[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[T-Dot-Traveller]

My biggest complaint is that I will have to update my Wyndham Tracking spreadsheet for these changes.

Eric - I thought you had all your timeshare " spreadsheets " in your "between the ears" tracking device.
*****
Also - you should check if 48 "replies to a new post in 2 hours is some kind of TUG record

 

[VacayKat]

A little bit of info from wyndham:
another email will be coming out within the week.
this was done specifically for targeting the type of owner who got the commercial email. apparently wyndham doesn’t like their abuse of the perks. Folks like me with a small percentage resale (which is the only reason we ever bought more) don’t really factor in to their thoughts or cares. Apparently the people who this affects is VERY small.
Customer service is looped in but didn’t realize the email was going out and has rudimentary info. My guess is sales will still be touting the idea that it is all one bucket so VIP perks will apply to all points.
Wyndham will, at its discretion choose which reservations are VIPreservations and which are not. No idea how they will inform you, but there will be no recourse. No reservations should be canceled.
No current plan/info on bringing resale to developer points.
No info on the extra points- not even which use year (mine is july1 so the thought is that means 2022 use year but there are no real details.)

probably some other stuff, but that’s the main points I remember right now.

 

[Ty1on]

To all the VIP owners that doubted my insight and opinions on resale points being used with VIP discounts. I took a beating on this stance but Wyndham believes its the right thing to do for owners looking to book for personal use!

Gloating isn't helping anyone. If it helps you're self esteem, I digress.

 

[dgalati]

I'm going to take this opportunity to do something I try very hard not do even when it's completely justified; which is to say I TOLD YOU SO!

I've been saying Wyndham could do this since the Freeze of August 2016 and every one told me it wasn't possible for them to do it. Even though many of us know that the sales people and even the VC's can easily tell what's developer in our accounts and what isn't. I've also been saying it, and again more than once, since the owners meeting in Austin, TX in November 2019. At that meeting VP Annie Roberts was asked if Wyndham intended to take away the VIP benefits on resale points when Privileges came out. She replied that it had been discussed but wasn't going to happen at this time. I said that if Wyndham had discussed it then we should count on it happening at some point down the road. I didn't expected it to happen for another year or two but obviously the timeline got moved up.

I also said that with the demise of the then mega renters and point managers after the Freeze of August 2016 and Voyager in May 2017 that new ones would emerge to take their places. And that we would see a huge influx of amateur renting. That Wyndham wouldn't be happy about the rookie renters too cheap prices undercutting Extra Holidays. All it takes is a look at the posts in the Facebook group Club Wyndham Timeshare - Owners helping owners - Rentals welcome! to see how pervasive the renting has become and be convinced this was only a matter of time.

The other thing I've said is that was ignored/not believed is that the VIP benefits, discounts and upgrades, on resale points costs Wyndham more than people realize and probably more than Wyndham realizes. Remember the discussions about silos. Under the current leadership I think Wyndham is finally starting to realize just how much this actually costs them. If they don't they'll soon see the proof in the numbers.

It was a VIP abused loophole. It was stated in the members directory that only VIP points could be used with VIP benefits a few years back but was not in the last few.

Too far out for discounts and upgrades. These are at full points.

You are good.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Wyndham has not shown they can actually do it. Just able to announce it and hope it works with as few bugs as possible. I do not have faith in their it abilities. This is a way to male owners use up more points to clear the covid backlog.

If Wyndham is announcing this, I am sure it is in their test environment NOW!. Those screen images are NOT just mockups. It is wasn't close enough to being able to be delivered they would NOT be talking about it. The screen shots are likely test environment shots. I can't image them to be communicating a big change without testing if it could be accomplished first. That is how a lot of big new features get developed, tested and released. Those items that get pushed out in a weekly or biweekly update are bug fixes and other data issues. But some big change like this will have been planned, along with the Change Management and Communication Plan that goes with it.

