• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
Status
Not open for further replies.

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,003
Reaction score
4,676
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
It also might leave those large units available longer to anyone with enough points to book rather than booked early by a VIP who is unwilling to pay the full price but grabs it along with a smaller unit to rebook for a discount and then cancel with the expectation of an upgrade. If units remain unbooked because they are too expensive pointwise than they will still be taken either as an upgrade or a discount (but probably not both) by a VIP during the appropriate window.

For what its worth RCI has a checkbox for upgrades for platinum members (free) and non (paid if upgrade occurs) and the system only checks once a day (or so it seems to me) for the upgrade. The rest of the time the unit would sit until booked by someone else or if you call and find a guide during business hours who could manually do the upgrade (most wouldn't have the foggiest clue).
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
It also might leave those large units available longer to anyone with enough points to book rather than booked early by a VIP who is unwilling to pay the full price but grabs it along with a smaller unit to rebook for a discount and then cancel with the expectation of an upgrade. If units remain unbooked because they are too expensive pointwise than they will still be taken either as an upgrade or a discount (but probably not both) by a VIP during the appropriate window.

For what its worth RCI has a checkbox for upgrades for platinum members (free) and non (paid if upgrade occurs) and the system only checks once a day (or so it seems to me) for the upgrade. The rest of the time the unit would sit until booked by someone else or if you call and find a guide during business hours who could manually do the upgrade (most wouldn't have the foggiest clue).

That would be something to see... the 3 bedrooms remaining available until 60 days out
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,003
Reaction score
4,676
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
That would be something to see... the 3 bedrooms remaining available until 60 days out
They might not last until 60 days out because there is a lot of time for members to decide if they are willing to pay full points value On the Wyndham board you often see those who didn't credit pool and have points expiring that they don't want to deposit in RCI. There may be enough of those types who would rather pay full points to use up those points for a large unit rather than converting to airfare or MF or RCI or not. You might end up seeing the points managers booking up quadruple (or more) units in the hopes of cancelling and getting some upgrades.
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
They might not last until 60 days out because there is a lot of time for members to decide if they are willing to pay full points value On the Wyndham board you often see those who didn't credit pool and have points expiring that they don't want to deposit in RCI. There may be enough of those types who would rather pay full points to use up those points for a large unit rather than converting to airfare or MF or RCI or not. You might end up seeing the points managers booking up quadruple (or more) units in the hopes of cancelling and getting some upgrades.

and if they dont last until 60 days there wont be any reserved at a discount, (if our worst fears are realized)

i think that there are enough owners (There are over 500000 of us after all) who expect to pay and are willing to pay full price. A three bedroom at Bonnet Creek is 308000; under $2000 a week for most of us.. less than $300/night or put another way $100 per night per bedroom

I never understood why anyone would pay for a presidential unit but they are the only 4 bedrooms at Bonnet Creek 424000 points or $2500 a week $360 a night $90 per bedroom ...

Ask someone who rents there, what they get for a 3 or 4 bedroom... I think there is a market and I dont think there will be any left at 60 days
 

wjappraise

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
1,356
Points
373
Location
Michigan
and if they dont last until 60 days there wont be any reserved at a discount, (if our worst fears are realized)

i think that there are enough owners (There are over 500000 of us after all) who expect to pay and are willing to pay full price. A three bedroom at Bonnet Creek is 308000; under $2000 a week for most of us.. less than $300/night or put another way $100 per night per bedroom

I never understood why anyone would pay for a presidential unit but they are the only 4 bedrooms at Bonnet Creek 424000 points or $2500 a week $360 a night $90 per bedroom ...

Ask someone who rents there, what they get for a 3 or 4 bedroom... I think there is a market and I dont think there will be any left at 60 days

If an owner hopes to make even a small profit, the asking price for Bonnet Creek and other units will have to rise dramatically. The prices you noted for a four bedroom Presidential will require $400-$500 per night to cover the cost including guest fees. Redweek and other resources show units a LOT cheaper than that right now.

So a "market correction" is likely. Right now the expectation of many renters is to get a two bedroom unit for the cost of a hotel room. If cancel and rebook goes away so will that cost level.

