Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[ladawgfan]

When they did this last year, wasn't it a blanket policy at all resorts at all times, instead of a handful of resorts over major holidays? I think this time, the number of people complaining would be lower than it was last year. I could be wrong, but I think it's less likely they will backtrack this time.

Does anyone have access to the guest limitation policy they had last year? I must not have been affected by it because I don't remember the details. Also how long did it take them to reverse the policy change and what was done that convinced them to eliminate it?

 

[dgalati]

Fixed it.

When cancel and re book was eliminated it also helped certain owners but inconvenienced others. The main purpose of the elimination of cancel and re book was the abuse by owners renting reservations. It also helped availability for owners booking for personal use.

 

[dioxide45]

*Regarding reservations with a partial number of nights in the blackout period. What happens if a reservation extends into or out of a blackout period? For example, what if I have booked Jun 20-27 for my cousin but haven't yet put the guest certificate on their reservation. Only the last 2 nights are in the blackout period. Will the entire reservation be subject to cancellation when I add my cousin as the guest?

According to a poster on DISBoards, they had a reservation where a single day overlapped the blocked out dates and their reservation was cancelled. They had booked through VRBO.

 

[Richelle]

Earlier I told Richelle I'd post a list of all the questions/concerns/clarifications requested that I (as well as reviewing other comments here on TUG) had and she had someone she would try to run it by. Thanks for the reminder to get this done. Here's my list for you @Richelle (my questions, tried to capture other comments in this thread but stopped when things seemed to get too 'out there' for this topic):

*Please define 'subject to cancelation'.
- Will 100% of all reservations at the list resorts/dates be canceled for the remainder of year when a guest confirmation is added or will some reservations be honored?
- Will the cancelation happen immediately when the guest confirmation is added, is it automatic, or is it a manual process?
- If it doesn't happen immediately, is the reservation 'safe' or is it subject to cancelation up until the day of checkin?
*Regarding reservations with a partial number of nights in the blackout period. What happens if a reservation extends into or out of a blackout period? For example, what if I have booked Jun 20-27 for my cousin but haven't yet put the guest certificate on their reservation. Only the last 2 nights are in the blackout period. Will the entire reservation be subject to cancellation when I add my cousin as the guest?
*Are you making one-off exceptions to this policy? If so, please advise what kind of rules/exceptions we can expect to be followed and whom we should call for an exception? If and exception is granted, how will that be notated on the reservation?
* What if I have an existing reservation not in the blackout period, add a guest, and later add a night that then causes the entire reservation to extend into the blackout period. Does it now become 'subject to cancellation'?
* How does Travel and Leasure fit in? They have access and do list some Club Wyndham properties on their vacation package searches

* General comments.
- Extremely poor implementation. Announce 4 hours before it went into effect. Some lead time would have been appreciated. Will this continue to 2022? We need to know asap as people do plan in advance and this affects our planning (and for sure messed up some people in 2021)
- Not everyone got the email. The information is buried on the website. More visibility was needed. Communication failure, big time.
- Message about blackouts and cancellations is now on EVERY confirmation, owner or guest, for a resort that has some blackout dates. What a shame to alarm someone with an unaffected reservation of policy that does not affect them.
- I like the idea it will encourage use of other resorts and/or lower volume dates.
- Encouraged it appears Extra Holidays is following the same rules. Super important for all of us to see that commitment from Wyndham.
- Would be interesting to hear the why's of what resorts we picked, and why some many of us expected to be included were not
- Many owners have expressed and interest in some type of friends and family list. Is Wyndham considering anything in that area. Would have alleviated some of the major adverse affects for owners using their timeshare for friends and family. (Devil's advocate though, why is allowing friends and family okay but not renters - neither are paying maintenance fees or have skin in the game (purchase points/long-term commitment)
- Noting concerns by some that Wyndham needs to respect an owners RIGHT to allow others to use their shared interest. What say did the legal team have on this?
- It's been mentioned it would be nice if the system would alert us when booking or when a guest confirmation, the reservation may be canceled. Would be great if the system wouldn't let us add a guest confirmation and we could choose whether or not we want to cancel
- Most importantly - some advanced notice and transparency would have been greatly appreciated

If you can get some answers, especially to how it's going to be implemented aspects, they will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Sorry for the delay. I did not get a notification you tagged me, but I should have checked sooner.

