Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[Richelle]

I take it to mean that if a certain condition applies, in this case a reservation made after March 15, it will be canceled.

How will this work in practice? You would guess the computer system would just remove that option and put up some kind of warning note.

It also may only be a bit subjectively enforced. If some million-point owner calls up and gives a sob story about needing a guest reservation for his mother who is checking into WBC tomorrow, will they not add it? Failing to do so would be bad PR.

On the other hand, if power renter calls up and needs 25 guest reservations for their WBC Fourth of July ebay listings, it probably won't fly.

From the announcement on the webpage:


If you book a guest reservation after March 15, you’ll be notified of the reservation cancellation via email. All points, housekeeping credits, reservations transactions, and guest confirmations will be returned within 5-7 business days of the cancellation.

It does not warn you when you try to add one. They definitely should.

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tschwa2]

It means that can cancel the reservation with the guest cert added after March 15 (whether new reservation or old reservation) anytime up until check in or not. I don't know whether it is a manual process where someone is sent the list and then decide each day whether to cancel or not or if it is a computer automatic process that cancels everything with 24 hrs or a guest cert be added.

 

[dgalati]

It means that can cancel the reservation with the guest cert added after March 15 (whether new reservation or old reservation) anytime up until check in or not. I don't know whether it is a manual process where someone is sent the list and then decide each day whether to cancel or not or if it is a computer automatic process that cancels everything with 24 hrs or a guest cert be added.

More then likely computer generated. We all know Wyndham's IT upgrades and how they work out.

 

[dgalati]

From the announcement on the webpage:


If you book a guest reservation after March 15, you’ll be notified of the reservation cancellation via email. All points, housekeeping credits, reservations transactions, and guest confirmations will be returned within 5-7 business days of the cancellation.

It does not warn you when you try to add one. They definitely should.

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Returning the GC is a gift IMHO. Hopefully Wyndham adds a warning to prevent owners from adding the GC.

 

[tschwa2]

Will both the Gift certificate and points be returned to account? Or will owners be penalized a GC for trying to beat the system?

The email said both guest cert and points will be returned. It looks like the only penalty will be the cancellation. Since it isn't noted when you make the reservation and the system allows you to make the reservation and add the guest cert then one doesn't have to assume they are trying to beat the system, they may not be aware of the rule- not everyone reads their emails or forgot about it.

 

[dgalati]

The email said both guest cert and points will be returned. It looks like the only penalty will be the cancellation. Since it isn't noted when you make the reservation and the system allows you to make the reservation and add the guest cert then one doesn't have to assume they are trying to beat the system, they may not be aware of the rule- not everyone reads their emails or forgot about it.

Edited found info on Richelle's post.

 

[VacayKat]

Alright, I followed the link above to the page citing this, but I never received an email, there was never a popup or any notification of that page Richelle linked to when I logged in. Literally had I not been on this site I’d still be clueless about it. Wyndham screwed up on this (big surprise)... I wonder how many others had no notification. The website updated have been horrific again as well.

 

[dgalati]

With this new temporary (wink wink) policy in play has anyone calculated how many more years will it take for the sunk cost to be recouped ?

 

[am1]

If it was me I would sue. I would find some one or a few who knows where the bodies are. If i had reservations inside 15 days I would add a guest name to get the points refunded. If thats still the cancellation policy. Devalues the ownership more then it values it.

 

[CO skier]

If it was me I would sue.

Did you sue, when it was you?

Easy to spend someone else's money.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Alright, I followed the link above to the page citing this, but I never received an email, there was never a popup or any notification of that page Richelle linked to when I logged in. Literally had I not been on this site I’d still be clueless about it. Wyndham screwed up on this (big surprise)... I wonder how many others had no notification. The website updated have been horrific again as well.

So the email subject was: Fwd: Spring Is The Perfect Time To Get Back On Vacation
Easy to go to the bit bucket?
And in it a link to the important details (the limiting access by non-owners): One way we are prioritizing owner reservations is by temporarily limiting access by non-owners at a few of your favorite Club Wyndham locations for the most sought-after dates.

Pretty low key, I'll just leave this right here and see if anyone notices?

If you book a reservation now, at an affected resort (or add a guest confirmation) it does have verbiage warning you (even if your dates are not in the affected range. For example, this is on Bonnet Creek's confirmations now:
Any guest reservation made or added after March 15, 2021, for travel on May 28 – June 2, June 25 – July 9, Nov. 19 – 27 & Dec. 17 – Jan. 2, 2022, will be subject to cancellation and notified via email. Points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest confirmation(s) will be returned within 5-7 business days of cancellation.

I am surprised they would try this again, as it bombed last time. Owners screamed, they retracted. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. As always, lol.

