Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[chapjim]

For those curious about Koala, they verify the reservation during the booking process. When it rents the owner is asked to confirm the the reservation and to add the renter to the reservation. I believe they confirm with the renter one the rental in confirmed giving the owner time to add the guests name to the reservation. Honestly, I have only rented one and it was within 45 days of check-in so I added the guest the same day. The do ask to use their confirmation email on the reservation so they get the Wyndham email. I know for a fact that they regularly check on the reservation. I received a call about a week prior to check-in saying the renters name wasn't on the reservation. It was and I send a screenshot showing as much. In a few hours they had it cleared up... That tells me they work directly with Wyndham in a way most other platforms do not.

There is always risk in any exchange. I believe they have a fair balance in the risk area. They do have two sets of customers and need to keep both happy. To the point of booking within 60 days and swapping out reservations.... I am not sure their system supports that. You are required to provide the confirmation number when you list and it stays with the listing. I am not sure what they would do if the reservation confirmed when the owner added the renter wasn't the same as what was in their system.... Then again, I have never tried or intend to.

I am generally anxious to add a guest to a reservation and Koala has the form partially completed but street address has to come from the renter via Koala.

Unfortunately, Wyndham renters through Koala will not get the texts from the resorts. Probably not a great loss. I doubt

As has been indicated before, there are significant differences between the “email version” of the restrictions versus the website version. I’m not in favor of either, as I am one of those “megarenters" who paid $000’s of dollars to Wyndham over 30 years to reach Founder’s status, and was repeatedly told I could rent any points I owned to cover my maintenance fees. I understand the purchase contracts do not provide me with language to that effect, but I’m sure Wyndham would have a hard time defending this verbal promise made to 000’s of owners by Wyndham’s sales agents if they were to be challenged in a class action lawsuit. In addition, it’s likely Wyndham would be unable to defend the specific language in the email version of the restrictions, as many owners including myself never received these directly from Wyndham and Wyndham’s own vacation counselors apparently don’t fully understand how the guest rules are to be applied on a consistent basis.

The “website” version of the restrictions makes no reference to guest reservations which overlap one of the restricted periods being limited to two per year. The language of that version indicates owners “may use two guest confirmations during the restricted dates.” I would argue that this language can be interpreted to permit two guest reservations during each of the restricted dates. In addition, it could also be argued that the two guest confirmations allowed may apply to each of the individual resorts within each restricted period. It seems to me this would go a long way toward providing more availability for owners at high demand resorts during peak periods, and make these restrictions somewhat more palatable to those who oppose them. Hopefully Wyndham will consider language to address the major injustice they have imposed on many of their owners.

Although irrelevant, my annual point allotment is a little over 8 million points and is only enough to cover my personal travel and annual maintenance fees. They do not provide me any recovery of my initial investment or a “commercial profit.” If any of the true “megarenters” were to bring such a lawsuit I would be happy to join and be willing to testify in any court proceedings.

Oh, Jeez! Not another class action!

Old saw: Verbal promises aren't worth the paper they're written on.

 

[55plus]

And, I'm very much OK with what you did. My point was that you've been trying to shut down rentals and all the while you've been a renter through the years (for whatever reason). We all have a reason to be a renter from time to time. And, this is why many are having trouble with the blackout rules you are trying so hard to have expanded. I have absolutely no problem with you being a renter.

I didn't book that reservation to rent. It turned into a rental by happenstance. It was for personal travel that I offered up after a 4 bedroom came available. If it wasn't past the drop dead date, I would have cancelled the reservation so someone else could book it. I let it go for less than it would have cost a non VIP to book. So, if you think about it, it wasn't technically a rental, it was a gift with a user fee.

 

[dgalati]

I didn't book that reservation to rent. It turned into a rental by happenstance. It was for personal travel that I offered up after a 4 bedroom came available. If it wasn't past the drop dead date, I would have cancelled the reservation so someone else could book it. I let it go for less than it would have cost a non VIP to book. So, if you think about it, it wasn't technically a rental, it was a gift with a user fee.

A gift with a user fee. Very interesting. I wonder if Wyndham has thought about this as a new revenue stream?

 

[dgalati]

So, you are a renter? Wow. I never would have guessed that.

