Holy Smokes. In Nov/Dec 2019, Four Wyndham Transfers w 1/19 use year

[Cyrus24]

I think we'd all be better served if we used the term scheme versus scam. There may be a lot of scheming going on, but I don't believe any Tuggers to be scammers.

scheme
/skēm/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. 1.​
   a large-scale systematic plan or arrangement for attaining some particular object or putting a particular idea into effect.
   "a clever marketing scheme"​

scam
/skam/
Learn to pronounce
noun
INFORMAL

1. a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
   "an insurance scam"​

 

[Braindead]

I've never been screwed from realigned use years. I'm sure others have. But I was very careful about accepting Jan. 1 free use years or calling in to make sure there realignment only to Jan 1st use year. I actually like Wyndham for doing this.

According to dgalati wanting a January 1 start to your use year should’ve been the worst thing you could’ve done.
All current use year points on the realigned contracts would be 2020 points so you should’ve received 0 2019 points expiring on December 31, 2019 on the realigned contracts to use or put in RCI.
I think Wyndham did you a favor & it’s nice to see you acknowledge that. Prorating would’ve hurt you !!!!!!!

 

[Grammarhero]

I have no idea why TUG is allowing this, though then again, Ron P was very vocal about what he was doing after the fact. I called Jan yesterday and told her to have Jim take her temperature because she was being much to nice to Grammarhero (a first name would be great lol) and Galati. I get the feeling that GH has volunteered as an attorney to champion TUG. I can't figure it out. I just hope that my son doesn't end up working with him in New York.

I have galati on ignore (which is really quite lovely.)

I heard back from the Clearwater guy with 1.8m. He shook the exit guy free and Wyndham put a block in title services just in case someone tries something funny. He is very happy that I saved his $300k investment.

Just when I thought you were fair to me in your criticisms, you are unfair and judgmental. I might not strip via Ovations. You know why? Because @Jan M. @Eric B @Cyrus24 @COSkier1 were fair to me and pointed out I might hurt other owners, which I didn't realize.

I thought TUG was here to support other timeshare users, not condemn them. A certain politician said, "I get a sense among certain young people on social media that the way of making change is to be as judgemental as possible about other people. "If I tweet or hashtag about how you didn't do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself because 'Man did you see how woke I was? I called you out!'" "That's enough," he said. "If all you're doing is casting stones, you are probably not going to get that far." "people who do really good stuff have flaws".

People have different moral and ethical systems, which I accept. I have not always agreed with my clients on their moral/ethical stances, but I defended them to the best of my abilities. For example, I represented a bankrupt disabled person who loved but spoiled her children to overcompensate for her disability, at the expense of her financial stability and creditors. She should have lived as frugally as I do. I tried to understand and not judge her, so that I can defend her well. I draw a line that I never accepted a violence case (i.e. domestic violence, rape, homicide, sexual abuse, bank robbery, etc.) Hopefully, everyone has their own moral and ethical lines and abide by them. Things are not so black and white. You deal with moral complexities, especially as an attorney. Your son will legally defend many clients that he does not agree with ethical or morally. If your son is judgmental, your son will not make a good attorney.

I have NOT volunteered as an attorney to champion TUG. I don't know even know where you get that impression.

Since you brought it in, you are inconsistent in selling a stripped Grand Desert contract. You were expecting someone not only to pay closing costs, but to pay MF for one year before getting to use that TS. If you want to condemn someone, condemn yourself for selling a stripped GD contract.

Wyndham Grand Desert 126k odd

126k odd year Buyer to pay $299 transfer fee plus $215 deed prep and recording fees

tugbbs.com

 

[Grammarhero]

I have no idea why TUG is allowing this.

Wyndham Grand Desert 126k odd

126k odd year Buyer to pay $299 transfer fee plus $215 deed prep and recording fees

tugbbs.com

Nice. Selling a stripped GD contract and expecting the seller to cover closing costs and MFs for one year before usage.

 

[Fredflintstone]

In my mind, it doesn’t matter whether Grammarhero is an attorney. In my mind, he is simply a tugger who enjoys timesharing, wants to help others sometimes with legal information (not legal advice whatsoever) and share his timesharing experiences. I think he also enjoys learning new ways to use his timeshares.