 

[Richelle]

So the email subject was: Fwd: Spring Is The Perfect Time To Get Back On Vacation
Easy to go to the bit bucket?
And in it a link to the important details (the limiting access by non-owners): One way we are prioritizing owner reservations is by temporarily limiting access by non-owners at a few of your favorite Club Wyndham locations for the most sought-after dates.

Pretty low key, I'll just leave this right here and see if anyone notices?

If you book a reservation now, at an affected resort (or add a guest confirmation) it does have verbiage warning you (even if your dates are not in the affected range. For example, this is on Bonnet Creek's confirmations now:
Any guest reservation made or added after March 15, 2021, for travel on May 28 – June 2, June 25 – July 9, Nov. 19 – 27 & Dec. 17 – Jan. 2, 2022, will be subject to cancellation and notified via email. Points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest confirmation(s) will be returned within 5-7 business days of cancellation.

I am surprised they would try this again, as it bombed last time. Owners screamed, they retracted. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. As always, lol.

When they did this last year, wasn't it a blanket policy at all resorts at all times, instead of a handful of resorts over major holidays? I think this time, the number of people complaining would be lower than it was last year. I could be wrong, but I think it's less likely they will backtrack this time.

 

[Richelle]

If it was me I would sue. I would find some one or a few who knows where the bodies are. If i had reservations inside 15 days I would add a guest name to get the points refunded. If thats still the cancellation policy. Devalues the ownership more then it values it.

If it's at an affected resort, sure, you could do that. This is only at a handful of resorts and limited to specific dates. It certainly devalues ownership for someone who profits from renting timeshares. I am sure major holidays are a large chunk of their revenue. This is probably hitting them hard. For the owner who sees rentals getting kicked out, it adds value. Even if they still don't get the room they want, they know some random stranger off the street who doesn't pay maintenance fees, is also not getting the room. If I was an owner trying to offset my fees and had to refund the money, I would be a bit more than annoyed. However, I wouldn't be mad at Wyndham for putting the owner ahead of someone who didn't make the financial commitment and risk like the owners do. But maybe that's just me. There are plenty of people on the Facebook sites who are applauding the decision. The people that are making the most noise, are the people who have made a business of renting timeshares. People are calling them out on it too.

 

[josegm888]

One of the rights of owning real property is the right to allow others a right to use, which means the right to rent your ownership. So for those who complain about people who rent, they are obviously not educated enough to understand that this is a right an owner has when they purchase a timeshare, regardless if you bought from a developer or resale. I truly believe Wyndham is infringing on that right.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roger830]

One of the rights of owning real property is the right to allow others a right to use, which means the right to rent your ownership.

I would agree that this is true for owners that are deeded a specific week and unit. I don't see Wyndham infringing on those rights, just those of club members.

 

[josegm888]

I would agree that this is true for owners that are deeded a specific week and unit. I don't see Wyndham infringing on those rights, just those of club members.

Exactly. All owners other than CWA have a deeded interest/ownership regardless if that deeded interest is turned into points. You’re assigned a unit and ownership with that deed. With that said, an owner should have the right to use/allow other to use those points/interest how she/he pleases, obviously within the rules of owning real property.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

All owners other than CWA have a deeded interest/ownership regardless if that deeded interest is turned into points. You’re assigned a unit and ownership with that deed. With that said, an owner should have the right to use those points/interest how he pleases, obviously within the rules of owning real property.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Timeshares are different than your house or other real property. What you are legally entitled to, is different between the two. With a home, if you're in an HOA, you bound by HOA rules which usually only dictate what you can do on the outside. Timeshare HOAs, dictate a lot of what you can and cannot do inside and outside your timeshare. Those rules you are obligated to abide by. I'd have to dig out the bylaws of National Habor, but I do not remember seeing a rule about guests. Whether you could or could not bring them. If it does not explicitly says you are entitled to bring guests, and there is nothing in your contract or deed that entitles you to bring guests, you do not have the "right" to bring a guest. This isn't a house that you own outright. It's a shared real property. They (Wyndham or the HOA) can say who you can bring, and who you cannot bring, If the bylaws say you can bring a guest, then you can probably argue that one. However, you can only argue it for your home resort, not other resorts.

 

[josegm888]

Timeshares are different than your house or other real property. What you are legally entitled to, is different between the two. With a home, if you're in an HOA, you bound by HOA rules which usually only dictate what you can do on the outside. Timeshare HOAs, dictate a lot of what you can and cannot do inside and outside your timeshare. Those rules you are obligated to abide by. I'd have to dig out the bylaws of National Habor, but I do not remember seeing a rule about guests. Whether you could or could not bring them. If it does not explicitly says you are entitled to bring guests, and there is nothing in your contract or deed that entitles you to bring guests, you do not have the "right" to bring a guest. This isn't a house that you own outright. It's a shared real property. They (Wyndham or the HOA) can say who you can bring, and who you cannot bring, If the bylaws say you can bring a guest, then you can probably argue that one. However, you can only argue it for your home resort, not other resorts.

