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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

easyrider

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Though maybe in 10 years I won't be driving to timeshares all the time anymore who knows.

Maybe five years ago a friend of mines dad passed away. The dad had a 2011 Lincoln Town Car with under 40,000 miles on it. It was a beautiful car but I was on my way to Maui and didn't ask to buy it. It sold before we returned.

I thought on this every now and then until one day another person we know said his dad was going to sell their Lincoln. The dad bought it new and they used it mostly for date nights while his wife was alive. He was also in his 80's and typically drove his old pick up every where but had purchased a new 2022 Mustang Mach 1 and wanted more room in the garage so the Lincoln had to go.

I went over to buy it and it was immaculate. It's a Towncar Continental Edition. He pretty much gave it away. This is now our travel vehicle. We use it to drive to timeshares for the most part. I did have a new entertainment system and American Racing Wheels with spinners installed. It looks pretty good for an old timers car as my kids call it. It drives like a dream.

Mine looks like this one except I have the three spoke spinner on the hub.

Bill

 

easyrider

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So when Tesla releases a new vehicle in two months with a MSRP under 30k, what are you going to say then?

Probably something like it's kind of small compared to our Expedition, Honda and Lincoln, lol. Maybe even something like that car looks like it has fish lips instead of a bumper, lol. Or that Cyber Truck looks familiar, lol

Bill

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1gbz76m
 

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You are a candidate for the new "Scout" line of EV's
I have not done a deep dive into the models
But the buzz is it does not feel like a techno EV
Scout is VW owned - and will most likely use Rivian tech - since VW has given up on building their own software stack after failing to do so over the past two years - so they are licensing Rivian software and motors. Scout vehicles will therefore almost assuredly use Rivian software and motors when they start producing vehicles in 2027. Go drive both - Rivian and Scout - whenever that time comes - and pick whichever you like best at that time. I'm sure we'll have several other entrants by 2027 as well - likely all using Tesla FSD licensed tech for autonomous driving.
 

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Probably something like it's kind of small compared to our Expedition, Honda and Lincoln, lol. Maybe even something like that car looks like it has fish lips instead of a bumper, lol. Or that Cyber Truck looks familiar, lol

Bill

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1gbz76m
Let's see if your subjective opinion about the CT measures up to the real world numbers: https://x.com/i/grok/share/2aAi46WG0Isn8scoX4zoaDlZN

1738266144277.png


Hmmm. So the CT was the 5th best selling EV in 2024 - outselling the F150L - and it was just introduced and was till ramping up in 2024 for production...yes it outsold the F150L which has been on sale for three years now?

And where's the fish lips again? I'm not seeing them anywhere LOL. One man's trash...

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1738265546260.png


1738265590615.png
 
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jp10558

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Tesla is in negotiations to license FSD with several major legacy automakers. So the reality is that, over the next 5-10 years - almost every automaker will start using FSD - because no one else is remotely close to autonomous driving. This will go the same way NACS/SC access went - Ford signed first - then all the other dominos fell - and almost every other legacy automaker, as well as EV only automakers like Lucid and Rivian, have switched or are switching to NACS connectors - and can now use the Tesla SC network. FSD will go down this same route. Once autonomous driving comes to market starting later this year and on into 2026 - any automaker who doesn't go down this path - will be dead. Game over, dead man walking. Just a matter of how long they can survive at that point. This is a sea change - much like going from horses to cars - when the FSD tech can drive 20 times safer than any human - it'll become mandatory eventually - humans will no longer drive. Yes, I realize this sounds like pie in the sky - but it's closer than almost anyone realizes, and once it goes mainstream - game over.

For example, every Tesla drives itself off the factory floor after being assembled - no human in the vehicle - as soon as its "born" it self-drives to the parking lot for shipping to sales centers. This is happening every day, all day, today:
I want on demand FSD - I've wanted it for like 15 years. I'm on board with that, just not forced cause I want to be able to drive off road too. I don't want artificial invisible "walls" like in video games.

It's not a matter of everyone thinks. For any SDV - in order to make everything OTA software upgradable - this is the best approach.
I'd like to see working computer remote upgradable be reliable before I'm worrying about if my car is going to no longer have the wipers work this week cause of a bug and it'll be fixed in some future update.
Everything, and I mean everything, is voice controlled
This is horrible. No really. I don't want it relying on my talking. Because many times people are sleeping in the car while someone is driving, and I don't want to wake them up talking at the car. I just want to dial the heat or turn on the defogger. When I'm driving, I don't want to go into the talk to it brainspace - it takes longer and more cognitive load than just turning a dial. I've tried with my Subarus, and with the Honda too. It's not great. Oh, and the more other noise, like music, like the defogger running, whatever the less the car understands me at all. Maybe Tesla has this solved, but the best Honda does is turn down the music and environmental controls to try and better hear you - which again is now changing more things to disturb passengers. I'm not sure how much of an edge case this is - driving with others trying to sleep, but it's making things that used to be easy hard.