That’s why some attorneys I know on TUG guard their profession. That’s sad but sometimes I find people think you are an attorney so you are there to give freebies. Well, I have news for you, attorneys are people too and have a life beyond law.

@Grammarhero, you are an asset as a tugger. Your experiences and insights on timesharing is appreciated just like other tuggers here. I continue to learn from you and I thank you for that.


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[Jan M.]

An open mind can have a change of mind!! As facts came out on what a few were doing a lot of our minds were changed including mine!! Is that a crime??
I assure you that a few were doing things that we still don’t know about today

That is so true. And sometimes we can be of two minds about something.

I found out more about what was going on than most people know because someone I know knew a lot of the players in the game and this person also has contacts in Wyndham management. I was well aware that my person knew more than they were telling me and it's very safe to say there was likely even more going on than my person knew.

Braindead was around at the time so knows most of the rest of this but many of you likely don't.

When Ron P. sold stripped deeds and contracts to other people he made it very clear in his listings when the first points would be available. He never screwed over any of the people that bought from him. But those sales comprised only a part of what he sold.

What most of us found shocking was that Wyndham was on a massive scale buying back deeds and contacts that had been stripped. This was through the person Ron P. and the others had on the inside and/or a third party. It seems pretty inconceivable that Wyndham didn't know they were buying stripped deeds and contracts totaling I'd guess easily several hundred million points. This was when CWA was being heavily promoted and sold so we speculated that it was likely that Wyndham was hungry for cheap inventory to feed into CWA. However this was when we learning about silos in Wyndham and how often one department had no idea what other departments were doing. So it's entirely possible that some people in Wyndham knew what they were buying but other departments like the accounting department didn't. When Ron said he knew it couldn't last it I thought it was likely because he knew eventually someone in Wyndham would notice that the numbers were way off balance in the number of points available and the number of points Wyndham was paying maintenance fees on and start looking into why. As long as the numbers stayed within certain parameters that wouldn't have happened but too many people got in on the action and they got greedy so it was eventually going to end. If it wasn't for the glitch in the credit pool creating points and owners reporting it repeatedly which made Wyndham look into it, Ron P. and the others probably could have gone a few more years doing what they did. The credit pool glitch issue led to Wyndham looking at Ron P. He laid it all out for Wyndham's legal team what he and the others were actually doing and that ended things sooner for them. It would have ended eventually anyways when Wyndham stopped buying their stripped deeds and contracts and at that time they would have just quit doing what they were doing. But they wouldn't have lost the very lucrative businesses they built in the purge that ensued with the investigations. Not everyone who ended up "no longer and owner" was involved in what Ron P. and the others were doing.

When I say they lost lucrative businesses many of you have no idea. Not a clue! There were more people who were making a very nice living doing rentals. Ron. P had a nice website for his New Orleans rentals and did a good business with those rentals. Ron never claimed to have that kind of computer skills so likely he had or paid someone to create his website for him. The Boehms had websites for each of the resorts they specialized in. And the list of resorts they specialized in grew from when I first learned about them and started watching. Their website for Glacier Canyon was glaciercanyon.net. Many people thought they owned Glacier Canyon and when you looked at their website it was easy to see why! Whoever did their websites had excellent computer website design skills. They had a huge number of listings available at the various resorts they specialized in and if you were looking at one resort and were curious about where else they offered stays, a click would take you to their page for another resort. The Boehms from what I know were where the term "megarenter" started. They easily had a six figure income from their rentals. Another owner who is no longer and lost a business that supported his family very nicely was am1. And this is only three people; there were more.

I'm not so heartless that I can't feel sympathy for those people. On the other hand I was, like many other people, very unhappy that the system was set up in a way that allowed a number of those things to happen. I also wasn't blind to the fact that people taking advantage of the credit pool glitch and the points stripping weren't things to celebrate someone getting one over on "the man" because we the owners are ultimately paying the price for what they did. Companies don't normally just absorb losses as the cost of doing business and not find ways to pass those costs on to the consumer or in our case other owners

I, like many other owners, benefited by being able to get more reservations for my own personal use when those people were no longer owners. Now I'm going to repeat something I said when this was all going down. A good part of the benefit many owners saw wouldn't last because other owners would step up to fill the void those megarenters left. Also that there would be a learning curve and there would be way too much cheap renting happening with the inexperienced owners. What I see on the Facebook Group Wyndham Owners Helping Owners, Rental Welcome is concrete proof of exactly what I predicted. And what will the fallout of that be on the rest of us?

