[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[HitchHiker71]

As someone who's trying to parse what any of this means in practice for us non-VIPs (assuming we'll have a similar dashboard of benefits, just minus the VIP-specific ones), I have questions about two possibly related things included on Wyndham's informational webpage. One is in the picture at the top of the page:
View attachment 37743
The top line is simply "Club Wyndham Plus" with a subheader of "Resale." The next line has "Home Resort" followed by "Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort" and then a subheader of "Developer."

Why don't the resale points have a home resort? Did they mean "Club Wyndham Access" (which would be a home resort, but it wasn't labeled as such) where they put "Club Wyndham Plus"? Should I not worry too much because this mockup/test screen is clearly fantastical? (Nobody's going to have a million Discovery points plus Presidential Reserve, or 44 RARP transactions available, etc.) Should I worry a lot because whoever decided to use this as an example clearly had no idea of what would look realistic to an actual owner, and thus how is this going to be implemented with all staff trained in the next 3+ weeks?

I had many of the same observations regarding the use of what is obviously a multi-use case test account that is not a good representation of an average VIP owner. I think they were trying to show the various different points buckets that could exist here - especially given there is a "Discovery" points bucket included - which ordinarily wouldn't even exist for a permanent owner. In particular, I took note of the "Rental points" bucket in the graphic. Given these changes are designed to explicitly discourage rental activity and to target VIP owners that rent - that seems like something that could cause some heartburn if owner's notice that bucket. It also makes me wonder aloud - what is a rental points bucket for? Is that an EH points bucket in essence?

So the second question which may or may not be related is this. Near the bottom under "Important Information" (which why does that have to be expanded? Just make all of the information immediately viewable!) is this bullet point:

• Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.

What in the world does this mean? The only extended booking available to VIPs would be RARP and Margaritaville, which are already mentioned earlier on the page. I'm hoping that this is just some kind of weird confusion written by a marketing person, and not some limitation in booking window on resale points. Should this bullet point mean something obvious/benign that I'm missing?

Wish I knew what that meant as well, along with a more nuanced and detailed definition of the "Complimentary points" item as others have already brought up on this thread. I think it will be more of a "goodwill points" bucket as opposed to a "bonus points" bucket - but that's just pure speculation on my part. I also dearly hope that Wyndham will share - at least with the impacted owners - how the complimentary points are being calculated - such that it takes the mystery out of this item - because we know beyond any shadow of a doubt that VIP owners who receive complimentary points will be comparing what they received and if left to speculate on our own about the how/why - IME it's not going to be a net positive for Wyndham.

Another question I'm just curious about although it doesn't pertain to me - for owners who own some developer and some resale points but are not VIP, are they going to be forced to distinguish between their VIP-eligible and resale contracts when booking? I'm thinking of the short video with the drop-down on the vacation search screen. As of now, all of the differences between non-VIP retail accounts and all-resale accounts are things that have to be called in (Club Pass, Plus Partners, etc.), so their online booking process could be essentially the same as mine (as an all-resale owner). It would be a pain for them to have to make choices between different types of points every time they book.

I suspect the points buckets will apply to any/all owners that have a hybrid retail/resale ownership - you'll have to choose which bucket to use when making reservations. I suspect the initial communication that some of us received (myself included) that are hybrid VIP owners - was only sent to like owners. A broader communication will likely be sent out for all non-VIP hybrid owners closer to when the online system changes will go into effect. Again pure speculation on my part to be clear.

 

[Ty1on]

Ron P is still in the rental game. Just fyi.

With Wyndham?

 

[VacayKat]

So the second question which may or may not be related is this. Near the bottom under "Important Information" (which why does that have to be expanded? Just make all of the information immediately viewable!) is this bullet point:

• Non-VIP Eligible Points will follow the standard booking timeline and VIP Eligible Points will have an extended booking timeline for reservations and transactions, in accordance with existing VIP guidelines.

What in the world does this mean? The only extended booking available to VIPs would be RARP and Margaritaville, which are already mentioned earlier on the page. I'm hoping that this is just some kind of weird confusion written by a marketing person, and not some limitation in booking window on resale points. Should this bullet point mean something obvious/benign that I'm missing?