And the expectation of renters will mean that some dry times will be coming for owners who rent out units. I am astounded when an owner lists a beautiful unit on TUG for a ridiculously low cost of $100 per night, that potential buyers have the gall to offer half that for the room.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

CO skier

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
4,106
Reaction score
2,357
Points
448
Location
Colorado
If an owner hopes to make even a small profit, the asking price for Bonnet Creek and other units will have to rise dramatically. The prices you noted for a four bedroom Presidential will require $400-$500 per night to cover the cost including guest fees.
Bingo, with emphasis on the "dramatically". Very rarely will there be 3 or 4 bedroom Presidentials offered for $100/night.

And that is why, if Wyndham ever does anything to curtail the cancel/rebook or cancel/rebook/upgrade scams, many rental operations will fold.

End result, no additional units, but more accessibility for owner families to reserve their vacation. Something like what is happening now in WorldMark.
 

Bigrob

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
2,099
Reaction score
141
Points
273
Location
Centreville, VA
. You might end up seeing the points managers booking up quadruple (or more) units in the hopes of cancelling and getting some upgrades.

I think this is quite likely... that even more of the units are gobbled up early by points managers so that they can then add themselves to the "waitlist", whether that waitlist is direct (for same unit type) or indirect (next unit down waiting for upgrade). Rather than seeing increased availability, it is possible the exact opposite will occur... at least until the discount window and possibly even until the cancellation window. I could see points managers "waiting out" the average owners until the average owners give up and remove themselves from the waitlist as they see it's too close to plan on the trip they want. Then and only then will the block of units get cancelled and fall... to the points managers' other accounts that are waiting with open arms to catch them.

Like physics, every action has an opposite reaction. Unlike physics, the reaction may not be an "equal" and opposite reaction.
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
The last time that there was a big change in club Wyndham was just before I bought my first contract guest fees were introduced, and the owner to owner transfer of points was stopped and loopholes that permitted easy and cheap platinum accounts were closed. Several renters went out of buseness and shortly thereafter so did the one points manager I knew of.

So when I posted questions on the old Wyndham owners forum about renting, the advice I got was don't even try, it's to hard and profit margins too slim and compitition too great to make a go of it. There was no way to compete with big platinum ownership their discounts

Well some of us that didn't know any better jumped in and did just fine. we found other ways to control platinum accounts.and we found sources of cheap points. And there were new ways to advertise and renting Wyndham points became pretty big, small business


So Wyndham has introduced a 10 nightly limit rule and has made cancel and rebook an iffy thing If Wyndham does something to return vip discounts to their original purpose I think we are looking at another turning point. Some of us will quit but there will be others that adapt and still others that will jump in with new and better ideas. Something my mentor in this thing made me understand is that nothing lasts forever, you must have a plan B.

The guys that have a plan B will do just fine and new guys that don't know any better will see opportunity in the new system, whatever it is and figure out how to exploit it


And if Wyndham is successful in closing us all down. Worldmark still works
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,003
Reaction score
4,676
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
I think this is quite likely... that even more of the units are gobbled up early by points managers so that they can then add themselves to the "waitlist", whether that waitlist is direct (for same unit type) or indirect (next unit down waiting for upgrade). Rather than seeing increased availability, it is possible the exact opposite will occur... at least until the discount window and possibly even until the cancellation window. I could see points managers "waiting out" the average owners until the average owners give up and remove themselves from the waitlist as they see it's too close to plan on the trip they want. Then and only then will the block of units get cancelled and fall... to the points managers' other accounts that are waiting with open arms to catch them.

Like physics, every action has an opposite reaction. Unlike physics, the reaction may not be an "equal" and opposite reaction.

While there may be debate about what is considered commercial activity for individual owners, there really is no doubt that the services of a point manager constitutes commercial activity. I believe DRI has taken a firm stance not only on anything beyond very modest rental activity by owners but especially on prohibiting owners from using a commercial points managers up to and including letters of intent to suspend accounts, suspend the use of guest certificates, cancelling reservations. I don't think DRI even tries to do this in a manner of suggesting rental disrupt owners chance to secure reservations. They simply say that it is prohibited by the rules of the club and everyone knows or suspects that they intent is to protect DRI's own rental profits.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,634
Reaction score
5,369
Points
798
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
The guys that have a plan B will do just fine and new guys that don't know any better will see opportunity in the new system, whatever it is and figure out how to exploit it
I don't think anyone expects (or even hopes) that renting goes away entirely. After all, any owner might find themselves needing to divest themselves of some extra points here or there, and if someone finds a way to make a bit of money within the spirit of the system, more power to them.

