You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[easyrider]

Is it the actual vehicle weight or is it the GVWR? I was under the impression it’s the latter - which includes maximum vehicle payload capacity, not the actual vehicle weight itself.


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Yup, it's gvwr which is often tagged on the vehicle door jam. I look at the lists provided by websites that include most of the vehicles that do qualify.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

Good to know! A family member just bought one and that's what got me thinking about buying one. We will compare the two for pricing/financing terms for sure.

FWIW we tend to avoid American brands for reliability reasons (I had a Chevy Tahoe in the 1990s that died (engine & trans) at 90k miles - so bad taste.) But that may have changed. Our 2004 Suburban has been going strong at 150k miles but is showing issues. American trucks are still the best for towing.

Do not want a Tesla.

Want a stable/established brand for warranty because we tend to hold onto our cars.

Considering the Audi EV and the Volvo 40 EV but those are higher priced. I would like something more status oriented because I still meet clients for work on occasion. But may retire in a few years.

Honda has very easy finance pricing so owning for 3 years does not commit us which I also like. This auto would replace our BMW 325i wagon which we have had for years (and loved). So something not too big and not too small.

This car is not a must have but we know the BMW ICE car is reaching the point of unreliability and will fail in the next few years.

For my part, if Tesla is out of the running, I'd only consider an EV that is eligible for the $7500 tax credit - because I'm notoriously frugal. That pretty much limits me to either the GM Blazer/Equinox EVs (or the higher end Cadillac variants of these same EVs), or the VW ID.4 variants, or the Acura/Honda versions of the GM EVs. I'm not fond enough of any of them to consider a purchase though, but that's me. If I were to step down to 50% of the tax credit, then I'd consider the Audi Q5 PHEVs.

If I were to forgo the federal tax credit requirement, then I'd likely give consideration to EVs from Audi, BMW, Volvo, Polestar, Hyundia/Kia. Lastly, if you're willing to go higher on the price scale, consider the Rivian R1S. The R1S standard can be had for under $80k and qualifies for a $3750 partial federal tax credit, plus any applicable state tax incentives. Too rich for my blood personally. If you like the R1S itself, it's easy to find lightly used R1S models as well, at lower price points into the $50s/60s.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FYI...We plan to lease since the technology is evolving and may want a different car in a few years. A lease will also enable foreign car purchases.

 

[easyrider]

The Buick Wildcat concept EV. This is kind of what Tesla was but isn't anymore. It's definitely not a boring looking car, imo.

Bill

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Slick car. Looks like the batmobile!

 

[Ken555]

Slick car. Looks like the batmobile!

Most concept vehicles look fabulous. Sadly, few of them ever get produced.

 

[Bucky]

Some new PHEVs are still eligible for tax credits though you would have to check on the fuel economy.gov site to be sure: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

I don’t see any Lexus or Toyota models on the list though.


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Interesting how Lexus is handling it.

The 2024 NX450h+ has $9500 lease cash available on it. The 2025 has $7500. But, only when leasing a new NX.
the 2025 RX450h+ has the $7500 lease cash available.

So there is obviously a transferable lease credit available on those two models.

 

[HitchHiker71]

FYI...We plan to lease since the technology is evolving and may want a different car in a few years. A lease will also enable foreign car purchases.

Leasing introduces up to $7500 in lease credits that the manufacturer can choose whether to pass along to the consumer or keep for themselves - or a portion thereof. It's a shame Tesla isn't in the mix for you, as the Model Y has some killer lease deals with zero down between now and year end.

EDIT: Nevermind on the Tesla leasing incentive - looks like it expired after 12/15/2024 unfortunately.

 

[emeryjre]

Lexus has been making some incredible deals on their EV and PHEV vehicles.
Way beyond tax credits
This is according to two people I talked with over the last 10 days about their recent acquisition of Lexus vehicles
One person claims he saved 30K from MSRP
The other person claims 28K less than MSRP
One had started out by looking for a used vehicle for his daughter
He gave his daughter his old vehicle and bought the new one for himself
The other was turning in his leased Lexus and was going to purchase another brand to lower his monthly payments
Both are sophisticated buyers and fully understand how car buying works

 

[easyrider]

Lexus has been making some incredible deals on their EV and PHEV vehicles.
Way beyond tax credits
This is according to two people I talked with over the last 10 days about their recent acquisition of Lexus vehicles
One person claims he saved 30K from MSRP
The other person claims 28K less than MSRP
One had started out by looking for a used vehicle for his daughter
He gave his daughter his old vehicle and bought the new one for himself
The other was turning in his leased Lexus and was going to purchase another brand to lower his monthly payments
Both are sophisticated buyers and fully understand how car buying works

I'm not willing to spend much more than $40,000 on a vehicle or to finance anything. I just don't find any value in buying new when buying a reliable vehicle.

Bill

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I also don't want to spend more than $40k but will probably lease or buy used coming off a lease. This is why I still drive my BMW because I still cannot get over how prices have risen. The great news about my BMW is that it is in great shape and unless you follow BMW closely, the body style has not changed much over the years so it looks like it is only a few years old.

 

[Carolinian]

Honda and Nissan plot mega-merger to survive electric car slowdown

Concerns over future of UK-based jobs as Japanese carmakers enter discussions over potential deal

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[emeryjre]

Story From Above
Does not require sign up
From CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/17/japans-honda-and-nissan-to-reportedly-begin-merger-talks.html

 

[Elan]

Lexus has been making some incredible deals on their EV and PHEV vehicles.
Way beyond tax credits
This is according to two people I talked with over the last 10 days about their recent acquisition of Lexus vehicles
One person claims he saved 30K from MSRP
The other person claims 28K less than MSRP
One had started out by looking for a used vehicle for his daughter
He gave his daughter his old vehicle and bought the new one for himself
The other was turning in his leased Lexus and was going to purchase another brand to lower his monthly payments
Both are sophisticated buyers and fully understand how car buying works

What models?

