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Holy Smokes. In Nov/Dec 2019, Four Wyndham Transfers w 1/19 use year

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Heros? Not paying fees? Have you heard of "collection agencies? You have a bad case of deniability. So far other long term owners have not chimed in. This idea is not new, and you are too new to have history on your side.

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So, how was this your trying to provide helpful information?
 
It is most difficult to tell a person they are wrong when they know they are right.

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So, how was this your trying to provide helpful information?
 
So, how was this your trying to provide helpful information?
So, how was this your trying to provide helpful information?
So, how was this your trying to provide helpful information?
You should not have previously said i was talking out of my butt. You became so entrenched with your research that you focused on consequences. You would not realize you are not dealing with consequences of the law but the rules of the club. You were right but your wrong.

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You should not have previously said i was talking out of my butt. You became so entrenched with your research that you focused on consequences. You would not realize you are not dealing with consequences of the law but the rules of the club. You were right but your wrong.

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You should not have said my conduct was probably an illegal real estate transaction. Those are strong accusations. Those posts belie your claims of sincerely providing "helpful" Wyndham advice.

You say it's unfortunate that I took what you said as a personal attack, but can you really blame me?
 
I may have misunderstood this. After you give the deed back to Wyndham, do they give you 3 extra years of usage for free.

If not, then Wyndham can do nothing.
 
I may have misunderstood this. After you give the deed back to Wyndham, do they give you 3 extra years of usage for free.

If not, then Wyndham can do nothing.

If you are using Ovations to divest a Wyndham contract that is eligible for the Limited Edition Ovations program and you have specifically asked for it, Wyndham has the option of giving you 3 years of points free. There isn't any guarantee that what you have will be acceptable and the program could change in the future; the key is that you have to ask for it, though - if you don't they will likely not offer it even for a contract that would have been eligible.

The gist of the remainder of this thread has been on the benefit of using Ovations or otherwise disposing of an obligation to continue to pay the fees for a year in which you have already used up the points for that year, possible by borrowing the points from a future year without ever having paid for them. Seems like a theoretical way to get the most vacation for the least outlay, but Wyndham controls when and what they would take through Ovations and under what terms so there isn't much to it that isn't hypothetical IMHO. The discussion also touched on the benefits of acquiring a points-based TS late in the year so that you can use the points without having to pay for them either, similar to how folks agree to provide a free usage when transferring any TS.

In any case, Wyndham can also control the timeframe in which it executes a transfer on the resort contract side, which would affect who Wyndham bills when the divestiture is not to them. It wouldn't, of course, affect any agreement terms in which a seller and a buyer decide who pays when, but the only time I could see a buyer agreeing to pay the seller's usage would be for a contract that has low MFs or is otherwise valuable.
 
If you are using Ovations to divest a Wyndham contract that is eligible for the Limited Edition Ovations program and you have specifically asked for it, Wyndham has the option of giving you 3 years of points free. There isn't any guarantee that what you have will be acceptable and the program could change in the future; the key is that you have to ask for it, though - if you don't they will likely not offer it even for a contract that would have been eligible.

The gist of the remainder of this thread has been on the benefit of using Ovations or otherwise disposing of an obligation to continue to pay the fees for a year in which you have already used up the points for that year, possible by borrowing the points from a future year without ever having paid for them. Seems like a theoretical way to get the most vacation for the least outlay, but Wyndham controls when and what they would take through Ovations and under what terms so there isn't much to it that isn't hypothetical IMHO. The discussion also touched on the benefits of acquiring a points-based TS late in the year so that you can use the points without having to pay for them either, similar to how folks agree to provide a free usage when transferring any TS.
I thank and respect you for being fair and consistent to me, although we have not always agreed.
 
WRT Ovations, apparently Wyndham already includes terms in the program to prevent MF avoidance either through cancellation of future reservations that would use the points or rental of points to zero out the balance on a contract before they will accept it.
 
You should not have previously said i was talking out of my butt. You became so entrenched with your research that you focused on consequences. You would not realize you are not dealing with consequences of the law but the rules of the club. You were right but your wrong.