 

[schoolmarm]

Thank you, Jan, for your wise posts.

Part of the fallout is that inexperienced "newer" owners are giving inaccurate information on this site and the Facebook webpages. I don't post too much right now (extremely busy with work--organist at Christmas and just finished two recitals at our big Art Museum yesterday) but I used to help the newbies more than I do now. I know that a few of use get a little tired of posting the same things over and over. And it is distressing to see so much misinformation out there. It is worse on the Facebook pages because the posts aren't archived in a sorted manner and it is hard to search on Facebook.

All this bickering here and over there is not helpful. And this is where I really miss Ron! Like someone said a few pages ago--whether or not you liked or disliked Ron or whether you typically agreed with him or not, he WAS 99.9% accurate and you could rely on his posts and count on his advice. He would have put the kibosh on this thread several pages ago.

And yes, *I* bought a stripped contract from Ron, during a short time when Wyndham wasn't buying his contracts back. I was VERY HAPPY to make this purchase and Ron disclosed everything upfront. I paid $1 plus the $299 transfer fee and got 308K every other year at Bali Hai. Giving up the couple of use years was worth it as Bali Hai is such a low maintenance fee resort, and you could never have gotten it for $300 all-in back then.

Personally I think that banking on Ovations in the future is risky. I also think that the VIP program will probably not settle in as it is proposed now. And I really hate the sales tactics about the new VIP program--buy more points to LOCK IN your Privaleges. (Lock in WHAT? It isn't finalized yet).

LOVE the resorts! Hate the sales tactics. And yes, the sales force used to show everyone, VIP or not, how to cancel and rebook. But that was before Wyndham told them not to.

 

[Grammarhero]

Can't we all just get along? Can't we just accept we have different moral or ethical systems? For example, @SNA27 and I got off on the wrong foot. He called me a greedy parasite and system-gamer, and I called him a Wyndham shill and tool. Eventually, despite our differences, we grew to like and respect each other. He gives really good Wyndham usage information and tips. He also has Wyndham contacts and has a handle on what the Wyndham corporate folks and sales people are thinking.

 

[Braindead]

@Braindead @bendadin @raygo123 you all seem inconsistent in excusing @ronparise for his large-scale “strip scheme,” but criticizing @dgalati for his small-scale “strip scheme” and me for my not yet executed “strip scheme.” I haven’t even used my 2020 points yet. I might even keep my GD.

It just seems inconsistent and unfair.

I shouldn’t have to tell you this with you being a lawyer but I will.
Almost all schemes start on a small scale, then balloon into a big mess.
Ounce it’s a mess of what a few did the remaining masses[us owners] take the hit with new rules.
So yes I’d prefer to stop these schemes when they’re small before the rest of us have more benefits taken away.

A little history on what we’ve learned in hindsight:
1. At some point the old system started crediting back full points on discounted-upgraded cancelled reservations. Example: A studio with a 50% discount upgraded to a 4 bdr Presidential unit when cancelled would credit back the full points of a 4 bdr Presidential unit.
Atleast 2 Tuggers reported they informed Wyndham of the system error. Wyndham reaction, they ignored it until the system had created hundreds of millions of extra points. Yes I said shame on Wyndham.

2. Credit Pool. One of dgalati quotes of mine included imploding on itself. We found out later that one of Ron P schemes when buying contracts was to credit pool the first 3 years of points. Then renting the 3 years of points with discounts & upgrades the first year, that’s where the big profits came from. After the first year he would use point managers hoping to break even or a small profit with credit pooling the points 2 years out.
So now how does one make big profits? Turn around & repeat the year before. Ron P was buying maybe 10mil resell points every year. Every year he would add 10mil points worth of contracts to make big profits. The problem was every year he also added 10mil points of more contracts breaking even with 2 years of MFs yet to be paid.
That would’ve imploded on itself sooner or later. But no Wyndham needs maybe 100mil points of inventory to sell. So where does the buyer for Wyndham find 100mil of points to buy. Call Ron P & other mega renters, the buyer & Wyndham didn’t care if the contracts were stripped or had 2 years of unpaid MFs cost for the points used. Again shame on Wyndam as they bailed out what would’ve imploded on itself or shut it down. This went on for a few years before the mess
End result we all lost the credit pool.

