[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[HitchHiker71]

And from what I was told- the amount of resale owners with VIP is VERY small.

Yes it is. I’ve mentioned here multiple times I’m various posts that the total of all resale contracts in the Wyndham system was reportedly 20k back in Nov 2019. Out of roughly 450k CWP owners at that time. In other words, less than 5%. This info came from attending the annual owners meeting in Austin. What I don’t know for sure is if that was the number of resale contracts, owners, or accounts. But in any case - as @VacayKat said, it’s very much a minority of owners. Not VIP owners mind you, which is an even smaller subset of that number.


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[Sandy VDH]

You have more faith then me. One December I had around 50 million points show up in my account. No one could figure out how that happened and at the end of the year they expired. Not sure if I used extra points or lost points on the deal. Other time it would take multiple tries to cancel a reservation but every time I tried it returned the points back to me. No one I spoke with knew why (reasonable) but no one ran it up the flag pole to find out. Many other glitches I found along the way.

Yes, Data is a funny thing. If it is right and you have the right systems and processing, it is good. But allowing people to over ride and not having the right controls or allowing manual adjustments, without an audit trail, then it is going to have issues. The system is only as good as the data transactions, and an audit would permit.

For most accounts it was probably fine.

2 Decades ago, I had a bank around that kept accidently clearly someone's processing through it, every month $30,000 was coming in and $29,000 ish was going out. So every month there would be a little bit left behind. Eventually they figure out it was a coding error on the account. When the original owners transactions weren't posting they finally did an audit and found it. Turns out it was a error based on the incorrect info originally provided. But with the correct audits, they can figure out who put it there and when.

My guess is Wyndham, based on their poor audit history, does not track that info adequately, and one account and not widespread accounts were impacted, so they just couldn't be bothered to fix it.

 

[Ty1on]

Ok, so in theory, if you are VIP Gold and have 750k points, unlimited HK and Transactions, and another 500k resale, you would have ~16 Hk and Reservation "tokens".

Since your VIP points wouldn't need to use them, you would in effect have 16 available for your resale points... again, in theory?

Since different levels of VIP get different benefits (like grandfathered Silver has unlimited HK, but not transactions)?

I thought I had read that unlimited HK had gone away, but I guess preexisting VIPs would be grandfathered into them. Firstly, if what you are suggesting is true, 16 HK applied to resale is less exploiting than unlimited. Secondly, the more I think about it, maybe that's a reason to sequester resale HKs.

 

[troy12n]

I thought I had read that unlimited HK had gone away, but I guess preexisting VIPs would be grandfathered into them. Firstly, if what you are suggesting is true, 16 HK applied to resale is less exploiting than unlimited. Secondly, the more I think about it, maybe that's a reason to sequester resale HKs.

If you were any level of VIP prior to November 2020 when they changed things, you had unlimited HK, and retained it after the change. Silver VIP definitely had unlimited HK prior to the change.

Apparently any new VIP level after the change in November 2020 does not get it if you were not at least Silver prior to the change.

The question was specifically whether or not they would be calculating things like transactions or HK tokens based on total ownership, or just non-vip ownership if your VIP level does not support a specific benefit.

The example I gave would be that a grandfathered Silver VIP would have unlimited HK, but not unlimited transactions. So would they calculate the different benefits separately, or based on total ownership... I guess we will find out at some point

 

[hjsweet2002]

I have been enticed by Wyndham to buy a small VIP contract and to do so my resale points would reap VIP benefits. Those who have bought andvusedvresale points with VIP benefits should be grandfathered. Another reason I don't trust Wyndham VIP program.. well here is another exaggeration Wyndham sales can use. I do not distinguish bewtween salesvand Wyndham. Sales is Wyndham.

 

[Ty1on]

If you were any level of VIP prior to November 2020 when they changed things, you had unlimited HK, and retained it after the change. Silver VIP definitely had unlimited HK prior to the change.

Apparently any new VIP level after the change in November 2020 does not get it if you were not at least Silver prior to the change.

The question was specifically whether or not they would be calculating things like transactions or HK tokens based on total ownership, or just non-vip ownership if your VIP level does not support a specific benefit.

The example I gave would be that a grandfathered Silver VIP would have unlimited HK, but not unlimited transactions. So would they calculate the different benefits separately, or based on total ownership... I guess we will find out at some point

The logical answer has to be that they must plan to track VIP hk and resv separately for both awarding and usage. It would be the only way to execute the separation of resale from VIP benefits, including the grandfathered unlimited.

The reason I struggle to answer that question is that I'm not VIP, and HK and resv are a nuance I haven't thought through.