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You said you would deposit 2019 points into RCI. You do know when you deposit 210,000 points Wyndham deposits 378,000 points into your RCI account? Thats just about 44% more points. It's a VIP benefit for gold + RCI has nightly stays. You said you subsidize points with your sons work schedule. Does he travel to cities RCI has resorts?

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You said you would deposit 2019 points into RCI. You do know when you deposit 210,000 points Wyndham deposits 378,000 points into your RCI account? Thats just about 44% more points. It's a VIP benefit for gold + RCI has nightly stays. You said you subsidize points with your sons work schedule. Does he travel to cities RCI has resorts?

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I think you are confusing me with @SNA27, who is sincerely against any strip operations. SNA27 and I started off on the wrong foot, but we began to like and respect each other despite our differences.
 
You should not have said my conduct was probably an illegal real estate transaction. Those are strong accusations. Those posts belie your claims of sincerely providing "helpful" Wyndham advice.

You say it's unfortunate that I took what you said as a personal attack, but can you really blame me?
Im not going there.

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I thank and respect you for being fair and consistent to me, although we have not always agreed.

Thanks for that, @Grammarhero. I just come here to learn from the community and to share what I've learned. I appreciate the knowledge that you've contributed and value your participation in the discussion whether or not we agree on everything.
 
Wyndham will not complete an Ovation process without future years’ points accounted for. This was part of the requirements when I used Ovation earlier this year: “Point’s usage: Future year’s points must be unused or reservation must be canceled or point rental option is also available.”

So if Ovation was started in 2021, 2022 points would need to be available or paid for if already used.
@paxsarah you are correct. Unfortunately many don't know Wyndham already has in place rules preventing the stripping of deeds. Ovations will not take back deeds without future use year points available unless you pay $12/1000 on any future use year points not available. Wyndham will not transfer ownership on a private sale without future use year points but Wyndham will transfer ownership without current use year points even if seller used all points and has no reservations to cancel. The intent of this policy was to prevent a buyer from not receiving points that were promised or a buyer receiving a stripped deed. This new policy also creates a negative balance for seller on a private sale. This negative balance in the past two years zeroed out at the beginning of the next use year but beginning in 2020 Wyndham will start charging $12/1000 on any negative balances. This policy was intended to limit traders of deeds (buying, using all points then selling with no current use year points) This policy also helps Wyndham take back deeds with Ovations if a owner can use current use year points before returning to Wyndham with ovations. Wyndham was taking back deeds this summer through Ovations allowing owners to use current use year points. Wyndham allowed owners to use current use year points in exchange for Wyndham receiving a deed that can be resold at $200/1000. Wyndham told me this summer no negative balance would be created when giving back through Ovations when no current use year points are available. Since Ovations is a moving target and it is done on a case by case basis all of the above can and will be changed to suit Wyndham at time of requesting the Ovation exit strategy.
@Grammarhero
Wyndham Ovations acceptance letter with all stipulations. Pease note no reference to use of current use year points.

This email is to recap that you are voluntarily agreeing to participate in the Ovation by Wyndham program and understand and agree to the following requirements as we discussed today.

Maintenance Fee: Must be and stay current until process is complete. Any paid fees are not refundable.

Documentation to return inventory: You understand that you will receive by email/mail documentation to return your inventory within 8-10 weeks. These documents must be signed, notarized, and returned within the number of days indicated on the documentation. Please keep in mind the sooner the documentation is returned the earlier the process may be completed. Once the document is received, it may take within 6-8 weeks for documents to be approved and the cancellation to be completed.

Third Party Company Assistance: You understand that retaining counsel or third party company to assist with the Ovation program may disqualify your application.

Title Issues: Discrepancies with owner recorded transfer deeds, issues with chain of title, missing documentation needed to record with deed to return inventory, proof of name changes, estate matters etc. and other changes that were not received by Wyndham Title department, may delay the process until proper documentation is received.

Ownership: You must own contract for at least 12 months

Third Party Financial Institution: Any portion of loan paid using a credit card or any other financial institution (PayPal, bank loan, mortgage equity or other) is of sole responsibility of owner accepting an Ovation option.