I'm going to add the question "Will other resorts be added later?" Meaning, can they decide tomorrow to add Great smokies to the Fourth of July blackout list? None of my reservations were affected, but I added guest certificates to my Great smokies reservations over Fouth just in case. Waterparks are especially popular over summer break, so I am surprised that one didn't make the list. I will NOT be suggesting they do add it to the list.

I'm also going to add "What factors did you consider when deciding which resorts to add to the list?"

I haven't read past this thread, so others may have already suggested those questions. I'll collect any others I find.

 

[Sandi Bo]

According to a poster on DISBoards, they had a reservation where a single day overlapped the blocked out dates and their reservation was cancelled. They had booked through VRBO.

Did the DISBoard poster say who cancelled the reservation?
-- VRBO?
-- The owner?
-- Wyndham when the owner added the GC?

Personally, not taking any chances, I would assume any overlap would cause the reservation to be cancelled. Until we hear otherwise.

 

[bendadin]

Does anyone have access to the guest limitation policy they had last year? I must not have been affected by it because I don't remember the details. Also how long did it take them to reverse the policy change and what was done that convinced them to eliminate it?

I think that the resorts opened back up the first week of June with no GC allowed. That was rescinded by the third week of June.

 

[ladawgfan]

When cancel and re book was eliminated it also helped certain owners but inconvenienced others. The main purpose of the elimination of cancel and re book was the abuse by owners renting reservations. It also helped availability for owners booking for personal use.

I think that the resorts opened back up the first week of June with no GC allowed. That was rescinded by the third week of June.

Thanks, that makes more sense to me. I didn't get the connection between this year's guest reservation restriction & cancel & rebook from last year, because others had talked about last year's change being rescinded.

 

[Braindead]

I didn't get the connection between this year's guest reservation restriction & cancel & rebook from last year, because others had talked about last year's change being rescinded.

Last year limiting GCs had nothing to do with cancel-rebook, cancel-rebook change was about 3 years ago. Cancel-rebook is still possible but just not as easy as it ounce was

 

[VacayKat]

I remember the mega renters justifying their abuse this same way. Its the rentals that Wyndham is trying to limit which will help owners that are looking to book for personal use.

Here’s the thing.... Wyndham has absolutely no qualms about trying to sell you more points than you have vacation for, and those points are owned by you. Wyndham does not represent that they are against renting out extra points, and in fact suggest you do. So if you own the points and you book the room fair and square, whose business is it who stays in the room? Folks who reserve and rent a stay are no more cheating the system than someone who reserves it and shows up themselves. And hell, getting a VIP discount less than 60 days out is not going to prevent mom and pop from booking their stay at the 10 month mark because they aren't VIP. Anyone complaining they don't get the VIP discount and someone else does (remember they shelled out the cash for it) should either knock it off or pay to upgrade. I, for one, will never feel bad about renting out a stay here and there to cover some of the fantastically huge maintenance fees for the amount of points we own - especially since Wyndham LITERALLY told us to do it.
I’ll actually double down on this and cite the plethora of discounts available to most owners that basically make everyone’s ownership VIP for a lot of resorts... at this time I count 45 resorts with discounted points on bookings. For those of us who spent the cash - and a lot of it- for VIP, saying renting here and there is not good for those with fewer points because we take away their opportunity to vacation would only be true if the inventory didn't exist in the first place and Wyndham sold everyone points that weren’t linked to real inventory.

 

[dgalati]

Here’s the thing.... Wyndham has absolutely no qualms about trying to sell you more points than you have vacation for, and those points are owned by you. Wyndham does not represent that they are against renting out extra points, and in fact suggest you do. So if you own the points and you book the room fair and square, whose business is it who stays in the room? Folks who reserve and rent a stay are no more cheating the system than someone who reserves it and shows up themselves. And hell, getting a VIP discount less than 60 days out is not going to prevent mom and pop from booking their stay at the 10 month mark because they aren't VIP. Anyone complaining they don't get the VIP discount and someone else does (remember they shelled out the cash for it) should either knock it off or pay to upgrade. I, for one, will never feel bad about renting out a stay here and there to cover some of the fantastically huge maintenance fees for the amount of points we own - especially since Wyndham LITERALLY told us to do it.

Like I said earlier the mega-renter would justify their abuse of the system and cancel re book the same way. Sales also sold cancel and re book as a benefit. If you believe half of what sales told you thats half to much. As a non VIP I find last minute deals discouted 40% all the time. If you are flexible with travel needs you don't need to be a VIP to recieve the discounts.