 

[chapjim]

Does anyone have an idea what "balance your account for the current Use Year" means? How will they do it? Whatever it means, what are the chances they'll do it correctly?

 

[Ty1on]

Does anyone have an idea what "balance your account for the current Use Year" means? How will they do it? Whatever it means, what are the chances they'll do it correctly?

That, I think, is going to be the stickiest situation created by this change.

 

[Rolltydr]

I was. By sales , customer service and owner care,

So, you asked Wyndham Sales, CS, and Owner Care before you purchased a Wyndham Contract from a 3rd party at pennies on the dollar (maybe even for free) for what it would have cost you to purchase that same contract from Wyndham? First, I find that hard to believe. But, assuming you were doing due diligence, you say you got the same answer from all three areas and they all said you would receive VIP benefits in perpetuity for that contract(s) even though it didn’t meet the criteria for VIP benefits which clearly state points must be purchased from Wyndham to qualify for VIP benefits? Sorry, not buying that.

 

[SueDonJ]

Does anyone have an idea what "balance your account for the current Use Year" means? How will they do it? Whatever it means, what are the chances they'll do it correctly?

Whenever any of the timeshare companies give any kind of notice that they'll be working within accounts, the smart thing for all owners/members to do is take a screenshot or printout of their accounts as they exist prior to whatever work is done.

 

[Ty1on]

Whenever any of the timeshare companies give any kind of notice that they'll be working within accounts, the smart thing for all owners/members to do is take a screenshot or printout of their accounts as they exist prior to whatever work is done.

Best advice on this thread.

 

[Rolltydr]

The other problem will be dead points. You don't have either enough VIP or Non-VIP to make the reservation and not enough of either to make any reservation, so these points are effectively dead.

I assume we will still be able to borrow or rent points from the next use year so they wouldn’t be dead, just would need life support!

 

[SueDonJ]

Best advice on this thread.

I agree! It's one of the earliest tidbits I learned from all the people on TUG much smarter than me, and I'm happy to pass it on!

 

[Cyrus24]

I need to check my mail more often, just now catching up. I suspect I’ll be looking at dumping my small resale contract so that I can have a pure VIPP account. The resale is just clutter today but it will make account management hard down the road.

I suspect that there will be a massive dump of resale contracts.

I also see renting from an owner getting more difficult and much more expensive.

Final comment. Can’t wait to see how messed up the site will be once this rolls out, Wyndham IT has a pretty poor track record when rolling out big changes.

 

[paxsarah]

Does anyone have an idea what "balance your account for the current Use Year" means? How will they do it? Whatever it means, what are the chances they'll do it correctly?

They didn’t consistently do it correctly when they changed the housekeeping credits, and that was…a lot less complicated.

 

[Eric B]

Looks to me like for future years, once things shake out, owners will be the ones picking what bucket the points come from. The one thing I haven't seen is any hint of whether they will let you change your mind later and reallocate the point usage as is possible in some other systems. If they are willing to do that without charging additional reservation transactions, it won't be completely terrible. If they refuse to do that or charge reservation transactions to folks that chose the wrong bucket originally there will be a ton of very upset users.

 

[paxsarah]

Final comment. Can’t wait to see how messed up the site will be once this rolls out, Wyndham IT has a pretty poor track record when rolling out big changes.

Anyone planning to book in mid-August for a 10-month reservation for next June or a 13-month reservation for next September, godspeed!

 

[paxsarah]

Which makes me wonder- are ALL points no longer usable for presidential reserve? Are they just the PR contract??????? Thinking that would piss off some owners who gave a lot of money.

Is this not how presidential reserve always worked? I thought it was like ARP, limited to the number of points in that contract.

 

[hjsweet2002]

So, you asked Wyndham Sales, CS, and Owner Care before you purchased a Wyndham Contract from a 3rd party at pennies on the dollar (maybe even for free) for what it would have cost you to purchase that same contract from Wyndham? First, I find that hard to believe. But, assuming you were doing due diligence, you say you got the same answer from all three areas and they all said you would receive VIP benefits in perpetuity for that contract(s) even though it didn’t meet the criteria for VIP benefits which clearly state points must be purchased from Wyndham to qualify for VIP benefits? Sorry, not buying that.

I had already bought all my resale points when I was offered twice at two,different location to buy a small VIP contract and my resale points will be given VIP benefits. And as you have read those benefits were given to resale points to VIP owners in the past. Those who bought and have used those benefits in the past should be grandfathered.

 

[am1]

Best to move resale to a different use year.

 

[jfellenz]

[Threads merged.]

Here is an email I just received. Great year. First they take our prime weeks and weekends and now this.
WYNDHAM CARES but for who??