Now I’ll stop every little scheme I can before it’s a problem!!!
The LITTLE scheme you & dgalati have laid out gets out of hand what could possibly happen ?
We all LOSE the benefit of borrowing points. Ovations start getting 75% of applications in December-January so they’ll require all points to be available, that could cause a hardship on an owner.

Greed & easy $$$ takes everything down!!! You start with a 200k points & the plan works, next time it might be 400k points then 1mil, then all of sudden more do it!!

Eventually it will be stopped & all of us owners will LOSE yet another benefit !!!!!!!!

 

[Grammarhero]

I shouldn’t have to tell you this with you being a lawyer but I will.
Almost all schemes start on a small scale, then balloon into a big mess.
Ounce it’s a mess of what a few did the remaining masses[us owners] take the hit with new rules.
So yes I’d prefer to stop these schemes when they’re small before the rest of us have more benefits taken away.

A little history on what we’ve learned in hindsight:
1. At some point the old system started crediting back full points on discounted-upgraded cancelled reservations. Example: A studio with a 50% discount upgraded to a 4 bdr Presidential unit when cancelled would credit back the full points of a 4 bdr Presidential unit.
Atleast 2 Tuggers reported they informed Wyndham of the system error. Wyndham reaction, they ignored it until the system had created hundreds of millions of extra points. Yes I said shame on Wyndham.

2. Credit Pool. One of dgalati quotes of mine included imploding on itself. We found out later that one of Ron P schemes when buying contracts was to credit pool the first 3 years of points. Then renting the 3 years of points with discounts & upgrades the first year, that’s where the big profits came from. After the first year he would use point managers hoping to break even or a small profit with credit pooling the points 2 years out.
So now how does one make big profits? Turn around & repeat the year before. Ron P was buying maybe 10mil resell points every year. Every year he would add 10mil points worth of contracts to make big profits. The problem was every year he also added 10mil points of more contracts breaking even with 2 years of MFs yet to be paid.
That would’ve imploded on itself sooner or later. But no Wyndham needs maybe 100mil points of inventory to sell. So where does the buyer for Wyndham find 100mil of points to buy. Call Ron P & other mega renters, the buyer & Wyndham didn’t care if the contracts were stripped or had 2 years of MFs cost for the points used. Again shame on Wyndam as they bailed out what would’ve imploded on itself or shut it down. This went on for a few years before the mess
End result we all lost the credit pool.

Now I’ll stop every little scheme I can before it’s a problem!!!
The LITTLE scheme you & dgalati have laid out gets out of hand what could possibly happen ?
We all LOSE the benefit of borrowing points. Ovations start getting 75% of applications in December-January so they’ll require all points to be available, that could cause a hardship on an owner.

Greed & easy $$$ takes everything down!!! You start with a 200k points & the plan works, next time it might be 400k points then 1mil, then all of sudden more do it!!

Eventually it will be stopped & all of us owners will LOSE yet another benefit !!!!!!!!

Flip Flop @Braindead, You’ve already lost all credibility as a flip-flopper.
You’re going on my ignore list. You can continue being close-minded judging anybody who uses TS differently from you. We are all not on this planet forever. Hopefully, the TUG legacy I leave behind is helping and not judging others, even for their mistakes and poor financial decisions, and for mostly following my morals and ethics. On the other hand, it’s sad that the tug legacy you will leave behind is flip-flopping, being judgmental, and over generalizing.

You’re over generalizing anybody who doesn’t pay MF as upper middle-class. Really? What about @simpsontruckdriver going through the Great Rescission? What about GoChiefsOrBust who had financial difficulties but had to worry about her credit score and lawsuits.

 

[Fredflintstone]

@Grammarhero, I can’t count how many retired folks on fixed incomes and suffering from a disability posting a request for assistance with their timeshare dilemma. Some are clearly scared and want to know whether to pay MF and forget buying groceries.

