Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[Cyrus24]

While I do respect that point of view, the way the program was set up for VIP benefits when I bought both my retail contracts and my resale contracts was that only the retail contracts (including PICs) would count towards what VIP benefits I get, while all of the points in my account regardless of origin (retail, PIC, resale, rented, PDFed or borrowed from a future year) would enjoy the benefits. I'm positive that all of the VIPs with resale contracts in the same account are in the same situation, though some may not be aware of it. I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it, but if Wyndham were to change the rules on how things work, it would seem like a bit of a stretch to me to call it "fair." Particularly when they do things like realigning your contract years to match a resale biennial contract and potentially costing the owner points as many have had happen.

The other point I see about this is that I have never been given the option to choose what points I use for a reservation. It seems to work out ok the way it is implemented, though if they are really segregating the sources of the points being used rather than allowing a specific account X points for ARP at specific resorts, etc., and they don't let the owner choose what points to use as other systems do, there could be unintended consequences. I imagine that if they used someone's CWS points for a standard period reservation and didn't allow them to make an ARP reservation later that year, for example, they would be opening up a whole new can of hot water.

They change the rules all the time. Example being that we can no longer use a GC on certain reservations. I happen to disagree with that since GC's are not a benefit solely afforded those who paid sizable sums of money for contracts. All owners lose with this blackout BS.

Regarding fairness on obtaining discounts while using resale points, it still just does not seem fair, to me. I currently get a discount on 168K resale points while another gets discounts on millions of cheap resale points. Neither I nor the person with millions of resale points should get the discount. We should only get the discount on points we paid retail for. just like other owners. Our VIP status is defined solely by our retail purchases. Just my opinion. Forget what you were told, rules can be changed. Also, fairness is a matter of perspective. I could get political on what constitutes fairness with regard to taxes and social programs, but, I'll stay neutral on that matter.

One thing I know we'll agree on, implementing would be a nightmare for Wyndham as they have a TERRIBLE track record of rolling out benefit changes, Any changes. for that matter!!!. While I think that they will someday try to eliminate discounts being offered on resale points, the track record of the IT department may be the reason they choose not to touch that benefit.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I wouldn't care if they took away benefits on resale contracts for our Wyndham platinum/ founders accounts. Just let me deed those points back that I don't want, and that could become a big deal because if they stop Ovations, that could hurt us. How would I divest myself of those points? If they take it away, be prepared to take back my Kingsgate, Pagosa Springs, Fairfield Bay (Arkansas), and then watch those HOA's collapse because who will want those points, unless Wyndham offers them at a foreclosure rate with 100% platinum benefits, if they buy enough of them? That would be the smart thing to do. But I am not Wyndham, and I don't know their future plans for these older resorts.

One thing we own that is now run by Wyndham is Presidential Villas (now named Pres Villas at Grand Palms). I am sort of glad Wyndham took over because Wyndham is really good at controlling fees. That is a positive for me, but I am still looking to get out of those units because I don't need that many RCI Points anymore, I rarely get great exchanges with RCI Points, and I don't believe Wyndham will allow the transfer of the RCI points to a new buyer, and I never had a promise in my RCI Points' contract I did with the resort 8 years ago that they would transfer. Now that it's Wyndham, there is no way.

 

[lost patience]

More on my saga for this weekends reservations. It gets even better. Got a call from one of my guests. The front desk told my guest the reservation was still in my name and I needed to modify the traveler. I had forwarded the Wyndham name change confirmation to my guest previously. I told my guest to show the confirmation to the front desk staff - it has my member number and reservation number so they could see it on paper, and also log in themselves. Just to be sure, I logged in and verified as well. Guest said yes they had already shared that info with the front desk, but the front desk and the manager insisted I needed to modify the reservation to add the guest name. I then called and was transferred to the manager. He logged into my account and could see the reservation with the guest name in TRIP, but said it did not transfer to the resort system and if/when it did transfer it would be cancelled as there was not any overlap. Hm. I pointed out the overlap starts tomorrow. Oh, he says. He continued to repeatedly state that the reservation did not transfer to the resort system like it should have. And, he noticed that TRIP showed a 3br while the resort system showed an owner name and a 2br. After a bit - I asked what he intended to do to rectify the issue. After some stumbling he finally said he would manually create the 3br with guest name in the resort system and then would report back to owner care tomorrow.

Are any of you knowledgeable of how the Owner website talks to TRIP and then to the resort? I had always thought it was a one way pass of information. Website database to TRIP to resort. This manager said the resort system could cancel a reservation. Does it really have a feedback loop?

