[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[hjsweet2002]

I am so sick of Wyndham and VIP owners who only think about themselves

 

[Breezy52]

Interesting development to be sure. If Wyndham is listening - they should consider a limited time opportunity - perhaps between now and 12/31/2021 to allow current VIP owners that also hold resale contracts some type of conversion opportunity to convert resale contracts to VIP developer points (with a contract limit perhaps - such as up to x number of contracts and/or x amount of points), similar to what they have offered via piggyback contracts for example. I suspect there would be quite a few VIP owners who hold a resale contract or two, that may consider such a conversion, myself included.

I am a Worldmark owner and when Travelshare, which is their version I believe of VIP began, they converted our resale points when we added some additional points. It was well worth it and hopefully Wyndham will do what you are suggesting.

 

[Rolltydr]

I am so sick of Wyndham and VIP owners who only think about themselves

You mean the overwhelming majority of VIP owners whom this will not impact one iota?

 

[Jan M.]

??

How naive I was back then about how Wyndham could escape being held accountable for anything the salespeople said that wasn't in what we signed when we bought. I was still naive enough to believe things would change in regards to selling tactics they use on seniors after the whistleblower lawsuit. However Wyndham sales people continue to be guilty of senior abuse.

In spite of being told about book, cancel, rebook and upgrade repeatedly in sales presentations I never viewed it as some inalienable right because a salesperson told us about it. I've said repeatedly that I didn't do the book, cancel, rebook and upgrade because we always used too many of our points for me to be able to tie up that many points to do it. Added to that was the risk of losing the reservation in the process of doing it which would have made tying up all those points pointless. Lol. When it was no longer possible to do it with the advent of Voyager I did however understand other people's frustration even if it didn't impact us.

I will also understand other people's frustration about the loss of VIP benefits on their resale points. We do have some resale points now that we didn't have back 2016 that I intend to keep. When I bought them I did so with the expectation that in a few years things would once again change. In recent months I've been making sure I learn and understand the things I will need to know about how to use our resale points. Housekeeping credits, reservation transactions, etc. We've been VIP for 18 years so it's been awhile. Why would I keep resale points? Because our family needs are changing and I'll be booking more full point reservations. Our son and DIL are expecting their third child, A boy this time! They have two girls ages 5 and very soon to be 10. Our older granddaughter did swim team this summer. I'd hoped for a few more years before they became one of those families that can only go this week or that week.

I won't be surprised to also see some changes in regards to guest confirmations within the coming year. If that happens I'll push my sister harder to agree to let me add her and my nephew to our smallest deed so I don't have to keep using guest confirmations for them. So once again I'm not concerned about the impact it will have on us and have a plan.

I remember how I felt when I discovered owners were getting VIP benefits on resale points when it's clearly stated that resale points aren't eligible for VIP benefits. Not happy doesn't even come close. We're PR so you know we spent an obscene amount of money buying developer over the years. I was also resentful about the repeated and unnecessary loss of VIP benefits over the years. Even if I didn't use them I resented the program being whittled away when all they ever had to do is what they're currently doing. I still feel like I'm reeling in shock over this email today even though I fully expected it to happen no later than 2023.

Will this, the letters and the blackout lists be effective? Time will tell. What we can and should learn from this is to stop listening to people who say Wyndham can't or wouldn't do this or that for whatever reasons. They can and they are. And clearly they aren't worried about a mass exodus of VIP owners or resale flooding the market as many claimed they would be. It seems that Wyndham is out to make it as difficult as possible for some owners to find a way to adapt and change this time.

 

[VacayKat]

So, you asked Wyndham Sales, CS, and Owner Care before you purchased a Wyndham Contract from a 3rd party at pennies on the dollar (maybe even for free) for what it would have cost you to purchase that same contract from Wyndham? First, I find that hard to believe. But, assuming you were doing due diligence, you say you got the same answer from all three areas and they all said you would receive VIP benefits in perpetuity for that contract(s) even though it didn’t meet the criteria for VIP benefits which clearly state points must be purchased from Wyndham to qualify for VIP benefits? Sorry, not buying that.

So you misread. I was informed that AFTER purchasing a developer contract my resale would just be part of the account and thus would enjoy the same VIP benefits but that it would not contribute to achieving the level. Sorry if you don’t buy it, I’m not selling a pack of lies, simply stating the truth.

 

[bizaro86]

Wow. I think this will have a bigger impact on the market for Wyndham contracts than people are suggesting. Even if only a small number of VIPs have resale, there are some that have A LOT of points. It doesn't take too many accounts with 50 million resale credits in them getting sold to change the market dynamics.

I feel bad for those who have been depending on that. Maybe I'll finally be able to get a Canterbury resale at a reasonable price though, which would be nice.

 

[VacayKat]

Is this not how presidential reserve always worked? I thought it was like ARP, limited to the number of points in that contract.

