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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

jp10558

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Please save AM Radio, i listen too it alot, especially on my 2.5 hour drive up north after work on the weekends.
For those who are worried about reception and or like AM radio - I strongly urge you to look into podcasts. Way more "little voices" there, they download to your phone when you're at home on wifi or when you want to use data if you have it, and then play completely self contained. I have over 70 hours of podcasts at a time on my phone. I'm on Android and use the open source and free AntennaPod off of F-Droid, but there are free and paid apps of all sorts available. I think there must be millions of free podcasts, and some with premium / paid content out there via Patreon etc. Many radio shows also offer podcasts of their content too. So I think that's where AM radio is going.

For paid there's also Sirius, but I don't like their ongoing prices - they're like $250 a year now if you forget to call and argue with them in which case you can usually get it for $110, and worse, if you do cancel, then in a few months they'll ask you back for $60 for the first year. If it was $80 a year all the time, I'd probably still have it even though I drive a LOT less now. But yes, with streaming on most interstates for long trips and just saved mp3s or CDs, there's not much value to me anymore in Sirius.

On the EV thing... I'm excited for EVs and I think there's a real great market for it. I also don't see it making sense to spend massively more money, or take a huge hit to functionality to get one. So, I'm still waiting and seeing. I'm hoping in the next 4 years or so someone will have something out like my current Subaru Outback with the same functionality I was able to get in it (added skid plates, a hitch and 50/50 off road tires for off roading and seasonal roads) at a similar price to a new Outback. That said - my current concern is the car rusting out on me sitting most of the time - I only travel about once every 2 weeks on average now with WFH, vs every day in the before times. And now most of my trips are road trips for vacations now, so... I do think back in my commuting days (I hope to never return to) EV with a 70 mile range and Subaru level AWD and clearance would have been amazing - I'd never have needed to stop for "fuel" most of the time, just charge it like my cellphone. Now I do want a 300 mile range or so, what I might drive in a day with a charging stop in the middle to get me to 500 or so miles. Actually, I'd like to see more gas stations also have chargers, as we do stop for 20 minutes or so frequently for walking, bathroom, driver switching breaks, plus food etc. Topping up a little at a fast charge might really help there.

As to the environment, I'm pretty convinced that going EV or some sort of abstraction layer to the energy source is a really good idea. It's much easier to centralize energy production, and change between underlying sources when there's not billions of individual locations that need to be changed. I also think the simplified mechanics and less maintenance and stuff to break is going to be a huge deal over time. It's like compare a 1950s car to a 2015 car - Do you ever worry about a carburetor? Points? Do you change spark plugs every 15k miles? When is the last time you needed a "tune up" at all for a car? My dad told me stories about these, but I've also had visceral experience in tractors. a 1950s gas tractor is a right PITA to keep running and get started vs a 1970s diesel EFI system. Carburetors are the devil to having something just start right up with a turn of the key. I'll say everything about the old tractors being cheaper to buy, and cheaper to fix - but it's all moot when the dang thing isn't working more than it is working! I see it with small farm tools too - mowers, rototillers, weed eaters - the short battery run times kind of suck, but the electric ones pretty much just run. The pull start gas ones are very much we have ever fewer people who can even get the darn thing to start as we all get older (and I'm not that old!). I think really soon EVs are going to be the same thing - people will ask "you go get an oil change? Why do you want to waste your time? Spark Plugs? Transmission fluid? Engine filters? Gas Pumps? You wait in line and stand there to fill up your tank *when you're not on a trip* - you make a special trip? Wow old timer". Seriously it'll be like leaded gas or these old old tractors - more of a hobby.

