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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

easyrider

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Let's also clearly state that oil and gas pricing is set by the global marketplace, and not anywhere else

It's totally manipulated. One thing that can lower prices is using resources from North America only, build refineries and add pipelines. North America could be energy independent.

I just heard that EV chargers that were planned in the Inflation Reduction Act are no longer happening. I have a feeling that EV charging mandates for new commercial construction & remodeling will be next.

Bill
 

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VERY cold temperatures??? No regular sunshine - especially winter when we have nuclear grey days? 4-wheel drive to get in and out of snow? The electric would never work where we live. Disposal of batteries another issue. Charging stations are far and few between up here. As dad said...."that is why we do not all drive black Fords". Choice...Freedom to choose...
 

easyrider

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My bet is a new trade war will start this month with China. The two reasons I think this is #45 is now #47 and will continue what #45 started regarding the previous trade war with China and the Year of the Snake has begun. The Year of the Snake coincides with promises of massive tariffs on Chinese products which will keep the USD strong in relation to Asian currencies.

As far as EV production goes, when regulations on ice disappear in the USA so will the requirements to build ev's.

Bill
 

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It's totally manipulated. One thing that can lower prices is using resources from North America only, build refineries and add pipelines. North America could be energy independent.
How exactly is an open market good manipulated? How exactly do you propose to have privately owned and/or publicly owned companies build refineries and add pipelines and then only use their oil supply at discounted prices within North America without converting said companies to state owned oil companies? That's the only way other countries provide discounted gas prices to their citizens today. ALL oil companies sell their raw and/or refined products at market prices here in the US in comparison. The entire concept of "energy independence" in an open market economy doesn't really make sense. ALL US companies sell their products to the highest bidder today effectively. Those companies don't care if that product is put on a ship to go to other countries, or shipped locally to US ports and/or via train or truck. They could care less - it goes to whomever will pay them the most - or via existing contractual agreements in place. Let's consult AI on this topic as follows: https://x.com/i/grok/share/9iK6yrqghv9yipCCu8huvWI8E

1738179885889.png


So per above, 31-40% of all US oil suppliers export their petroleum products outside of the US to other countries - because that's where they get the best price for their goods. That number rises to 50% if we include refined products on average. Again, are you embracing state owned/run oil companies? Your logic makes no sense to me.
I just heard that EV chargers that were planned in the Inflation Reduction Act are no longer happening. I have a feeling that EV charging mandates for new commercial construction & remodeling will be next.

Bill

LOL - the DOT literally built like 10 EV stations to date with the tens of billions they were allocated (failure) - the vast majority of EV charging stations have been, are, and will be built by private companies - just like gas stations were/are/will be. This will have almost zero impact on EV adoption moving forward IMHO. Tesla continues to rapidly expand it's SC network for example, as are many other commercial entities leading the way for EV charging stations.
 

HitchHiker71

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VERY cold temperatures??? No regular sunshine - especially winter when we have nuclear grey days? 4-wheel drive to get in and out of snow? The electric would never work where we live. Disposal of batteries another issue. Charging stations are far and few between up here. As dad said...."that is why we do not all drive black Fords". Choice...Freedom to choose...
There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of EV owners up in Canada - farther north than you - who do just fine with EVs. Almost all EVs are AWD by default - so snow isn't a problem especially with snow tires. Plenty of real world folks in worse conditions than where you live use EVs every day without any issues. Battery packs are 95% recyclable, unlike the zero percent of gas burned into the atmosphere every day. Tesla recycled 500+ metric tons per month of battery packs in Q4 2024 alone at Gigafactory Nevada - and it's only going up over time: https://x.com/i/grok/share/7uGzVoIto5lKj1lg3n6CJIbf2

1738180598309.png


That said, I agree 100% it's all about consumer choice. But the same old tired internet talking points that have been thoroughly debunked aren't cutting it any longer. ;)
 

easyrider

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The entire concept of "energy independence" in an open market economy doesn't really make sense. ALL US companies sell their products to the highest bidder today effectively

What you are missing is the "tariffs" that mean oil really isn't in as open a market as you might think.

Oil procured from the USA is more than the USA refineries can handle because of environmental concerns making it impossible for old refineries to continue and new refineries to be built. The USA produces enough oil to be oil dependent but because of the lack of refineries has to about export about 40% of the oil produced . Then the USA has to import oil and refined oil products because of the lack of refineries in the USA. #46 created a war on oil in the USA ,but oddly no where else, which costed the USA billions.

No, the companies don't "effectively sell oil to the highest bidder" because the USA is charged a higher tariff to export its oil than to import it. This is ridiculous as all the USA needs is more refineries and there would be no need to import oil.

Bill
 

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VERY cold temperatures??? No regular sunshine - especially winter when we have nuclear grey days? 4-wheel drive to get in and out of snow? The electric would never work where we live. Disposal of batteries another issue. Charging stations are far and few between up here. As dad said...."that is why we do not all drive black Fords". Choice...Freedom to choose...
Besides the excellent points @HitchHiker71 made, I don't think you understand the use models of EVs very well.

