You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[Carolinian]

Polls are often pre determined and depend on the questions asked and the universe of those polled. I hadn't heard any complaints like are in the article so I thought I would look into the source. I see that it was written by someone from epoch times. Epoch Times has a pronounced anti environmental bent, tried to prove that there is no human involvement in the warming planet, and more. So knowing the source, and being an EV owner who spent months if not a year or more on all kinds of EV forums, with questions were posed about returning to ICE from EV, I found a few, very few owners that would. Most of the anti EV posts weren't by people owned an EV, rather people who just wanted to argue. I talked to one guy at a charging station that was frustrated about a number of things about his EV, but there was no way he was going to go back to ICE, but he might buy a different brand.

Again, what you need to look at is the 2024 McKenzie and Co. Consumer Global Mobility Survey, NOT who happened to write a story about it. You are shooting the middle man messenger, NOT addressing the company that actually did the survey. When I first posted the link, I mentioned I expected some here to shoot the messenger, and I was right on that.

 

[Ken555]

When I first posted the link, I mentioned I expected some here to shoot the messenger, and I was right on that.

Of course you’re right about that, because ***all*** of your posts are anti-EV. You’re so obviously biased on this topic you’ve lost all credibility from those of us who read TUG.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[emeryjre]

Again, what you need to look at is the 2024 McKenzie and Co. Consumer Global Mobility Survey, NOT who happened to write a story about it. You are shooting the middle man messenger, NOT addressing the company that actually did the survey. When I first posted the link, I mentioned I expected some here to shoot the messenger, and I was right on that.

Can you provide a link to the actual report
Eliminate the reporting bias and allow us to draw our own conclusions
I would love to see how the report is constructed, who is polled, how large a sample was used, etc., etc

 

[Brett]

Of course you’re right about that, because ***all*** of your posts are anti-EV. You’re so obviously biased on this topic you’ve lost all credibility from those of us who read TUG.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OMG !

Carolinian hates electric cars ??

.


but what about sharks ?

 

[easyrider]

OMG !

Carolinian hates electric cars ??

View attachment 95330






.


but what about sharks ?

Ok, that was pretty funny Brett.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

Can you provide a link to the actual report
Eliminate the reporting bias and allow us to draw our own conclusions
I would love to see how the report is constructed, who is polled, how large a sample was used, etc., etc

Here’s an article that pieces apart the McKinsey 2024 Mobility Consumer Pulse - and provides a link directly to the slide deck for anyone interested:

Unpacking The McKinsey Mobility Consumer Survey - Henny Penny Edition - CleanTechnica

Research by McKinsey has found that some electric car owners are considering a switch back to a conventional car. Here's why.

cleantechnica.com

Here’s a paste of the slide that is getting attention - it’s slide 11/29:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[x3 skier]

VW Is Shifting EV Investment Dollars to Fund Further ICE Development

Volkswagen hasn’t given up on its electrification plans, but it plans to shift some of its EV-designated funds to continue developing gas engines. Company Chief Financial Officer Arno Antlitz said the automaker would spend around $65 billion to “keep our combustion cars competitive.” The...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

 

[Ken555]

VW Is Shifting EV Investment Dollars to Fund Further ICE Development

Volkswagen hasn’t given up on its electrification plans, but it plans to shift some of its EV-designated funds to continue developing gas engines. Company Chief Financial Officer Arno Antlitz said the automaker would spend around $65 billion to “keep our combustion cars competitive.” The...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

The ID.3 looks great (similar to the Golf), and when I’m in Europe I see many of them. It’s disappointing they haven’t brought that model to North America.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ubil]

I don't know if this has already been covered. A friend of mine is a concrete engineer, ie, designs concrete structures with the right kind/strength of concrete and steel. He is working on new parking garages. The requirements don't give a specific weight per vehicle, but he has been told to use the weight of a Ford 150 pickup. The requirements also do not give how many EV charging stations are needed (every space? some percentage of spaces? separate charging area?)

BTW, his company engineered and manufactured the arches of the Dulles Airport terminal.

 

[emeryjre]

Here’s an article that pieces apart the McKinsey 2024 Mobility Consumer Pulse - and provides a link directly to the slide deck for anyone interested:

Unpacking The McKinsey Mobility Consumer Survey - Henny Penny Edition - CleanTechnica

Research by McKinsey has found that some electric car owners are considering a switch back to a conventional car. Here's why.

cleantechnica.com

Here’s a paste of the slide that is getting attention - it’s slide 11/29:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The survey started in 2021
What was a problem in 2021 MAY NOT be a problem in 2024

What I found interesting from the unpack was the summary

Looking at the data over the past three years, McKinsey found that globally, the percentage of people who intend to make an electric car their next purchase continues to rise, however more slowly. It also found that those who are considering an electric car are younger, more tech savvy, and tend to live in urban areas.

