You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[easyrider]

Then it sounds like you should not buy an EV at this time given the charging limitations. Given the number of sales, there are many out there who do not have your self-imposed limitations. I have yet to understand why some people make such a big fuss about the existence of EVs -- making it political even. It's just baffling.

Kurt

Mostly because most people don't want to deal with all of the hassles. It's not a political thing. It's an extra amount of things that is the main objection.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

I'm talking about adding an EV charger on it's own circuit to a 100 amp service. You are talking about splitting an existing circuit or plugging into a wall outlet to charge an EV on a 100 amp service.

An L2 home charger only needs a 50 A 220 VAC circuit. You can also buy chargers that will work on 30 A 220 VAC.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[easyrider]

An L2 home charger only needs a 50 A 220 VAC circuit.

A 100 amp service is only rated at 80 amps. Do you see the problem ?

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

well i mean those statements simply dont jive...

most homes (both 100a and 200a service) have an electric dryer and every EV made I can think of is able charge off a 220v/30a dryer outlet thus the VAST majority of chargers sold utilize these outlets. ipso facto...one can factually state that most homes are able to charge an EV using a commonly available charger without changing anything regarding their wiring or breaker panel.


perhaps you meant to say that in order to install the absolutely highest power/charge rate chargers sold an older home with a 100a breaker panel would need a significant upgrade which would absolutely be true. however id imagine most people in that situation would forgo that cost in lieu of either of the far cheaper and easier options mentioned above and simply use a lower powered charger.

If we assume that the average consumer drives 30 miles per day - they could survive on a 115v /15amp outlet charging 8-10 hours overnight - adding 30-40 miles per night - or enough to cover their daily driving. Everyone has these outlets. Stepping up to using a 220v outlet delivers 25-35 miles per hour charge depending on the amperage.

Our TWC uses a dedicated 60amp circuit using 48amps at 230v which adds 44 miles per hour. If we were to ever buy another EV, I’d buy another TWC and daisy chain the two on the same circuit, which when both in use would charge both EVs at 22mph. More than enough for our use cases.

Point being there are plenty of options for charging that don’t require dedicated circuits, and can more than meet the daily driver needs for 90% of drivers today.


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[DrQ]

A 100 amp service is only rated at 80 amps. Do you see the problem ?

Bill

If the 100 amp service has a dryer connected to the panel, you can use that circuit to charge the EV, most likely at 25 amps if the dryer circuit is 40 amps.
Most likely:

• Gas stove/oven
• Gas water heater
• Gas furnace
• No central AC

This describes my in laws house built in the 1950's

 

[HitchHiker71]

An L2 home charger only needs a 50 A 220 VAC circuit. You can also buy chargers that will work on 30 A 220 VAC.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Actually an L2 charger can draw as little as 25amps or as high as 100amps, it all depends on the L2 charger chosen and what you set it at for use. The Tesla mobile charger is an L1/L2 charger that comes with plugs for 110/115v outlets and for 220/230v outlets and can charge from as little as 15amps to a maximum of 48 amps. It will work with either format. Flexibility is key. Very easy to use and change the settings in the app or in the vehicle.


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[HitchHiker71]

Mostly because most people don't want to deal with all of the hassles. It's not a political thing. It's an extra amount of things that is the main objection.

Bill

Ever actually driven a BEV before? Lived with one? They are lower hassle than any ICE vehicle I’ve ever owned. Zero maintenance in comparison. I really don’t understand why people with zero real world experience with EVs say such things. Most of it is FUD.


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[HitchHiker71]

If the 100 amp service has a dryer connected to the panel, you can use that circuit to charge the EV, most likely at 25 amps if the dryer circuit is 40 amps.
Most likely:

• Gas stove/oven
• Gas water heater
• Gas furnace
• No central AC

This describes my in laws house built in the 1950's

Exactly. I’ve visited some folks in older homes with our BEV and used their dryer plug to charge overnight with the Tesla mobile charger. Easy peasy.


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[DrQ]

Actually an L2 charger can draw as little as 25amps or as high as 100amps, ...

Outside of the Tesla world, most L2 chargers use a NEMA 14-50 socket. 50 A 220 VAC circuit. Beyond that, you are looking at having to hardwire the connection.

