Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[Sandi Bo]

But didn't they get rid of the super mega renters two years ago? And yet what changed? And they got rid of cancel/rebook. People are still whining because there are no rooms. Because they aren't willing to put any time into finding things. And likely continuing to struggle with the latest system (since implementation of Voyager). How many requests have we've seen for better search capabilities, for show me ANYTHING I can book - I want to go, don't care where. What about that next available feature that was taken away over 4 years ago. And how about bringing back 1 night stays. If they really wanted to make the current owner base happy, they'd be looking at those things. My money's on that same subset of owners whining today will be whining next year and the year after. And Wyndham rentals will be up. Sorry, creating slack in the inventory system after the past year and a half of covid, and everyone thinking how nice Wyndham was being to let us roll points forward (which btw meant nothing to a VIP platinum or founder)?

It's just crazy to me all the speculation by so many. Why can't Wyndham just be straight with us? What is a megarenter? What criteria are they using to determine commercial renting? Renting is renting, people justify what works for them. Wyndham needs to say something like - as many guest confirmations as you are entitled to or a percentage of your ownership (base it on points not GC's). It's just crazy all the speculation - because Wyndham doesn't ever seem to be straight forward and honest. Why not place limitations on resale, how many points can be added to an account? How many times have people asked how many contracts can be in an account - and no one really knows. Why is that so hard? Wyndham makes the timeshare business dirty.

 

[dgalati]

It's just crazy to me all the speculation by so many. Why can't Wyndham just be straight with us? What is a megarenter? What criteria are they using to determine commercial renting? Renting is renting, people justify what works for them. Wyndham needs to say something like - as many guest confirmations as you are entitled to or a percentage of your ownership (base it on points not GC's). It's just crazy all the speculation - because Wyndham doesn't ever seem to be straight forward and honest. Why not place limitations on resale, how many points can be added to an account? How many times have people asked how many contracts can be in an account - and no one really knows. Why is that so hard? Wyndham makes the timeshare business dirty.

Its a data base that can be created if all owners that recieved the violation letter would post about their situation. No shame intended. These are the questions many owners that rent want answers to. Seems to be a reasonable request but it has offended some that don't want to talk about it or worse yet pretend if it is ignored it may not effect their rental strategy.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Its a data base that can be created if all owners that recieved the violation letter would post about their situation. No shame intended. These are the questions many owners that rent want answers to. Seems to be a reasonable request but it has offended some that don't want to talk about it or worse yet pretend if it is ignored it may not effect their rental strategy.

We've been talking about this for years, for as long as I've been around Wyndham. Why can't Wyndham be straightforward about it and tell us? Why should we create a database and try and figure it out? They're the ones identifying commercial users - why can't they say how? If they'd explain what's acceptable and what's not, people could follow the rules. Hard to follow the rules when we're all guessing what they are.

 

[troy12n]

Surely most of us have been at some sort of "update" where they try to use the idea of buying more points and renting them to cover MF. It's happened to me twice, once, the hardest sell attempt was at Canterbury in 2019.

But the elephant in the room is that these sales pitches are in the couple hundred thousand points range. And the intent is to make a couple, a few rentals a year tops. Wyndham doesn't care about these people.

Not somewhere in the neighborhood of millions of points and 150 GC's, like the person crying on Facebook did. They lost all sympathy and credibility in my eyes when that revelation was made. We all lost out last year because of COVID, just because you were sitting on 1.5 million points and moved all of them forward doesn't give you any more rights to book than the rest of us.

That's why a lot of the comments from the peanut gallery here nothing but stirring the pot for their own personal vendettas

 

[bnoble]

if it's not already obvious - this subset of owners is no longer a priority to Wyndham moving forward.

That's been pretty clear for a long time now---dating back to the days when they stopped the ability to transfer points between accounts. It might go back even farther, but that's near when I became an owner.

 

[am1]

Surely most of us have been at some sort of "update" where they try to use the idea of buying more points and renting them to cover MF. It's happened to me twice, once, the hardest sell attempt was at Canterbury in 2019.

But the elephant in the room is that these sales pitches are in the couple hundred thousand points range. And the intent is to make a couple, a few rentals a year tops. Wyndham doesn't care about these people.

Not somewhere in the neighborhood of millions of points and 150 GC's, like the person crying on Facebook did. They lost all sympathy and credibility in my eyes when that revelation was made. We all lost out last year because of COVID, just because you were sitting on 1.5 million points and moved all of them forward doesn't give you any more rights to book than the rest of us.

That's why a lot of the comments from the peanut gallery here nothing but stirring the pot for their own personal vendettas

No but hopefully the same rights as the rest of you.

 

[chapjim]

I think the 2020-2021 ship has sailed….

