[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[55plus]

Sounds like the incessant postings by @dgalati had the bad effect they were intended to have. Those of you that had spoken with Wyndham management at the annual meetings might consider contacting the ones you have phone numbers for.

Some odd points in this email are the promised deposit of complimentary points in the next use year and the extended window for PDF to move non-VIP points to a future year.

I still don't understand what the, "complimentary points in the next use year" actually means?

 

[VacayKat]

Does Ovations even exist anymore? Isn't it now called Certified Exit? Either way, Wyndham can chose and pick which contracts they'll take back. Do they want the old non popular locations or the ones not in CWA? I'm sure they'll take back the high demand locations so they can roll them into CWA. CWA is the future of timesharing.

So I was trying to ask Certified Exit questions yesterday. I wanted to know which contracts they considered non VIP and what my offer was. [we have a complicated account, and I think just one is resale, but it could be a couple that add up to that amount. But there is no way for us to know because of how Wyndham imports and reassigns account numbers] The lady on the phone not only was unable to even tell (or maybe too lazy to look) which contracts were which, but when I finally convinced her to look into them, she hung up on me.
I would wager that if Wyndham doesn't set up a dedicated line for this type of transaction it's going to overwhelm the folks who are working in the department and respond in a way that clearly indicates they would rather be working anywhere else.

 

[Ty1on]

The resort restrictions still need to be in place to weed out the mega renters. High demand location reservations at 13 months aren't really affected the change other than maybe a few fees. Without the timeframe/guest certificate restrictions they'll continue to reserve a large amount of timeframes at the more desirable resorts using ARP. Or Wyndham can implement a guest certificate limitation along with some other restrictions may fix the problem Maybe after several years when all the mega renter are gone they'll lift the restrictions and things will be back to normal for the owner who uses their points for personal travel, not for commence.

A megarenter might be leveraging 20 million points with 1 million legit developer points. I think this is going to put a bigger dent in that small handful than you think.

 

[bnoble]

Might be easier to combine the systems much like they have with Shell.

WM is a pure trust product, while Wyn is a blended trust/owned product. I think combining them would be very difficult. I also don't see much reason to do so--both systems are already large enough that the blended size isn't a sales tool. Heck with Club Pass, they are "combined" from a sales floor perspective.

 

[Ty1on]

I still don't understand what the, "complimentary points in the next use year" actually means?

I understand it as depositing some customer satisfaction type points in your next use year if you are one of the affected owners. (Yes I giggled while I typed that)

 

[Ty1on]

Heck with Club Pass, they are "combined" from a sales floor perspective.

 

[VacayKat]

I understand it as depositing some customer satisfaction type points in your next use year if you are one of the affected owners. (Yes I giggled while I typed that)

I have to say as an owner who has had life-changes that preclude using the amount of points we currently own until new job vacation is built back up adding more points just makes it so that we have to try to figure out how to get others to use them or to bank them - which essentially contributes to the problem we're seeing now with the glut of points from covid roll overs. How about just a MF credit and call it good??

 

[55plus]

A megarenter might be leveraging 20 million points with 1 million legit developer points. I think this is going to put a bigger dent in that small handful than you think.

Unless restrictions are kept in place and/or implement GC limits/restrictions, renting won't be affected that much. Wyndham need to do this to clean house and bring the Club back to what it is intended to be. Just my opinion.

 

[Ty1on]

I have to say as an owner who has had life-changes that preclude using the amount of points we currently own until new job vacation is built back up adding more points just makes it so that we have to try to figure out how to get others to use them or to bank them - which essentially contributes to the problem we're seeing now with the glut of points from covid roll overs. How about just a MF credit and call it good??

My guess is that they would be depositing points from the developer pool on which they are already paying maintenance fees, but a MF credit would be an additional hard cost to the company, as the associations still need to be paid.

 

[Eric B]

I still don't understand what the, "complimentary points in the next use year" actually means?

I believe the simplest way for them to accomplish that would be as "Bonus" contracts similar to how they do when you buy from them. As for how many they provide, I'm not sure what they're thinking. Since the complimentary points are to be VIP-eligible, I would guess that they are either matching an owner's VIP-eligible buckets or providing enough to offset the reservations they have made for the year under the assumption that VIP benefits would apply. They've kind of set themselves up to have a bunch of reservations already on the books for stays with upgrades requested that could have been using non-VIP-eligible points and unwinding them would mess up a lot of arrangements.

 

[55plus]

Has anyone contacted RonP to let him know the gig is finally up?

 

[Ty1on]

Has anyone contacted RonP to let him know the gig is finally up?

Isn't he out of the game?

