Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[lost patience]

But this isn't the only noticeable move as of late.

So far we have seen:

Unlimited HK disappear as a benefit to new VIP.
ROFR being added to CWA June/July 2018
A dramatic reduction in the amount of contracts available for purchase on the resale market
Severe stipulations being added to "some" resale contracts (which is a whole new can of worms.)

Are they chipping away at the original VIP owners so they get so frustrated that they leave (hence wiping out unlimited HK?)

What have you heard information about resale contracts? And what is the "some"? Can you share?

 

[Jan M.]

It's great that they changed what's on the website. However if lost patience's experience is anything to go by it would seem that the system isn't programmed to allow more than two guest reservations when an owner is staying at a resort/dates on the lists.

This leads us right back to where we started with this thread. Can we or should we really trust the current website and the black out list programming not to mess this up?

If owner care manages to find another reservation to replace one that shouldn't have been cancelled does owner care have a way to prevent that reservation from also being cancelled?

 

[lost patience]

OC best guess is the system was programmed to look for overlaps only on the restricted nights. In this case Fri and Sat. My overlap night was on Sun. Therefore, without an overlap on Fri or Sat night the system flagged my reservations. They did create a case number. Should they get back with me I'll report an update. If this hypothesis is correct we have another case of programming that was not vetted well before implementation.

 

[55plus]

What have you heard information about resale contracts? And what is the "some"? Can you share?

It makes sense Wyndham would separate resale from developer purchased points onto separate accounts. This solves a lot of programming problems for Wyndham as far as separating points and would hurt a large portion of the discount rental business.

 

[Ty1on]

What have you heard information about resale contracts? And what is the "some"? Can you share?

I'm not sure he can because as a resale owner, I've been following any changes pretty doggedly and have found nothing at all about any moves against resale owners.

 

[CO skier]

@CO skier reading the above post the restrictions and blackout dats are not so straightforward and simple as they may seem.
[/QUOTE]
For Extra Holidays, the policy is straightforward. After June 18, no rentals for the affected resorts during the affected dates are accepted. That very simple policy just needs to be communicated to those Wyndham employees tasked with reserving Extra Holidays dates.

 

[CO skier]

The email was wrong! Owners cannot make unlimited reservations for the same resort and dates.

Please explain how the email signed by the CEO of Wyndham Destinations can be wrong?

I am not an attorney, but even I know that "Right" or "Wrong" as soon as a policy receives the signature of a company official at that level, which the email did, it becomes enforceable policy (on any side). That is why they get paid the big bucks.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Please explain how the email signed by the CEO of Wyndham Destinations can be wrong?

I am not an attorney, but even I know that "Right" or "Wrong" as soon as a policy receives the signature of a company official at that level, which the email did, it becomes enforceable policy (on any side). That is why they get paid the big bucks.

The system won't allow more than 10 reservations and I can't imagine anyone can override that. I don't care who signed what. Programmatically you cannot exceed 10 reservations. I have seen no ability on the part of VC's or OC's to override anything in this system. They can't do an upgrade or add nights you are entitled to (if they are sitting there but the system isn't working properly). Most certainly they have no power to exceed the max reservations.

That letter is simply poor communication on Wyndham's part. There's no way they meant unlimited.

If you try to book more than 10 overlapping reservations you'll get this message. Caveat: this is not during a blackout period or an effected resort, but I am certain regardless of resort or time period, you'll get this message. It's been kind of a big deal for a long time (2015?) and became programmatically enforced with voyager in May of 2017.

 

[Eric B]

It makes sense Wyndham would separate resale from developer purchased points onto separate accounts. This solves a lot of programming problems for Wyndham as far as separating points and would hurt a large portion of the discount rental business.

@55plus, FYI it looks as though @dgalati has somehow figured out your account access information and started posting stuff under your username....

 

[dgalati]

@55plus, FYI it looks as though @dgalati has somehow figured out your account access information and started posting stuff under your username....

@55plus I think your headed in the right direction! Eliminating resale points being used with VIP discounts and free upgrades would also free up needed inventory.

 

[dgalati]

But this isn't the only noticeable move as of late.

So far we have seen:

Unlimited HK disappear as a benefit to new VIP.
ROFR being added to CWA June/July 2018
A dramatic reduction in the amount of contracts available for purchase on the resale market
Severe stipulations being added to "some" resale contracts (which is a whole new can of worms.)

Are they chipping away at the original VIP owners so they get so frustrated that they leave (hence wiping out unlimited HK?)

I have been called out on a few posts referring to Wyndhams recent new policymaking but I think you have it right. Resale points being used with VIP benefits could very well be the next loophole closed.

 

[lost patience]

It has come to the point that I dread Wyndham's next poorly thought out, poorly communicated, poorly programed change implemented with little to no advance notice that further erodes VIP benefits.