Not everyone is well off. I have read many posts from wonderful, hard working decent folks who just want to put food on their tables and sadly can not afford to travel or have a timeshare anymore due to sudden life changes. It’s not their fault life happens.

I know how it feels. I was raised very poor. Even to this day, I am afraid of being poor again and still lead a simple, modest life. I am labelled sometimes as a cheapskate when in reality I can’t get my extreme poverty experiences out of me. To this day, I volunteer my time to help those less fortunate because I’ve been there.

Folks like what I have mentioned above deserve a hand up. Not be coldly told to meet their contractual obligations and forget to buy shoes for their feet. I think we call that compassion, understanding and caring.

It saddens me when people don’t look at the whole picture and just label someone as a stiff or deadbeat without looking deeper into the situation.

It’s people like @Grammarhero who try to make the lives of others a bit better.


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[Fredflintstone]

And...that’s why I applaud folks like @Grammarhero who do get the whole picture. Thanks for that @Grammarhero.


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[Fredflintstone]

@Grammarhero, it also saddens me that some folks think “rich, upper middle class” are just trying to find ways to shirk their responsibilities and imply they are greedy and without feelings. That is simply incorrect.

As I said earlier, I was raised very poor. I decided at a young age that I will crawl out of poverty. It was not easy. I went to school on bursaries, scholarships and delivering pizza. I remember I would deliver pizza in minus 20 weather on my bike with plastic bags on my feet because I didn’t have any money and was too proud to ask.

Through hard work and determination, I crawled out and yes do very well. My colleagues are also well off and we all volunteer to help those less fortunate. I have created an Inter-vivos trust that supports homeless kids and continuously dump more funds in the trust. My colleagues do similar to vulnerable folks.

You are doing volunteer and there are many wonderful things you do that you don’t have to.

So, again some folks sputter off without knowing what they are talking about. If they crafted some intelligence and do prudent research, they would probably eat their words and feel foolish.


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[Cyrus24]

Flip Flop @Braindead, You’ve already lost all credibility as a flip-flopper.

I really do not think you've been around long enough to call BD a flip-flopper. If you've read as many of his posts as I have read, you might actually see that he is very consistent in his views and perspectives. And, when his view have changed, he has acknowledged that. He is just as concerned about the next owner as any of us, yourself included, are. He has a lot of historical perspective on schemes gone bad. As do most who were around in 2016-2017.

What you are doing is perfectly legal inside Wyndham world. A legal scheme. At some point Wyndham will stop the scheme, my hope. and the hope of others is that we don't all pay the price for the scheme gains of a few.

I'd like address another point in this thread. I doubt that any of us were born with spoons in our mouths, as has been subtly expressed in a couple of posts. If we were, we'd not be looking for TS benefits, we'd be staying in Hilton and Marriott Hotel suites, not being bothered with figuring out how to best stretch our travel dollars. Most of us, I suspect, grew up wanting more that what we had and then working to get it. I love the quality vacations I get to take at this point in my life, I only wish I had stopped to better understand how to stretch the vacation dollar with timeshares while my kids were young. My adult children are beneficiaries of my knowledge and, for that, I'm pleased

Let's try to look for the good in everyone and if you need to ignore someone, including me, please do so.

 

[Grammarhero]

I really do not think you've been around long enough to call BD a flip-flopper. If you've read as many of his posts as I have read, you might actually see that he is very consistent in his views and perspectives. And, when his view have changed, he has acknowledged that. He is just as concerned about the next owner as any of us, yourself included, are. He has a lot of historical perspective on schemes gone bad. As do most who were around in 2016-2017.

What you are doing is perfectly legal inside Wyndham world. A legal scheme. At some point Wyndham will stop the scheme, my hope. and the hope of others is that we don't all pay the price for the scheme gains of a few.

I'd like address another point in this thread. I doubt that any of us were born with spoons in our mouths, as has been subtly expressed in a couple of posts. If we were, we'd not be looking for TS benefits, we'd be staying in Hilton and Marriott Hotel suites, not being bothered with figuring out how to best stretch our travel dollars. Most of us, I suspect, grew up wanting more that what we had and then working to get it. I love the quality vacations I get to take at this point in my life, I only wish I had stopped to better understand how to stretch the vacation dollar with timeshares while my kids were young. My adult children are beneficiaries of my knowledge and, for that, I'm pleased

Let's try to look for the good in everyone and if you need to ignore someone, including me, please do so.

