary or observations similar from law review or journal articles. I will try to prepare a spreadsheet this coming Sunday night. This spreadsheet will be the accumulation of TUG TS knowledge. I wish to thank: 1) @TUGBrian...

tugbbs.com

Thank you. I ate too much leftover turkey today.


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[Braindead]

Now, As for credit score, I really don’t care because I don’t need credit in the first place. Everything I want and need I can pay for or is paid for. Funny, now that I have resources, banks are crawling all over me to offer me credit. Also, because I look before I leap and frankly can defend myself, I am not worried about those with resources.

Do I understand that you stop paying MFs in a state that Grammerhero identified??
Sounds like you could easily afford to keep paying Instead of walking away

 

[Fredflintstone]

Do I understand that you stop paying MFs in a state that Grammerhero identified??
Sounds like you could easily afford to keep paying Instead of walking away

I’m sorry @Braindead, I’m moving on. I hope you do too.


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[Makai Guy]

This thread has been circling the mulberry bush for a long time with the same opinions stated over and over, a number of personal lectures pointed at one another, and everyone wanting to have the last word.

Time to shut this down.