Wyndham Glacier Canyon - 4th of July Week (7 nights) - July 2-9, 2021

WISCONSIN DELLS - the Waterpark Capital of the World - Best prices in in town. . . *** JULY 2-9, 2021 - 7 Nights: 1 Bedroom Deluxe Condo (Sleeps 4) for $700 (equates to $25 per night/per person) ** The CONDO is managed by Wyndham Vacation Resorts: Balcony; Fully equipped kitchen; Washer and...

tugbbs.com

LOL thanks for pointing out the truth. Looks like something Wyndham would do.

 

[dgalati]

You did not cancel the 1BR, you RENTED it. Seems that you've been all over the renters in the string, working with Michael Brown to shut it all down.. And,, now, we find out that you are a renter. I'm ok with it, I need to get rid of points from time to time.

Wow!

I didn't book that reservation to rent. It turned into a rental by happenstance.
happens.

 

[wjappraise]

That was a cancellation I picked up a few weeks ago. I was able to pick up a 4 bedroom since then so I cancelled the 1 bedroom. A 4 bedroom works out better. Now I can take nieces and nephews.

So ... you were able to find and book not one, but two reservations, during a highly demanded holiday week at a very popular resort. Doesn’t seem that the mega renters prevented you from getting more reservations than you actually needed.

And that’s the point. There is inventory available for owners who search or stay up until midnight 13 months out.

I’m glad you were able to recover some funds. But your position demonizing renters isn’t consistent with your actions.

Right?

 

[dgalati]

So ... you were able to find and book not one, but two reservations, during a highly demanded holiday week at a very popular resort. Doesn’t seem that the mega renters prevented you from getting more reservations than you actually needed.

And that’s the point. There is inventory available for owners who search or stay up until midnight 13 months out.

I’m glad you were able to recover some funds. But your position demonizing renters isn’t consistent with your actions.

Right?

I am suprised at what some preach then actually do. Smh and lmao

 

[55plus]

I'm not demonizing renters. My position is owners should have some priority during high demands timeframes at high demands resorts, because most owners can't plan 10-13 months out. Whether it be because of employment, family situations, etc. I'm speaking for the average Joe. I'm retired so I can. Infact, I booked Biketoberfest last year for this October. What pisses me off is when I try to book 13 months out there isn't any two, three or four bedroom units available and then they show up for rent on eBay, Craigslist, Extra Holiday, etc.

 

[dioxide45]

Unfortunately, Wyndham renters through Koala will not get the texts from the resorts. Probably not a great loss. I doubt

We don't get texts, but we now get Extra Vacations promotional emails....

 

[Zeke_62]

I had to walk both VC and OC through the new regulations last Sunday. Has anyone talked to VC after their meeting last week? Just curious if they are verbally adding a different spin now.

 

[dgalati]

I'm the one that had to walk both VC and OC through the new regulations last Sunday. Has anyone talked to VC after their meeting last week? Just curious if they are verbally adding a different spin now.

I think Wyndham is using sales daze and confuse approach to limit rentals. The miscommunications and different answers you receive from the VC & OC help to limit rentals also. What owner wants to take the chance on the possible cancellation of a rental.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Speaking of Wyndham's awesome communication...

I added a guest today, at Bonnet Creek, and this is on the confirmation:

Any guest reservation made or added after March 15, 2021, for travel on June 25 – July 9, Nov. 19 – 27 & Dec. 17 – Jan. 2, 2022, will be subject to cancellation and notified via email. Points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest confirmation(s) will be returned within 5-7 business days of cancellation.

No mention of the second wave policy for reservations after June 18th :-(

The reservation qualifies as valid under the second wave policy. I had to walk the VC through that, according to the 2nd wave policy (overlaps with an owners reservation). As best as I can tell, the reservation is good, I'll keep you posted. If I understand correctly, a flag would have been set if it were subject to cancellation and the VC said the flag is not set. I called Bonnet Creek and they see the reservation and said any cancellations would come from corporate. Keeping a close eye on this one to make sure all works as expected.

My understanding - if reservations overlap even 1 day with an owner reservation, the reservation qualifies as good.
For Bonnet Creek, the reservations need to have been made after June 18th. I have a July 1-5 under an owner, and a June 28 checking in under a guest (a friend arriving first). Both reservations were made after June 18th so I am told make me okay for the second wave policy.