Don’t think so - I mean for ARP yes, but I haven’t come up on any restrictions apart from that.

 

[troy12n]

I am so sick of Wyndham and VIP owners who only think about themselves

Let's flip this around... why should someone who paid for retail points really care that people who bought resale are no longer getting a free ride when it comes to VIP discounts and privilages?

Honestly answer the question. Everyone knew this day would come. I think most people (except 1, in particular) have been pretty civil in this thread...

There are some who actually feel some level of contempt for people freeloading VIP benefits for so long. Especially when the scope of such is to the tune of millions of points. And even moreso when they are running wanna-be landlord type businesses using these freeloading benefits.

This is what Wyndham is trying to fix.

 

[CO skier]

So you misread. I was informed that AFTER purchasing a developer contract my resale would just be part of the account and thus would enjoy the same VIP benefits but that it would not contribute to achieving the level. Sorry if you don’t buy it, I’m not selling a pack of lies, simply stating the truth.

At the time you upgraded your resale account to VIP, what sales, customer service, and owner care said was true, right? What sales neglected to tell you, that owners learned in 2008 and 2016 and 2020 and now in 2021 is that the rules can change. When the rules change, customer service and owner care has to catch up to the rules changes. Sales, customer service and owner care do not set policy for all time.

 

[CO skier]

In spite of being told about book, cancel, rebook and upgrade repeatedly in sales presentations I never viewed it as some inalienable right because a salesperson told us about it.

That thinking is very different from what you posted in 2016 regarding "certain legalities" (legal rights)

There are certain legalities involved when employees of a company make claims/promises on behalf of the company especially when those employees were making those claims/promises as instructed by the chain of command within the company to promote/sell the product.

fyi - I think you do not know what "inalienable rights" means. It has nothing to do with property rights or timeshares.

Nonetheless, your Club Wyndham VIP epiphany over a few years is instructive to those who think, now, like you did in 2016, and it will save them a lot of time on deciding whether or not to sellout -- maybe saving money on attorney fees, too.

It is Wyndham's sandbox. Wyndham management has, somehow, finally, awakened to this and is putting the hammer down to prioritize owners' usage for their personal vacations. Just like a Vacation Club should be.

 

[CO skier]

Everyone knew this day would come.

"Everyone?" In the past ? Really? Obviously NOT. Please quote the posts from these "everyones."

Can you point to any posts beyond "a certain one" that predicted "this day would come?"

Obvious NOW(!) that "this day" is here.

 

[CO skier]

Wow. I think this will have a bigger impact on the market for Wyndham contracts than people are suggesting.

Like how? CWA contracts are selling for $5/1000 points. Last fall/winter it was $2-3/1000 points.

If it should somehow go to $1 per CWA contract, how is that a "big impact?"

 

[Jan M.]

That thinking is very different than what you posted in 2016 regarding "certain legalities"


Nonetheless, your epiphany over a few years is instructive to those who think, now, like you did in 2016, and it will save them a lot of time on deciding whether or not to sellout -- maybe saving money on attorney fees, too.

2016/2017 was certainly a time of epiphanies in regards to Wyndham. I still can't wrap my head around how Wyndham manages to dodge any and all responsibility for what their employees, representatives of the company, say. Let me make it very clear that I was never saying that book, cancel, rebook and upgrade shouldn't have been stopped because of what the sales people said. However I understood then and I'll understand now that some owners are once again going to feel cheated, deceived, incensed, etc. I don't have to agree with something to be able to understand it.

Some people insist on trying to twist things to their advantage. Wyndham can't define commercial renting. The salespeople told us for years. How can they do that when... I'm not sure if it's a bid for sympathy or they've convinced themselves that their reasoning stands a snowball's chance. Really? Ask yourself who you know who has ever had that work for them in dealing with Wyndham? CO skier and I don't always agree with each other but on this we do. As he says it's time to decide if you're getting out or staying in and learning to accept how things will be moving forward.

Good luck to those of you willing to waste your money on attorneys. Class action? Make sure you ask about the expenses because they're not inconsiderable. They come off the top of any settlement before it's split and if you don't win or get a settlement big enough to cover them guess who pays them. Also ask around and see if you can find someone who's willing to tell you about what typically happens with your account while you're involved in a legal dispute with Wyndham.

 

[bizaro86]

Like how? CWA contracts are selling for $5/1000 points. Last fall/winter it was $2-3/1000 points.

If it should somehow go to $1 per CWA contract, how is that a "big impact?"

Well, that's certainly a big impact on a percentage basis. I do think $1/contract for CWA is likely coming back this winter. Prices are set based on supply and demand. Megas using VIP on resale points will be getting out, increasing supply of contracts. But megas were also previously a big source of resale demand, so demand will be down also. I think the combination of that takes prices down dramatically. Obviously ovation should keep the $0 value as a limit.

And for the folks who do have 50 million resale points $5/1000 is $250,000. Whereas $1/contract is ~$0. I'd think it was a big impact if I lost a quarter million dollars.