 

[55plus]

I'm not sure he can because as a resale owner, I've been following any changes pretty doggedly and have found nothing at all about any moves against resale owners.

Wyndham doesn't plan to hurt resale owners. I believe their plan is to separate points, resale points and developer points into separate accounts. It's about the bottom line. Some HOAs couldn't survive without resale owners. The less popular resorts couldn't afford to keep their door open.

 

[paxsarah]

So far we have seen:
...
Severe stipulations being added to "some" resale contracts (which is a whole new can of worms.)

But have we seen this? What are the severe stipulations? Which resale contracts?

I believe their plan is to separate points, resale points and developer points into separate accounts.

Is this based on anything, or just a theory of yours? Because separating resale points and developer points into truly separate accounts would be a nightmare. Note that getting VIP benefits on resale points is not the only reason an owner might have both developer and resale points in the same account. Plenty of owners buy once from Wyndham, never get to a VIP level, and then add resale points. A non-VIP might want to use their points together for ARP (assuming the same deed/CWA for multiple contracts), or together in RCI, or together at all, but if they were in separate accounts they couldn't.

 

[HitchHiker71]

@55plus I think your headed in the right direction! Eliminating resale points being used with VIP discounts and free upgrades would also free up needed inventory.

As I’ve repeatedly maintained - parroting this theory isn’t going to make it come true. Wyndham doesn’t mind allowing VIPs to use resale points for personal use, Wyndham does not want any owners using resale points for commercial use. If it’s not already plainly obvious - the implementation of these blackout periods for popular resorts essentially makes it much more difficult for those VIP owners using resale contracts to maintain any kind of commercial rental business to remain viable. We’ve already seen several owners that fall into this category state on this thread that they will simply use Certified Exit to hand back in their resale contracts that they have been using for commercial renting. For Wyndham - this is mission accomplished IMHO. This new blackout program is a targeted approach to eliminate commercial renters without penalizing other VIP owners who adhere to the documented contractual rules and only use their resale points for personal use. Once this all plays out and another block of owners using resale contracts for commercial rentals are out of the game - there will be no reason to penalize any remaining VIP owners who happen to hold resale contracts for personal use.


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[VAlegacy]

As I’ve repeatedly maintained - parroting this theory isn’t going to make it come true. Wyndham doesn’t mind allowing VIPs to use resale points for personal use, Wyndham does not want any owners using resale points for commercial use. If it’s not already plainly obvious - the implementation of these blackout periods for popular resorts essentially makes it much more difficult for those VIP owners using resale contracts to maintain any kind of commercial rental business to remain viable. We’ve already seen several owners that fall into this category state on this thread that they will simply use Certified Exit to hand back in their resale contracts that they have been using for commercial renting. For Wyndham - this is mission accomplished IMHO. This new blackout program is a targeted approach to eliminate commercial renters without penalizing other VIP owners who adhere to the documented contractual rules and only use their resale points for personal use. Once this all plays out and another block of owners using resale contracts for commercial rentals are out of the game - there will be no reason to penalize any remaining VIP owners who happen to hold resale contracts for personal use.


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I have to wonder though if totally eliminating rentals is in their best interest. Think about the number of sales pitches that are generated from people on first time visits, unfamiliar with the workings of Wyndham or timeshare in general, euphoric on their first time visit.
Before I owned anything Wyndham, there was a EH vacation at BC I almost booked, that was discounted around 50%. The requirement was to attend a sales pitch during my stay to receive the discount. I decided to book instead through Tripbound, a points manager. This was more discounted than the EH with the sales pitch requirement.
With less fresh meat, this will impact sales for sure.

 

[VacayKat]

I have to wonder though if totally eliminating rentals is in their best interest. Think about the number of sales pitches that are generated from people on first time visits, unfamiliar with the workings of Wyndham or timeshare in general, euphoric on their first time visit.
Before I owned anything Wyndham, there was a EH vacation at BC I almost booked, that was discounted around 50%. The requirement was to attend a sales pitch during my stay to receive the discount. I decided to book instead through Tripbound, a points manager. This was more discounted than the EH with the sales pitch requirement.
With less fresh meat, this will impact sales for sure.

I think the trick is - if owners don’t (or can’t) rent, Wyndham still can AND they can control the price and the audience. It isn’t that rentals will cease- just non Wyndham rentals.

 

[Cyrus24]

I think the trick is - if owners don’t (or can’t) rent, Wyndham still can AND they can control the price and the audience. It isn’t that rentals will cease- just non Wyndham rentals.

And, that is wrong, IMHO. Wyndham can run a Rental Business and the lowly owner who has a few extra points can't 'rent' them out. I use the term rent, loosely, as in my case the few rentals I've done have been at 'cost of points' to friends. Hardly running a commercial business.

I do support taking VIP benefits from resale points contracts, that has never seemed fair to me. Not sure that Wyndham has the IT capability for implementing such a change,, they have such trouble with what should be easy modifications. Full disclosure, I'm VIP-P with one small resale contract, I would not be significantly impacted by a rule change on resale contracts.