Exactly what I would have expected to be the case

Younger people are more likely buyers
Tech Savvy people are more likely buyers
People Living in Urban areas are more likely buyers

My impression of anti EV posters in TUG forums
Not younger
not especially tech savvy
Not Urban dwellers

So they fit the profile of people not interested in an EV
What I don't understand is why people feel the need to attack what they are not going to use or utilize
Especially if you do not live in an urban area where air pollution is still a substantial issue

 

[ScoopKona]

So they fit the profile of people not interested in an EV
What I don't understand is why people feel the need to attack what they are not going to use or utilize
Especially if you do not live in an urban area where air pollution is still a substantial issue

If Hawaii ever makes good on their threat to create a commercial hydrogen station, I'll buy a fuel-cell car in a split second. Our buses currently run on H2, but the public isn't allowed to fill up. Only the public buses because the station was built with tax dollars.

If (as with most things) it looks like hydrogen isn't going to actually happen, I should have solar panels on the roof by then for an EV.

The part I find interesting in this "debate" is that 120 years ago, when cars were replacing horses and carriages, people couldn't WAIT to switch. Urbanites didn't like streets covered in horse [excrement]. Care and feeding was an expensive chore. (It's too bad they didn't realize they were pumping lead into the atmosphere and making the next generations dumber.) But on the whole, people were eager to switch. And those who didn't, kept riding their horse until it no longer made sense.

If today's gainsayers lived back then (well, some of them probably did live back then), they'd be clutching pearls about their beloved horse [excrement]. "Cars can catch on fire! Horses never catch fire!"

 

[DrQ]

Younger people are more likely buyers
Tech Savvy people are more likely buyers
People Living in Urban areas are more likely buyers

My impression of anti EV posters in TUG forums
Not younger
not especially tech savvy
Not Urban dwellers

So they fit the profile of people not interested in an EV
What I don't understand is why people feel the need to attack what they are not going to use or utilize
Especially if you do not live in an urban area where air pollution is still a substantial issue

Not so much on the ageism, I believe most of the early adopters were wealthy with disposable income that could afford an EV as a "toy". I was 67 when I bought my Bolt EV but I analyzed my driving and saw that the stop/go commute was wearing out my ICE vehicle. I purchased the Bolt EV as a "city" car, reserving our ICE car as a "vacation" car.

We also had a gas shortage a couple of years prior, so the ability to charge the vehicle at home overnight was appealing.

 

[emeryjre]

If Hawaii ever makes good on their threat to create a commercial hydrogen station, I'll buy a fuel-cell car in a split second. Our buses currently run on H2, but the public isn't allowed to fill up. Only the public buses because the station was built with tax dollars.

If (as with most things) it looks like hydrogen isn't going to actually happen, I should have solar panels on the roof by then for an EV.

The part I find interesting in this "debate" is that 120 years ago, when cars were replacing horses and carriages, people couldn't WAIT to switch. Urbanites didn't like streets covered in horse [excrement]. Care and feeding was an expensive chore. (It's too bad they didn't realize they were pumping lead into the atmosphere and making the next generations dumber.) But on the whole, people were eager to switch. And those who didn't, kept riding their horse until it no longer made sense.

If today's gainsayers lived back then (well, some of them probably did live back then), they'd be clutching pearls about their beloved horse [excrement]. "Cars can catch on fire! Horses never catch fire!"

One of these days
Green Hydrogen will be cheap enough
I am not sure what Hydrogen used to run the buses is costing per Kilo
But my guess is expensive compared to gas/diesel
The tech promises soaking up investments in hydrogen production pilot plants have not been successful in production inexpensive green hydrogen
YET

 

[emeryjre]

Not so much on the ageism, I believe most of the early adopters were wealthy with disposable income that could afford an EV as a "toy". I was 67 when I bought my Bolt EV but I analyzed my driving and saw that the stop/go commute was wearing out my ICE vehicle. I purchased the Bolt EV as a "city" car, reserving our ICE car as a "vacation" car.