First off, the vast majority of people who own EVs charge at home, so there is much less reliance on EV charging stations than you think. Second, it looks like the EV charging stations in your neck of the woods are not "far and few between" -- just look at this map that took all of 5 seconds to bring up:

1738187837922.png


I'm all for freedom of choice as well for all things in our lives, but I can't stand people who spread misinformation based on fear, politics, ignorance, etc. Put out the FACTS and let people decide for themselves.

Kurt
 

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What you are missing is the "tariffs" that mean oil really isn't in as open a market as you might think.

Oil procured from the USA is more than the USA refineries can handle because of environmental concerns making it impossible for old refineries to continue and new refineries to be built. The USA produces enough oil to be oil dependent but because of the lack of refineries has to about export about 40% of the oil produced . Then the USA has to import oil and refined oil products because of the lack of refineries in the USA. #46 created a war on oil in the USA ,but oddly no where else, which costed the USA billions.

No, the companies don't "effectively sell oil to the highest bidder" because the USA is charged a higher tariff to export its oil than to import it. This is ridiculous as all the USA needs is more refineries and there would be no need to import oil.

Bill

US is the largest exporter of refined petroleum products in the world

Because of shipping costs, variations in composition of the crude oil pumped, and other factors, oil and refined products are traded among all of the countries of the world

Sometimes it is cheaper to import diesel fuel into the east coast than ship it from Texas

Because somebody makes is sound simple and easily solved, doesn't make it true

Especially if the somebody has bankrupted every company he ever ran

 

easyrider

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US is the largest exporter of refined petroleum products in the world

Because of shipping costs, variations in composition of the crude oil pumped, and other factors, oil and refined products are traded among all of the countries of the world

Sometimes it is cheaper to import diesel fuel into the east coast than ship it from Texas

Because somebody makes is sound simple and easily solved, doesn't make it true

Especially if the somebody has bankrupted every company he ever ran


Would you agree that if the USA had enough refineries to process all of the oil produced in the USA ,the cost of fuel would decrease substantially and the USA would be the largest exporter of refined oil products ? About 40% of the crude oil produced in the USA is exported. Why isn't this refined ? It's because there aren't enough refineries.

Bill
 
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emeryjre

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Would you agree that if the USA had enough refineries to process all of the oil produced in the USA ,the cost of fuel would decrease substantially and the USA would be the largest exporter of refined oil products ? About 40% of the crude oil produced in the USA is exported. Why isn't this refined ? It's because there aren't enough refineries.

Bill
The facts say we can refine about 18.5 MBPD

The US is pumping about 13MBPD

So we can refine more than we produce

No company will produce so much oil it becomes unprofitable

No company will refine so much product it becomes unprofitable

Nation States will

Saudi Arabia drove the price of oil and gas below zero at the wholesale level for a short period of time during the pandemic

It forced producers into Bankruptcy and forced production to slow for a period of time

I did well trading oil during the recovery phase of oil production using @CL futures contracts
 

easyrider

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The facts say we can refine about 18.5 MBPD

The US is pumping about 13MBPD

So we can refine more than we produce

No company will produce so much oil it becomes unprofitable

No company will refine so much product it becomes unprofitable

Nation States will

Saudi Arabia drove the price of oil and gas below zero at the wholesale level for a short period of time during the pandemic

It forced producers into Bankruptcy and forced production to slow for a period of time

I did well trading oil during the recovery phase of oil production using @CL futures contracts

The USA's refineries are set up to refine a heavy crude oil. North America is full of light crude oil. We import heavy crude oil and export light crude oil instead of building a light crude oil refinery. This has never made any sense to me.

Bill
 

emeryjre

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I don't mean to hijack the thread
If you want an overview of the oil industry and stay up to date on current events in the petroleum markets
This is a great source
Generally the site provides a factual summation of events in the world of petroleum and its refined byproducts


If you want the latest in the energy world
Try "Landman" on CBS/Paramount Plus
A look at the oil patches of Texas with a splash of sex, drugs, country music
Features Billy Bob Thornton preaching about the glory of the oil industry
Written and produced by Taylor Sheridan of Yellowstone, 1883, 1923, et al fame
Today's world with no EV's within a hundred miles
 

easyrider

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Try "Landman" on CBS/Paramount Plus

We started watching this and it's really hard to stop. That part of Texas looks flat as a pancake.

Getting back to the ev lies there are plenty. The one thing that will kill ev's is not many want to learn ev's the hard way.

Bill
 

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One More Time
EV's are set up for commutes in major urban areas
It is their primary market
Charge at home is their primary recharging method
The high-end EV Lucids, Porsches, MB, Audi's, Lexus are driven by people that have the money to spend on transportation and look cool while doing it

Not designed for Rural America
If you don't live in a major urban market
You have no idea of their utility as transport
 

easyrider

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EV's are set up for commutes in major urban areas
It is their primary market

Mostly in the Goldilocks zones where it isn't too hot, too cold, but just right. There really isn't a cool looking EV, imo. Maybe the Lightning. I really haven't seen too many in real life. We live in a SUV and Truck dominate area. Lots of Toyotas and Hondas too.

Tesla stock is heading down. It's probably because everyone likes these ev's so much, lol.


Bill
 

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Stock closed at 405.25 at 8:00 EST
The end of after hours trading
Up $16.15 from the 4:00 EST regular market close

Missing deliveries for a quarter does not mean you sold less cars than a year ago
Just means you missed the estimate of what you were going to deliver
 
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