Now, FSD if working will let me muck about with the screen, but it still doesn't really instill confidence in having one very large expensive screen that if it dies the car dies. I'm already ranting at Honda about electronic nannies that I like the idea of but they just false positive way too much and so cause me issues. I just had to back my Piliot up to my door, run an extension cord and use a hair dryer to melt the ice around the hatch to get it to let me close the hatch at 7PM in the cold. The hatch physically closed just fine, but the car disagreed and would re-open it, or after we pushed it closed manually would refuse to latch the hatch and would keep the lights on and beep all the time when moving. I want an easy "do what I tell you" override TBH.
You can also configure "buttons" on the screen as needed, or you can purchase third party physical buttons - often called the S3XY buttons - that are fully configurable and can do whatever you want them to do.
Great, I need to buy a third party product to hopefully get functionality that ought to be built in. Not a sales pitch. I've been here with computing, yes you can plug in a third party box but guess what, now you never know if it's going to work, if it's going to keep working, and it won't be covered by warranty when a software update breaks your extra stuff.
You can also configure the buttons/scroll wheels on the steering wheel to do whatever you want them to do for often used features - want a scroll wheel to move the temp up or down? Change it to do so, want that scroll wheel to control wipers? Change it to do so. It's all configurable however the owner wants based upon their personal preferences.
Oh god. So now it'll be even more config when you get in a new car, or more likely, randomly not knowing how to work the darn thing. Tesla already did the insane steering wheel buttons for turn signals. NO THANK YOU.

I'm sorry but it sounds like we're still firmly in the USB-C dock stage of all this (or Win95 plug and pray). I want the UI to stay the same till the actual operation changes. When it's legal to FSD everywhere and it works reliably on all the roads out in the country and highways so I don't have to drive or take on liability for something the car does without my input, then I'm OK with getting a living room and no controls. These transition ideas all suck. It's just endless frustration to the user who presumably already know how to drive - making them less safe drivers waiting for them to be allowed by regulations to not drive, but the UI assumes they're not driving, except it's technically illegial.
 

jp10558

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Let's see if your subjective opinion about the CT measures to the real world numbers: https://x.com/i/grok/share/2aAi46WG0Isn8scoX4zoaDlZN

View attachment 105323

Hmmm. So the CT was the 5th best selling EV in 2024 - outselling the F150L - and it was just introduced and was till ramping up in 2024 for production...yes it outsold the F150L which has been on sale for three years now?

And where's the fish lips again? I'm not seeing them anywhere LOL. One man's trash...

View attachment 105319

View attachment 105320

View attachment 105321

View attachment 105322
Needs more ground clearance. I hated going half an inch down to the Honda from the Outback. Rivian at least has that, though I can't afford their pricing and don't trust the reliability yet (and size is probably small).

I really think the main issue for us is we just bought new cars in the cycle but also out here in the country you're usually driving in a way ICE vehicles like - 20+ miles at highway speeds with little to no stop and go traffic. Then there's that the vast majority of our driving is on trips now - with WFH and my mom's retirement, the only person driving daily is my BIL who's bored. He could use a BEV except he can't keep gas in the vehicle or his phone charged so it probably would be dead too often when he or anyone else wanted to use it. He "solves this problem" by having a gas can here so he can get to the pump 5 miles away and top off in 5 minutes when he's forced to cause otherwise the truck is stopping. The fun of ADHD as I understand it.

Anyway, if I ever get forced to go back in daily, I might look into a BEV, but I still would balance against a good priced used Impreza or other small one person good AWD vehicle.
 

easyrider

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Let's see if your subjective opinion about the CT measures to the real world numbers: https://x.com/i/grok/share/2aAi46WG0Isn8scoX4zoaDlZN

View attachment 105323

Hmmm. So the CT was the 5th best selling EV in 2024 - outselling the F150L - and it was just introduced and was till ramping up in 2024 for production...yes it outsold the F150L which has been on sale for three years now?

And where's the fish lips again? I'm not seeing them anywhere LOL. One man's trash...

View attachment 105319

View attachment 105320

View attachment 105321

View attachment 105322

You know I'm just bustin balls. I really don't care what anyone drives or the reason they drive it. One thing that's certain is it's hard for a regular Joe to sell a used Tesla without taking a loss. The same can be said for many vehicles. It's kind of funny that some Teslas look fishy. Maybe the designer is a scuba diver.