People buying the first Model S Teslas had money
Generally lots of money
Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Corvette buyer money
It was the cool car

Don't know you
But
I am under the impression you are tech savvy
Also impression is you live in an urban area

 

[HitchHiker71]

The survey started in 2021
What was a problem in 2021 MAY NOT be a problem in 2024

What I found interesting from the unpack was the summary

Looking at the data over the past three years, McKinsey found that globally, the percentage of people who intend to make an electric car their next purchase continues to rise, however more slowly. It also found that those who are considering an electric car are younger, more tech savvy, and tend to live in urban areas.

Exactly what I would have expected to be the case

Younger people are more likely buyers
Tech Savvy people are more likely buyers
People Living in Urban areas are more likely buyers

My impression of anti EV posters in TUG forums
Not younger
not especially tech savvy
Not Urban dwellers

So they fit the profile of people not interested in an EV
What I don't understand is why people feel the need to attack what they are not going to use or utilize
Especially if you do not live in an urban area where air pollution is still a substantial issue

Agreed. What actually stood out to me most, was the almost 1/3 of people, 29%, who want to replace their automobile with other forms of transportation. They cited expensive car ownership costs, a desire to live a more sustainable lifestyle, and remote work. This number will only rise over time. This speaks to autonomous vehicles and TaaS - which is why Tesla is so laser focused on bringing a L3/L4/L5 vehicle to market for TaaS purposes. Whomever does this first, changes the game, as this is the future, especially for urban areas. For most folks, it will come down to a simple economic choice, if TaaS cuts 50-75% of their private vehicle/insurance/maintenance costs from their family budget and transfers all risk to the TaaS provider, it's a no brainer really.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The part I find interesting in this "debate" is that 120 years ago, when cars were replacing horses and carriages, people couldn't WAIT to switch. Urbanites didn't like streets covered in horse [excrement]. Care and feeding was an expensive chore. (It's too bad they didn't realize they were pumping lead into the atmosphere and making the next generations dumber.) But on the whole, people were eager to switch. And those who didn't, kept riding their horse until it no longer made sense.

If today's gainsayers lived back then (well, some of them probably did live back then), they'd be clutching pearls about their beloved horse [excrement]. "Cars can catch on fire! Horses never catch fire!"

I think one of the key differences that goes unsaid is that comparing horses to cars - cars were orders of magnitude better at just about everything when compared to a horse - like 10-20x better/faster - and eventually cheaper (time is money). While BEVs are good and getting better - they aren't orders of magnitude better than ICE vehicles - and in some key areas - like range and refueling time when road tripping - they are worse. So the horses/cars comparison is really apples and oranges with respect to BEV/ICE IMHO. If a BEV was released that offered true 1000 mile range, and 5-10 minute recharging, that would change the game at least somewhat, but we simply aren't there yet, and likely won't be for many years as the tech needed to do this, is many many years away from mass production.

 

[ScoopKona]

if TaaS cuts 50-75% of their private vehicle/insurance/maintenance costs from their family budget, it's a no brainer really.

The two things I'm looking forward to most are 1) Fusion Power (c'mon Tokamak!) and 2) TaaS.

I agree it will be a game-changer. Going back to my turn of the 20th comparison, one of the things we got when we gave up the reins for the ignition key was carriage houses. The old carriage house was obsolete, and turning them into useful living space became one of the big industries of the early 20th century. It put a lot of people to work. And it made a great deal of instant living space.

It will be the same thing with garages -- remove the door, frame it in, and turn a three-car garage into more room. I see a LOT of instant rental apartments happening. Most built in garages have plumbing already built in, so aside from running drains (and there will be post-tensioned slab catastrophies), converting really isn't that big of a deal.

We'll also rid ourselves of traffic lights -- since all the cars are talking to each other in real time. "Who yields right of way" will never be an issue.

 

[ScoopKona]

I think one of the key differences that goes unsaid is that comparing horses to cars - cars were orders of magnitude better at just about everything when compared to a horse - like 10-20x better/faster - and eventually cheaper (time is money).

At first, they weren't. Anyone who owned one had to be their own mechanic, or employ one. Most people needed to employ a driver. They were cantankerous machines that needed constant attention*. And people were STILL eager to give up the reins because horses come with their own basket of problems.

It took years, and the Model T, to even the playing field. It's taking longer for EVs to become the "no brainer" choice. I agree with that. But we're still rather early in the EV development arc. If Moore's Law holds for EVs, it won't be long.

* Remember that the Michelin Guide came into existence because Michelin needed to give automobile owners something to do with their vehicles. They settled on "drive to a restaurant."

