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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

dagger1

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Sorry, can’t seem to delete the above!! Can someone delete for me?
 

pedro47

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I have several questions what are the estimate costs to own and to drive an EV in the next 5 to 10 years?.
Liked what are the estimates costs to charge an EV for a 300 to 500 miles monthly travel ? Now and 5 to 10 years from 2024?


Will the actual cost to drive an EV be less than a gasoline or diesel vehicle ?
 
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emeryjre

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I can tell you at least two coal mining operations are alive and well in North Dakota
They are running at full tilt
Supplying North Dakota and Wester Minnesota with electricity
They strip mine the coal after removing all the soil
When they are done with an area
The soil is replaced and nobody would know that coal had ever been extracted
The coal is used to produce energy at coal burning operation within several miles of the coal extraction
They would switch to natural gas
But the environmentalist will not allow natural gas pipelines to be built from West North Dakota to Central North Dakota
So the natural gas is flared off in a highly inefficient manner
Wasted and never utilized
BIL ran the coal operations until he retired several years ago
 

Passepartout

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I have several questions what are the estimate costs to own and to drive an EV in the next 5 to 10 years?.
Liked what are the estimates costs to charge an EV for a 300 to 500 miles monthly travel ? Now and 5 to 10 years from 2024?


Will the actual cost to drive an EV be less than a gasoline or diesel vehicle ?
@pedro47 This thread has been active nearly 3 months, and you've asked essentially the same question several times. Nobody can answer the questions definitively due to all the variabilities. Like WHAT EV? Chevy Bolt or Tesla or Hummer EV? Nobody knows what it will cost to own and operate anything in 10 years. Costs of operation are vastly different if one is charging their EV at home at night or if one is traveling long distances and is using retail charging facilities. The best one can do is ask users for anecdotal experience. Even at that, memories can be faulty. One might forget from the time their EV is charged out in Timbuktu and 45 days later when the credit card bill is paid. It isn't like the retail charger has a big, neon sign proclaiming how many cents a kWh their power is at any given time. (it's sometimes cheaper at off-peak times).

One thing is pretty certain. Over time, the actual cost of owning/using/maintaining an EV will be cheaper than the gas- or diesel alternative. How much cheaper is the unknown.
 

easyrider

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Ev's are an unsustainable product and the reason many people embrace the idea that ev's are good in any way has more to do with political ideology than reality, imo.

Bill
 

Ken555

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Ev's are an unsustainable product and the reason many people embrace the idea that ev's are good in any way has more to do with political ideology than reality, imo.

Bill

ROFL


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

PcflEZFlng

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Ev's are an unsustainable product and the reason many people embrace the idea that ev's are good in any way has more to do with political ideology than reality, imo.

Bill
Nonsense.
 

easyrider

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The truth is that ev's will never be able to compete with ice for many reasons. A big reason is the resale market for ev's is terrible. There are no incentives to buy the used ev's and the perception is that they are a problem after a few years or after 60,000 miles. A high mileage ice vehicle might be 7 years old with 150,000 to 300,000 miles and very sell-able whereas an ev at 60,000 miles is considered used up to most buyers. In other words, people will buy an ice vehicle with 150,000 miles on it but won't buy an ev with 60,000 miles on it.

Buying an ev is a financial decision for most. At some price point it will make sense to have an ev for some transportation needs but that won't include anything other than a car, imo. It's already been shown by use that ev heavy equipment has too long a charging time to be commercially viable.

@Brett maybe you shouldn't use the c word as it can lock the thread. It is an exaggeration to say I gave anyone medical advice. Disparaging a person instead of offering an idea is the epitome of ignorance, imo.

Bill
 
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Brett

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The truth is that ev's will never be able to compete with ice for many reasons. A big reason is the resale market for ev's is terrible. There are no incentives to buy the used ev's and the perception is that they are a problem after a few years or after 60,000 miles. A high mileage ice vehicle might be 7 years old with 150,000 to 300,000 miles and very sell-able whereas an ev at 60,000 miles is considered used up to most buyers. In other words, people will buy an ice vehicle with 150,000 miles on it but won't buy an ev with 60,000 miles on it.