Bill

1738267181900.png
 

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Needs more ground clearance. I hated going half an inch down to the Honda from the Outback. Rivian at least has that, though I can't afford their pricing and don't trust the reliability yet (and size is probably small).
What needs more ground clearance? The Rivian R1S/R1T have air suspensions with a lot of flexibility. So does the CT - you can put them all into entry/exit mode and it slams the vehicle so it's like getting out of a small CUV - or you can leave it at normal height if you like - and you can adjust these settings as they are all configurable. So your entry/exit height can be set to exactly what you want. How on earth is configurability a bad thing with this in mind? Your logic against configurability makes zero sense to me. This is how you make the product appeal to a broader audience in reality - because each consumer can configure their SDV - fire and forget - for their exact wants and needs. That's the entire logic behind SDVs vs old outdated ICE vehicles where the human has to adapt to the vehicle by design within certain parameters.
I really think the main issue for us is we just bought new cars in the cycle but also out here in the country you're usually driving in a way ICE vehicles like - 20+ miles at highway speeds with little to no stop and go traffic. Then there's that the vast majority of our driving is on trips now - with WFH and my mom's retirement, the only person driving daily is my BIL who's bored. He could use a BEV except he can't keep gas in the vehicle or his phone charged so it probably would be dead too often when he or anyone else wanted to use it. He "solves this problem" by having a gas can here so he can get to the pump 5 miles away and top off in 5 minutes when he's forced to cause otherwise the truck is stopping. The fun of ADHD as I understand it.
Sounds like your BIL is a child living in an adult's body - can't solve for these problems until and unless people grow the heck up. My wife has ADHD diagnosed, and she has zero issues plugging in her MY whenever she parks in our garage for the night.
Anyway, if I ever get forced to go back in daily, I might look into a BEV, but I still would balance against a good priced used Impreza or other small one person good AWD vehicle.
Go drive the new Model Y - I think you'll walk away with a different impression after doing so. Or wait for the new/smaller Tesla EV that's coming out in a few months - that may very well be very similar to an Impreza in size and capability and will always be AWD for the dual motor variant.
 