Respectfully, I stand by my comments about Flip Flop @Braindead. He was for a strip operation before he was against it.

I never labeled TS owners as well-off. @Braindead did. He labeled anyone who stopped paying MF as well-off and easily affording MF, from the below screenshot. Shouldn’t you be telling @Braindead to look for the good in everyone? Including myself and anyone who can no longer afford MF?

Instead, @Braindead has began a nearly week-long crusade to condemn and discredit me, including my sharing with TS owners, many elderly and on fixed incomes and can no longer afford MFs, information about TS state foreclosure laws.

 

[Fredflintstone]

What you are doing is perfectly legal inside Wyndham world. A legal scheme. At some point Wyndham will stop the scheme, my hope. and the hope of others is that we don't all pay the price for the scheme gains of a few.

I'd like address another point in this thread. I doubt that any of us were born with spoons in our mouths, as has been subtly expressed in a couple of posts. If we were, we'd not be looking for TS benefits, we'd be staying in Hilton and Marriott Hotel suites, not being bothered with figuring out how to best stretch our travel dollars. Most of us, I suspect, grew up wanting more that what we had and then working to get it. I love the quality vacations I get to take at this point in my life, I only wish I had stopped to better understand how to stretch the vacation dollar with timeshares while my kids were young.

Let's try to look for the good in everyone and if you need to ignore someone, including me, please do so.

Although I respect your points and do believe we should look into the good in everyone, I refer to the above comment @Grammarhero added regarding Lawyers making 100s of thousands a year.

You are right, the Wyndham system is legal and so far is allowed. Regardless of whether you worry about their future moves (if they even make moves)., Wyndham does have the option to make changes at anytime for any reason on any benefit provided. From the Wyndham contracts I have read, they all had the clause that terms can change at their sole discretion. Whether the concept is posted on TUG or not, folks will discover this on their own and use it to their benefit. So, Wyndham changing the benefit will most likely not be caused by the TUG posts but caused by folks unrelated to TUG exercising it if they even make the adjustments in the first place.

In my mind, we all want to derive maximum benefits from our various timeshare benefits. That’s not immoral, illegal or improper. That’s simply clever. I hope I am safe to say that one of the reasons you read TUG is to learn how to best use your timeshare benefits. Sadly, I have found from many resources with a common theme that folks are dissatisfied with their timeshare because they don’t know the benefits and thus don’t maximize them.

Just from my experiences, many tuggers are fairly well off which you alluded to. I think your thesis that if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be timesharing in the first place. I agree with you. The few tuggers I do know personally are good, caring and sharing people who have nothing but good intentions.

I appreciated your comment on trying to get maximum value on your vacations. That is awesome in my books.

Where I have exception is when folks are labelled, smeared and slammed for what they are doing. That’s where I like to correct them. I always value and respect viewpoints even when they do not coincide with my views as long as there is no labelling.

Thank you for your comments. They were well crafted.


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[Cyrus24]

Respectfully, I stand by my comments about Flip Flop @Braindead. He was for a strip operation before he was against it.

I never labeled TS owners as well-off. @Braindead did. He labeled anyone who stopped paying MF as well-off and easily affording MF, from the below screenshot. Shouldn’t you be telling @Braindead to look for the good in everyone? Including myself and anyone who can no longer afford MF?

Instead, @Braindead has began a nearly week-long crusade to discredit me, including my sharing with TS owners, many elderly and on fixed incomes, information about TS state foreclosure laws.

I did not read into BD's post the same things that you did. You have readily volunteered your occupation and net worth so that statement was true. And, I have to suspect that those participating in schemes such as those described are generally more well off and easily affording of MF's. so I agree with that statement. I did not read where he criticized those with financial issues. I think you may be projecting some of your feelings as fact. We all do that, BTW.

To your credit, I appreciate you sharing knowledge on state TS laws. To the extent that you are helping the duped rescind,, I'm glad you are here. And, if you are helping others in financial straights rid themselves of TS's, very good.

