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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Carolinian

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Yawn...

It has been shown here many times -- with real data, not just individual data points -- that EVs are much less likely to catch fire vs. ICE vehicles. But the media likes to highlight stories like this when they do happen in hopes it will generate clicks from gullible people like you that just want to hang on to their fact-less beliefs that EVs are less safe than ICE vehicles. Since you drooled over this story, I see that the media's plan worked. šŸ¤£

Kurt
Read the article. Local fire officials said just the opposite.
 

Carolinian

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Right, the one that is harder to put out often causes much more damage than the one that doesn't. An example is the recent EV bus fire that took out a line of school buses. Both types of vehicle fires are unlikely but EV fires are not typical. New cars usually do not spontaneously combust. New ev's have exploded before even getting to the dealer.

While I wouldn't call ev's a fire hazard I would call an EV fire an extreme hazard. Comparing 15+ year old ice to new ev's regarding car fires might be a consideration to re-think.

Bill

And, so far, two entire shiploads of new cars have been taken out when one of the EV's onboard spontaneously combusted at sea.
 

easyrider

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And, so far, two entire shiploads of new cars have been taken out when one of the EV's onboard spontaneously combusted at sea.

You really don't see this happening with ice vehicles but it's a not surprising news story with ev's.

Bill
 

HitchHiker71

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emeryjre

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Why Big Oil companies are not begging to start new refinery operations

Chevron lost money on refining in the 4th quarter of 2024

Primarily because demand fell for its products in the 4th quarter

A period of a good economy

Chevron reported fourth-quarter earnings below Wall Street estimates on Friday as weak margins pushed its refining business into a loss for the first time since 2020.

Link to the story at CNBC

 

easyrider

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Hmmmm, facts are your friend:


Your link is interesting in that it shows ice fire on cargo ships led to a loss of cargo while EV fire resulted in loss of all cargo and with some EV fires the entire ship.

Bill
 

jp10558

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What needs more ground clearance? The Rivian R1S/R1T have air suspensions with a lot of flexibility.
Well, I was talking about the picture right above what I quoted - the last "SUV" image that looks like it's got about 4-5" of clearance. I mentioned the Rivian's have the clearance, but there's 2 big problems. 1) They cost ~$70,000. 2) they have air suspension which historically has been both so likely to break and so expensive to fix that there's multiple youtube videos and channels that talk about converting them back to a normal suspension for an "affordable fix" when it dies.
So does the CT
No idea what a CT is - last I heard it was a medical scan.
- you can put them all into entry/exit mode and it slams the vehicle so it's like getting out of a small CUV - or you can leave it at normal height if you like - and you can adjust these settings as they are all configurable. So your entry/exit height can be set to exactly what you want. How on earth is configurability a bad thing with this in mind? Your logic against configurability makes zero sense to me.
Well, my logic is this:
Have you ever walked up to a heavily customized computer of someone elses? Or maybe a DSLR / MILC someone else customized a lot? When I do, I find that I'm flailing a bit for a while cause I literally "don't know how to work it". I.e. someone is using a different window manager, or I don't know what the programs are called (like on a Mac). Or the camera example many people can't pick up my camera and use it cause they have no concept of back button focus, nor do they know where the autofocus button might be.

Now in these cases, it's almost always not a safety concern - you can miss some pictures (or take 100 out of focus ones), you can pull out your phone to look up what stuff is or even just ask the person to show you how to start a program etc.

With a car - if you're thrust into needing to drive it - say you're on a trip and the owner gets too tired, or you rent an unfamiliar car, or whatever - well if basic things like heat, or signals, or ride, or whatever are unclear, soft buttons with no labels, there's no basic intuitive config that matches cause you know, most cars have substantially similar controls - even for like a radio (this has been changing which is my complaint). For a very long time, you could find a radio volume dial, and likely somewhere around there is a tuning dial. There's a dial, level, slide, for cold/heat, fan speed, there's some sort of shifter with at least P, R,N, D on it somewhere. I've seen all sorts of issues and various dangers as they've started "customizing" these things by brand, forget about by individual car. People who only knew cruise control as faster / slower toggle get in one that sets a desired speed, and all of a sudden they're "uncontrollably accelerating to 95" cause that's what they set when they held down the faster toggle. But they had no idea what was happening or why the car was still accelerating when they let go of the toggle. People who meant to go from R to D but hit P instead when it's buttons vs a shifter. People who thought the lane keep assist and auto follow was something very scarily wrong with the car not letting them change lanes or accelerate. Hell, someone who had a manual mode on the shifter and their husband accidentally hit it into that mode with his knee and found suddenly the car was stuck in 4th gear unexpectedly, and the car wouldn't accelerate or decelerate as expected.

Luckily, these all were in situations where there was enough of a buffer of safety and cool heads that no one wrecked and they're funny stories. But consider the Toyota carpet acceleration debacle where people killed themselves or others because the car unexpectedly locked in the throttle. And this was a "simple" physical thing they could "supposedly see" and easily correct by "pulling with their feet" to unjam the pedal or hit the brake.

Now imagine the entire UI is customized via software. There won't even be "a standard" for rental companies to use anymore because it's just all customization. This is why pilots need to be type rated on each plane - because when you're flying (or driving) it can really matter how much the vehicle is muscle memory and an extension of you in "extreme situations". Now maybe someday we'll all be forced into some cloud thing where your face "auto configures" your settings to any car you sit in, but at least across brands and models, I think this is a LONG way off.
This is how you make the product appeal to a broader audience in reality - because each consumer can configure their SDV - fire and forget - for their exact wants and needs. That's the entire logic behind SDVs
This is horrible logic IMHO though - I don't want to find out the car I'm in somehow got the steering or brake and ... go? pedal reversed for giggles of the owner or last renter. Also, I think this appeals to a very specific audience - while I'm ranting about the issues above, I also find that there's another insidious issue. We see it all the time with Microsoft:
Most normal people don't customize electronics. You have to be a gear geek to do so. Most people use the defaults cause they either don't know or don't care to know any better. Even gear geeks probably are left hoping that the defaults are at least sane if they have no existing knowledge or interest in the setting.