But. as Ron and others have pointed out, the present way in which inventory is managed allows VIP benefits to be used in ways the plan managers never anticipated. And, from the sounds of things, the plan managers didn't even know what was possible until they started trying to understand what was going on in these point-heavy accounts.
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
While there may be debate about what is considered commercial activity for individual owners, there really is no doubt that the services of a point manager constitutes commercial activity. I believe DRI has taken a firm stance not only on anything beyond very modest rental activity by owners but especially on prohibiting owners from using a commercial points managers up to and including letters of intent to suspend accounts, suspend the use of guest certificates, cancelling reservations. I don't think DRI even tries to do this in a manner of suggesting rental disrupt owners chance to secure reservations. They simply say that it is prohibited by the rules of the club and everyone knows or suspects that they intent is to protect DRI's own rental profits.

no question DRI is taking a different approach than Wyndham... and so is Bluegreen


Interestingly, and surprisingly going after the points managers dosent seem to be a thing Wyndham is doing. I dont think Wyndham can interfere with the relationship of a real estate broker and their clients. Wyndham is interested in it's owners. If an owner is renting to offset some or all of his maintenance fees, I think Wyndham will leave them alone. and if they are using a points manager to do the renting, I think they will be left alone too

Size of ownership matters, at least thats the way it seems to me. and most of the clients of the points managers are small owners just trying to cover their fees.
 
Last edited:

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
I don't think anyone expects (or even hopes) that renting goes away entirely. After all, any owner might find themselves needing to divest themselves of some extra points here or there, and if someone finds a way to make a bit of money within the spirit of the system, more power to them.

But. as Ron and others have pointed out, the present way in which inventory is managed allows VIP benefits to be used in ways the plan managers never anticipated. And, from the sounds of things, the plan managers didn't even know what was possible until they started trying to understand what was going on in these point-heavy accounts.


They understand now, I assure you... My bet is that Voyager was ready to go months ago, but they had to add some features to address the things they learned after talking to some of us suspendees. If there is a wait list or anything to restrict cancel and rebook, you can probably thank me and the others

sorry
 

Avislo

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
138
Points
123
They understand now, I assure you... My bet is that Voyager was ready to go months ago, but they had to add some features to address the things they learned after talking to some of us suspendees. If there is a wait list or anything to restrict cancel and rebook, you can probably thank me and the others

sorry

The new website portion was not ready for prime time.
 

wjappraise

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
1,356
Points
373
Location
Michigan
I don't think anyone expects (or even hopes) that renting goes away entirely. After all, any owner might find themselves needing to divest themselves of some extra points here or there, and if someone finds a way to make a bit of money within the spirit of the system, more power to them.

But. as Ron and others have pointed out, the present way in which inventory is managed allows VIP benefits to be used in ways the plan managers never anticipated. And, from the sounds of things, the plan managers didn't even know what was possible until they started trying to understand what was going on in these point-heavy accounts.

Well stated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,161
Reaction score
3,804
Points
499
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
A wait list or the auto upgrade check box will effectively end the cancel rebook trick because my cancellation will because your upgrade. And an end to cancel and rebook will mean that the megarenters won't get their discounts and renting won't be nearly as profitable without discounts. And without profits the number of rentals will go way down. (At least that's what I think)

But if this happens it won't be only renters that will be be hurt. There are a lot of VIP owners that don't rent but that do use the cancel rebook upgrade trick in exactly the same way the megarenters do. A waiting list or a waiting list for upgrades (the check box) will cut the purchasing power of their points in half too. They won't like that and that will be a problem for Wyndham

im convinced more than ever that they will find something that goes after the mega renters but leaves the individual owner alone

i have decided to quit guessing and wait. We will know in just a few months and that's when I'll begin my work to uncover loopholes

The other thing that any or all of the above measures will do is decrease the value of Wyndham ownership, precisely the opposite of what you'd think Wyndham corporate would want. There will be no reason to acquire more developer points to reach a VIP level.
 
Last edited:

wjappraise

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
1,356
Points
373
Location
Michigan
The other thing that any or all of the above measures will do is decrease the value of Wyndham ownership, precisely the opposite of what you'd think Wyndham corporate would want. There will be no reason to acquire more developer points to reach a VIP level.