 

[Sandi Bo]

More on my saga for this weekends reservations. It gets even better. Got a call from one of my guests. The front desk told my guest the reservation was still in my name and I needed to modify the traveler. I had forwarded the Wyndham name change confirmation to my guest previously. I told my guest to show the confirmation to the front desk staff - it has my member number and reservation number so they could see it on paper, and also log in themselves. Just to be sure, I logged in and verified as well. Guest said yes they had already shared that info with the front desk, but the front desk and the manager insisted I needed to modify the reservation to add the guest name. I then called and was transferred to the manager. He logged into my account and could see the reservation with the guest name in TRIP, but said it did not transfer to the resort system and if/when it did transfer it would be cancelled as there was not any overlap. Hm. I pointed out the overlap starts tomorrow. Oh, he says. He continued to repeatedly state that the reservation did not transfer to the resort system like it should have. And, he noticed that TRIP showed a 3br while the resort system showed an owner name and a 2br. After a bit - I asked what he intended to do to rectify the issue. After some stumbling he finally said he would manually create the 3br with guest name in the resort system and then would report back to owner care tomorrow.

Are any of you knowledgeable of how the Owner website talks to TRIP and then to the resort? I had always thought it was a one way pass of information. Website database to TRIP to resort. This manager said the resort system could cancel a reservation. Does it really have a feedback loop?

Wow! What a terrible mess for you. I'm so sorry (bet you can't wait to get there). Interestingly, when I called Bonnet Creek to make sure a (current) reservation would be okay I was told the cancellations were totally a corporate thing and they'd have nothing to do with cancelling anything. Things worked as expected at BC, I had no issues at all. Over the years, I've had times at Bonnet Creek where reservations have needed to be built in the resort system. Few and far between but it happens. I also had one at Bentley Brook this year. The resorts did what they needed to do (manually building reservations in the resort system). The changes never reflected back in the owner website (which I believe means never reflected back in TRIP). Points adjustments were made manually by the resort sending the information to some back office at corporate and I saw them in my transaction history about a week later (as a points adjustment -> reservation adjustment) but definitely a manual process). And wow, again, I cannot imagine once in-house that a guest would be removed or that the resort would hold you responsible for the system not working like it should, like you could fix it? Crazy Grand Desert would handle this situation the way they have. (I do think if it doesn't flow properly (and instanteously) in the first place, it has to be fixed manually in the resort system). Good luck, thanks for keeping us posted.

Were your reservations made prior to June 18th? Mine were made after June 18th (both the guest one and the owner one). When I talked to OC originally they said if the reservations were made after June 18th the system would work properly. They said if the reservations were made prior to June 18th, they would still be legal, but I'd have to call OC - insinuating there is a manual way for them to make sure they don't get cancelled. I envision some sort of flag they can set, but no warm fuzzy regarding that at this point. Still looking for confirmation on how a reservation is manually marked safe as well as if the cancellations are automatic or a manual process.

 

[dgalati]

Purely speculation dictated by logic base on what's been happening over the last year.

I concurred with this opinion and also speculate it will eventually become a reality. Why not just eliminate being able to use a GC when booking resale points when recieving VIP discounts or free upgrades. This alone would free up much needed inventory for owners to book for personal use. Some owners believe its a benefit because sales sold it as one. Sounds very similar to the cancel and re book loophole that was elininated.

 

[dgalati]

As I’ve repeatedly maintained - parroting this theory isn’t going to make it come true. Wyndham doesn’t mind allowing VIPs to use resale points for personal use, Wyndham does not want any owners using resale points for commercial use. If it’s not already plainly obvious - the implementation of these blackout periods for popular resorts essentially makes it much more difficult for those VIP owners using resale contracts to maintain any kind of commercial rental business to remain viable. We’ve already seen several owners that fall into this category state on this thread that they will simply use Certified Exit to hand back in their resale contracts that they have been using for commercial renting. For Wyndham - this is mission accomplished IMHO. This new blackout program is a targeted approach to eliminate commercial renters without penalizing other VIP owners who adhere to the documented contractual rules and only use their resale points for personal use. Once this all plays out and another block of owners using resale contracts for commercial rentals are out of the game - there will be no reason to penalize any remaining VIP owners who happen to hold resale contracts for personal use.


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Some VIP owners thought cancel and re book also was untouchable when not using for rentals or commercial use.Then boom just like that it was gone. When a system is abused sooner or later the loopholes are eliminated.

 

[Eric B]

I concurred with this opinion and also speculate it will eventually become a reality. Why not just eliminate being able to use a GC when booking resale points when recieving VIP discounts or free upgrades. This alone would free up mych needed inventory for owners to book for personal use. Some owners believe its a benefit because sales sold it as one. Sounds very similar to the cancel and re book loophole that was elininated.