I have no plans or interest in cancelling the owner reservation after the guest checks in. An owner is checking in, per the rules. I have no interest in poking the bear and getting on a list somewhere.

Another follow-up thought. We get 2 exceptions per year. If I were to cancel the owner checkin on July 1, Wyndham could count this toward my exceptions quota. No one said that would happen, but if I were Wyndham, that is what I would do to attempt to plug that loop hole.

 

[wjappraise]

Speaking of Wyndham's awesome communication...

I added a guest today, at Bonnet Creek, and this is on the confirmation:

Any guest reservation made or added after March 15, 2021, for travel on June 25 – July 9, Nov. 19 – 27 & Dec. 17 – Jan. 2, 2022, will be subject to cancellation and notified via email. Points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest confirmation(s) will be returned within 5-7 business days of cancellation.

No mention of the second wave policy for reservations after June 18th :-(

The reservation qualifies as valid under the second wave policy. I had to walk the VC through that, according to the 2nd wave policy (overlaps with an owners reservation). As best as I can tell, the reservation is good, I'll keep you posted. If I understand correctly, a flag would have been set if it were subject to cancellation and the VC said the flag is not set. I called Bonnet Creek and they see the reservation and said any cancellations would come from corporate. Keeping a close eye on this one to make sure all works as expected.

My understanding - if reservations overlap even 1 day with an owner reservation, the reservation qualifies as good.
For Bonnet Creek, the reservations need to have been made after June 18th. I have a July 1-5 under an owner, and a June 28 checking in under a guest (a friend arriving first). Both reservations were made after June 18th so I am told make me okay for the second wave policy.

I have no plans or interest in cancelling the owner reservation after the guest checks in. An owner is checking in, per the rules. I have no interest in poking the bear and getting on a list somewhere.

Another follow-up thought. We get 2 exceptions per year. If I were to cancel the owner checkin on July 1, Wyndham could count this toward my exceptions quota. No one said that would happen, but if I were Wyndham, that is what I would do to attempt to plug that loop hole.

Thanks for sharing your episode on this long strange journey.

 

[chapjim]

Speaking of Wyndham's awesome communication...

I added a guest today, at Bonnet Creek, and this is on the confirmation:

Any guest reservation made or added after March 15, 2021, for travel on June 25 – July 9, Nov. 19 – 27 & Dec. 17 – Jan. 2, 2022, will be subject to cancellation and notified via email. Points, housekeeping, reservation transaction(s), and guest confirmation(s) will be returned within 5-7 business days of cancellation.

No mention of the second wave policy for reservations after June 18th :-(

The reservation qualifies as valid under the second wave policy. I had to walk the VC through that, according to the 2nd wave policy (overlaps with an owners reservation). As best as I can tell, the reservation is good, I'll keep you posted. If I understand correctly, a flag would have been set if it were subject to cancellation and the VC said the flag is not set. I called Bonnet Creek and they see the reservation and said any cancellations would come from corporate. Keeping a close eye on this one to make sure all works as expected.

My understanding - if reservations overlap even 1 day with an owner reservation, the reservation qualifies as good.
For Bonnet Creek, the reservations need to have been made after June 18th. I have a July 1-5 under an owner, and a June 28 checking in under a guest (a friend arriving first). Both reservations were made after June 18th so I am told make me okay for the second wave policy.

I have no plans or interest in cancelling the owner reservation after the guest checks in. An owner is checking in, per the rules. I have no interest in poking the bear and getting on a list somewhere.

Another follow-up thought. We get 2 exceptions per year. If I were to cancel the owner checkin on July 1, Wyndham could count this toward my exceptions quota. No one said that would happen, but if I were Wyndham, that is what I would do to attempt to plug that loop hole.

How do we communicate with Wyndham that we want to use one of our exceptions? Call a VC before adding the guest? Can we trust the system to properly deal with these reservations and exceptions?

 

[Sandi Bo]

How do we communicate with Wyndham that we want to use one of our exceptions? Call a VC before adding the guest? Can we trust the system to properly deal with these reservations and exceptions?

I don't trust the system to do anything and plan to call fwiw. I'm pretty sure the VC or OC can do something to make the reservation safe (but that is just my perception and clarifying is challenging). (This was coming from a VC who first said the owner and guest needed to checkin the same day, confirmed that with his supervisor, but eventually agreed with me that one overlapping day was sufficient).