 

[TheHolleys87]

Did the DISBoard poster say who cancelled the reservation?
-- VRBO?
-- The owner?
-- Wyndham when the owner added the GC?

Personally, not taking any chances, I would assume any overlap would cause the reservation to be cancelled. Until we hear otherwise.

I’m familiar with that thread too. It isn’t specified but sounds like Wyndham canceled the reservation. The poster had booked through Vacation Strategy, who offered them some alternatives but ultimately refunded their money.

 

[am1]

Nothing wrong with owners who rent. What is wrong is Wyndham limiting reservations to only owners. Everyone pays the monthly fees. Just because one is better at getting top reservations should not be held against them. Everyone has the opportunity to learn how.

 

[Eric B]

Nothing wrong with owners who rent. What is wrong is Wyndham limiting reservations to only owners. Everyone pays the monthly fees. Just because one is better at getting top reservations should not be held against them. Everyone has the opportunity to learn how.

Completely agree with that. It does annoy me that they seem to be trying to change the ground rules for what they've sold people over the years, but I'll get over it. I have rented out some stays, but typically not at peak demand resorts/dates, so this current thing doesn't bother me all that much.

The approach some other resort systems have taken of only allowing rentals of the particular resort, week, and unit type you own is one that makes a lot of sense to me. That's not what Wyndham sold, though; while it isn't explicitly listed as a right of ownership, it isn't banned either and Wyndham sales touted that ability in the sales process. The trouble is that they didn't address it directly in the underlying documents and have aggregated additional resorts that had their own systems and policies for rental of owned weeks, so they seem to be trying to herd cats on how things work for folks that occasionally rent their usages. IMHO, it would be a much better approach if they actually tried to compete with the renters (including the megarenters that bother a certain poster so much) by reducing the excessive brokerage fee they charge for extra holidays rentals.

 

[dgalati]

Completely agree with that. It does annoy me that they seem to be trying to change the ground rules for what they've sold people over the years, but I'll get over it. I have rented out some stays, but typically not at peak demand resorts/dates, so this current thing doesn't bother me all that much.

IMHO, it would be a much better approach if they actually tried to compete with the renters (including the megarenters that bother a certain poster so much) by reducing the excessive brokerage fee they charge for extra holidays rentals.

LOL! Add another low cost supplier into the mix to lower rental prices. Sounds like you are a agent of Wyndham with that kind of math. On a more serious note mega-renters don't bother me at all it is the opposite. I have traveled for less then paying maintenance fees renting from them. Mega renters and owners that were sold more points to rent and cover maintenance fees are my friends. Every sales meeting I sit in I ask why buy if you can rent for less? Some in sales are dumbfounded and give up while others try to convice that Wyndham math does add up. The real money is buying and selling the deeds. Skimming points along the way is the most cost effective but RCI points has also been very good to me. I also say thanks to Wyndham for using half truths and math that never adds up. This makes the cheap rentals and free upgrades possible.

 

[Mr. Vker]

My mother in law is a top tier member of Wyndam (I think she calls it VIP). I'm not sure as we are MVC members. She booked a long weekend (labor day) for my daughter-her granddaughter. This email was delivered today. Very frustrating-glad they hadn't booked travel.

Dear XXX Family, We recently shared that we are working to prioritize owner reservations to ensure they have the greatest opportunity to vacation, which means we are limiting non-owner reservations at select resorts for peak holiday travel dates. Visit our website for more information on prioritizing owner reservations. Unfortunately, since the owner who booked your reservation added your guest confirmation after March 15, 2021, it will be canceled. The reservation details include: Confirmation Number: XXXXX Destination: Club Wyndham Panama City Beach Your upcoming reservation will be canceled automatically — you do not need to take any action — and the points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest certificate(s) will be returned to the account within 5-7 business days. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope you’ll consider visiting one of the other 200+ resorts that are accepting guest reservations during peak holiday travel dates. Thank you for your interest in vacationing with Club Wyndham. We hope to see you on vacation soon. Sincerely, Club Wyndham Owner Service

 

[Richelle]

My mother in law is a top tier member of Wyndam (I think she calls it VIP). I'm not sure as we are MVC members. She booked a long weekend (labor day) for my daughter-her granddaughter. This email was delivered today. Very frustrating-glad they hadn't booked travel.

VIP is the program. The levels are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Founders.

With that said, ask your mother-in-law to call Wyndham. They are assisting owners. I cannot promise anything,, and don't have anything official, but I saw a couple of people on Facebook who said they got exceptions for family.