However - I also think that the obvious thing to do that we all saw during COVID - without forcing any changes on what type of car you own was just making anything that can be WFH. This made such a big difference that it overwhelmed pollution improvements from EVs for the mid term even. We should be forcing companies to justify why and when people need to travel daily to their location IMO. Some 30% of the workforce could be travelling less at all, and therefore lowering energy usage, cost, and pollution. And we just proved we can do it for 2+ years at a time, with NO NEW TECH needed to be developed. We have it. We don't even have to DEPLOY the tech - it's there, we are using it RIGHT NOW. No one needs to buy something new, no one needs a tax incentive, no one needs an invention. So while better transportation options are of course welcome - we could also just stop doing so much "wasted" transportation at all.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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For those who are worried about reception and or like AM radio - I strongly urge you to look into podcasts. Way more "little voices" there, they download to your phone when you're at home on wifi or when you want to use data if you have it, and then play completely self contained. I have over 70 hours of podcasts at a time on my phone. I'm on Android and use the open source and free AntennaPod off of F-Droid, but there are free and paid apps of all sorts available. I think there must be millions of free podcasts, and some with premium / paid content out there via Patreon etc. Many radio shows also offer podcasts of their content too. So I think that's where AM radio is going.

For paid there's also Sirius, but I don't like their ongoing prices - they're like $250 a year now if you forget to call and argue with them in which case you can usually get it for $110, and worse, if you do cancel, then in a few months they'll ask you back for $60 for the first year. If it was $80 a year all the time, I'd probably still have it even though I drive a LOT less now. But yes, with streaming on most interstates for long trips and just saved mp3s or CDs, there's not much value to me anymore in Sirius.

On the EV thing... I'm excited for EVs and I think there's a real great market for it. I also don't see it making sense to spend massively more money, or take a huge hit to functionality to get one. So, I'm still waiting and seeing. I'm hoping in the next 4 years or so someone will have something out like my current Subaru Outback with the same functionality I was able to get in it (added skid plates, a hitch and 50/50 off road tires for off roading and seasonal roads) at a similar price to a new Outback. That said - my current concern is the car rusting out on me sitting most of the time - I only travel about once every 2 weeks on average now with WFH, vs every day in the before times. And now most of my trips are road trips for vacations now, so... I do think back in my commuting days (I hope to never return to) EV with a 70 mile range and Subaru level AWD and clearance would have been amazing - I'd never have needed to stop for "fuel" most of the time, just charge it like my cellphone. Now I do want a 300 mile range or so, what I might drive in a day with a charging stop in the middle to get me to 500 or so miles. Actually, I'd like to see more gas stations also have chargers, as we do stop for 20 minutes or so frequently for walking, bathroom, driver switching breaks, plus food etc. Topping up a little at a fast charge might really help there.

As to the environment, I'm pretty convinced that going EV or some sort of abstraction layer to the energy source is a really good idea. It's much easier to centralize energy production, and change between underlying sources when there's not billions of individual locations that need to be changed. I also think the simplified mechanics and less maintenance and stuff to break is going to be a huge deal over time. It's like compare a 1950s car to a 2015 car - Do you ever worry about a carburetor? Points? Do you change spark plugs every 15k miles? When is the last time you needed a "tune up" at all for a car? My dad told me stories about these, but I've also had visceral experience in tractors. a 1950s gas tractor is a right PITA to keep running and get started vs a 1970s diesel EFI system. Carburetors are the devil to having something just start right up with a turn of the key. I'll say everything about the old tractors being cheaper to buy, and cheaper to fix - but it's all moot when the dang thing isn't working more than it is working! I see it with small farm tools too - mowers, rototillers, weed eaters - the short battery run times kind of suck, but the electric ones pretty much just run. The pull start gas ones are very much we have ever fewer people who can even get the darn thing to start as we all get older (and I'm not that old!). I think really soon EVs are going to be the same thing - people will ask "you go get an oil change? Why do you want to waste your time? Spark Plugs? Transmission fluid? Engine filters? Gas Pumps? You wait in line and stand there to fill up your tank *when you're not on a trip* - you make a special trip? Wow old timer". Seriously it'll be like leaded gas or these old old tractors - more of a hobby.