 

[HitchHiker71]

When I want to do a road trip - say I want to see my sister who is 316 miles away - I want to do a road trip. My car be able to do this without stopping (once fueled), even in 105 F heat, or I won't buy it. No compromise on this, it's the base requirement. And with the limited charging available on a road trip, I would prefer to be able to double that, so i don't have to worry about the return trip.

We have a truck that can go a maximum of 660 miles on one tank. 600 realistically. We don’t drive 6-7 hours straight with no breaks these days. We stop every 2-3 hours for bathroom and food breaks since we are in our 50s. The fastest we ever made it from our home to Myrtle Beach in my truck was about nine hours including breaks and no gas station stops. We drove our BEV on the last MB trip and made it in just over nine hours including all charging stops/breaks. No real difference in other words. It cost me about 25% of the cost of taking the truck for fuel.


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[TUGBrian]

Outside of the Tesla world, most L2 chargers use a NEMA 14-50 socket. 50 A 220 VAC circuit. Beyond that, you are looking at having to hardwire the connection.

I think the main issue here is the use of the word "most", which indicates a vast majority in these conversations.

there are unlimited supplies of lower power lvl2 capable chargers that will plug into a regular 110 outlet, or a 220v outlet charging at less than 20 amps, and they are in the 150-250 dollar range. 220v @ 20amps provides 10 to 15 miles per hour of charge compared to 1-2 miles per hour at the 110v level.

Ive lived for a few years now charging only on 110v as my daily drive every day is under 20 total miles.


the real benefit to the super high amperage chargers is for places that offer much cheaper electric rates after hours so that you can fully charge your vehicle in a much smaller window to maximize your cost savings.

 

[dagger1]

Then it sounds like you should not buy an EV at this time given the charging limitations. Given the number of sales, there are many out there who do not have your self-imposed limitations. I have yet to understand why some people make such a big fuss about the existence of EVs -- making it political even. It's just baffling.

Kurt

Due

Then it sounds like you should not buy an EV at this time given the charging limitations. Given the number of sales, there are many out there who do not have your self-imposed limitations. I have yet to understand why some people make such a big fuss about the existence of EVs -- making it political even. It's just baffling.

Kurt

I think because many feel they are being forced to buy them.

 

[DrQ]

I think the main issue here is the use of the word "most", which indicates a vast majority in these conversations.

there are unlimited supplies of lower power lvl2 capable chargers that will plug into a regular 110 outlet, or a 220v outlet charging at less than 20 amps, and they are in the 150-250 dollar range. 220v @ 20amps provides 10 to 15 miles per hour of charge compared to 1-2 miles per hour at the 110v level.

Ive lived for a few years now charging only on 110v as my daily drive every day is under 20 total miles.


the real benefit to the super high amperage chargers is for places that offer much cheaper electric rates after hours so that you can fully charge your vehicle in a much smaller window to maximize your cost savings.

The link I provided on Amazon is my L1/L2 charger:

TRAVELMASTER Level 2 Portable EV Charger, 25ft Cable, Intelligent Plug Identification Auto-Adjusts Maximum Safe Current 15A/25A/32A Electric Vehicle Plug-in Charging Station (2-Gen)​

110 VAC 8A to 240 VAC 32 A

You swap out the plugs on the pigtail. In a pinch, you can go to a campground and pay a fee to use a NEMA-50 connector for a campsite hookup.

 

[TUGBrian]

yep, mine works the same way.

 

[easyrider]

Ever actually driven a BEV before? Lived with one? They are lower hassle than any ICE vehicle I’ve ever owned. Zero maintenance in comparison. I really don’t understand why people with zero real world experience with EVs say such things. Most of it is FUD.


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BEV No. Hybrid yes.

Let's talk about ev fud for a bit.

No one wants to be stuck without fuel. With ice you get a some gas. With an EV you get towed to a charger if you are lucky.

No one likes the depreciation of an EV but a used EV buyer. That being said, most people don't want to buy a used EV unless it's almost free.

There is maintenance on ev's. There are filters and oil as well as tires that need to be maintained at a minimum.

No one in many areas will work on some of these ev's , especially a Tesla.

If a Tesla is parked in a garage and starts on fire, the fire will burn hotter and longer than if it were an ice vehicle in the garage.