Buying an ev is a financial decision for most. At some price point it will make sense to have an ev for some transportation needs but that won't include anything other than a car, imo. It's already been shown by use that ev heavy equipment has too long a charging time to be commercially viable.

@Brett maybe you shouldn't use the c word as it can lock the thread. It is an exaggeration to say I gave anyone medical advice. Disparaging a person instead of offering an idea is the epitome of ignorance, imo.

Bill


LOL
Those covid "medical advice " ... "exaggerations" !!


it's always the political 'dog whistle' for you ................ (and Carolinian ;)


...




Maybe it's more important to think about when those oil wells run dry




oil.png


oil_2.png
 
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easyrider

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LOL
Those covid "medical advice " ... "exaggerations" !!


it's always the political 'dog whistle' for you ................ (and Carolinian ;)


...




Maybe it's more important to think about when those oil wells run dry




View attachment 94770

View attachment 94771

Nice try on the dog whistle political thing but you are mistaken. I dislike most politicians, clergy and other mimicking type wind bags.

It's interesting that you think we will run out of oil. I'm not sure if you really understand this statement. What the above statement means is with the oil reserves in use today, and technology in use today, they can estimate that the reserves will last about 50 years. What isn't being revealed in the statement is that technology changes to meet demand and there are numerous geological formations where oil hasn't been tapped.

Interesting is the materials used to create a lithium battery are in short supply. Some estimates are they will run short ofthe lithium needed for ev batteries by 2025-2026. As the supply dwindles the costs of these materials increase. Because of environmental regulations , many countries can not produce these materials at a lower cost than countries with no environmental regulations regarding these materials. In a way, our regulations only pollute the world more because of our demand for materials.

So why do you think ev's will replace ice any time soon ? I just don't see it happening.

Bill
 

TolmiePeak

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Ev's are an unsustainable product and the reason many people embrace the idea that ev's are good in any way has more to do with political ideology than reality, imo.

Bill
Maybe they just want to avoid pennies Inslee's carbon taxes?
 

TolmiePeak

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Oddly, I like carbon taxes.

Bill
Do you have an EV? I don't have either and ICE or an EV. Riding my bike through the rain in 35 degrees temperatures to work in Seattle works for me. I'm cheap.
 

easyrider

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Do you have an EV? I don't have either and ICE or an EV. Riding my bike through the rain in 35 degrees temperatures to work in Seattle works for me. I'm cheap.

No ev here. Maybe a hybrid in the next few years depending how the wind blows.

Bill
 

Brett

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Nice try on the dog whistle political thing but you are mistaken. I dislike most politicians, clergy and other mimicking type wind bags.

It's interesting that you think we will run out of oil. I'm not sure if you really understand this statement. What the above statement means is with the oil reserves in use today, and technology in use today, they can estimate that the reserves will last about 50 years. What isn't being revealed in the statement is that technology changes to meet demand and there are numerous geological formations where oil hasn't been tapped.

Interesting is the materials used to create a lithium battery are in short supply. Some estimates are they will run short ofthe lithium needed for ev batteries by 2025-2026. As the supply dwindles the costs of these materials increase. Because of environmental regulations , many countries can not produce these materials at a lower cost than countries with no environmental regulations regarding these materials. In a way, our regulations only pollute the world more because of our demand for materials.

So why do you think ev's will replace ice any time soon ? I just don't see it happening.

Bill


LOL -

it's no conspiracy, oil wells and coal mines will eventually disappear


oil2.png



hybrid.png




https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/23/electric-and-hybrid-car-sales-to-rise-to-new-global-record-in-2024#:~:text=The Paris-based forecaster said,by 2030 as prices drop.
 
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pedro47

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Does anyone remember when diesel fuel was cheaper than regular gasoline?
Now diesel fuel per gallon cost more than regular gasoline per gallon.
 
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easyrider

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LOL -

it's no conspiracy, oil wells and coal mines will eventually disappear

No one says it's a conspiracy except alarmists. Geologists say there are many areas of un-tapped natural resource reserves. When there is demand the technology will improve. An example is fracking which was developed in the early 50's but not really a viable option due to costs. As the technology improved the costs came in line with oil prices.