Totally understandable, but I’m mostly talking about home resort ownership and usage. Yes HOA dictates rules but in principle Wyndham deeds are fee simple ownership which by limiting how owners allow others to use their interest and ownership infringes on that right. Some of those restrictions if taken to court might not be enforceable especially by Florida law.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

Totally understandable, but I’m mostly talking about home resort ownership and usage. Yes HOA dictates rules but in principle Wyndham deeds are fee simple ownership which by limiting how owners allow others to use their interest and ownership infringes on that right. Some of those restrictions if taken to court might not be enforceable especially by Florida law.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Limiting how? What specific "rights" are they infringing? You're making a general statement without having any details on what specific law they are violating. Having guests at a "shared" property is not a right unless it's dictated by the HOA or your contract. And even then, only at your home resorts.

 

[josegm888]

Limiting how? What specific "rights" are they infringing? You're making a general statement without having any details on what specific law they are violating. Having guests at a "shared" property is not a right unless it's dictated by the HOA or your contract. And even then, only at your home resorts.

Again, they’re are limiting owners the full right to let others use their shared interest based on what they own. Wyndham owners have the full RIGHT to allow others to use their shared interest. Thats a basic right of owning any type of real property unless there’s a special restriction in your deed that says otherwise which there isn’t. If there was a restriction Wyndham themselves wouldn’t rent owners points to non-owners. My point is that this is debatable in court. It’s very hypocritical for Wyndham to be able to rent owners points to non-owners how they please but limit owners to rent points on their own for specific dates and resorts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chapjim]

There was a line in parentheses at the end of what you were quoting.

Any guest reservations made after March 15, 2021, at the resorts listed below during the select peak travel periods will be subject to cancellation (including guests added to an existing reservation after March 15)

Hopefully it answers your question. It goes on to say:

If you book a guest reservation after March 15, you’ll be notified of the reservation cancellation via email. All points, housekeeping credits, reservations transactions, and guest confirmations will be returned within 5-7 business days of the cancellation.


I did not get the email, so maybe the wording is different on it. I’m getting this from the announcement on the webpage.

Priority Reservations for Club Wyndham Owners

Club Wyndham owners get priority access to book timeshare vacations. Explore resort availability and learn more about this exclusive perk to timeshare owners.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think part of the question was whether cancellation is a certainty or just a possibility. In most contexts, "subject to" would mean cancellation is a possibility, not a certainty. Who knows what it means in Wyndham-speak.

A subset is when might this happen -- will the owner get the email almost immediately after entering the guest or at some point between booking and check-in. When an owner puts a guest on one of the peak period reservations, will a red box pop up like it does for overlapping reservations? That would be better than some uncertain email.

I already have frequent renters ask if this means their annual Thanksgiving trek to Bonnet Creek is not going to happen. I guess it does.

 

[Richelle]

Again, they’re are limiting owners the full right to let others use their shared interest based on what they own. Wyndham owners have the full RIGHT to allow others to use their shared interest. Thats a basic right of owning any type of real property unless there’s a special restriction in your deed that says otherwise which there isn’t. If there was a restriction Wyndham themselves wouldn’t rent owners points to non-owners. My point is that this is debatable in court. It’s very hypocritical for Wyndham to be able to rent owners points to non-owners how they please but limit owners to rent points on their own for specific dates and resorts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I take it you missed the part where Wyndham is NOT renting those dates? Check extra holidays for those specific dates. Spoiler alert, Wyndham is not renting anything during those dates.

As I said before, your only "right" might be to have a guest at your HOME resort. You have no guest "right" at any resort you do not own. Also, just because you own points at National Harbor, doesn't mean you have a "right" to use them at Bonnet creek. The reason you're able to do that is because of the exchange system. You have no "right" to use that system. If you're paying for it, and they decide they don't want you to use it, they just terminate you and stop charging you the program fee. Then there would be no exchanging. Not only would you be limited to using your points at your home resort, but you also couldn't even use the booking system to make reservations. You'd have to work that out with the resort. Oh, and you'd still be on the hook for the maintenance fees to the resort. You'd have to pay the resort directly. You also wouldn't be able to use GC. I have no idea what your home resort would do, but I'm guessing they would require you to be there at check-in.

