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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

TolmiePeak

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LOL. Only someone that hasn’t owned a true muscle car would ask a question like this. immediately brings back this old thought, ”you would have had to be there to understand”.
Not sure where you are from but the City of Seattle is cracking down on these noisy cars. They are suing people if they exceed noise limits. They looked the other way for awhile but when thousands of complaints started coming in they cracked down.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cncch6
 

Passepartout

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We LOVE the silent sudden acceleration of an EV. It's 'magic-carpet-y' to be that quick, that fast. Oh, sure, the rumble of a big-block can be intoxicating, but it's all about the 'show', not the 'GO'.
 

Carolinian

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One of the big issues on EV's is paying taxes to maintain and build roads. Funds for this come from fuel taxes, which EV's don't pay in many instances. EV's are also much heavier giving roads more wear and tear than normal cars. I know some of our legislators are considering how to best tax EV's for highway building and maintainance. Certainly, a steep annual fee for an EV with an instate registration is a good way to go but what about transient EV's from other states that pass through? With regular cars, they will likely be buying fuel in the state they pass through so they contribute, but EV's do not do that and so get a free ride on the state's highways.

One solution that makes sense is to do what some European countries have done, and require a tax sticker on the windshield to drive in that country. I have stopped at borders in my rental car to buy such stickers before entering. EV drivers could do that every time they cross a state border in order to help pay for that state's roads. They could also enter their license plate number in a computer system at the time they buy the sticker, so that could be entered into a data base for the highway patrol. That way, if a trooper is following an EV, he can bring up whether that car has a valid sticker in the state without having to pull him over to check.
 

Passepartout

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One of the big issues on EV's is paying taxes to maintain and build roads. Funds for this come from fuel taxes, which EV's don't pay in many instances. EV's are also much heavier giving roads more wear and tear than normal cars. I know some of our legislators are considering how to best tax EV's for highway building and maintainance. Certainly, a steep annual fee for an EV with an instate registration is a good way to go but what about transient EV's from other states that pass through? With regular cars, they will likely be buying fuel in the state they pass through so they contribute, but EV's do not do that and so get a free ride on the state's highways.

One solution that makes sense is to do what some European countries have done, and require a tax sticker on the windshield to drive in that country. I have stopped at borders in my rental car to buy such stickers before entering. EV drivers could do that every time they cross a state border in order to help pay for that state's roads. They could also enter their license plate number in a computer system at the time they buy the sticker, so that could be entered into a data base for the highway patrol. That way, if a trooper is following an EV, he can bring up whether that car has a valid sticker in the state without having to pull him over to check.
You're in the 'Dark Ages' as far as apportionment is concerned. Pre-1992, interstate trucking had what we called 'Bingo Plates' that were affixed to the front bumpers of each tractor. Trucking companies had well staffed- and paid- personnel to tally up how many miles each truck pulled a loaded trailer across the various states. Then they had to send funds to some states, and bills for additional road-use-taxes levied, that would be divided up among the states.
That all ended with the 'Surface Transportation Act of 1991'. Now, there is a large percentage of road-use tax that goes to the Federal Gov't, and some states charge a smaller amount to cover state highways and general road construction and maintenance.

What you're calling for turns the calendar back over 30 years. Owners of EVs pay a premium on their annual registration for road upkeep, and excise taxes paid on tires is higher on sizes used by heavier vehicles.

The loser is the sticker-printers, who lose business and contribute zilch to solving the issue.

Carolinian, when you choose an issue to push back several decades, please research the related history.

Jim
 

TolmiePeak

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One of the big issues on EV's is paying taxes to maintain and build roads. Funds for this come from fuel taxes, which EV's don't pay in many instances.

Agreed. That is why we need to eliminate fuel taxes as a way to fund roads. We need to move to mileage and time of day based charging system.
 