But when Microsoft assumes (or pretends to assume in some cases) that people know this is customizable - the defaults aren't tested or thought through much - because "everyone is going to change it to suit them". This is how you get insecure / dangerous defaults - passwords blank or 12345. 90% of the world using IE6 still in 2011.
Sounds like your BIL is a child living in an adult's body - can't solve for these problems until and unless people grow the heck up.
I agree - we say he "identifies as a 12 year old". But I'm also slow to dismiss mental health challenges of people.

I'd love to try an EV just to see, but they're such a high expense if I'm wrong that I'm not going to "take a chance" on one. And rentals don't really seem like a good place to do that either where I don't have a plug in and have 0 idea about how an EV works at all.
 

jp10558

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This is settled tech for Tesla as well - no microphone issues as you describe - even with HVAC on full blast - if you hit the microphone button on the steering wheel - it mutes the audio and quiets the HVAC automatically - similar to what you're describing with your Honda - except it actually works well.
It's like you didn't comprehend my issue - the Honda thing also "works well". It's just not how I want it to work. It's strange how much you're for complete customizability as long as the chosen configuration is the Tesla default. I want to press a button or turn a dial, not talk to my car. It distracts me to even not use decades of muscle memory but to use type 2 thinking to conceptualize what sort of words are needed for the car to do what I want. "Spin Dial X location Left" is now a sub second mental process to cool down temp. Translating that to "Press voice button, wait for everything to get quiet, say Temp down" and now I'm thinking, how do I express 1/6 turn of dial? uhh, maybe I mean 5 degrees? Or do I need to find out what temp it is now - ok look at internal temp display, wait I'm supposed to not look, "Uh car, how hot is it in here", wait " I mean, what is the current temp set to?". Then it's like "Does the car understand any of that?" Usually you had to know the specific keywords and format etc.

On top of all this extra cognitive load because I'm now going back 20 years in my car driving intuition - I'm also thinking "This is going to wake people up with the change in fan speeds, change in radio volume, me talking, change back of volume and fans.

Nothing about this is what I want. What we had - a simple dial I can turn - is what I want. I'd also argue that for use spinning a dial is way more efficient once you learn how. Yes, someone who's never driven before doesn't have as much cognitive load, "translating", but many things IMO do not work well with voice control because IDK skipping the next 6-16 songs in your playlist till you get to one you like, but you don't know specifically which song it is or is going to be, is much easier with pushing a button.
Nope - it's all accessible via Tesla APIs that will never be deprecated.
Never say never. Again, Microsoft is trying to deprecate win32 after 30 years. But non OS vendors deprecate APIs all the time, hell again, look at Microsoft's cloud stuff that changes APIs seemingly every few years. I'll believe it when I see it on APIs never being deprecated.
S3XY buttons have been around for 10 years - they still work today just like they did ten years ago. Again, when you own the entire stack and have complete vertical integration - stuff like this doesn't happen.
Except when Apple wants you to buy a new phone so screws with the speed or battery life with an update...
Yes, configurability is a good thing, because it means every consumer can actually configure their car, robot, etc., to do exactly what they want when they want it. This broadens the utility of the goods in question, by a large margin.
See my other post, but I question how much useful configurability there is without changing hardware. All the "useful" changes I've done with cars - ones I'd very much like to keep doing - are all hardware changes. Adding skid plates, hitches, reverse cameras, front bull bars, lifts, better stereos, etc. I think the people who want to customize cars want to customize cars in ways I doubt Tesla is going to enable (and I'm not sure you can customize BEVs the same way) - got to watch where you screw in something - might make a sensor think you're going to hit something when it's an extra bumper, or might hit a battery pack with a screw. I could be wrong, but IME the max customization the masses do is setting a wallpaper and lock screen, and maybe --- maybe adjusting their list of apps ordering.
That's the beauty of building a real SDV - anything can be changed/improved via a simple OTA update.
Nothing physical. You can't get a hitch with a OTA update. Or an extra screen for GPS. Or a radar / laser detector / jammer. Do I want to change my gauges? My radio controls?
Your vehicle actually gets better over time.
Likely the UI gets slower over time cause the new versions always need more processing power, and I think even Apple drops iPhones after 6 or so years, Android stops after a couple years. Maybe Tesla doesn't do this, but I recall lots of complaints about FSD not even being possible in many earlier models that were sold with it being an OTA update now saying it needs different or additional hardware or processing power or something. So .... color me skeptical.
What is technically illegal? FSD? So your theory is that the NHTSA is allowing something illegal on public roads? I doubt it for my part. NHTSA approved FSD in point of fact.
Me allocating FSD the entire control and responsibility for driving. I can't take a nap or play a video game while it drives like I can if another person drives. And if I tried I believe cops would tell me it was illegal. Till that can happen, I actually think most any of these aids are actually dangerous because they train you to trust it to drive for you (to some extent) till it can't - and you're expected to be able to take over immediately. But humans don't work that way.

I want FSD that's the equivalent legally (and preferably better technically) of me having another human drive me around. That's the "take my money" game changer.
 
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