Another question I'm just curious about although it doesn't pertain to me - for owners who own some developer and some resale points but are not VIP, are they going to be forced to distinguish between their VIP-eligible and resale contracts when booking? I'm thinking of the short video with the drop-down on the vacation search screen. As of now, all of the differences between non-VIP retail accounts and all-resale accounts are things that have to be called in (Club Pass, Plus Partners, etc.), so their online booking process could be essentially the same as mine (as an all-resale owner). It would be a pain for them to have to make choices between different types of points every time they book.

So it is possible they are stripping ARP from resale. Unlikely, but possible. More likely it is the extended length of booking for certain options that VIP get that no longer count. They probably are just testing wording.

Yes, I think they will implement buckets for ALL owners, not just VIP. What if the owner added more points - don’t want the entire system to change and then have to explain changes at that point. Think of it as ripping off the resale bandage.

 

[paxsarah]

In particular, I took note of the "Rental points" bucket in the graphic. Given these changes are designed to explicitly discourage rental activity and to target VIP owners that rent - that seems like something that could cause some heartburn if owner's notice that bucket. It also makes me wonder aloud - what is a rental points bucket for? Is that an EH points bucket in essence?

EH - oh, that's possible, considering that my guess is Wyndham will be more strongly pushing people to rent via that avenue moving forward.

What I originally assumed that was is that we're limited to renting extra points from Wyndham (at $12/k) up to our total number of points owned (not counting PIC or bonus points), so I thought that was maybe a tally of our remaining allowed rental allotment from Wyndham. Which if that's what it is probably doesn't need to be that prominent because I hope nobody's spending up to their entire points allotment at $12/k (and if they are, they don't need it justified and codified by being that prominent on the dashboard!).

 

[Ty1on]

So it is possible they are stripping ARP from resale. Unlikely, but possible. More likely it is the extended length of booking for certain options that VIP get that no longer count. They probably are just testing wording.

Yes, I think they will implement buckets for ALL owners, not just VIP. What if the owner added more points - don’t want the entire system to change and then have to explain changes at that point. Think of it as ripping off the resale bandage.

Also, bucket makes a difference for CWA ARP even for non-VIP

 

[55plus]

I think as well this could be the messiest item to implement. Why didn't they just make this effective starting Jan 1st? I know not all have use years that start then but likely majority do. This language is from the website:
"With this enhancement, your account will be updated for the current Use Year and benefits will be adjusted according to whether your reservation is made with VIP Eligible Points or Non-VIP Eligible Points">

My assumption on what this will mean is:
0> Wyn will look at your contracts and create two point buckets (VIP and Non-VIP) that at the start will equal the points from the contracts.
1> Wyn will go through every reservation made this year in your account. To get buckets right I assume they will start Jan 1st and progress from there.
2> Each existing reservation you made, Wyn will determine if if had to be made with VIP eligible or not; i.e. did you get a discount and/or an upgrade, or was it an RARP.
3> Based on decision in number 2 they will subtract the point value for the reservation from the appropriate bucket.
4> Any reservations that were made but have been subsequently cancelled I think they will likely just ignore those (i hope so at least). Would make it much more messy if not.

After their adjustments are made you will end up with a points balance in the 2 buckets. I think it likely the point total of the two buckets after the adjustment could be different than your current point total before the adjustment and if so would be lower in total. Because it could be lower, that is the reason for the complimentary points to be given next year.

The reason I think it could be lower is that the VIP bucket could be exhausted prior to reservations being made that will be considered VIP reservations. If that happens it seems to me they would then assume that reservation should have been made with Non-VIP points and adjust accordingly.

For example, if your VIP bucket has been exhausted, and after the point in time they considered it exhausted,
a new reservation was made that got the discount and/or an upgrade,
then Wyn will assume that reservation needed to be made with Non VIP points
and instead of deducting the value of points used when the reservation was made (say half a 2BD that was upgraded to a 3BD) they will deduct the value of the 3BD unit without a discount from the Non VIP bucket.