Carolinian

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You're in the 'Dark Ages' as far as apportionment is concerned. Pre-1992, interstate trucking had what we called 'Bingo Plates' that were affixed to the front bumpers of each tractor. Trucking companies had well staffed- and paid- personnel to tally up how many miles each truck pulled a loaded trailer across the various states. Then they had to send funds to some states, and bills for additional road-use-taxes levied, that would be divided up among the states.
That all ended with the 'Surface Transportation Act of 1991'. Now, there is a large percentage of road-use tax that goes to the Federal Gov't, and some states charge a smaller amount to cover state highways and general road construction and maintenance.

What you're calling for turns the calendar back over 30 years. Owners of EVs pay a premium on their annual registration for road upkeep, and excise taxes paid on tires is higher on sizes used by heavier vehicles.

The loser is the sticker-printers, who lose business and contribute zilch to solving the issue.

Carolinian, when you choose an issue to push back several decades, please research the related history.

Jim

Commercial long haul trucks and private automobiles are apples and oranges. Private individuals cannot keep track of all that trucking companies do. We are still left with the problem of EV's registered out of state not paying for wear and tear on our roads with their much heavier cars.
 

Passepartout

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Commercial long haul trucks and private automobiles are apples and oranges. Private individuals cannot keep track of all that trucking companies do. We are still left with the problem of EV's registered out of state not paying for wear and tear on our roads with their much heavier cars.
But they DO pay their road use as a surcharge along with their annual registration, AND they pay higher excise taxes on tires for their additional weight. State legislators set these amounts, so if you think it is not enough, take it up with the regulators and lawmakers.
 

Carolinian

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But they DO pay their road use as a surcharge along with their annual registration, AND they pay higher excise taxes on tires for their additional weight. State legislators set these amounts, so if you think it is not enough, take it up with the regulators and lawmakers.

Private car owners pay those taxes to the state where the car is registered and the state where they buy the tires, not the states they drive through with their heavier than normal cars wearing out the roads faster. That is an issue that needs to be dealt with.
 

Brett

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Private car owners pay those taxes to the state where the car is registered and the state where they buy the tires, not the states they drive through with their heavier than normal cars wearing out the roads faster. That is an issue that needs to be dealt with.



LOL

the "issue" of apportionment is not really an issue but heck, blame Hawaii Hybrid car owners driving in dixie land
and for that matter this thread ;)

And when all the oil is sucked out and the oil depletion allowance runs dry it's gonna be upsetting to _____
 
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DrQ

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Private car owners pay those taxes to the state where the car is registered and the state where they buy the tires, not the states they drive through with their heavier than normal cars wearing out the roads faster. That is an issue that needs to be dealt with.
Most EVs are used locally. Except for the NE, where state lines are closer and which tolls the bejezzus out of everyone, you are asking for a solution that is in search of a problem.
 

Carolinian

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Most EVs are used locally. Except for the NE, where state lines are closer and which tolls the bejezzus out of everyone, you are asking for a solution that is in search of a problem.
Some of my friends in the legislature think it is a problem and looking for a way to fix it.
 

TUGBrian

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if i drive thru another state in my ICE car but dont stop for gas....should I also be taxed?
 

DrQ

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Some of my friends in the legislature think it is a problem and looking for a way to fix it.
I bet that you will not like the solution.

The proposed solution that I've heard is to do away with the federal gasoline tax and replace it with GPS trackers to track mileage (Oregon had a pilot program). The overhead of administering this type of program is greater than 5%. In order for states/feds to receive the same revenue, the consumers will have to bear the cost.

Be careful for what you wish.
 

Passepartout

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Some of my friends in the legislature think it is a problem and looking for a way to fix it.
So howzabout those pesky bike lanes and pedestrian sidewalks? How do your friends propose getting them to pay for their construction and upkeep?
 

jp10558

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Commercial long haul trucks and private automobiles are apples and oranges. Private individuals cannot keep track of all that trucking companies do. We are still left with the problem of EV's registered out of state not paying for wear and tear on our roads with their much heavier cars.
Eventually it'll even out to most everyone having a "heavier car". Let's not forget all the gas vehicles people drive that are as heavy as most EVs right now. Full size SUVs, Super Duty trucks, probably even normal Pick Up trucks.