I was also told, that if the original reservation had been made prior to June 18th, a call into them would ensure the reservation wasn't cancelled. Since my reservation was made after June 18th, they said a phone call wasn't necessary.

Trust but verify (and maybe throw in a few Hail Mary's)?

 

[biggen]

I emailed Vacation Strategy (a mega renter) who I have used off and on over the years about how they are handling this new policy. I had asked if they are going to work with owners and use the two guest confirmations per year each owner gets in order to use as a loophole to evade this new policy. They claim owners have to be at the resort during the guest overlap. Here is their email to me:

Actually they can't. We thought the same and had hope since we have several hundred owners we can use. So we called Wyndham to 100% confirm. What they mean by that is if the owner wants to travel to the resort with their guests then they can use up to 2 confirmations. AKA: you can only use your guest confirmations if you are also coming down as well. Basically in the event that an owner is coming down with a big party and is needing multiple rooms, they can have 1 in their name and 2 in a guest's name. But if the owner cancels their personal reservations down the line, they will automatically cancel the guest ones too.

Is this correct? I thought owners could use their two GCs per year to avoid having to be on property.

 

[wjappraise]

I emailed Vacation Strategy (a mega renter) who I have used off and on over the years about how they are handling this new policy. I had asked if they are going to work with owners and use the two guest confirmations per year each owner gets in order to use as a loophole to evade this new policy. They claim owners have to be at the resort during the guest overlap. Here is their email to me:


Is this correct? I thought owners could use their two GCs per year to avoid having to be on property.

I’m not sure why Wyndham can’t get their agents to understand their new policy - oh wait, it’s Wyndham, that’s why.

Here is the policy from the email:

• Allowing you to bring guests with you when you will be visiting these identified resorts during the select travel dates. As long as the owner and guest reservation(s) have an overlapping day, you may reserve as many guest reservations as you would like.

• For reservations at identified resorts during the select travel periods when you are not traveling with your guests, up to two times a year, you can use a Guest Confirmation from your annual allotment. Guest reservations during these peak times in excess of the two allowed will be subject to cancellation.

“As long as the owner and guest reservations have an overlapping day, you may reserve as many guest reservations as you would like.”

That’s a quote. Of course, you are limited to no more than 10 units per night, less at smaller resorts.

Wes.

 

[chapjim]

I’m not sure why Wyndham can’t get their agents to understand their new policy - oh wait, it’s Wyndham, that’s why.

Here is the policy from the email:

• Allowing you to bring guests with you when you will be visiting these identified resorts during the select travel dates. As long as the owner and guest reservation(s) have an overlapping day, you may reserve as many guest reservations as you would like.

• For reservations at identified resorts during the select travel periods when you are not traveling with your guests, up to two times a year, you can use a Guest Confirmation from your annual allotment. Guest reservations during these peak times in excess of the two allowed will be subject to cancellation.

“As long as the owner and guest reservations have an overlapping day, you may reserve as many guest reservations as you would like.”

That’s a quote. Of course, you are limited to no more than 10 units per night, less at smaller resorts.

Wes.

Another part of the question: Is it necessary for the owner to occupy during the period or is just making the owner's reservation sufficient? If occupancy is necessary for the exception and the owner doesn't occupy, then Wyndham could justifiably reverse the exception. If occupancy is not necessary, then the whole thing is a sham.

 

[dgalati]

Another part of the question: Is it necessary for the owner to occupy during the period or is just making the owner's reservation sufficient? If occupancy is necessary for the exception and the owner doesn't occupy, then Wyndham could justifiably reverse the exception. If occupancy is not necessary, then the whole thing is a sham.

Just another loophole to game the system?

 

[WhiskeyJack]

Another part of the question: Is it necessary for the owner to occupy during the period or is just making the owner's reservation sufficient? If occupancy is necessary for the exception and the owner doesn't occupy, then Wyndham could justifiably reverse the exception. If occupancy is not necessary, then the whole thing is a sham.

I asked this question of an Owner Care rep today. He didn't seem that knowledgeable of the new rules. Even said he and others have never been trained. I had to send him the email because all he had seen so far was what was on the website. So take his answer he gave me with this in mind.