That might be the reason change hasn't come yet. While owners who rent would be impacted, sales would be impacted more so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Sandy VDH

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
9,848
Reaction score
4,227
Points
648
Location
Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Wynd VIP Plat GF, HGVC Elite, WM, HICV, +
I have had several discussions this Wyndham lately. Since I had two issues, unrelated, that ended up created two cases. One case I got a survey and call back on. I had a lengthy conversation with them. Some about my issue they called about, some about just how VCs take calls, and trying to get a supervisor and then Owner Care in order to get a resolution I think I am owed. Some discussions were about their somewhat new edict to NOT be overly helpful to owners, but to follow explicitly all the rules of wyndham, as they will be audits by wyndham and they will be called to task if VC do not follow the rules. So if this is now the case I expect we will be having to go to owner care a lot more if we have issues.

Now honestly I have had NO issues with owner care, if you explain clearly, state your case, and explain what you want and why, I have always found them to usually be most accommodating and very timely. The only time there were delays was last september when all the problems came up with Pooling points and points showing as regular to us, but somehow getting un-associated with contracts(because of transaction activity) and were no longer eligible to be pooled. Owner care was slammed during that timeframe and that has been the only time they were not responsive on the day the call to owner care is made.

Now perhaps my experience with owner care is straight forward only because I track ALL my transactions and points inventory by each pool with Wyndham. Everyday I have transactions I go back the next day and screen capture the point status window and ensure the balance is what I expect. Since I have screen shots corresponding to everyday I have transactions it is pretty easy to get owner care to see what I am taking about and to agree with me and fix the problem. So perhaps my interactions with owner care are NOT typical. But with facts in hand owner care takes can be easy to deal with.

I have suggested to them that perhaps they need to have a bit of flexibility on their part with their treatment of owners. Everyone gets a pass or two, on specific items, under specific circumstances, it is noted on the owners account and why it was overridden. My example was the typo on the guest certificate. It should NOT having to take an 60 min or longer call, to have to finally get through everyone to then get to Owner Care to override Wyndham Systems from taking out an additional GC for each typo change, especially IF the account has done a GC exception had NOT been done that in the last 12 months.

I have suggested to Wyndham to they need to consider HOW they distinguish regular USE and thus allow for a little leeway in owner care, and how that is different from ABUSE. So what is USE vs ABUSE. Now USE is I call to correct an honest typo, I rarely make typos, but I made a honest mistake that I am trying to correct. Now ABUSE is more like I call and say I have a typo on first name but really I am changing the name completely, tomorrow I call again and say I have a typo but I am replacing the last name completely, as a way to change the GC with having to use another GC. In each case I am saying it is only a typo.

If there is NO tracking of exceptions by account, then there is NO way to tell the difference or monitor the trend by Wyndham. So what happens now is everyone is stuck in the strict Wyndham crackdown of All of the rules, and the attitude of live with it. Which in my opinion is an over reaction to no knowing what their VCs are doing or why. Especially if they suspected that some VCs were being nice and accommodating and perhaps even some VCs that perhaps were working in league with some mega renters, which indeed I do believe they did suspect. I do not know one way or another if this was ever proven to be true however.

If there is dated notes attached to the account when EXCEPTIONS are done, Wyndham can clearly see why the exception was made, who made it/approved it, and the date. They can then identify if there are trends by owners. Now here is the what wyndham can then control, what level of exceptions are allowed before the lockdown takes effect.

There always needs to be a balance of allowing overrides, but with controls. You need approval by supervisor (or Ower Care for some overrides) and exceptions are tracked, but it doesn't mean it should place undo burden on the owner in terms of time and frustration to fix.

I guess Wyndham is taking the Insurance industry model of Claims processing. Just deny every other claim, some people will call and fight it until they fix it, but others will try and give up or will just pay it because it is TOO much time and effort to fix. Thus it is MORE money in the pocket.