 

[55plus]

I believe the simplest way for them to accomplish that would be as "Bonus" contracts similar to how they do when you buy from them. As for how many they provide, I'm not sure what they're thinking. Since the complimentary points are to be VIP-eligible, I would guess that they are either matching an owner's VIP-eligible buckets or providing enough to offset the reservations they have made for the year under the assumption that VIP benefits would apply. They've kind of set themselves up to have a bunch of reservations already on the books for stays with upgrades requested that could have been using non-VIP-eligible points and unwinding them would mess up a lot of arrangements.

This make a lot of sense to me now. If this it what Wyndham is doing, good for them. It shows, 'Wyndham Cares.'

 

[55plus]

Isn't he out of the game?

Yes he is, but I know he'd be interested in this development. He was a Rockstar when it came to rentals and playing the system.

 

[Rolltydr]

I have to say as an owner who has had life-changes that preclude using the amount of points we currently own until new job vacation is built back up adding more points just makes it so that we have to try to figure out how to get others to use them or to bank them - which essentially contributes to the problem we're seeing now with the glut of points from covid roll overs. How about just a MF credit and call it good??

Or, Donate your Wyndham points to Vacations for Vets

 

[keno999]

There have been some long-standing grudges between some folks here in the Wyndham corner of TUG, and at least some of what you are seeing is probably rooted in that. I have most of those folks on my ignore list, so I don't have to wade through it anymore. That makes some of the Wyndham threads hard to understand, and I probably miss out on some important stuff, but it's more pleasant that way.

I get that. I certainly have gotten help from a lot of folks in in the Wyndham corner of TUG. It's not a good look but everyone has a bad day and I try not to judge too harshly.

 

[HitchHiker71]

WM is a pure trust product, while Wyn is a blended trust/owned product. I think combining them would be very difficult. I also don't see much reason to do so--both systems are already large enough that the blended size isn't a sales tool. Heck with Club Pass, they are "combined" from a sales floor perspective.

Unless the majority of each respective timeshare ownership block were to approve an actual merging of the systems - nothing like this is even legally permissible. At best the online system could be enhanced to offer Club Pass type features electronically. This topic was raised at the Austin annual owners meeting as well and the COO indicated to everyone during the Q&A session exactly what I’m stating here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ty1on]

There have been some long-standing grudges between some folks here in the Wyndham corner of TUG, and at least some of what you are seeing is probably rooted in that. I have most of those folks on my ignore list, so I don't have to wade through it anymore. That makes some of the Wyndham threads hard to understand, and I probably miss out on some important stuff, but it's more pleasant that way.

And frankly, a good percentage of the basis of these grudges has been a lack of understanding of VIP benefits and how their costs are shouldered.

 

[Manzana]

WM is a pure trust product, while Wyn is a blended trust/owned product. I think combining them would be very difficult. I also don't see much reason to do so--both systems are already large enough that the blended size isn't a sales tool. Heck with Club Pass, they are "combined" from a sales floor perspective.

You are correct. I really meant making booking through Club Pass online possible. As you would be able to book with retail points not resale now it would be easier to breakdown.

 

[paxsarah]

As someone who's trying to parse what any of this means in practice for us non-VIPs (assuming we'll have a similar dashboard of benefits, just minus the VIP-specific ones), I have questions about two possibly related things included on Wyndham's informational webpage. One is in the picture at the top of the page:

The top line is simply "Club Wyndham Plus" with a subheader of "Resale." The next line has "Home Resort" followed by "Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort" and then a subheader of "Developer."

Why don't the resale points have a home resort? Did they mean "Club Wyndham Access" (which would be a home resort, but it wasn't labeled as such) where they put "Club Wyndham Plus"? Should I not worry too much because this mockup/test screen is clearly fantastical? (Nobody's going to have a million Discovery points plus Presidential Reserve, or 44 RARP transactions available, etc.) Should I worry a lot because whoever decided to use this as an example clearly had no idea of what would look realistic to an actual owner, and thus how is this going to be implemented with all staff trained in the next 3+ weeks?

So the second question which may or may not be related is this. Near the bottom under "Important Information" (which why does that have to be expanded? Just make all of the information immediately viewable!) is this bullet point:

• Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.

What in the world does this mean? The only extended booking available to VIPs would be RARP and Margaritaville, which are already mentioned earlier on the page. I'm hoping that this is just some kind of weird confusion written by a marketing person, and not some limitation in booking window on resale points. Should this bullet point mean something obvious/benign that I'm missing?

Another question I'm just curious about although it doesn't pertain to me - for owners who own some developer and some resale points but are not VIP, are they going to be forced to distinguish between their VIP-eligible and resale contracts when booking? I'm thinking of the short video with the drop-down on the vacation search screen. As of now, all of the differences between non-VIP retail accounts and all-resale accounts are things that have to be called in (Club Pass, Plus Partners, etc.), so their online booking process could be essentially the same as mine (as an all-resale owner). It would be a pain for them to have to make choices between different types of points every time they book.

 

[jwalk03]

I wonder if someone who only owns developer bought points will see that drop down with resale option? I sure hope so! Maybe it will make more owners realize that there is a better way than buying from Wyndham!!