He said that based on his "experience" so far that if the owner is scheduled to check in after the guest, and at least one day overlaps, then even if the owner does not show they will not make the guest move out after they have checked in. That seems like a no brainer, I can't imagine the resort kicking someone out that has already checked in, so I think that would be accurate. He said that if the owner was to check in before the guest and did not show then the guest reservation would be cancelled. He said that if the owner and guest were to check in on the same date and the owner did not show that he believed it would be a case by case decision and most likely up to the resort.

 

[dgalati]

I asked this question of an Owner Care rep today. He didn't seem that knowledgeable of the new rules. Even said he and others have never been trained. I had to send him the email because all he had seen so far was what was on the website. So take his answer he gave me with this in mind.

He said that based on his "experience" so far that if the owner is scheduled to check in after the guest, and at least one day overlaps, then even if the owner does not show they will not make the guest move out after they have checked in. That seems like a no brainer, I can't imagine the resort kicking someone out that has already checked in, so I think that would be accurate. He said that if the owner was to check in before the guest and did not show then the guest reservation would be cancelled. He said that if the owner and guest were to check in on the same date and the owner did not show that he believed it would be a case by case decision and most likely up to the resort.

The policy is ripe for abuse by owners looking to rent vacations. I'm sure sales will put a spin on how you can buy more points to get around this paper tiger.

 

[chapjim]

I asked this question of an Owner Care rep today. He didn't seem that knowledgeable of the new rules. Even said he and others have never been trained. I had to send him the email because all he had seen so far was what was on the website. So take his answer he gave me with this in mind.

He said that based on his "experience" so far that if the owner is scheduled to check in after the guest, and at least one day overlaps, then even if the owner does not show they will not make the guest move out after they have checked in. That seems like a no brainer, I can't imagine the resort kicking someone out that has already checked in, so I think that would be accurate. He said that if the owner was to check in before the guest and did not show then the guest reservation would be cancelled. He said that if the owner and guest were to check in on the same date and the owner did not show that he believed it would be a case by case decision and most likely up to the resort.

I guess that's the most we could hope for under the circumstances. Thanks for asking!

 

[Jan M.]

Even said he and others have never been trained

I thought someone posted either here on TUG or in one of the Facebook groups that the phone lines were closed for 90 minutes one day last week for the reps to have a meeting about this.

I'm sure any owner who's aware of the lists finds it frustrating and unacceptable that 10 days later we still don't have an updated and clear explanation on the website. We know the email that was sent out was glaringly incorrect. One example is that the limit of 10 reservations isn't something new in the last year or two! If Geoff Richards, the COO, doesn't know this you'd think he certainly has someone on his staff who's job it is to know these things and compose or review anything that gets sent out with his name on it.

I can't be the only one asking why they haven't updated the website to give a clear explanation. My guess is if they did that then they would have to stand behind it and they have no more confidence than some of us have in regards to the system handling guest's reservations for the dates/resorts on the lists correctly even most of the time.

 

[paxsarah]

We know the email that was sent out was glaringly incorrect. One example is that the limit of 10 reservations isn't something new in the last year or two!

I’m not sure what you’re referring to here.

 

[dgalati]

I thought someone posted either here on TUG or in one of the Facebook groups that the phone lines were closed for 90 minutes one day last week for the reps to have a meeting about this.

I'm sure any owner who's aware of the lists finds it frustrating and unacceptable that 10 days later we still don't have an updated and clear explanation on the website. We know the email that was sent out was glaringly incorrect. One example is that the limit of 10 reservations isn't something new in the last year or two! If Geoff Richards, the COO, doesn't know or you'd think he certainly has someone on his staff who's job it is to know these things and compose or review anything that gets sent out with his name on it.

I can't be the only one asking why they haven't updated the website to give a clear explanation. My guess is if they did that then they would have to stand behind it and they have no more confidence than some of us have in regards to the system handling guest's reservations for the dates/resorts on the lists correctly even most of the time.

The confusion also leads to less reservations becoming rentals. What owner or renter wants to show up and find out reservation was cancelled? The daze and confuse strategy is right out of the sales teams playbook. Reading the posts here and on facebook it seems to be working out well to limit rentals at resorts during high demand times.