I think roads will have to be general fund as they mostly are now. We all pay taxes for things we don't use, or don't use as much as another person. We exchange this for getting to travel to the other states ourselves. We also get to have a society. I pay school taxes, yet don't use the schools (no kids).

So I think a tax based on location probably is the best that's doable, and you could charge businesses more if you wanted as they inspire more road use. I also think you could potentially tax delivery trucks too - those have established routes for instance.
 

easyrider

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This year there have been breakthroughs regarding the physics of magnetic levitation. It's looking like this tech could be the way things go regarding transportation. Someone somewhere is going to come up with something that doesn't involve ev or ice is the next stage, imo.

Bill


 

Carolinian

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I bet that you will not like the solution.

The proposed solution that I've heard is to do away with the federal gasoline tax and replace it with GPS trackers to track mileage (Oregon had a pilot program). The overhead of administering this type of program is greater than 5%. In order for states/feds to receive the same revenue, the consumers will have to bear the cost.

Be careful for what you wish.

Actually, the legislator most vocal on this is very pro-privacy, so I know he would reject that solution out of hand. He was one of lhe leaders of the effort in the NC House against putting license plate readers on highways due to the privacy implications
 
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DrQ

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Actually, the legislator most vocal on this is very pro-privacy, so I know he would reject that solution out of hand. He was one of lhe leaders of the effort in the NC House against putting license plate readers on highways due to the privacy implications
How are you planning to track movement between states? Sounds like a politician throwing red meat to da-masses. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

cp73

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I love my EV...Never had a better car and a more fun car to drive..Once you buy one you will never go back. Although my wife is holding out on getting one. The best excuse she can come up with is I just dont want one....So she won't be getting one soon.
I just read the other day that California is also doing a pilot program with test groups using a GPS tracker and people just reporting their annual mileage. Do you think they will drop the gas taxes and go to this only? I doubt it...Probably do both....The sad thing about taxing on miles driven is the people who it will hurt the most are the ones that can't afford it. I know my Gardners won't like it. The only time I had talked politics with my Gardner was during the last two years when he brought up the subject about it and said he was upset with the President over gas prices. They stopped driving their big truck and traded it for a more economical one.
 

TolmiePeak

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PULEEEZE! Don't you have a porch to paint, or something useful?
That is a legitimate issue. When we lived in Philly we would always go to Jersey to gas up and by booze. You didn't have to pump it yourself and everything was cheaper across that state line. Even with the bridge toll we saved money.
 

HitchHiker71

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Most EVs are used locally. Except for the NE, where state lines are closer and which tolls the bejezzus out of everyone, you are asking for a solution that is in search of a problem.

Locally states can capture revenue via higher registration fees and/or using an appropriate apportionment of annual mileage. Since 90% of all driving is local for the vast majority of residential vehicles.

In so far as gas tax equivalency, likely the simplest solution is to simply tax use of L3 supercharging stations within each state that are predominantly used when road tripping for BEVs in the same manner that gas taxes apply today.

We road tripped from our home state to Myrtle Beach for two weeks recently. About 550 miles each way. We used L3 SC stations 3 times each direction. One in VA and two in NC. Paying the same rate as the gas tax for each state would duplicate the current system in place. This allows the states to capture in transit monies to fund road repairs as needed. It’s really not rocket science.

The only complicating factor would be residential owners that use L3 SC stations for local “daily driving” type charging if they don’t have L1/L2 stations for home charging. In these cases I would surmise solutions within each state would be impemented to mitigate the additional taxation - perhaps getting a break on the local registration/mileage charges if the owner is paying higher L3 SC charging costs and gas proof of this fact - which isn’t hard since all of the data in question is readily available within the charging apps used.
 

dagger1

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