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HitchHiker71

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I want on demand FSD - I've wanted it for like 15 years. I'm on board with that, just not forced cause I want to be able to drive off road too. I don't want artificial invisible "walls" like in video games.
Depends on what you mean by on demand. If you mean you can turn it on and off and choose whether you want to drive or if the vehicle drives itself - this is how FSD has always worked - and it's how it will work for any consumer owned vehicle for the foreseeable future.
I'd like to see working computer remote upgradable be reliable before I'm worrying about if my car is going to no longer have the wipers work this week cause of a bug and it'll be fixed in some future update.
It's been reliable for 10 years for Tesla owners. This is settled technology for Tesla, no bones about it. Tesla is, by far, the SDV leader, with the closest competitors still years behind in maturity and capability.
This is horrible. No really. I don't want it relying on my talking. Because many times people are sleeping in the car while someone is driving, and I don't want to wake them up talking at the car. I just want to dial the heat or turn on the defogger. When I'm driving, I don't want to go into the talk to it brainspace - it takes longer and more cognitive load than just turning a dial. I've tried with my Subarus, and with the Honda too. It's not great. Oh, and the more other noise, like music, like the defogger running, whatever the less the car understands me at all. Maybe Tesla has this solved, but the best Honda does is turn down the music and environmental controls to try and better hear you - which again is now changing more things to disturb passengers. I'm not sure how much of an edge case this is - driving with others trying to sleep, but it's making things that used to be easy hard.
This is settled tech for Tesla as well - no microphone issues as you describe - even with HVAC on full blast - if you hit the microphone button on the steering wheel - it mutes the audio and quiets the HVAC automatically - similar to what you're describing with your Honda - except it actually works well. Tesla doesn't do things half assed - they do things right and then improve from there based on user feedback on a frequent basis via OTA updates 1-2 times a month. Tesla is literally the only SDV maker where your car actually gets better as it ages. Like I said - you can build buttons on the screen for dedicated functions if needed.
Now, FSD if working will let me muck about with the screen, but it still doesn't really instill confidence in having one very large expensive screen that if it dies the car dies. I'm already ranting at Honda about electronic nannies that I like the idea of but they just false positive way too much and so cause me issues. I just had to back my Piliot up to my door, run an extension cord and use a hair dryer to melt the ice around the hatch to get it to let me close the hatch at 7PM in the cold. The hatch physically closed just fine, but the car disagreed and would re-open it, or after we pushed it closed manually would refuse to latch the hatch and would keep the lights on and beep all the time when moving. I want an easy "do what I tell you" override TBH.
Your upset with Honda because the electronics aren't built by Honda, owned by Honda, nor is the software - they have to work with third party vendors/suppliers - some 150 different ones on average - that all use different software/firmware for their particular parts. Tesla is a unified ecosystem - they control the entire software stack - every component in the car is software upgradable - complete vertical integration. No other manufacturer except for BYD in China does this. No one. Not even close. Legacy manufacturers are 10-15 years behind Tesla at best. I've literally never experienced an issue closing our Tesla MY hatch - I can do it manually or I can have the car do it via a button or via the app (or via the screen in the vehicle). Not saying it's not possible, just that I've never experienced it firsthand - I'm sure there are edge cases where what you describe could happen though.
Great, I need to buy a third party product to hopefully get functionality that ought to be built in. Not a sales pitch. I've been here with computing, yes you can plug in a third party box but guess what, now you never know if it's going to work, if it's going to keep working, and it won't be covered by warranty when a software update breaks your extra stuff.
Nope - it's all accessible via Tesla APIs that will never be deprecated. S3XY buttons have been around for 10 years - they still work today just like they did ten years ago. Again, when you own the entire stack and have complete vertical integration - stuff like this doesn't happen. What you are describing happens due to overuse of third party parts that each have their own ecosystems and requirements - and the legacy manufacturers have no control when the third party update breaks something. This is one of many areas where Tesla is very different - Tesla is a software, AI and robotics company, that happens to build cars, robots, and energy packs to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy solutions worldwide. 5 years from now, Tesla will be known more for Optimus than cars - those of us who track Tesla closely - have known this for years. The rest of the world doesn't know what's coming.
Oh god. So now it'll be even more config when you get in a new car, or more likely, randomly not knowing how to work the darn thing. Tesla already did the insane steering wheel buttons for turn signals. NO THANK YOU.
Yes, configurability is a good thing, because it means every consumer can actually configure their car, robot, etc., to do exactly what they want when they want it. This broadens the utility of the goods in question, by a large margin. It's worth noting that the newly refreshed Model Y that was just released last week, doesn't have turn signal buttons - it still has a stalk - because that's what consumers wanted for the best selling vehicle on earth. Tesla listens to their customers. This will also likely be the case for the new cheaper model coming to market in a few months.
I'm sorry but it sounds like we're still firmly in the USB-C dock stage of all this (or Win95 plug and pray). I want the UI to stay the same till the actual operation changes. When it's legal to FSD everywhere and it works reliably on all the roads out in the country and highways so I don't have to drive or take on liability for something the car does without my input, then I'm OK with getting a living room and no controls. These transition ideas all suck. It's just endless frustration to the user who presumably already know how to drive - making them less safe drivers waiting for them to be allowed by regulations to not drive, but the UI assumes they're not driving, except it's technically illegial.
That's the beauty of building a real SDV - anything can be changed/improved via a simple OTA update. Your vehicle actually gets better over time. Show me another vehicle that does this. Our MY already drives everywhere and works reliably on all roads whether rural, suburban, highway, even in parking lots when choosing a parking space, and here's the thing, it will only get better every month, from here on out. Again, what other vehicle can do this? What is technically illegal? FSD? So your theory is that the NHTSA is allowing something illegal on public roads? I doubt it for my part. NHTSA approved FSD in point of fact.
 

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You know I'm just bustin balls. I really don't care what anyone drives or the reason they drive it. One thing that's certain is it's hard for a regular Joe to sell a used Tesla without taking a loss. The same can be said for many vehicles. It's kind of funny that some Teslas look fishy. Maybe the designer is a scuba diver.

Bill


Elon is busy with other important things ;)

elon.jpg



tesla.jpg


China.jpg
 
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youppi

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The USA's refineries are set up to refine a heavy crude oil. North America is full of light crude oil. We import heavy crude oil and export light crude oil instead of building a light crude oil refinery. This has never made any sense to me.

Bill
Probably because they make more money like that.
The USA imports a lot of heavy crude from Canada (an average of 4.4 million barrels per day in 2023).
The USA produced an average of 12.9 million barrels of crude oil per day in 2023.
The barrel of the Western Canadian Select (WCS) is cheaper than the barrel of the West Texas Intermediate (WTI).
See https://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts/
 

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No manufacturer can deploy any ADAS system without NHTSA approval. Tesla is among several NHTSA approved L2 ADAS systems:


This report has data showing NHTSA ADAS crash data - one slide of which displays the approved systems along with the number of recorded crashes:



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Does this mean people can drive a Tesla in FSD mode without monitoring the system and being ready to intervene if needed??
 
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