Some VIP owners thought cancel and re book also was untouchable when not using for rentals or commercial use.Then boom just like that it was gone. When a system is abused sooner or later the loopholes are eliminated.

Similarly, I believe Wyndham will eliminate the ability of owners to book stays starting on Wednesdays. It only makes sense because they would reduce their staffing costs by about 14% by eliminating the need to keep the reception desks open one day a week. It would also reduce the need to air condition or heat the space and keep the lights on, thereby reducing the utility costs. Because Wednesdays are a low demand day anyway and they don't cost as many points as Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays, there would be minimal impact on owners. After all, they never promised that you would be able to check in on a Wednesday and it isn't listed as a right for owners in the contracts. It's inevitable that this will happen. Tuesdays and Thursdays should be enough for those weekday checking-in owners!

 

[Sandi Bo]

Similarly, I believe Wyndham will eliminate the ability of owners to book stays starting on Wednesdays. It only makes sense because they would reduce their staffing costs by about 14% by eliminating the need to keep the reception desks open one day a week. It would also reduce the need to air condition or heat the space and keep the lights on, thereby reducing the utility costs. Because Wednesdays are a low demand day anyway and they don't cost as many points as Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays, there would be minimal impact on owners. After all, they never promised that you would be able to check in on a Wednesday and it isn't listed as a right for owners in the contracts. It's inevitable that this will happen. Tuesdays and Thursdays should be enough for those weekday checking-in owners!

Are you starting a petition or something for this?

 

[troy12n]

Similarly, I believe Wyndham will eliminate the ability of owners to book stays starting on Wednesdays. It only makes sense because they would reduce their staffing costs by about 14% by eliminating the need to keep the reception desks open one day a week. It would also reduce the need to air condition or heat the space and keep the lights on, thereby reducing the utility costs. Because Wednesdays are a low demand day anyway and they don't cost as many points as Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays, there would be minimal impact on owners. After all, they never promised that you would be able to check in on a Wednesday and it isn't listed as a right for owners in the contracts. It's inevitable that this will happen. Tuesdays and Thursdays should be enough for those weekday checking-in owners!

I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but they would never do this. They would not save any money by doing this, as resort "desks" are open every day anyway because they deal with guest services and other stuff every day.

They aren't going to do this...

 

[Sandi Bo]

Not sure this belongs here on in another thread...

I see Desert Blue on the blackout list but not the Margaritaville at Desert Blue. Anyone have any insight on that? I wondered if the Margaritaville is safe to put a guest confirmation on our not. I called and the VC said that since they are in the same building, Margaritaville is also included (as a blacked out resort). I see Inn on Long Wharf Long Wharf both listed so... still left wondering. Anyone else called on this or have more information?

 

[Ty1on]

I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but they would never do this. They would not save any money by doing this, as resort "desks" are open every day anyway because they deal with guest services and other stuff every day.

They aren't going to do this...

He's joking a la "A Modest Proposal"

 

[55plus]

My sister and brother-in-law are celebrating their wedding anniversary at Desert Blue's Margaritaville the last weekend in July. Checking in couple nights before the weekend and checking out a couple nights after. They are going as owners on my account. I added them over 10 years ago. I'm really glad I did incase these new restriction become long-term.

 

[dgalati]

I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but they would never do this. They would not save any money by doing this, as resort "desks" are open every day anyway because they deal with guest services and other stuff every day.

They aren't going to do this...

Not so fast I wouldn't be so sure they don't. @Eric B I hear Wyndham reads these posts so don't give them any more ideas.

 

[Roger830]

Not so fast I wouldn't be so sure they don't. @Eric B I hear Wyndham reads these posts so don't give them any more ideas.

I didn't want to give them any more ideas so I didn't mention that they might have check-in after 6 PM.

 

[dgalati]

My sister and brother-in-law are celebrating their wedding anniversary at Desert Blue's Margaritaville the last weekend in July. Checking in couple nights before the weekend and checking out a couple nights after. They are going as owners on my account. I added them over 10 years ago. I'm really glad I did incase these new restriction become long-term.

I wonder if Wyndham will ever restrict how many names can be on a ownership?

 

[dgalati]

I didn't want to give them any more ideas so I didn't mention that they might have check-in after 6 PM.

I heard 7pm checkin with a 7am check out is a possibility.

 

[55plus]

I wonder if Wyndham will ever restrict how many names can be on a ownership?

I imagine they could come up with a number, but I can't imagine they would have an issue with immediate family members.

 

[dgalati]

I imagine they could come up with a number, but I can't imagine they would have an issue with immediate family members.