I agree that some ev's are great products for some people. I could probably get by with an EV but my driving needs are more than to just get by.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

If a Tesla is parked in a garage and starts on fire, the fire will burn hotter and longer than if it were an ice vehicle in the garage.

If your vehicle is in your garage and catches fire, does it really matter how hot it burns? Most likely, your house is going to burn down if it's an attached garage. Be it ICE or BEV.

 

[easyrider]

If your vehicle is in your garage and catches fire, does it really matter how hot it burns? Most likely, your house is going to burn down if it's an attached garage. Be it ICE or BEV.

The point is an EV fire burns hotter and longer because of the lithium battery. It does matter how things burn in regards to the time and process to put out a fire. Some ev's are know for spontaneous combustion due to battery. Recently, all of the brand new Solos ev's were tossed in a junk yard because of a battery related fire hazard. They were just starting on fire leaving no trace of the cause.

Most vehicle fires are caused by electrical shorts. An EV is designed with many more electrical components than a regular ice type vehicle. These fires are difficult to extinguish.

Bill

 

[PigsDad]

No one wants to be stuck without fuel. With ice you get a some gas. With an EV you get towed to a charger if you are lucky.

I've been driving for over 40 years now. Do you know how many times I have run out of fuel? Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nil.

I would bet that 99% of the population is in the same boat. This tired, old argument is just that -- tired and old, plus unimaginative. And yet the radical anti-EV-ers always seem to bring that up. Gee, I wonder why?

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

I think because many feel they are being forced to buy them.

Please show me anyone who has been "forced to buy them". I'll wait.

Kurt

 

[Ken555]

Recently, all of the brand new Solos ev's were tossed in a junk yard because of a battery related fire hazard. They were just starting on fire leaving no trace of the cause.

Please post a link detailing that these vehicles were disposed due to a battery issue. What I read is that they had other issues which they couldn’t solve and the company opted for a buy back program, but I didn’t read that it was a battery issue.

 

[easyrider]

I've been driving for over 40 years now. Do you know how many times I have run out of fuel? Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nil.

I would bet that 99% of the population is in the same boat. This tired, old argument is just that -- tired and old, plus unimaginative. And yet the radical anti-EV-ers always seem to bring that up. Gee, I wonder why?

Kurt

Have you thought about why you haven't ever ran out of gas ? It probably has something to do with plentiful gas stations.

You really can't say the same for EV charging stations. The possibility of running out of electricity for an ev is way higher than the possibility of a vehicle running out of gas.

I'm not anti EV. I wouldn't want one. I'm not sure why you think I'm a radical anti-anything. Really, I'm live and let live. If you like ev's good for you.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Please post a link detailing that these vehicles were disposed due to a battery issue. What I read is that they had other issues which they couldn’t solve and the company opted for a buy back program, but I didn’t read that it was a battery issue.

No thank you Ken.

Bill

 

[Ken555]

No thank you Ken.

Bill

I searched myself, and none of the articles about this particular incident said anything about a battery problem, but it’s possible that I missed it.

Unless you post supporting documentation, I can only assume you reached an erroneous conclusion in order to support your misguided argument about EVs.

 

[PigsDad]

Have you thought about why you haven't ever ran out of gas ? It probably has something to do with plentiful gas stations.

No, the reason I have never run out of fuel is because I pay attention to my gas gauge. With an EV, you know how far you can drive and you know where the next charging station is, plus, the car will map it out for you so you really don't have to even think. Contrary to your belief, there are plenty of EV charging stations. I don't know where you get the idea that charging stations are so rare.

Kurt

 

[easyrider]

Kurt, I think it depends on where you live. In my area there are 50 EV charging stations in 16 locations listed with none all that convenient to go to. There is a gas station with many pumps within every mile.

A recent study found that 16% of EV owners have run out of juice so this is definitely an issue. Like you said, you have been driving for 40 years without ever running out of gas and 99% of drivers are in the same boat. I can believe that.

If EV rental car drivers were added to the owners group my bet it's more than 16%.

Bill

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/new-study-suggests-16-of-ev-owners-have-run-out-of-juice/

Range anxiety is often seen as something of the past as many electric vehicles can now travel hundreds of miles on a single charge. However, a new study has found that 16% of EV owners have completely run out of juice.