Reservations: All reservations will be canceled and points forfeited. You will be able to keep any secured reservation paid with Resort Condominium International (RCI).

New Travel reservations during Ovation process: In the event that you book a reservation during this process your request to return your inventory may be cancelled. In case you use your points/credits with Wyndham Destinations or one of its business partners (Travel, RCI, and others) during the process, your cancelation may be interrupted and you will have to wait until the next use year to participate in the Ovation program, once all points are available.

Point’s/Credit usage: Future year’s points/credits must be unused or reservation must be canceled or point rental option is also available.

Multiple contracts: One acknowledgement per contract is required and must be returned.

Ovation by Wyndham offer: Program and inventory acceptance may change without notice. Any changes in the program, will not impact a case that is in process.


Kind Regards,
 
A question:

If you exercise Ovations, are you banned from Wyndham from purchasing any future intervals?

I think I read that somewhere but could be wrong.




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I cancel and rebook now. I just make sure I book, before I cancel. Do it all the time. I book what I need, then I keep an eye out at 60 days for the points to drop, and as long as there is availability, I can book a room, then cancel the higher point room. I don't see a problem with this.
This would be considered Book, rebook, then cancel. Is this a strategy to use your ownership to your advantage? Or as some have accused others of are you taking advantage and abusing a loophole in the system for personal gain?
 
A question:

If you exercise Ovations, are you banned from Wyndham from purchasing any future intervals?

I think I read that somewhere but could be wrong.




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I have heard that also bu not sure if it has any truth to it. Many are still owners that have used Ovations and have bought additional Ownership through developer and resale after Ovations.
 
I think if someone Ovates some but not all of their contracts, they can buy again. Also, I’m pretty sure if someone Ovates their entire account and receives three years of Limited Edition use, they cannot buy again. What I’m not sure we know is whether if someone uses Ovations to get rid of all of their contracts without any free usage, if they could purchase again later.
 
A question:

If you exercise Ovations, are you banned from Wyndham from purchasing any future intervals?

I think I read that somewhere but could be wrong.

I've seen that in eBay listings for WorldMark accounts, but not all of them. One that's there now says the following:

If you were a previous Wyndham or WorldMark owner and have gone through their Ovations program, you will not be eligible to own another timeshare from them per Wyndham/WorldMark.
 
I've seen that in eBay listings for WorldMark accounts, but not all of them. One that's there now says the following:

If you were a previous Wyndham or WorldMark owner and have gone through their Ovations program, you will not be eligible to own another timeshare from them per Wyndham/WorldMark.
No reference to not being able to own again in the Wyndham Ovations acceptance letter for a resale owner receiving no 3 years of free use.
 
@paxsarah you are correct. Unfortunately many don't know Wyndham already has in place rules preventing the stripping of deeds. Ovations will not take back deeds without future use year points available unless you pay $12/1000 on any future use year points not available. Wyndham will not transfer ownership on a private sale without future use year points but Wyndham will transfer ownership without current use year points even if seller used all points and has no reservations to cancel. The intent of this policy was to prevent a buyer from not receiving points that were promised or a buyer receiving a stripped deed. This new policy also creates a negative balance for seller on a private sale. This negative balance in the past two years zeroed out at the beginning of the next use year but beginning in 2020 Wyndham will start charging $12/1000 on any negative balances. This policy was intended to limit traders of deeds (buying, using all points then selling with no current use year points) This policy also helps Wyndham take back deeds with Ovations if a owner can use current use year points before returning to Wyndham with ovations. Wyndham was taking back deeds this summer through Ovations allowing owners to use current use year points. Wyndham allowed owners to use current use year points in exchange for Wyndham receiving a deed that can be resold at $200/1000. Wyndham told me this summer no negative balance would be created when giving back through Ovations when no current use year points are available. Since Ovations is a moving target and it is done on a case by case basis all of the above can and will be changed to suit Wyndham at time of requesting the Ovation exit strategy.
@Grammarhero
Wyndham Ovations acceptance letter with all stipulations. Pease note no reference to use of current use year points.