We hope your VIP by Wyndham benefits have helped you maximize your Club Wyndham experience. As a valued Club Wyndham Plus member with Founders VIP by Wyndham benefits, it is important that you are aware of an upcoming system update that will provide a more comprehensive view of your membership and support existing VIP by Wyndham program guidelines. This system update will not impact your VIP tier status. An overview of the system changes is outlined below:

Update to Your Online Experience

In mid-August, we will introduce a new online Benefits Summary, which will enable you to distinguish between points you have purchased directly from Club Wyndham (“VIP Eligible Points”) and points that have been acquired through the third-party resale market (“Non-VIP Eligible Points”). This distinction will help you better understand the points and VIP benefits associated with your membership.

Once this system update takes place, your VIP Eligible Points will continue to unlock the VIP benefits associated with your VIP tier. The system will award VIP benefits only to VIP Eligible Points. As a reminder, in accordance with the VIP by Wyndham program guidelines, VIP benefits are not applicable to Non-VIP Eligible Points.

The VIP benefits that will be available to VIP Eligible Points will include:

• VIP Suite Upgrade Opt-In

• Points Discounts

• Reciprocal Advance Reservation Priority

• Points Deposit - More Time To Extend Points

• More Time To Convert To Maintenance Dollars

• Additional Housekeeping Credits, based on VIP tier

• Complimentary Reservation Transactions, based on VIP tier

• Option To Request Specific Suites

• Early Access To Margaritaville Vacation Club Resorts

With this system enhancement, we will balance your account for the current Use Year and adjust benefits according to whether your reservation was made with VIP Eligible Points or Non-VIP Eligible Points. This reconciliation will only apply to reservations in the current Use Year.

As you adjust to this system update we are pleased to offer some options to help you maximize your vacation opportunities. Complimentary points will be deposited into your next Use Year when the system update takes place mid-August. Additionally, from the August system update through Dec. 31, 2021, you will have the option to convert your Non-VIP Eligible Points to maintenance fees or utilize the Points Deposit Feature to move your Non-VIP Eligible Points into a future Use Year.

Understanding the Benefits Summary

The new online Benefits Summary will streamline your view of your individual points and benefits and give you more control over how you use your membership.

Upon booking a resort reservation or making another type of transaction on your Club Wyndham website, you will be able to choose whether you would like to use your VIP Eligible Points or Non-VIP Eligible Points ─ you can apply VIP benefits for the reservation(s) where they can have the greatest impact. The Benefits Summary will update automatically to reflect your current points and benefits for each points type.

This new tool will put you in the driver’s seat as you check destinations off your bucket list.

This system update will help enforce a longstanding rule, as well as provide greater transparency into your points and associated benefits, while giving you the control to prioritize your vacations. By better preserving the exclusivity and value of the VIP by Wyndham program, we continue to ensure your VIP tier helps you unlock fantastic benefits and elevate your vacations.

For more information on the Benefits Summary and this system update, please visit your Club Wyndham website, and sign up for an upcoming education session. You may also reach a dedicated support team by calling 844-991-0921.

Sincerely,

Your Club Wyndham Management Team

 

[troy12n]

There's already a 4 page long post...

 

[troy12n]

I had already bought all my resale points when I was offered twice at two,different location to buy a small VIP contract and my resale points will be given VIP benefits. And as you have read those benefits were given to resale points to VIP owners in the past. Those who bought and have used those benefits in the past should be grandfathered.

Na... why would they do that. Wishful thinking.

 

[troy12n]

I think it's likely that any existing reservation made and in the system before whatever date this takes effect will be honored as-is with whatever VIP benefits were attached to them at time of booking, but after that date, the new rules will apply.

There's no way they are going to grandfather VIP benefits to existing owners of resale contracts. They seem to be doing this as part of a strategy to cut down on renters, this seems to be just one more measure taken to get them to exit the system. And this might be the last straw.

But they certainly won't grandfather people in who bought hundreds of thousands or millions of points for pennies on the dollar. That cheapens "the brand"... and would be a slap in the face of anyone who bought retail

 

[Rolltydr]

I had already bought all my resale points when I was offered twice at two,different location to buy a small VIP contract and my resale points will be given VIP benefits. And as you have read those benefits were given to resale points to VIP owners in the past. Those who bought and have used those benefits in the past should be grandfathered.

I own 2 resale contracts in addition to 450k CWA developer points which qualify for VIP Silver, grandfathered. I have nothing anywhere in writing that states those resale points qualify for VIP. On the contrary, I do have documents from Wyndham that state only developer points qualify for VIP. When I purchased those resale contracts, I was told I would receive VIP benefits until and unless Wyndham devised a way to segregate the points. Wyndham apparently has done so. If you have something in writing stating anything different, I’d love to see it.