 

[Ty1on]

As someone who's trying to parse what any of this means in practice for us non-VIPs (assuming we'll have a similar dashboard of benefits, just minus the VIP-specific ones), I have questions about two possibly related things included on Wyndham's informational webpage. One is in the picture at the top of the page:
View attachment 37743
The top line is simply "Club Wyndham Plus" with a subheader of "Resale." The next line has "Home Resort" followed by "Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort" and then a subheader of "Developer."

Why don't the resale points have a home resort? Did they mean "Club Wyndham Access" (which would be a home resort, but it wasn't labeled as such) where they put "Club Wyndham Plus"? Should I not worry too much because this mockup/test screen is clearly fantastical? (Nobody's going to have a million Discovery points plus Presidential Reserve, or 44 RARP transactions available, etc.) Should I worry a lot because whoever decided to use this as an example clearly had no idea of what would look realistic to an actual owner, and thus how is this going to be implemented with all staff trained in the next 3+ weeks?

So the second question which may or may not be related is this. Near the bottom under "Important Information" (which why does that have to be expanded? Just make all of the information immediately viewable!) is this bullet point:

• Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.

What in the world does this mean? The only extended booking available to VIPs would be RARP and Margaritaville, which are already mentioned earlier on the page. I'm hoping that this is just some kind of weird confusion written by a marketing person, and not some limitation in booking window on resale points. Should this bullet point mean something obvious/benign that I'm missing?

Another question I'm just curious about although it doesn't pertain to me - for owners who own some developer and some resale points but are not VIP, are they going to be forced to distinguish between their VIP-eligible and resale contracts when booking? I'm thinking of the short video with the drop-down on the vacation search screen. As of now, all of the differences between non-VIP retail accounts and all-resale accounts are things that have to be called in (Club Pass, Plus Partners, etc.), so their online booking process could be essentially the same as mine (as an all-resale owner). It would be a pain for them to have to make choices between different types of points every time they book.

Searching under VIP points would reveal RARP reservations that wouldn't be visible under non-VIP, and also for Express period reservations, I imagine it would reveal the reservations at the points discount rate for VIP but not non-VIP. Also if I'm not wrong, Margaritaville is only available to MVC contracts and VIP, so that should show up under VIP but not non-VIP non-MVC.

As for your other observations, I caught that with Club Wyndham Plus too, and just assumed it to be a mockup. They can't take home resort ARP away on resales. Uhhh. Can they? Maybe they plan to give a permanent advanced reservation period for all resorts to VIP, that's the only way the bullet point would make sense distinct from MVC and RARP already mentioned.

 

[Ty1on]

I wonder if someone who only owns developer bought points will see that drop down with resale option? I sure hope so! Maybe it will make more owners realize that there is a better way than buying from Wyndham!!

I like the way you think!

 

[WhiskeyJack]

Does anyone have an idea what "balance your account for the current Use Year" means? How will they do it? Whatever it means, what are the chances they'll do it correctly?

I think as well this could be the messiest item to implement. Why didn't they just make this effective starting Jan 1st? I know not all have use years that start then but likely majority do. This language is from the website:
"With this enhancement, your account will be updated for the current Use Year and benefits will be adjusted according to whether your reservation is made with VIP Eligible Points or Non-VIP Eligible Points">

My assumption on what this will mean is:
0> Wyn will look at your contracts and create two point buckets (VIP and Non-VIP) that at the start will equal the points from the contracts.
1> Wyn will go through every reservation made this year in your account. To get buckets right I assume they will start Jan 1st and progress from there.
2> Each existing reservation you made, Wyn will determine if if had to be made with VIP eligible or not; i.e. did you get a discount and/or an upgrade, or was it an RARP.
3> Based on decision in number 2 they will subtract the point value for the reservation from the appropriate bucket.
4> Any reservations that were made but have been subsequently cancelled I think they will likely just ignore those (i hope so at least). Would make it much more messy if not.

After their adjustments are made you will end up with a points balance in the 2 buckets. I think it likely the point total of the two buckets after the adjustment could be different than your current point total before the adjustment and if so would be lower in total. Because it could be lower, that is the reason for the complimentary points to be given next year.

The reason I think it could be lower is that the VIP bucket could be exhausted prior to reservations being made that will be considered VIP reservations. If that happens it seems to me they would then assume that reservation should have been made with Non-VIP points and adjust accordingly.

For example, if your VIP bucket has been exhausted, and after the point in time they considered it exhausted,
a new reservation was made that got the discount and/or an upgrade,
then Wyn will assume that reservation needed to be made with Non VIP points
and instead of deducting the value of points used when the reservation was made (say half a 2BD that was upgraded to a 3BD) they will deduct the value of the 3BD unit without a discount from the Non VIP bucket.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Ron P is still in the rental game. Just fyi.