 

[Grammarhero]

I did not read into BD's post the same things that you did. You have readily volunteered your occupation and net worth so that statement was true. And, I have to suspect that those participating in schemes such as those described are generally more well off and easily affording of MF's. so I agree with that statement. I did not read where he criticized those with financial issues. I think you may be projecting some of your feelings as fact. We all do that, BTW.

To your credit, I appreciate you sharing knowledge on state TS laws. To the extent that you are helping the duped rescind,, I'm glad you are here. And, if you are helping others in financial straights rid themselves of TS's, very good.

To clarify, if Wyndham suspends my booking privileges, I'm not paying MF. If Wyndham doesn't, I'm paying MF.

Do you see where @Braindead says information about TS state foreclosure isn't helpful for those with real financial issues. Really? Seriously? Flip Flop @Braindead wrote,
"that's the financial class this information is helping. If you can't pay it doesn't matter what state you're in or what it does to your credit score. Why does TUG think this is good information for the well off that say the hell with it I'm Walking away."

Really? Like @simpsontruckdriver , GoChiefsorBust, or @Xolodno weren't worried about their credit scores or lawsuits?

 

[Cyrus24]

that's the financial class this information is helping. If you can't pay it doesn't matter what state you're in or what it does to your credit score." Really? Like @simpsontruckdriver , GoChiefsorBust, or @Xolodno weren't worried about their credit scores?

We will have to agree to disagree on your perception of his statement. People who can't pay a MF most likely have much bigger worries than a credit score, ie. health, job loss, death of spouse, divorce, etc. While I applaud you, again, for helping those in need, the credit score was probably not the biggest worry in their lives. I do suspect that most of the regular posters here think about how to keep our scores above 750 to 800.

 

[Grammarhero]

We will have to agree to disagree on your perception of his statement. People who can't pay a MF most likely have much bigger worries than a credit score, ie. health, job loss, death of spouse, divorce, etc. While I applaud you, again, for helping those in need, the credit score was probably not the biggest worry in their lives. I do suspect that most of the regular posters here think about how to keep our scores above 750 to 800.

What do you think of @Braindead 's statement, "Why does TUG think this is good information for the well off that say the hell with it I'm Walking away"?

 

[Cyrus24]

I don't plan on going back to revisit that post for context or state of mind. I know that BD cares about his ownership and the ownership of others. Just as you and I do. I'd like to leave it at that.

 

[Grammarhero]

I don't plan on going back to revisit that post for context or state of mind. I know that BD cares about his ownership and the ownership of others. Just as you and I do. I'd like to leave it at that.

I'm glad that you can leave things as that. Unfortunately, @Braindead , trying to discredit my TUG contributions, believed the shared information on TS state foreclosure laws are helpful for only the well-off. Those considering defaulting MFs, including widows, elderly, sick, and unemployed, are also afraid of deficiency lawsuits, not only credit score decreases. Thus, information on TS state foreclosure laws are helpful for them as well.

 

[dgalati]

No scheme going on If all parties have full disclosure. Many would buy at $100 dollars or less all in hoping to have end of year use, would use 2nd year use and then would sell deed as quick as possible for whatever the market would allow. Now since the negative points issue will not allow many to sell they will be forced to use Ovations. A big win for Wyndham picking up a free deed even with Wyndham letting owner use current use year points.

 

[Braindead]

What do you think of @Braindead 's statement, "Why does TUG think this is good information for the well off that say the hell with it I'm Walking away"?

Part of my statement you seem to ignore.

“ If you can’t pay it doesn’t matter what state you’re in or what it does to your credit score.”
True or False?
If credit score is the deciding factor, they have the financial means to pay their financial responsibilities.

 

[dgalati]

No scheme going on If all parties have full disclosure. Many would buy at $100 dollars or less all in hoping to have end of year use, would use 2nd year use and then would sell deed as quick as possible for whatever the market would allow. Now since the negative points issue will not allow many to sell they will be forced to use Ovations. A big win for Wyndham picking up a free deed even with Wyndham letting owner use current use year points.

Wyndham referred to the buyers and sellers as traders of deeds. Wyndham can also be considered the largest trader of deeds.