You seem to think just because you own "real" property, you have the same rights as you do with your "home" real property. If they were the same, you could show up any time during prime season and demand to be given a room. It's your "real property", why should you have to make a reservation? You should be able to do whatever you want because you own it. Not really. You only own part of it. It's common sense that "shared" real property and "private" real property has entirely different rules and laws. With shared property, everyone has to follow set rules that allow everyone equal opportunity to enjoy their ownership. You don't need that with private property, Bringing friends and booking multiple rooms is not making it equal. That's one reason why they don't allow owners to use other points from other resorts to book bigger rooms. You can book what you own in the ARP period and nothing more during that time period. When you want to point out a law that says renting or allowing others to use your timeshare is a "right" let me know. Otherwise, you're just providing an uninformed opinion, not fact.

Let me know how the lawsuit goes. I'm thinking if someone could overrule this, we would have figured that out a long time ago. Timeshares have been around for about 50 years I believe. At the very least, they would have figured it out last year when they did the same thing, and they wouldn't have done it again this year.

 

[josegm888]

I take it you missed the part where Wyndham is NOT renting those dates? Check extra holidays for those specific dates. Spoiler alert, Wyndham is not renting anything during those dates.

As I said before, your only "right" might be to have a guest at your HOME resort. You have no guest "right" at any resort you do not own. Also, just because you own points at National Harbor, doesn't mean you have a "right" to use them at Bonnet creek. The reason you're able to do that is because of the exchange system. You have no "right" to use that system. If you're paying for it, and they decide they don't want you to use it, they just terminate you and stop charging you the program fee. Then there would be no exchanging. Not only would you be limited to using your points at your home resort, but you also couldn't even use the booking system to make reservations. You'd have to work that out with the resort. Oh, and you'd still be on the hook for the maintenance fees to the resort. You'd have to pay the resort directly. You also wouldn't be able to use GC. I have no idea what your home resort would do, but I'm guessing they would require you to be there at check-in.

You seem to think just because you own "real" property, you have the same rights as you do with your "home" real property. If they were the same, you could show up any time during prime season and demand to be given a room. It's your "real property", why should you have to make a reservation? You should be able to do whatever you want because you own it. Not really. You only own part of it. It's common sense that "shared" real property and "private" real property has entirely different rules and laws. With shared property, everyone has to follow set rules that allow everyone equal opportunity to enjoy their ownership. You don't need that with private property, Bringing friends and booking multiple rooms is not making it equal. That's one reason why they don't allow owners to use other points from other resorts to book bigger rooms. You can book what you own in the ARP period and nothing more during that time period. When you want to point out a law that says renting or allowing others to use your timeshare is a "right" let me know. Otherwise, you're just providing an uninformed opinion, not fact.

Let me know how the lawsuit goes. I'm thinking if someone could overrule this, we would have figured that out a long time ago. Timeshares have been around for about 50 years I believe. At the very least, they would have figured it out last year when they did the same thing, and they wouldn't have done it again this year.

As I mentioned earlier, I can care less on resorts I don’t own. I’m talking about the ones I do own. Not sure where in any of my posts I talked about non-deeded resorts .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

As I mentioned earlier, I can care less on resorts I don’t own. I’m talking about the ones I do own. Not sure where in any of my posts I talked about non-deeded resorts .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was making a point about how little control you actually have overall. When it comes to timeshares, the developers have the most control. They purposely set it up that way. The question still remains, where is it in writing that you have a "right" to bring a guest to your "shared" real property? Just because you have a deed, doesn't give you carte blanche to do what you want because it's shared property. You partly own it with many other owners who also don't have carte blanche.

If Wyndham wasn't allowed to do this, they would have figured that out last year when they put in a similar policy. They wouldn't have done it again this year. They also have an army of lawyers telling them what they can and cannot get away with. It's one thing to play dumb when it comes to sales practices. It's a whole another thing to make a public announcement in writing. If they announced that they were doing something that was illegal, they would be opening themselves up to a bunch of slam dunk lawsuits. If they do backtrack on this policy, it won't likely have anything to do with legality. It would be more to please the owners. The owners on Facebook for the most part like the idea. The ones making the most noise are the ones who profit from their timeshare. Since they are breaking the "not for commercial" use rule, they won't have a leg to stand on in court. That doesn't leave many people left who'd be willing to take on that long and expensive battle,.

 

[Richelle]

I think part of the question was whether cancellation is a certainty or just a possibility. In most contexts, "subject to" would mean cancellation is a possibility, not a certainty. Who knows what it means in Wyndham-speak.

A subset is when might this happen -- will the owner get the email almost immediately after entering the guest or at some point between booking and check-in. When an owner puts a guest on one of the peak period reservations, will a red box pop up like it does for overlapping reservations? That would be better than some uncertain email.

I already have frequent renters ask if this means their annual Thanksgiving trek to Bonnet Creek is not going to happen. I guess it does.

If their resorts are on this list for those holidays, yes. I wouldn't count on Wyndham canceling it right away. It could happen immediately, or the day before check-in. Does it matter when it gets canceled or if it might get canceled? It's still too risky to rent that week for both the buyer and seller.