Anyway, I own zero Wyndham so no horse in this race.

 

[chapjim]

Is this not how presidential reserve always worked? I thought it was like ARP, limited to the number of points in that contract.

That's correct. I can only book at fourteen months reservations up to the total of my PR points.

 

[regatta333]

In signing into my account, I notice there is now a "Switch Memberships" selection under the drop-down menu for My Account. When I click on it, it shows my VIP Gold account and each of two resale accounts. Point balances are zero since I have no points remaining this year. I guess you will have to switch among the accounts to book, although I'm not sure why they didn't just group the non-VIP accounts together. This really adds a level of complexity that is not appealing.
Also, we are already not getting VIP upgrades, as discussed in another thread. You'd think they'd maybe focus on fixing existing problems before adding potential new ones that will result in more dissatisfaction with the broken booking system.

 

[chapjim]

I think it's likely that any existing reservation made and in the system before whatever date this takes effect will be honored as-is with whatever VIP benefits were attached to them at time of booking, but after that date, the new rules will apply.

There's no way they are going to grandfather VIP benefits to existing owners of resale contracts. They seem to be doing this as part of a strategy to cut down on renters, this seems to be just one more measure taken to get them to exit the system. And this might be the last straw.

But they certainly won't grandfather people in who bought hundreds of thousands or millions of points for pennies on the dollar. That cheapens "the brand"... and would be a slap in the face of anyone who bought retail

I think this is spot-on except I'm not so confident about your first paragraph. If Wyndham does honor existing reservations, it won't be an act of grace. Rather, it will be an admission that trying to do anything else is too daunting a task for its pitiful IT division.

We should and probably will have further discussions about what cheapens "the brand." Wyndham is already doing a pretty good job of that. Maybe they intend to hide behind the Travel & Leisure brand so people will forget that Wyndham stuck it to the ones who bought into their system, the ones who spent the most money on their product.

 

[Rolltydr]

I was informed that AFTER purchasing a developer contract my resale would just be part of the account and thus would enjoy the same VIP benefits but that it would not contribute to achieving the level.

That was actually true at the time and will be until this system update is implemented which allows Wyndham to differentiate between the points you bought from them, which do qualify for VIP, and the points you purchased from a third party which do not. Same is true for me. No rules have been changed. Wyndham created a way to enforce the rule which was already in place. Think of it like speeding. 50 years ago, the policeman had to guess how fast a car was moving. His guess may or may not have stood up in court. Then, the radar gun was invented. This gave police a much better way to determine if the driver was actually speeding or not. The law didn’t change. The police were given a better tool to enforce the already existing law.

 

[troy12n]

"Everyone?" In the past ? Really? Obviously NOT. Please quote the posts from these "everyones."

Everyone...

Let me repeat, EVERYONE knew this day would come. Because in this world you don't get something for nothing. Especially when there is money to be made, and when people are gaming the system. You would have to have been severely in denial, or just flat out lying if you didn't think this would happen.

Look at it this way, the free ride you got probably lasted longer than it should have.

Can you point to any posts beyond "a certain one" that predicted "this day would come?"

Obvious NOW(!) that "this day" is here.

I most certainly COULD, but i'm not going to, because it's such an absurd ask, and i'm not going to waste my time

 

[55plus]

In signing into my account, I notice there is now a "Switch Memberships" selection under the drop-down menu for My Account. When I click on it, it shows my VIP Gold account and each of two resale accounts. Point balances are zero since I have no points remaining this year.

I'm not seeing the drop down window or any other changes on my account this morning. Why some and not others?

 

[Sandi Bo]

I'm not seeing the drop down window or any other changes on my account this morning. Why some and not others?

I don't see it either. Tried chrome and safari.

 

[Rolltydr]

In signing into my account, I notice there is now a "Switch Memberships" selection under the drop-down menu for My Account.

Interesting. I don’t have that on mine. I don’t see any changes so far.

 

[kanerf]

In signing into my account, I notice there is now a "Switch Memberships" selection under the drop-down menu for My Account. When I click on it, it shows my VIP Gold account and each of two resale accounts. Point balances are zero since I have no points remaining this year. I guess you will have to switch among the accounts to book, although I'm not sure why they didn't just group the non-VIP accounts together. This really adds a level of complexity that is not appealing.
Also, we are already not getting VIP upgrades, as discussed in another thread. You'd think they'd maybe focus on fixing existing problems before adding potential new ones that will result in more dissatisfaction with the broken booking system.

Not seeing this in my account.

 

[Free2Roam]

I saw that briefly earlier this year when I owned a couple fixed weeks at Avenue Plaza. I have since given those back to Wyndham and that option went away. I figured it was related... but now I'm wondering if it was a preview to these changes. My account (which my sister now manages) has developer and resale contracts.

 

[regatta333]

I do have some fixed weeks, so that is probably what it is.