What you might be saying is known oil wells and known coal mines could eventually disappear. What I am saying is that there will be other oil wells and coal mines to replace the ones that disappear. Even if all vehicles used electricity to operate we would still be dependent on hydrocarbons. Almost every product we use is hydrocarbon based including the vehicle using electricity.

Bill
 

RX8

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I didn’t read all 14 pages of this thread but wanted to share my experience.

In 2021 I bought a very cheap, 4 year old used Kia Soul EV. It looks like any other Soul but is all electric. Official range is 93 miles. I drive it every day and charge it off peak at night using a regular 110 outlet. Just like plugging in a large toaster. Where I live, off peak charging is less than 7 cents KWH. I’ve driven almost 30K miles with practically zero maintenance. With my 7 year old EV, I have seen essentially zero battery degradation. In the summer, I am well over 100 miles on the range. In the cold winter months, I am at a range of about 85 miles. I couldn’t have picked a better used vehicle. In my opinion, this is where EVs shine - a small city commuter.

The manufacturers really screwed up by going all in with large expensive EVs. The next wave will be affordable small EVs. Seeing that they will be developed as true EVs with the latest technology, they are guaranteed to be immensely better than my Kia Soul EV, which to me already hits the spot.

YMMV
 
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jp10558

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No one says it's a conspiracy except alarmists. Geologists say there are many areas of un-tapped natural resource reserves. When there is demand the technology will improve. An example is fracking which was developed in the early 50's but not really a viable option due to costs. As the technology improved the costs came in line with oil prices.

What you might be saying is known oil wells and known coal mines could eventually disappear. What I am saying is that there will be other oil wells and coal mines to replace the ones that disappear. Even if all vehicles used electricity to operate we would still be dependent on hydrocarbons. Almost every product we use is hydrocarbon based including the vehicle using electricity.

Bill
Eventually we'll run out if we use oil / gas / coal faster than it's produced geologically. I don't think that's anytime soon, and I generally expect we'll have mostly migrated to something else or have off planet robot mines or something.
 

easyrider

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The manufacturers really screwed up by going all in with large expensive EVs. The next wave will be affordable small EVs. Seeing that they will be developed as true EVs with the latest technology, they are guaranteed to be immensely better than my Kia Soul EV, which to me already hits the spot.

I agree. They really did screw up going with large expensive ev's instead of the smaller less costly ones. I think it's partly due to regulations and incentives as to why ev's are so large. Tesla had re-clasify their sedan to suv. Currently the Treasury is changing the definition of suv so more ev's can gain incentives, lol.

Bill
 

jp10558

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I didn’t read all 14 pages of this thread but wanted to share my experience.

In 2021 I bought a very cheap, 4 year old used Kia Soul EV. It looks like any other Soul but is all electric. Official range is 93 miles. I drive it every day and charge it off peak at night using a regular 110 outlet. Just like plugging in a large toaster. Where I live, off peak charging is less than 7 cents KWH. I’ve driven almost 30K miles with practically zero maintenance. With my 7 year old EV, I have seen essentially zero battery degradation. In the summer, I am well over 100 miles on the range. In the cold winter months, I am at a range of about 85 miles. I couldn’t have picked a better used vehicle. In my opinion, this is where EVs shine - a small city commuter.

The manufacturers really screwed up by going all in with large expensive EVs. The next wave will be affordable small EVs. Seeing that they will be developed as true EVs with the latest technology, they are guaranteed to be immensely better than my Kia Soul EV, which to me already hits the spot.

YMMV
You're correct - trying to drop in as a replacement to all current gas vehicles is a mistake - driven by understandable but perhaps misguided activism. They're not, and potentially never will be, a direct replacement to gas vehicles - they're going to have good and bad differences.

Even in the late 1800s we had EV horseless carriages that were good for running about the city. That said, now it still seems like long term it'd arguably be best to make cities etc less car centric in general, in which case smaller cars are a reasonable stop-gap, but as parking disappears, owning short distance cars will make less and less sense as the usability will go down as there are narrower and less car roads and destination parking and costs for that parking spot go up.
 
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