Its better to have multiple owners on the hook for the maintenance fees. Do they know they can be responsible to pay them if for some reason you don't?

 

[55plus]

Its better to have multiple owners on the hook for the maintenance fees. Do they know they can be responsible to pay them if for some reason you don't?

They know the deal. But if I were to die it would go to my estate, they could walk away and default on the maintenance fees if they wish. They are on only one deed, a small one and can't be forced to inherit the rest. Saying that, they would want to keep it and use it when they become snowbirds. They would want to inherit it because it's the most efficient way to snowbird at various quality resorts throughout the winter months.

 

[lost patience]

I didn't want to give them any more ideas so I didn't mention that they might have check-in after 6 PM.

Branson resorts already have 6pm check in......

 

[HitchHiker71]

Some VIP owners thought cancel and re book also was untouchable when not using for rentals or commercial use.Then boom just like that it was gone. When a system is abused sooner or later the loopholes are eliminated.

The differences are marked between the example you give and the reality of VIP resale contracts used for rentals. To the best of my understanding pretty much all VIP owners used cancel and rebook prior to Voyager.

In comparison, let’s consider the fact that roughly 5% of all owner contracts in CWP are resale contracts - and only a minority of those contracts are held by VIP owners - and only a minority of those VIP owners who hold resale contracts run commercial rental businesses. That means that well under 1% (it’s more like .05% of CWP contracts - or only 1% of resale contracts). When you actually look at the math - the numbers don’t add up.

It is therefore clearly apples and oranges when comparing these two use cases, of which you are so very fond of doing repeatedly.

Will Wyndham limit resale contract usage in the future? Anything is possible - but likely not for the reasons purported on this and many other threads.


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[Eric B]

The differences are marked between the example you give and the reality of VIP resale contracts used for rentals. To the best of my understanding pretty much all VIP owners used cancel and rebook prior to Voyager.

In comparison, let’s consider the fact that roughly 5% of all owner contracts in CWP are resale contracts - and only a minority of those contracts are held by VIP owners - and only a minority of those VIP owners who hold resale contracts run commercial rental businesses. That means that well under 1% (it’s more like .05% of CWP contracts - or only 1% of resale contracts). When you actually look at the math - the numbers don’t add up.

It is therefore clearly apples and oranges when comparing these two use cases, of which you are so very fond of doing repeatedly.

Will Wyndham limit resale contract usage in the future? Anything is possible - but likely not for the reasons purported on this and many other threads.


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The other point worth mentioning is that a VIP booking in the discount period with a resale ownership is responding to an incentive Wyndham has in place to improve utilization of low demand availability. It was different in the days of cancel and rebook, when they could have secured a reservation early than get the discount anyway. Given that the cost to Wyndham is low of allowing this, if a cost really exists outside some imaginations, and eliminating it would necessitate other adjustments to incentives for use of the same availability, I don’t think Wyndham would have much motivation to do so. They are in the business to run a business, not to swat at imaginary flies.

{Closing off Wednesday check ins, on the other hand, would yield real savings…. }

 

[dgalati]

The other point worth mentioning is that a VIP booking in the discount period with a resale ownership is responding to an incentive Wyndham has in place to improve utilization of low demand availability. It was different in the days of cancel and rebook, when they could have secured a reservation early than get the discount anyway. Given that the cost to Wyndham is low of allowing this, if a cost really exists outside some imaginations, and eliminating it would necessitate other adjustments to incentives for use of the same availability, I don’t think Wyndham would have much motivation to do so. They are in the business to run a business, not to swat at imaginary flies.

{Closing off Wednesday check ins, on the other hand, would yield real savings…. }

Why not add the second Monday and third Sunday of each month? Think about how this would daze and confuse owners into buying more points. Especially if sales promised owners that buying up to VIP status would allow them to check in any day of the week.

 

[dgalati]

Branson resorts already have 6pm check in......

Whats next a additional fee for early check in at 4pm?

 

[9969hi]

I thought I understood the restrictions of certain resorts during desirable booking weeks. When I read the Wyndham description of the restrictions I understood that all owners would to be allowed to have two guest certificates during restricted weeks to rent or give to guests or friends. I called Wyndham today and was added a guest to a non restricted resort. I asked whether I could add a guest to my Bonnet Creek reservation for Aug 9 to 16. I was told that the only way I could put the reservation in a guest name for that week is I would have to be at Bonnet Creek in another unit during that week. I cancelled my Bonnet Creek reservation and then went back to Wyndham website and the memo about restricted resorts. It seems to clearly state that you can do two reservations a year and rent them out with guest certificates. What am I missing here?