Here's an argument. An owner with both VIP and resale points had no choice when making a reservation. VIP benefit reservations were automatic when it comes to GCs, HK, discounts within 60 days. The only option is whether to select an upgrade or not. On other words, the website did not allow an owner to chose between VIP or resale points.

 

[Ty1on]

Here's an argument. An owner with both VIP and resale points had no choice when making a reservation. VIP benefit reservations were automatic when it comes to GCs, HK, discounts within 60 days. The only option is whether to select an upgrade or not. On other words, the website did not allow an owner to chose between VIP or resale points.

It did not, and that's why resales enjoyed VIP benefits prior to this change. With the change, the owner will clearly be able to reserve from a specific points pool with whatever privileges are afforded that pool.

 

[bnoble]

One is in the picture at the top of the page

I'm not sure it makes sense to try to figure much out from the collateral they have up so far. I'm waiting to see what they actually deploy--which will probably come along with some owner education materials.

 

[VacayKat]

Here's an argument. An owner with both VIP and resale points had no choice when making a reservation. VIP benefit reservations were automatic when it comes to GCs, HK, discounts within 60 days. The only option is whether to select an upgrade or not. On other words, the website did not allow an owner to chose between VIP or resale points.

HK and transactions also need to be factored as they reallocate the vacations. Say a person has 500k of both developer and resale and has a use year beginning in July. If they have made reservations with all those points then not only will upgrades need to be removed, but HK and transactions need to be assigned. What if they have reserved and cancelled all of those vacations three or 4 times? Will they owe money to wyndham for the transactions they made that they didn’t have for free?
I think there really is no way to guess what Wyndham might do.

 

[rickandcindy23]

With Wyndham?

Yep.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm not sure it makes sense to try to figure much out from the collateral they have up so far. I'm waiting to see what they actually deploy--which will probably come along with some owner education materials.

I hope they give us some better information. I am sort of freaking out over here. The heat of Colorado July isn't helping one bit, either.

 

[troy12n]

I think as well this could be the messiest item to implement. Why didn't they just make this effective starting Jan 1st? I know not all have use years that start then but likely majority do.

Probably because newer owners are screaming about this (the inventory issue), right now. And Wyndham wants to look like they are doing something. Pushing it off 4 more months only exacerbates the situation, or pushes the can down the road....

This is something they have likely been working on for a long time, and probably moved up implementation because of the outrage on Facebook about resort availability. Whether or not that is an actual issue, or a perceived one, or just a owner education issue, regardless, this gives Wyndham an opportunity to get tough on a segment of owners (the mega renters) who bring no real value to Wyndham, and cause negative PR for the organization. So they seem to be killing 2 or 3 birds with one stone, so to speak...

 

[HitchHiker71]

EH - oh, that's possible, considering that my guess is Wyndham will be more strongly pushing people to rent via that avenue moving forward.

What I originally assumed that was is that we're limited to renting extra points from Wyndham (at $12/k) up to our total number of points owned (not counting PIC or bonus points), so I thought that was maybe a tally of our remaining allowed rental allotment from Wyndham. Which if that's what it is probably doesn't need to be that prominent because I hope nobody's spending up to their entire points allotment at $12/k (and if they are, they don't need it justified and codified by being that prominent on the dashboard!).

Oh that's a great point - I didn't think about the $12/1000 point rental bucket idea. It could just as well be a representation of what you're referring to. I guess only time will tell come mid-August!

 

[Roger830]

Probably because newer owners are screaming about this (the inventory issue), right now. And Wyndham wants to look like they are doing something. Pushing it off 4 more months only exacerbates the situation, or pushes the can down the road....

The basic problem that for most resorts the timeshare model is flawed.

If all resorts are sold out and slow seasons are not booked from the beginning of the year then some members will be stuck with points that can't book anything later in the year.

Couple this with most members rolling over points from last year (I won't mention vip discounts) there are far more points than available days that can be booked.

Even if the vip change was done last year the same situation of more points than availability would still exist now.