No wonder I don't have any points left!

 

[Lisa P]

Sorry, creating slack in the inventory system after the past year and a half of covid...

"Creating slack"... this made me wonder...
...remember when there was a big issue about multiple popular resorts being overbooked and resorts unable to "find" reservations in the computer system??? Wouldn't it be weird if another repeat of overbooking errors was discovered and Wyndham decided to strip away rentals just so they wouldn't have to turn away all those overbooked owners? I have absolutely NO evidence of this. It's just always bothered me that the policy was initiated with so little advance notice as though the need was urgent. Just thinkin' out loud here.

If they'd explain what's acceptable and what's not, people could follow the rules.

You're a kind and trusting soul, aren't you, thinking the best of people?
Sadly, if they explain with too many details, the more neatly they pave the pathway to loopholes for those who want to skirt the rules.

 

[Sandi Bo]

You're a kind and trusting soul, aren't you, thinking the best of people?
Sadly, if they explain with too many details, the more neatly they pave the pathway to loopholes for those who want to skirt the rules.

Perhaps, lol, but I also am a career IT-er. Developer, Quality Assurance, and Business Analysis. I only expect from Wyndham what was expected of me, if I were doing my job correctly. Thinking about it, if there is one character trait of mine that is likely on every annual review of mine, it is that I am detailed oriented. It was my job to make sure there weren't loopholes. As a developer in the code, as a BA, in the processes themselves. As a tester, damn right I did everything possible to break things. It is not unreasonable to expect Wyndham to think things through and not have loopholes. Historically, they don't have too good of a track record around business processes or systems. For the many loopholes we've seen in the past to the current rollout of blackout dates, etc, the one consistent thing about Wyndham is that it is not well thought out and there will continue to be loopholes.

 

[Free2Roam]

Perhaps, lol, but I also am a career IT-er. Developer, Quality Assurance, and Business Analysis. I only expect from Wyndham what was expected of me, if I were doing my job correctly. Thinking about it, if there is one character trait of mine that is likely on every annual review of mine, it is that I am detailed oriented. It was my job to make sure there weren't loopholes. As a developer in the code, as a BA, in the processes themselves. As a tester, damn right I did everything possible to break things. It is not unreasonable to expect Wyndham to think things through and not have loopholes. Historically, they don't have too good of a track record around business processes or systems. For the many loopholes we've seen in the past to the current rollout of blackout dates, etc, the one consistent thing about Wyndham is that it is not well thought out and there will continue to be loopholes.

We've had parallel careers. I agree with every word of this! It amazes me how so many companies these days put out crap and let the public do the QA testing. I've noticed it more in the last 8-10 years or so.

 

[dgalati]

We've had parallel careers. I agree with every word of this! It amazes me how so many companies these days put out crap and let the public do the QA testing. I've noticed it more in the last 8-10 years or so.

In the field I work in this is called value engineering.

 

[bnoble]

It amazes me how so many companies these days put out crap and let the public do the QA testing.

I just finished (re-)reading Butler Lampson's excellent (and recently revised) Hints for System Design. One of the quotes in that paper was:

"Smart software companies know that reliable software is not cost effective. ... It’s much cheaper to release buggy software and fix the 5% to 10% of bugs... people complain about." —Bruce Schneier

 

[Free2Roam]

I just finished (re-)reading Butler Lampson's excellent (and recently revised) Hints for System Design. One of the quotes in that paper was:

"Smart software companies know that reliable software is not cost effective. ... It’s much cheaper to release buggy software and fix the 5% to 10% of bugs... people complain about." —Bruce Schneier

I guess I've worked way too hard (or maybe I just cared too much) over the years. But honestly, if I had to do it over, I'd do the same thing.

Also, most of the software I developed/maintained was for in-house customers... not the public. Perhaps that's the difference?

At any rate... the "enhancements" that Wyndham has put out over the past few years are a total embarrassment.

 

[dgalati]

I guess I've worked way too hard (or maybe I just cared too much) over the years. But honestly, if I had to do it over, I'd do the same thing.

Also, most of the software I developed/maintained was for in-house customers... not the public. Perhaps that's the difference?

At any rate... the "enhancements" that Wyndham has put out over the past few years are a total embarrassment.

Most failed miserably!

 

[lost patience]

OC best guess is the system was programmed to look for overlaps only on the restricted nights. In this case Fri and Sat. My overlap night was on Sun. Therefore, without an overlap on Fri or Sat night the system flagged my reservations. They did create a case number. Should they get back with me I'll report an update. If this hypothesis is correct we have another case of programming that was not vetted well before implementation.