 

[emeryjre]

What models?

The SUV's
I am not a Lexus follower
Never owned one
Never shopped for one
They were 2024 models
One was an EV
The other was a PHEV
The EV only had a range of around 250 miles. So certainly not a long range model
Probably 2 WD since 4WD is not a big deal in So Cal
Not sure what dealer either

 

[Bucky]

I also don't want to spend more than $40k but will probably lease or buy used coming off a lease. This is why I still drive my BMW because I still cannot get over how prices have risen. The great news about my BMW is that it is in great shape and unless you follow BMW closely, the body style has not changed much over the years so it looks like it is only a few years old.

BMW dealers are negotiating on everything right now. Deals with up to 10-12% off MSRP are not that uncommon on the new X3 and that doesn’t even include the $3K military rebate on the X3 and $5K on an X5. Everybody is negotiating on almost every vehicle on their lots or coming in. End of month is always a great time to buy and end of year is even a better time.

 

[PigsDad]

End of month is always a great time to but and end of year is even a better time.

Agree. A few years back I bought my <German sports car> at an unheard of 17% off MSRP on Dec 30th, whereas the most they were being discounted at the time was in the range of 5-8%.

But my best "deal" I made was in college on the last day in November. Trading in a car for a newer used car on the lot (so lots of negotiation room). Their price on the car was $8999, and offered $7500 with trade in. I sat there until they were about to close and they had worked their way down to a $5000 offer at which point they used the old line, "What would it take to get you in this car today?". I threw out $2500 with no expectation they would take it, and they did! It was a 2 year old Honda Accord w/ around 20K miles and ended up being a good car for me.

Kurt

 

[easyrider]

Gas prices are heading down in our area. I'm paying about $3.30 a gallon for regular but if I drove 5 miles south gas is now less than $2.80 a gallon. I heard it dropped to $2.71.

Bill

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

As a non-partisan on EVs, I ran across this on youtube. Something to think about for the future.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Gas prices are heading down in our area. I'm paying about $3.30 a gallon for regular but if I drove 5 miles south gas is now less than $2.80 a gallon. I heard it dropped to $2.71.

Bill

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I paid $2.75 last week, not bad here in Delaware state. I think it's gone back up a bit since though.

On another note, here's what ICE vehicles simply cannot do with gas:

NEWS: Redwood Materials recycled a record 20 GWh of batteries in 2024. That’s nearly double the amount of battery energy storage Tesla deployed in all of Q4 2024.

x.com

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[HitchHiker71]

As a non-partisan on EVs, I ran across this on youtube. Something to think about for the future.

Good video overall - CATL is a good engineering company without a doubt. I'd nitpick over a couple of his points as Tesla is actually already doing most of what is in this video with their Chinese built factory cars, and even here in the US - all Model Y and CTs are using most of the tech in this video - Gigacasting with structural battery packs using a modular manufacturing approach - which is why Tesla is the only profitable EV manufacturer to date (with the possible exception of one Chinese firm). The overall message of this video though - that BEVs are by far the safest vehicles on the roads today - is by every factual measure correct. They enjoy the highest safety ratings, are much less likely to catch fire, and are structurally much more sound than any/all ICE vehicles.

Yesterday we saw someone try to blow up a Tesla Cybertruck in Las Vegas using gasoline, fireworks, etc. within the truck bed. The structural battery pack remained intact - and never caught fire. That's incredible engineering really. In fact, the stainless steel exoskeleton forced the blast up - instead of out the sides - which spared lives - even sparing the all glass exterior of the hotel just a few feet away from the valet area.

ANOTHER REASON TO ADMIRE THE CYBERTRUCK… THE BATTERY PACK Today, with the fiery explosion involving a Cybertruck, the structural battery pack showed incredible durability—no flames. Tesla’s design is pure genius: 4680 cells arranged for optimal cooling, fire-retardant materials isolating potential heat, and a venting system that redirects gases safely downward. Even under extreme conditions, the pack stays intact, proving its resilience. This isn’t just a battery; it’s a fortress. While the exterior took the hit, Tesla’s innovation ensured the heart of the truck remained untouched.'

 

[Ken555]

Yesterday we saw someone try to blow up a Tesla Cybertruck in Las Vegas using gasoline, fireworks, etc. within the truck bed. The structural battery pack remained intact - and never caught fire. That's incredible engineering really. In fact, the stainless steel exoskeleton forced the blast up - instead of out the sides - which spared lives - even sparing the all glass exterior of the hotel just a few feet away from the valet area.

Yes, I may genuinely dislike the design of the CT, but the engineering is remarkable.

 

[Ken555]

Gas prices are heading down in our area. I'm paying about $3.30 a gallon for regular but if I drove 5 miles south gas is now less than $2.80 a gallon. I heard it dropped to $2.71.

I paid $4.50 a few days ago. For reference, today at Costco premium is $4.20

 

[easyrider]

So what's the deal with the cyber truck explosion at Trump Towers ? Was it a malfunction?

Bill

 

[Brett]

So what's the deal with the cyber truck explosion at Trump Towers ? Was it a malfunction?

Bill

Don't watch the news Bill?



Tesla cybertruck actually saved lives!
(according to Emo)


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meanwhile ....

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/chinas-byd-sells-over-500k-150001986.html