 

[VacayKat]

Oh that's a great point - I didn't think about the $12/1000 point rental bucket idea. It could just as well be a representation of what you're referring to. I guess only time will tell come mid-August!

I also had the same thoughts on that as @paxsarah did. Doubt it is about owners renting to regular folks, more about what they rented from wyndham.

 

[VAlegacy]

Will this change be counterproductive for Wyndham? It seems as though by separating, Wyndham is legitamizing resale.
What percentage of Wyndham owners even knows of the resale market?

 

[rickandcindy23]

It's really the unknowns that are troubling.

 

[Eric B]

So, since I have both developer and resale points in my account and my VIPG guest confirmations can't be used with the resale points, do I get 2 non-VIP guest confirmations and 10 VIPG ones?

Since I haven't had to deal with reservation transactions or housekeeping in a while, do those get rounded up or down when it's not an even multiple of 70K & 77K? My guess is that it's down, but figured I'd check since the member's directory isn't any more clear on that than anything else.

 

[am1]

I wonder if someone who only owns developer bought points will see that drop down with resale option? I sure hope so! Maybe it will make more owners realize that there is a better way than buying from Wyndham!!

I am surprised they went with those terms. Best not acknowledge it like that. Then when one asks about re selling their ownership what can the salespeople say?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Will this change be counterproductive for Wyndham? It seems as though by separating, Wyndham is legitamizing resale.
What percentage of Wyndham owners even knows of the resale market?

It's not really a change - but rather a compliance issue coming into full swing. For years all of the documentation for CWP owners has either directly stated that VIP benefits don't apply toward resale points - or any verbiage either way is just plain omitted altogether - leaving it as a perk. The fact that Wyndham is now enforcing the policy directive via the online systems many years after stating the policies in the documentation isn't surprising. Many of us have expected a change like this to come eventually - though admittedly I didn't think it would come this quickly - I figured it would align with the next iteration of changes to the VIP program itself - but that's the game we play when it comes to speculation - it's anyone's guess at the end of the day.

 

[VacayKat]

So, since I have both developer and resale points in my account and my VIPG guest confirmations can't be used with the resale points, do I get 2 non-VIP guest confirmations and 10 VIPG ones?

Since I haven't had to deal with reservation transactions or housekeeping in a while, do those get rounded up or down when it's not an even multiple of 70K & 77K? My guess is that it's down, but figured I'd check since the member's directory isn't any more clear on that than anything else.

I asked about the HK and the transactions. It is one per X, and you don’t get the second one until you hit the next threshold, or X*2.

 

[HitchHiker71]

* Deleted

 

[VacayKat]

That's an excellent question on the number of GCs for the resale bucket for hybrid owners - I'll add this to our list to send to Wyndham for follow up, along with the rounding questions on the HKs and RTs.

From my conversation everything about the accounts will be separate- however the question that should be asked is if you use points from both buckets for the reservation - which bucket does the HK, GC, transaction come from.

edited to add:
well i guess if I read things would be clear. From the website:

• Available housekeeping credits or reservation transactions on your VIP Eligible Points may not be utilized with your Non-VIP Eligible Points.
• Available housekeeping credits or reservation transactions on your Non-VIP Eligible Points may not be utilized with your VIP Eligible Points.

 

[am1]

The big question is how can one go about getting more developer points cheaply? Possibly do a trade in? Do El Cid resale points still count as developer? I had a 1.1 million Grand Desert contract purchased for 6k that came in as a retail. A nice Christmas present from Wyndham. Also had a bunch of unknown co-owners on my account which I could hold reservations in.

At my peak I had 3 Platinum accounts with a 308k retail purchase and PICing 2 3 bedrooms. For a while did not mean much until it was 15 guest confirmations per millions so I got 90 free to start the year. Then it was could only have 10 reservations per resort per night. I had 30 in my accounts at peak times and had to use rent points in other accounts to book reservations 30-50 or so.

 

[am1]

From my conversation everything about the accounts will be separate- however the question that should be asked is if you use points from both buckets for the reservation - which bucket does the HK, GC, transaction come from.

Seems resale. As if resale points are used with VIP points no vip benefits apply.