Time for an update. To refresh memories - I had a reservation for Labor Day weekend that was cancelled even though I had the required overlap. OC sent me an email saying they were still trying to figure out what happened. Then OC called to say they had no idea what happened. Then, OC called to say they acknowledged they had an error in their report, but had since fixed the error and my reservation was one of a few that was cancelled in error.

 

[CO skier]

We've been talking about this for years, for as long as I've been around Wyndham. Why can't Wyndham be straightforward about it and tell us? Why should we create a database and try and figure it out? They're the ones identifying commercial users - why can't they say how? If they'd explain what's acceptable and what's not, people could follow the rules. Hard to follow the rules when we're all guessing what they are.

Because it is Wyndham's sandbox and rules and not yours, or any other renters'.

There. Are you satisfied?

 

[Sandi Bo]

Because it is Wyndham's sandbox and rules and not yours, or any other renters'.

There. Are you satisfied?

Ah the old 'because I said so'. Might work in the 6-10 crowd.

 

[Eric B]

That's kind of pedantic, don't you think...?

 

[bnoble]

Ah the old 'because I said so'. Might work in the 6-10 crowd.

I don't think it's quite that. Rather, I suspect Wyndham's position is that it is not in their interests to publish "how much renting is okay" because it's not about how much as opposed to why. And my guess is that Wyndham frowns upon a why that is "I'm trying to make a little money off my ownership as a reason for owning some of it," no matter how much money one does or does not make. Again, that's just a guess, but it seems consistent with what I know so far.

But, it's also true that it is their sandbox---and they've demonstrated a willingness to use that power unflinchingly in the past. So, while we might not like "because I said so," that might also be the reality.

 

[dgalati]

I don't think it's quite that. Rather, I suspect Wyndham's position is that it is not in their interests to publish "how much renting is okay" because it's not about how much as opposed to why. And my guess is that Wyndham frowns upon a why that is "I'm trying to make a little money off my ownership as a reason for owning some of it," no matter how much money one does or does not make. Again, that's just a guess, but it seems consistent with what I know so far.

But, it's also true that it is their sandbox---and they've demonstrated a willingness to use that power unflinchingly in the past. So, while we might not like "because I said so," that might also be the reality.

Its a moving target and they can move the goal posts when necessary. Like it or not they set the rules. Follow them or find another sandbox to play in.

 

[Silverdollar]

Its a moving target and they can move the goal posts when necessary. Like it or not they set the rules. Follow them or find another sandbox to play in.

I don't have any resale contracts so this doesn't affect me directly. It's the accumulation of all the changes to VIP benefits in recent years, not to mention the frustration of an inferior website, and ongoing untruths by Wyndham's sales force.

I could find another sandbox to play in, but I paid a lot to play in this one and the return on a Certified Exit is zero cents on the dollar.

 

[wjappraise]

Well I’m finally back to posting after time at Bonnet Creek.

I wanted to post the screen shots for the Wyndham apologists who didn’t believe that Wyndham was playing with different rules for Extra Holidays.

First one is a screen shot for Easter at Bonnet Creek. Second one is showing that four bedroom units are offered at Bonnet Creek through EH even though they don’t have availability for Easter in the four bedroom Presidential. Third photo is a picture of the lunar landing just in case certain posters don’t believe that actually happened.

Don’t doubt for a minute that EH or a new iteration will be the only player soon for rentals of Wyndham properties.

Might be an anti trust violation.

Just my opinion

 

[chapjim]

Since Wes has an EH post, I have an EH question.

I have a reservation during "owners only" at a Florida resort. If I list it with Extra Holidays, am I violating the "owners only" restriction?

 

[55plus]

Will Extra Holidays accept your reservation? Aren't they honoring Wyndham's restrictions too?

 

[chapjim]

Will Extra Holidays accept your reservation? Aren't they honoring Wyndham's restrictions too?

You and I have different ways of asking the same question. If I'm violating the restriction, then EH shouldn't take it, right? (Edit #2: In retrospect, I'm not sure this is true and this is what @55plus is asking. Perhaps listing on EH removes the stigma of a adding a guest to a reservation in a restricted period. After all, I'm not the one doing the renting or adding a guest. I'm just listing the week, making it available. I know -- I may be splitting a hair. But, that's what we want to find out. And anyway, I'm not driving the bus, just looking for a ride.)

I'll try it out and let everyone know what happened. It's the first of two consecutive January weeks at Royal Vista. They're too good to cancel, so the alternative is to use it ourselves -- a very real possibility. I'll be retired by then.

Edit #1: I sent in the Extra Holidays Listing Agreement for a 2BR Deluxe at Royal Vista, January 8-15, 2022. The last two days infringe upon the restricted period for MLK's Birthday Weekend (Jan 13-17).