 

[Mr. Vker]

VIP is the program. The levels are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Founders.

With that said, ask your mother-in-law to call Wyndham. They are assisting owners. I cannot promise anything,, and don't have anything official, but I saw a couple of people on Facebook who said they got exceptions for family.

THANKS! Will do...she's platinum I just asked. They are calling now. They actually have the same address and everything. My MIL is 83 and just can't travel now-or she'd be going!

 

[HitchHiker71]

Skimming points along the way is the most cost effective but RCI points has also been very good to me.

Glad to see you finally acknowledging the actual skimming loophole you’ve been using all along but conveniently never choose to call out - while repeatedly attempting to label VIP owners using resale points with VIP benefits as a loophole despite the fact that it isn’t an actual loophole. Seems a bit disingenuous to me, but perhaps I’m alone in this assessment?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eric B]

Glad to see you finally acknowledging the actual skimming loophole you’ve been using all along but conveniently never choose to call out - while repeatedly attempting to label VIP owners using resale points with VIP benefits as a loophole despite the fact that it isn’t an actual loophole. Seems a bit disingenuous to me, but perhaps I’m alone in this assessment?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope.

 

[Richelle]

Glad to see you finally acknowledging the actual skimming loophole you’ve been using all along but conveniently never choose to call out - while repeatedly attempting to label VIP owners using resale points with VIP benefits as a loophole despite the fact that it isn’t an actual loophole. Seems a bit disingenuous to me, but perhaps I’m alone in this assessment?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would probably say "less than transparent", but no, you're not alone. lol

 

[Mr. Vker]

VIP is the program. The levels are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Founders.

With that said, ask your mother-in-law to call Wyndham. They are assisting owners. I cannot promise anything,, and don't have anything official, but I saw a couple of people on Facebook who said they got exceptions for family.

They did not budge. Reservation canceled.

 

[Richelle]

THANKS! Will do...she's platinum I just asked. They are calling now. They actually have the same address and everything. My MIL is 83 and just can't travel now-or she'd be going!

Have you considered getting your name added to the account so you can put the reservations under your name? It would mean you would be responsible for the maintenance fees if your MIL cannot pay them, but if you plan on taking it over anyway, now might be a good time. Wyndham has a program that used to be called Tribute. That was meant for owners looking to transfer their ownership to a family member. It was free to them. They may assist with adding your name instead of a complete transfer since she can still travel occasionally, just not as much to utilize all her ownership. The program is now part of Wyndham Certified exit. If they cannot help you, LT transfers are cheap and they can help. You would need to pay $299 to Wyndham, plus closing costs which include deed recording. They would only need to add your name to your deed along with your MIL. I would suggest your wife's be on it too. It would give you an extra owner name you can book under. She would have to be present at check-in to check into that second unit. If she travels with you, that won't be a big deal.

 

[Richelle]

They did not budge. Reservation canceled.

Did they offer any kind of assistance? I was told they were offering assistance but they didn't say what kind of assistance. For all I know, they are offering assistance with finding other places they can go.

 

[dgalati]

Glad to see you finally acknowledging the actual skimming loophole you’ve been using all along but conveniently never choose to call out - while repeatedly attempting to label VIP owners using resale points with VIP benefits as a loophole despite the fact that it isn’t an actual loophole. Seems a bit disingenuous to me, but perhaps I’m alone in this assessment?

I would probably say "less than transparent", but no, you're not alone. lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The so called loophole was closed. I was considered a trader of deeds no different then what Wyndham does when they buy third party or even taking back free inventory with Ovations.. I bought up to 1 million points a year, skimmed the points then sold the deeds( more often gave away) without current use year points. Some people buy up to VIP, some make use of the PIC program and then there are a few that bottom feed and make use of the discounts and free upgrades for cheap rentals. I never rented a point, used all my points for personal travel, preferred not to be burdened with maintenance fees and was able to travel for close to free with this strategy. I'm back as a owner and a new strategy for use. I also have bought into Worldmark and find it to be a great fit with bonus time cheaper then paying maintenance fees without adding a HK fee. So far so good until TNFC.

 

[Mr. Vker]

Did they offer any kind of assistance? I was told they were offering assistance but they didn't say what kind of assistance. For all I know, they are offering assistance with finding other places they can go.

They offered the weekend before and after. My son in law has very limited PTO. That's why they wanted Labor Day. Moving is not a good option. They will look for other things.