 

[Sandi Bo]

But have we seen this? What are the severe stipulations? Which resale contracts?


Is this based on anything, or just a theory of yours? Because separating resale points and developer points into truly separate accounts would be a nightmare. Note that getting VIP benefits on resale points is not the only reason an owner might have both developer and resale points in the same account. Plenty of owners buy once from Wyndham, never get to a VIP level, and then add resale points. A non-VIP might want to use their points together for ARP (assuming the same deed/CWA for multiple contracts), or together in RCI, or together at all, but if they were in separate accounts they couldn't.

This has been talked about forever. Even before the rolling and before the stripping. Things work today like Wyndham wants them to, whatever the reason. If and when they want to change things, they will. I say they like having maintenance fees paid. I for one do not book all rooms at a discount. Value season rentals at full points can for sure pay maintenance fees and take much, much, less time. Family vacations planned a year out are booked at full points. My guess is they are happy with the status quo. If they weren't, we'd have seen something different with the rollout of voyager or the May 2020 release. And I fully understand that could change tomorrow (or maybe even today with 6 hours notice).

 

[Worker]

To confirm, is Wyndham Grand Desert on restricted list? I didn't see it.

 

[Eric B]

I do support taking VIP benefits from resale points contracts, that has never seemed fair to me. Not sure that Wyndham has the IT capability for implementing such a change,, they have such trouble with what should be easy modifications. Full disclosure, I'm VIP-P with one small resale contract, I would not be significantly impacted by a rule change on resale contracts.

While I do respect that point of view, the way the program was set up for VIP benefits when I bought both my retail contracts and my resale contracts was that only the retail contracts (including PICs) would count towards what VIP benefits I get, while all of the points in my account regardless of origin (retail, PIC, resale, rented, PDFed or borrowed from a future year) would enjoy the benefits. I'm positive that all of the VIPs with resale contracts in the same account are in the same situation, though some may not be aware of it. I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it, but if Wyndham were to change the rules on how things work, it would seem like a bit of a stretch to me to call it "fair." Particularly when they do things like realigning your contract years to match a resale biennial contract and potentially costing the owner points as many have had happen.

The other point I see about this is that I have never been given the option to choose what points I use for a reservation. It seems to work out ok the way it is implemented, though if they are really segregating the sources of the points being used rather than allowing a specific account X points for ARP at specific resorts, etc., and they don't let the owner choose what points to use as other systems do, there could be unintended consequences. I imagine that if they used someone's CWS points for a standard period reservation and didn't allow them to make an ARP reservation later that year, for example, they would be opening up a whole new can of hot water.

 

[paxsarah]

To confirm, is Wyndham Grand Desert on restricted list? I didn't see it.

It is. Unfortunately, the list is only grouped by dates, not by resort. So it's on the list for weekends in September and October, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and NYE, Spring Break, Easter, and Memorial Day.

 

[rickandcindy23]

When you own at Kingsgate or Fairfield Bay, or any of the older properties via a resale, I could see a case being made that anything booked with regular points should not be subject to the new rules. Because you are choosing to rent/use what you actually do own. I am allowed to use my deeded weeks as rentals (not in Wyndham), and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I pay my fees, reserve my weeks and rent them. Just because they are in points, I cannot rent those units I own?

 

[55plus]

But have we seen this? What are the severe stipulations? Which resale contracts?
Is this based on anything, or just a theory of yours? Because separating resale points and developer points into truly separate accounts would be a nightmare. Note that getting VIP benefits on resale points is not the only reason an owner might have both developer and resale points in the same account. Plenty of owners buy once from Wyndham, never get to a VIP level, and then add resale points. A non-VIP might want to use their points together for ARP (assuming the same deed/CWA for multiple contracts), or together in RCI, or together at all, but if they were in separate accounts they couldn't.

Purely speculation dictated by logic base on what's been happening over the last year.

 

[Ty1on]

Purely speculation dictated by logic base on what's been happening over the last year.

It was a very loaded statement when he wrote that we have seen severe stipulations applied to some resale accounts. I know you didn't post that, but such a claim needs to be backed up by more than speculation.

In the last year and change, my resale points have behaved precisely as they always have. In fact, RCI was very generous with the exchange I was forced to cancel, my non club resort generously allowed me to rebook my interval outside my (EOY) use year, and Wyndham allowed me to convert that interval to Club with no fees, even awarding me extra points next year for the rescheduled reservation that was cancelled. I dont own any store bought points at all, and I don't feel less-than when dealing with owner services, or any resort staff. Except of course that I don't have club pass and cannot participate in RCI points. Those limitations aren't anything new.

I am very interested in a specific example of a resale contract whose privileges have changed over the last year. Until then, I consider it a Wild aspersion.