However - I also think that the obvious thing to do that we all saw during COVID - without forcing any changes on what type of car you own was just making anything that can be WFH. This made such a big difference that it overwhelmed pollution improvements from EVs for the mid term even. We should be forcing companies to justify why and when people need to travel daily to their location IMO. Some 30% of the workforce could be travelling less at all, and therefore lowering energy usage, cost, and pollution. And we just proved we can do it for 2+ years at a time, with NO NEW TECH needed to be developed. We have it. We don't even have to DEPLOY the tech - it's there, we are using it RIGHT NOW. No one needs to buy something new, no one needs a tax incentive, no one needs an invention. So while better transportation options are of course welcome - we could also just stop doing so much "wasted" transportation at all.
How do you get current news, traffic,and weather on a podcast?
 

jp10558

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How do you get current news, traffic,and weather on a podcast?
Fair enough, I never have wanted any of that on the radio either. I thought people were more referring to the talk shows and NPR like stuff on AM radio. I don't want news while driving, and traffic I get via my Garmin or Wayze, and weather I also avoid while driving due to distractions, but would stop and check an app for that. I imagine you can get all the news / weather / traffic easily on FM radio though?
 

DrQ

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You can get many AM News/Weather/Traffic stations for major metro areas on the iHeart radio app on your phone and play it through Bluetooth.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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You can get many AM News/Weather/Traffic stations for major metro areas on the iHeart radio app on your phone and play it through Bluetooth.
That assumes I have a smart phone. I don't, by choice, merely a flip phone. And that is usually turned off, except at need. I dislike being tracked everywhere I go. Personal quirk, having been on 24/7 on-call for decades. That and being cheap. I pay less than $9/mo for my cell phone. For music, podcasts, and audio books, I have a SANSA Clip with my audio library on it. No internet link in the car. AM radio's longer range over FM handles, news, traffic and weather, just about anywhere in the CONUS.

Of course, I don't have cable; I cut the cord many years ago; and I don't stream. I buy video discs instead. My library exceeds 2000 discs nowadays. (Currently watching Pre-Code Hollywood movies. I can recommend William Powell's, Jewel Thief.)

I'm frugal, and I like my privacy. YMMV, and your budget may as well. . .
 

jp10558

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That assumes I have a smart phone. I don't, by choice, merely a flip phone. And that is usually turned off, except at need. I dislike being tracked everywhere I go. Personal quirk, having been on 24/7 on-call for decades. That and being cheap. I pay less than $9/mo for my cell phone. For music, podcasts, and audio books, I have a SANSA Clip with my audio library on it. No internet link in the car. AM radio's longer range over FM handles, news, traffic and weather, just about anywhere in the CONUS.

Of course, I don't have cable; I cut the cord many years ago; and I don't stream. I buy video discs instead. My library exceeds 2000 discs nowadays. (Currently watching Pre-Code Hollywood movies. I can recommend William Powell's, Jewel Thief.)

I'm frugal, and I like my privacy. YMMV, and your budget may as well. . .
Yea, I can't get away from the functionality of apps and not having to carry as many devices day to day anymore. But I do hate the tracking. From budgets, I pay under $20 a month for a smartphone plan via RedPocket Wireless using AT&T towers (and if you're paying more, you should really look into them). I also buy cheap unlocked android phones. You don't have to spend a bunch for a smartphone and service anymore if you do some online research into it.
 

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jp10558

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From the UK's largest circulation daily newspaper:

I mean, the point of electric cars is you don't go to a "power point" to charge it, you charge it at home. I also question if BP and Shell aren't incentivised to make their charging network as expensive as possible... I'd like to see what EV only companies are charging. Of course, I also don't understand people that pay for parking for their gas cars - it surely seems like you'd want to have a place to park your car if you're buying one. Probably if we switched the gas subsidies we have over to electric charging, you'd see a different story at the energy point.
 

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pedro47

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How much does it costs to charge an electric car to full capacity?
 