 

[Ty1on]

A little bit of info from wyndham:
another email will be coming out within the week.
this was done specifically for targeting the type of owner who got the commercial email. apparently wyndham doesn’t like their abuse of the perks. Folks like me with a small percentage resale (which is the only reason we ever bought more) don’t really factor in to their thoughts or cares. Apparently the people who this affects is VERY small.
Customer service is looped in but didn’t realize the email was going out and has rudimentary info. My guess is sales will still be touting the idea that it is all one bucket so VIP perks will apply to all points.
Wyndham will, at its discretion choose which reservations are VIPreservations and which are not. No idea how they will inform you, but there will be no recourse. No reservations should be canceled.
No current plan/info on bringing resale to developer points.
No info on the extra points- not even which use year (mine is july1 so the thought is that means 2022 use year but there are no real details.)

probably some other stuff, but that’s the main points I remember right now.

It may have been born of the megarenter abuse, but take care not to mistakenly assume it won't apply to you, when in fact it could be a miscommunication or, as you said, owner services has rudimentary information. I can't imagine how they could reasonably draw a line between the abusers and the casual owners, a line so succinct that they can apply rules to one subset of owners and not another.

I don't believe they were correct in telling you Wyndham will decide from which bucket to fulfill a reservation (I'm professing this as belief, not knowledge). The new points screen they shared makes it look pretty clear to me that when you make a reservation, you will choose what bucket you want decremented. And this goes beyond developer vs resale....If you want to preserve CWA points for ARP, for example, choosing a non-CWA bucket to fulfill the reservation will allow you to do that. I envision it like a bank transfer where your banking app gives you a dropdown list to choose which accounts you want to transfer from and to.

 

[troy12n]

I suspect I'll end up using my big block of resale points to make 1-2 large reservations each year for our family vacations (which I usually did via RARP - which I'll no longer be able to do due to this change since VIP benefits won't apply). I would want to preserve my VIP eligible points for the smaller weekend getaway reservations that we make where I tend to use the VIP discount window and free upgrades available.

My big question is, how will the mechanics of this work. Currently there's no way to specify which points you use when making a booking. The system automatically removes points from your various contracts on an "expiring first" basis. If you have multiple contracts with identical use years, how would you be able to pick and choose which reservations use which bucket of points? If I remember right, you used to be able to manually pick which contract to pull from. Or I just may be remembering that wrong...

 

[Sandy VDH]

Here is the page in Wyndham if you did not get the email.

Online Benefit Summary

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

It states you will be able to select Developer or Resale as the points type, and the video shows that. Obviously there will be rules that apply to Resale that don't apply to Developer points.

 

[Manzana]

This makes me ask if I am need to borrow points will I be able to borrow from next years VIP bucket instead of this years non VIP if in the correct window. Also If points were moved forwards from this year to next what bucket did they come from. This is going to be very confusing but from Wyndhams point of view should save a lot of money. I do think they should explore a resale conversion as mentioned by Hitchhiker they could even make requirements and put a cap on it.

 

[VacayKat]

It may have been born of the megarenter abuse, but take care not to mistakenly assume it won't apply to you, when in fact it could be a miscommunication or, as you said, owner services has rudimentary information. I can't imagine how they could reasonably draw a line between the abusers and the casual owners, a line so succinct that they can apply rules to one subset of owners and not another.

I don't believe they were correct in telling you Wyndham will decide from which bucket to fulfill a reservation (I'm professing this as belief, not knowledge). The new points screen they shared makes it look pretty clear to me that when you make a reservation, you will choose what bucket you want decremented. And this goes beyond developer vs resale....If you want to preserve CWA points for ARP, for example, choosing a non-CWA bucket to fulfill the reservation will allow you to do that. I envision it like a bank transfer where your banking app gives you a dropdown list to choose which accounts you want to transfer from and to.

I said: it was CAUSED by the like. Little people like me do not FACTOR in to what wyndham did. Nor in my mind do I believe they give a hoot about us.

believe what you want- but for anything that has already been reserved, that is what they will do. Perhaps it was unclear that it was meant to cover what you had now.

 

[Ty1on]

My big question is, how will the mechanics of this work. Currently there's no way to specify which points you use when making a booking. The system automatically removes points from your various contracts on an "expiring first" basis. If you have multiple contracts with identical use years, how would you be able to pick and choose which reservations use which bucket of points? If I remember right, you used to be able to manually pick which contract to pull from. Or I just may be remembering that wrong...