This email is to recap that you are voluntarily agreeing to participate in the Ovation by Wyndham program and understand and agree to the following requirements as we discussed today.

Maintenance Fee: Must be and stay current until process is complete. Any paid fees are not refundable.

Documentation to return inventory: You understand that you will receive by email/mail documentation to return your inventory within 8-10 weeks. These documents must be signed, notarized, and returned within the number of days indicated on the documentation. Please keep in mind the sooner the documentation is returned the earlier the process may be completed. Once the document is received, it may take within 6-8 weeks for documents to be approved and the cancellation to be completed.

Third Party Company Assistance: You understand that retaining counsel or third party company to assist with the Ovation program may disqualify your application.

Title Issues: Discrepancies with owner recorded transfer deeds, issues with chain of title, missing documentation needed to record with deed to return inventory, proof of name changes, estate matters etc. and other changes that were not received by Wyndham Title department, may delay the process until proper documentation is received.

Ownership: You must own contract for at least 12 months

Third Party Financial Institution: Any portion of loan paid using a credit card or any other financial institution (PayPal, bank loan, mortgage equity or other) is of sole responsibility of owner accepting an Ovation option.

Reservations: All reservations will be canceled and points forfeited. You will be able to keep any secured reservation paid with Resort Condominium International (RCI).

New Travel reservations during Ovation process: In the event that you book a reservation during this process your request to return your inventory may be cancelled. In case you use your points/credits with Wyndham Destinations or one of its business partners (Travel, RCI, and others) during the process, your cancelation may be interrupted and you will have to wait until the next use year to participate in the Ovation program, once all points are available.

Point’s/Credit usage: Future year’s points/credits must be unused or reservation must be canceled or point rental option is also available.

Multiple contracts: One acknowledgement per contract is required and must be returned.

Ovation by Wyndham offer: Program and inventory acceptance may change without notice. Any changes in the program, will not impact a case that is in process.


Kind Regards,

Thank you for posting this; it is helpful information for all of us to have. It would be a very good idea to copy and paste this into a new thread titled "Ovations" so it would be easy to find when anyone is looking for this information.
 
Thank you for posting this; it is helpful information for all of us to have. It would be a very good idea to copy and paste this into a new thread titled "Ovations" so it would be easy to find when anyone is looking for this information.
Will do Jan.
 
If you are using Ovations to divest a Wyndham contract that is eligible for the Limited Edition Ovations program and you have specifically asked for it, Wyndham has the option of giving you 3 years of points free. There isn't any guarantee that what you have will be acceptable and the program could change in the future; the key is that you have to ask for it, though - if you don't they will likely not offer it even for a contract that would have been eligible.

The gist of the remainder of this thread has been on the benefit of using Ovations or otherwise disposing of an obligation to continue to pay the fees for a year in which you have already used up the points for that year, possible by borrowing the points from a future year without ever having paid for them. Seems like a theoretical way to get the most vacation for the least outlay, but Wyndham controls when and what they would take through Ovations and under what terms so there isn't much to it that isn't hypothetical IMHO. The discussion also touched on the benefits of acquiring a points-based TS late in the year so that you can use the points without having to pay for them either, similar to how folks agree to provide a free usage when transferring any TS.

In any case, Wyndham can also control the timeframe in which it executes a transfer on the resort contract side, which would affect who Wyndham bills when the divestiture is not to them. It wouldn't, of course, affect any agreement terms in which a seller and a buyer decide who pays when, but the only time I could see a buyer agreeing to pay the seller's usage would be for a contract that has low MFs or is otherwise valuable.


Do you get the free 3 year worth of points with resales or only developer purchase.
 
I've seen that in eBay listings for WorldMark accounts, but not all of them. One that's there now says the following:

If you were a previous Wyndham or WorldMark owner and have gone through their Ovations program, you will not be eligible to own another timeshare from them per Wyndham/WorldMark.
I gave one back and still in good standing. It may be that i still owned other contracts. They were retail contracts i still owned.

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Do you get the free 3 year worth of points with resales or only developer purchase.

I'm not sure whether there are hard and fast rules for that. It probably depends on the desirability of the contract you are "Ovating."
 
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