So I guess we will see, is Wyndham going to be the $$ is the only care, or is there some degree of Owner service still left inside Wyndham. There can be a bit of a balance, it doesn't have to be all about one or the other.
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
I for one have no problem with a crackdown on the rules Las long as I know what the rules are and as long as the Wyndham computers are programmed to enforce the rules

Regarding guest confirms I don't think it should make a difference what name is on the confirmation or how many times I change it. If I've paid the $100 who cares whether I change the name or not

But thats me
 

Sandy VDH

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
9,848
Reaction score
4,227
Points
648
Location
Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Wynd VIP Plat GF, HGVC Elite, WM, HICV, +
Regarding guest confirms I don't think it should make a difference what name is on the confirmation or how many times I change it. If I've paid the $100 who cares whether I change the name or not

Good point, I agree. They have their GC$$.

But the Wyndham computers are programmed to charge another GC for ANY change, even if a GC is already issued. So unless they change the programming, or the rules, they need to be able to make exceptions.
 

Avislo

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
138
Points
123
Good point, I agree. They have their GC$$.

But the Wyndham computers are programmed to charge another GC for ANY change, even if a GC is already issued. So unless they change the programming, or the rules, they need to be able to make exceptions.

When the system charges a Guest Certificate for another co-account owner, I have to call in to have it corrected. The new system may have corrected this problem.
 

uscav8r

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
266
Points
294
Location
Virginia
When the system charges a Guest Certificate for another co-account owner, I have to call in to have it corrected. The new system may have corrected this problem.

You cannot change bookings between co-owners online, and I would never burn a GC only to call it in anyway. I recommend always calling in to Wyndham to change to a different co-owner as step #1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jumoe

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
125
Reaction score
34
Points
138
Location
Nebraska
Big Rob, I assume you have been silent as you did sign the NDA, but can you at least share if Wyndham did complete a points audit, and if so, did they accomplish this in the promised 48 hours?
 

Bigrob

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
2,099
Reaction score
141
Points
273
Location
Centreville, VA
As of this moment, I have not received results of the points audit nor signed the NDA. I have been told, however, that the points audit is complete.
 

happyhopian

Guest
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
370
Reaction score
174
Points
203
and if they dont last until 60 days there wont be any reserved at a discount, (if our worst fears are realized)

i think that there are enough owners (There are over 500000 of us after all) who expect to pay and are willing to pay full price. A three bedroom at Bonnet Creek is 308000; under $2000 a week for most of us.. less than $300/night or put another way $100 per night per bedroom

I never understood why anyone would pay for a presidential unit but they are the only 4 bedrooms at Bonnet Creek 424000 points or $2500 a week $360 a night $90 per bedroom ...

Ask someone who rents there, what they get for a 3 or 4 bedroom... I think there is a market and I dont think there will be any left at 60 days

"put another way $100 per night per bedroom" - that is the disney price at the moderate resorts - $99-145. At which point do you lose business to folks who would rather stay at a disney resort with the extra amenities and transportation options. BC has to be a discount to disney but more expensive that kissimmee.

Folk bout VIP for discounts. Removing the discount option will strip people of their rights IMHO but we can fight this out till the cows come home. I still don't think Wyndham will do it.

Here is my other reason why - who's going to pay for the waitlist? Are they going to do RCI where they hold your points? Does this mean that I cannot use those point for anything else why I wait in hopes that a unit might come available? No with the automatic upgrade, if the unit does upgrade, do I get my points back or do I get a free upgrade? The VIP purpose isn't so much the upgrade, it's the discounted points. I stick with my position. They will add the new website, tie contracts to reservations to address problems with ARP, limit contracts per account and offer free upgrades to people who are not VIP while leaving the current VIP benefits in place. Disagree as you might, but we are all guessing including the folks I have talked to at Wyndham OC and corporate who say a myriad of options have been presented and discussed with lots of options but no one is exactly sure how it will all be implemented or what the total impact will be. Everyone has said this though: 'there will be revisions'. I too am sure of that
 

happyhopian

Guest
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
370
Reaction score
174
Points
203
Ask someone who rents there, what they get for a 3 or 4 bedroom... I think there is a market and I dont think there will be any left at 60 days

According to the prices on Ebay, outside of Christmas and spring break these units are renting for less than $100 a room. IF the price goes up will the demand remain. it would be a macro change and I am not sure of the elastic nature in that pricing market with all the other options available. At point, using their discounts BC is competitive in pricing to other similar 'non-disney' options but you nor I know the answer to that. I bet we find out before the summer is over how much of this speculation comes true :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top