Again, based solely on the depiction of the points screen, it appears that you would be able to select not from an individual contract, but from a bucket that contains points from like contracts. The example in Online Benefits Summary shows 750K of 1M Resale points available, 500K of 1M Developer WBC, 900K of 1M Discovery, and 250K of 1M Developer PR. So if you were this owner, and you wanted to make a 205K reservation, you would be able to pull it from Resale, Bonnet Creek Developer, or PR Developer. I don't know that Discovery members will be able to book online, even though it shows that on the example page.

And for the sake of argument, if you wanted to make a crazy 800K point reservation (just to stick with the example) and you didn't need developer benefits, you could use up the resale and then use 50K of the bonnet creek points. VIP benefits wouldn't apply to those 50K points.

 

[VacayKat]

Here is the page in Wyndham if you did not get the email.

Online Benefit Summary

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

It states you will be able to select Developer or Resale as the points type, and the video shows that. Obviously there will be rules that apply to Resale that don't apply to Developer points.

Not for anything currently reserved- they will decide. So only way to prevent that would be to cancel and hope they are still there later.

 

[Ty1on]

I said: it was CAUSED by the like. Little people like me do not FACTOR in to what wyndham did. Nor in my mind do I believe they give a hoot about us.

believe what you want- but for anything that has already beem reserved, that is what they will do. Perhaps it was unclear that it was meant to cover what you had now.

What sent me on that tangent was "Apparently the people who this affects is VERY small." My point was that even though the rule may be targeted at a very small pool of people, I think it will necessarily affect everyone who owns a combination of store bought and resale points.

 

[VacayKat]

My big question is, how will the mechanics of this work. Currently there's no way to specify which points you use when making a booking. The system automatically removes points from your various contracts on an "expiring first" basis. If you have multiple contracts with identical use years, how would you be able to pick and choose which reservations use which bucket of points? If I remember right, you used to be able to manually pick which contract to pull from. Or I just may be remembering that wrong...

They have apparently found a way to bucket your points in your account. The video shows transactions with points taken from multiple buckets. There is also a way to filter those transactions to determine the conditions it qualifies for. E.g. presidential reserve.

Which makes me wonder- are ALL points no longer usable for presidential reserve? Are they just the PR contract??????? Thinking that would piss off some owners who gave a lot of money.

 

[VacayKat]

What sent me on that tangent was "Apparently the people who this affects is VERY small." My point was that even though the rule may be targeted at a very small pool of people, I think it will necessarily affect everyone who owns a combination of store bought and resale points.

And from what I was told- the amount of resale owners with VIP is VERY small.

 

[Ty1on]

And from what I was told- the amount of resale owners with VIP is VERY small.

Got it, that's where I got lost.

 

[troy12n]

And for the sake of argument, if you wanted to make a crazy 800K point reservation (just to stick with the example) and you didn't need developer benefits, you could use up the resale and then use 50K of the bonnet creek points. VIP benefits wouldn't apply to those 50K points.

Having never owned any resale points, do those contracts still get a certain number of reservations and HK credits for free, based on how many points are in the contract? If so, and you would have the ability to scrutinize which contract you pull from, this may be less of an issue for your average joe, while at the same time sticking it to the renters...

 

[CO skier]

I'm going to take this opportunity to do something I try very hard not do even when it's completely justified; which is to say I TOLD YOU SO!

I've been saying Wyndham could do this since the Freeze of August 2016 and every one told me it wasn't possible for them to do it.

??

We don't have any resale contracts at this time but thanks to the people who post on TUG we plan to purchase a resale contract. We have owned Wyndham for 15 years, when they were still Fairfield, and attended sales presentations for two years prior to our first purchase. We cannot remember ever going to a presentation/update that the sales people haven't gone over the cancel/rebook/upgrade "privilege" as they have called it and they also discussed renting to help with the maintenance fees. This is why we and others bought developer points even when we learned that buying resale was an option. A seller cannot repeatedly, over an extended period of years, openly market and sell a product making claims and then fall back on "it's not in the contract" or "that's not how we intended the system to work" even though that is EXACTLY what they said. There are certain legalities involved when employees of a company make claims/promises on behalf of the company especially when those employees were making those claims/promises as instructed by the chain of command within the company to promote/sell the product.