 

[DrQ]

TESLAS ARE BREAKING DOWN MORE AND MORE, DATA SHOWS​

"IT’S NOT BEING WELL RECEIVED."​

Now add another headache: the latest JD Power US Initial Quality Study found that Tesla cars are breaking down more and more — and that electric vehicles, with Tesla far and away the top seller in America, are having more mechanical issues than vehicles powered by gas.​

​

The study not only sends into high relief overall problems at Tesla, but also undercuts the prevalent narrative that EVs require less maintenance and repair compared to gas-powered vehicles — a narrative long touted by federal agencies and parroted by mainstream media.​

I chuckle at the (il)logical jump the author takes from issues with Teslas translates to ALL EVs

Issues like:

Why the change in quality? Drivers dinged Tesla for eliminating turn-signal stalks and moving window controls and the car horn from the center of the steering wheel to the rim, among other reasons.​

I think that this is just indicative of a manufacturer that is still immature and willing to "break the rules" concerning driving ergonomics.

Teslas Are Breaking Down More and More, Data Shows

New J.D. Power reports says Tesla cars have reduced in quality and that they are breaking down more compared to other cars.

futurism.com

 

[easyrider]

EV's are an interesting topic. The main reason ev's will phase out in the USA is that they are a niche product sold to a niche demographic which represents maybe 10% of the population at best. The biggest lie is that ev's can replace ice vehicles. They can't.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

Why Fisker’s bankruptcy is likely to leave its EV owners without warranty​

Build problems and unmet need for software updates have Fisker owners worried.​

Fisker owners fear for future support after bankruptcy

Build problems and unmet need for software updates have Fisker owners worried.

arstechnica.com

 

[HitchHiker71]

TESLAS ARE BREAKING DOWN MORE AND MORE, DATA SHOWS​

"IT’S NOT BEING WELL RECEIVED."​

Now add another headache: the latest JD Power US Initial Quality Study found that Tesla cars are breaking down more and more — and that electric vehicles, with Tesla far and away the top seller in America, are having more mechanical issues than vehicles powered by gas.​

​

The study not only sends into high relief overall problems at Tesla, but also undercuts the prevalent narrative that EVs require less maintenance and repair compared to gas-powered vehicles — a narrative long touted by federal agencies and parroted by mainstream media.​

I chuckle at the (il)logical jump the author takes from issues with Teslas translates to ALL EVs

Issues like:

Why the change in quality? Drivers dinged Tesla for eliminating turn-signal stalks and moving window controls and the car horn from the center of the steering wheel to the rim, among other reasons.​

I think that this is just indicative of a manufacturer that is still immature and willing to "break the rules" concerning driving ergonomics.

Teslas Are Breaking Down More and More, Data Shows

New J.D. Power reports says Tesla cars have reduced in quality and that they are breaking down more compared to other cars.

futurism.com

It's interesting considering the change of functions - for example eliminating stalks - has exactly NOTHING to do with initial quality - it's an adoption issue really. Not saying I agree or disagree with stalk removals - I'm simply saying - that has nothing to do with initial quality - and the fact that JD Power is considering adoption issues part of initial quality - tells you just how flawed their methodology really is. Long story short, the older MS and MX are widely known for their QC issues - the newer M3/MY are much better built - using much stiffer body components and chassis components - and much simpler designs. Many people are afraid of change - and IME the vast majority of people that complain about EVs - have never driven one - let alone lived with one on a day to day basis. As Jim Farley recently pointed out on a long form interview - the average car buyer drives more than 150 miles four times a year - only four - the other 361 days they do normal around town local driving where EVs shine. Even at 150 miles - you can get to where you're going without charging until you arrive at your destination. So statistically, the vast majority of US consumers are a good fit for EVs - the key issue is surmounting the FUD really.

 

[dagger1]

https://www.fastcompany.com/91150637/why-the-ev-revolution-has-hit-a-wall

Have no idea who Fast Company is. I do know that we bought an electric golf cart and love it.

 

[Carolinian]

Inchon, South Korea - A Mercedes EV parked in a parking garage, not running or being charged, spontaneously combusted damaging other vehicles, injuring 21 and sending 16 people, including children to the hospital.

21 injured after Mercedes EV explodes in parking lot

A Mercedes-Benz EV exploded in an underground parking lot at an apartment complex in Incheon, sending 16 people to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

 

[Brett]

More than half of new cars sold in China are now electric or hybrid​

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/09/mor...es have outsold,Car Association data for July.