Passepartout

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How much does it costs to charge an electric car to full capacity?
There is no one answer. Too many variables. You can do the math, though. There is some guess work involved- like what is the capacity of your car's battery? It can vary from perhaps 10-12 kWh on the low end for a plug-in hybrid to over 100 kWh for a high end Tesla or even more for the likes of a Hummer or Tahoe EV. Then make an educated guess about how much it will take to top it off. So just pulling a number out of thin air, say your Tesla needs 50 kWh to top off. OK, then find the cost of your electricity. Ours is $0.10 each. Yours in Virginia might be $.25 or in Hawaii, perhaps $.40. You can often get a lower rate by charging at night or 'off peak' hours. So for you, a half-full Tesla might cost you something like $12.50 to top it off, or $25 for a 'full battery' that will carry you something like 250 miles. There are 'specials' and most people charge at home. Those SuperChargers cost a good bit more.

Jim
 

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How much does it costs to charge an electric car to full capacity?
How much does it cost to fill your car with gasoline?

It depends on:
  • How empty the tank is in the car.
  • The location of the filling station (ever fill a car near an airport?)
Same thing for an EV. For a home charger, assuming totally empty (not likely) xxx KWh X $0.xxxx/KWh (electric rate at time of charge) Commercial chargers charging at fast DC charging will cost an arm and a leg.
 

HitchHiker71

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How much does it costs to charge an electric car to full capacity?
#kw*kwh cost

Rates vary widely depending on region and utility. For us here’s an actual example of our daily consumption of about 25% of the battery pack - just a random Febuary date:

1716080585923.png


So $2.55 for 25% of the pack size - or about $10.20 if we were to theoretically charge from 0-100%, though the higher you charge the less efficient the session overall, so figure $11.00 to “fill the tank” so to speak. Though as others have said this never happens with an EV. You charge overnight each night - ABC - always be connected (to the charger).
 
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DaveNV

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Add in solar at your home and the price to charge an EV also changes.
 

Chrispee

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Our two tiered electricity rates here in BC Canada are 10.97 cents per kWh or 14.08 cents per kWh. So in tier 1 it costs me $5.49 CAD (roughly $3.95 USD) to fully charge my Tesla Model 3 from 0% to 100%. I guess you probably have to throw in a few cents for charging inefficiencies/losses? Rarely run my battery down to near 0% but the few times I have I think I was looking at around 360kms range on a full charge.

I do hit tier 2 for sure as my house is 100% electric.
 

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I won’t read the article, but this is absolutely true. A couple years ago I was walking my dog in our quiet neighborhood. I turned to cross the street and almost stepped into the path of an electric car. It would have been my fault, but I heard nothing! Even now, I have a hybrid, and as I was getting used to it, I hated that I couldn’t even tell it was running after turning the key.
 

pedro47

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I won’t read the article, but this is absolutely true. A couple years ago I was walking my dog in our quiet neighborhood. I turned to cross the street and almost stepped into the path of an electric car. It would have been my fault, but I heard nothing! Even now, I have a hybrid, and as I was getting used to it, I hated that I couldn’t even tell it was running after turning the key.
Silent is not golden when walking near an EV auto.
 

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I'm frugal, and I like my privacy. YMMV, and your budget may as well. . .

Ditto which is why I ditched my car 20 years ago. I'm cheap. My wife and I get by with 1. We don't drive that much. Too expensive.
 

jp10558

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I won’t read the article, but this is absolutely true. A couple years ago I was walking my dog in our quiet neighborhood. I turned to cross the street and almost stepped into the path of an electric car. It would have been my fault, but I heard nothing! Even now, I have a hybrid, and as I was getting used to it, I hated that I couldn’t even tell it was running after turning the key.
I guess this makes "look both ways" even more important. I am still getting used to stop/start in my new gas car - half the time I can't tell if it's "running" or not, which makes getting out of the car a bit more complicated.
 

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My wife drives a Lexus hybrid and that’s the closest we will ever come to an EV until they make an EV that sounds as good as my Mustang GT ICE. That is not gonna happen in my lifetime at least.
 

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My wife drives a Lexus hybrid and that’s the closest we will ever come to an EV until they make an EV that sounds as good as my Mustang GT ICE. That is not gonna happen in my lifetime at least.
Isn't no sound the best?
 

DaveNV

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