 

[dgalati]

??

Hey @CO skier could you repost the members directory stating only VIP benefits can be used with developer points?

 

[Ty1on]

Having never owned any resale points, do those contracts still get a certain number of reservations and HK credits for free, based on how many points are in the contract? If so, and you would have the ability to scrutinize which contract you pull from, this may be less of an issue for your average joe, while at the same time sticking it to the renters...

Yes, it used to be 1 HK per thousand points, but they've changed it, I think to 1 HK per 77K? HKs are assigned one per stay rather than according to unit size now, so it doesn't mean they took 76 HK away. It does mean you are more likely to pay an expensive HK fee if you frequently book short stays.

Reservation Transactions were 1 free for every 77K points and I don't think that has changed. I don't think they would go so far as sequestering HK and Resv by bucket, because I'm not sure that would accomplish anything.

 

[CO skier]

Hey @CO skier could you repost the members directory stating only VIP benefits can be used with developer points?

Sorry, I have no desire to join team dgalati.

The search feature works well.

 

[SueDonJ]

Moderator Note: Posts have been deleted after a Report was generated by an ad posted in the thread. This is a reminder that the TUG Rules prohibit ads in the public forums, which means any ad-like posts and responses to them will be deleted.

Also, please be careful to follow the "Be Courteous" rule. Impacted Wyndham owners are understandably confused and anxious about all of these recent Wyndham actions, and the related threads are very important if all owners are to be able to understand all the impacts going forward. (As well, those of us who are interested but not impacted want to learn what might possibly be adopted by our timeshare companies.) Please, don't derail these threads with unnecessary digs at each other. Thanks!

 

[am1]

If Wyndham is announcing this, I am sure it is in their test environment NOW!. Those screen images are NOT just mockups. It is wasn't close enough to being able to be delivered they would NOT be talking about it. The screen shots are likely test environment shots. I can't image them to be communicating a big change without testing if it could be accomplished first. That is how a lot of big new features get developed, tested and released. Those items that get pushed out in a weekly or biweekly update are bug fixes and other data issues. But some big change like this will have been planned, along with the Change Management and Communication Plan that goes with it.

You have more faith then me. One December I had around 50 million points show up in my account. No one could figure out how that happened and at the end of the year they expired. Not sure if I used extra points or lost points on the deal. Other time it would take multiple tries to cancel a reservation but every time I tried it returned the points back to me. No one I spoke with knew why (reasonable) but no one ran it up the flag pole to find out. Many other glitches I found along the way.

 

[CO skier]

Yes, it used to be 1 HK per thousand points, but they've changed it, I think to 1 HK per 77K? HKs are assigned one per stay rather than according to unit size now, so it doesn't mean they took 76 HK away. It does mean you are more likely to pay an expensive HK fee if you frequently book short stays.

Reservation Transactions were 1 free for every 77K points and I don't think that has changed. I don't think they would go so far as sequestering HK and Resv by bucket, because I'm not sure that would accomplish anything.

Limiting "unlimited" reservations transactions and housekeeping to the VIP bucket might make a difference for grandfathered VIP accounts with a large amount of resale points.

 

[troy12n]

Yes, it used to be 1 HK per thousand points, but they've changed it, I think to 1 HK per 77K? HKs are assigned one per stay rather than according to unit size now, so it doesn't mean they took 76 HK away. It does mean you are more likely to pay an expensive HK fee if you frequently book short stays.

Reservation Transactions were 1 free for every 77K points and I don't think that has changed. I don't think they would go so far as sequestering HK and Resv by bucket, because I'm not sure that would accomplish anything.

Ok, so in theory, if you are VIP Gold and have 750k points, unlimited HK and Transactions, and another 500k resale, you would have ~16 Hk and Reservation "tokens".

Since your VIP points wouldn't need to use them, you would in effect have 16 available for your resale points... again, in theory?

Since different levels of VIP get different benefits (like grandfathered Silver has unlimited HK, but not transactions)?