Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[55plus]

If they really wanted to put a halt on renting for guest they should train the sales people not to lie..

Speaking the truth goes against sales weasel training. They are trained to say whatever it takes to make a sale. They can get away with it because if you decide to buy based on what you were told, as soon as you sign the contract Wyndham is off the hook for the promises made. There is a disclaimer in the contract that basically states, any promises made are moot unless they are spelled out in the contract.

 

[Cyrus24]

I wanted to follow up on comments that have been made regarding Extra Holidays and the Blackout list. I had a reason to call the EH number this morning and while on the call I confirmed that EH will NOT be renting units that cover Blackout Resorts/Dates. I had already noted that WBC had no availability on Blackout Dates and another TUG member had noted that this was the case at other resorts on the Blackout list. I give Wyndham props for shutting down their revenue stream as they shut down the point using options for those who occasionally rent.

 

[bnoble]

The thing with KOALA is, you never get an actual confirmation except the KOALA confirmation. So you never really know if your name is on the reservation or not.

I would guess that the average KOALA renter doesn't really understand the importance of the distinction.

 

[PhilD41]

For those curious about Koala, they verify the reservation during the booking process. When it rents the owner is asked to confirm the the reservation and to add the renter to the reservation. I believe they confirm with the renter one the rental in confirmed giving the owner time to add the guests name to the reservation. Honestly, I have only rented one and it was within 45 days of check-in so I added the guest the same day. The do ask to use their confirmation email on the reservation so they get the Wyndham email. I know for a fact that they regularly check on the reservation. I received a call about a week prior to check-in saying the renters name wasn't on the reservation. It was and I send a screenshot showing as much. In a few hours they had it cleared up... That tells me they work directly with Wyndham in a way most other platforms do not.

There is always risk in any exchange. I believe they have a fair balance in the risk area. They do have two sets of customers and need to keep both happy. To the point of booking within 60 days and swapping out reservations.... I am not sure their system supports that. You are required to provide the confirmation number when you list and it stays with the listing. I am not sure what they would do if the reservation confirmed when the owner added the renter wasn't the same as what was in their system.... Then again, I have never tried or intend to.

 

[chapjim]

Speaking the truth goes against sales weasel training. They are trained to say whatever it takes to make a sale. They can get away with it because if you decide to buy based on what you were told, as soon as you sign the contract Wyndham is off the hook for the promises made. There is a disclaimer in the contract that basically states, any promises made are moot unless they are spelled out in the contract.

And there is a zero chance of modifying the contract.

 

[dgalati]

Is there nothing between "little guy" and "mega-renter?"

Do we know how Wyndham defines "mega-renter?"

If you have to ask you probably are a mega renter. I am sure Wyndham has some metrics to define a "mega-renter" or the "little guy". It is all fun and games until Wyndham pulls the rug but like Jan said it is their club and they can change the rules without regard for what was promised or sold as a benefit. My advice for all the owners that rent points is to ride it as hard as you can until the music stops. Hopefully you can negotiate a exit comparable to what @ronparise or @am1 received.

 

[tschwa2]

It also seems strange to me that Glacier Canyon isn't on the list for the 4th if not for summer weekends completely.

 

[dioxide45]

It also seems strange to me that Glacier Canyon isn't on the list for the 4th if not for summer weekends completely.

I am sure some would prefer that you don't point these things out

 

[55plus]

If the restriction list continues next year I would expect to see Glacier Canyon on the list for summer and holidays.

 

[dgalati]

If the restriction list continues next year I would expect to see Glacier Canyon on the list for summer and holidays.

You mean when not if.

 

[dioxide45]

For those curious about Koala, they verify the reservation during the booking process. When it rents the owner is asked to confirm the the reservation and to add the renter to the reservation. I believe they confirm with the renter one the rental in confirmed giving the owner time to add the guests name to the reservation. Honestly, I have only rented one and it was within 45 days of check-in so I added the guest the same day. The do ask to use their confirmation email on the reservation so they get the Wyndham email. I know for a fact that they regularly check on the reservation. I received a call about a week prior to check-in saying the renters name wasn't on the reservation. It was and I send a screenshot showing as much. In a few hours they had it cleared up... That tells me they work directly with Wyndham in a way most other platforms do not.

There is always risk in any exchange. I believe they have a fair balance in the risk area. They do have two sets of customers and need to keep both happy. To the point of booking within 60 days and swapping out reservations.... I am not sure their system supports that. You are required to provide the confirmation number when you list and it stays with the listing. I am not sure what they would do if the reservation confirmed when the owner added the renter wasn't the same as what was in their system.... Then again, I have never tried or intend to.

Thanks for explaining the process. Perhaps the 15 day guest cert add was reserved for those 16 day cancellation policies. I suspect your reservation was Strict cancellation which meant you could be paid even if the renter couldn't go. I really don't like the way that KOALA words the description for the Strict cancellation policy by leaving open the possibility of at least requesting a refund. I mean if a renter wants a better cancellation policy, you should find a listing that has one.

I think the issue may continue into next year and there are probably a lot of people making 2022 rentals and perhaps not yet adding guest certificates. That could mean a lot of unhappy renters who have their rentals cancelled because the owner can no longer add the guest. I think this is why another cancellation policy needs to allow for a partial refund if cancelled at day X. If the owner had to add a free guest cert, they will at least get money to pay for the next one if they are out of free ones. If they had to pay for the guest cert on the reservation, well they are being reimbursed for that. There is already one unhappy renter with a review on Trustpilot who wasn't please with how the Wyndham situation was handled and the 15 day add of the guest name. I do realise though that many of the other big renters like Vacation Strategy employ similar policies of not adding the guest name right away.

 

[Cyrus24]

If the restriction list continues next year I would expect to see Glacier Canyon on the list for summer and holidays.

So, you are a renter? Wow. I never would have guessed that.

Wyndham Glacier Canyon - 4th of July Week (7 nights) - July 2-9, 2021

WISCONSIN DELLS - the Waterpark Capital of the World - Best prices in in town. . . *** JULY 2-9, 2021 - 7 Nights: 1 Bedroom Deluxe Condo (Sleeps 4) for $700 (equates to $25 per night/per person) ** The CONDO is managed by Wyndham Vacation Resorts: Balcony; Fully equipped kitchen; Washer and...

tugbbs.com

 

[am1]

If you have to ask you probably are a mega renter. I am sure Wyndham has some metrics to define a "mega-renter" or the "little guy". It is all fun and games until Wyndham pulls the rug but like Jan said it is their club and they can change the rules without regard for what was promised or sold as a benefit. My advice for all the owners that rent points is to ride it as hard as you can until the music stops. Hopefully you can negotiate a exit comparable to what @ronparise or @am1 received.

Not sure what deal others got but I would not count on it as an exit strategy. A nice bonus maybe but a long shot for sure. Much more complicated then just them to get rid of a mega renter. Dollars and sense I was constantly upgrading the smallest unit at half points to the largest units. 2-3 hours on the phone each day with VCs every issue es escalated to owner relations. Deal looks a lot better now post Covid.

 

[ladawgfan]

As has been indicated before, there are significant differences between the “email version” of the restrictions versus the website version. I’m not in favor of either, as I am one of those “megarenters" who paid $000’s of dollars to Wyndham over 30 years to reach Founder’s status, and was repeatedly told I could rent any points I owned to cover my maintenance fees. I understand the purchase contracts do not provide me with language to that effect, but I’m sure Wyndham would have a hard time defending this verbal promise made to 000’s of owners by Wyndham’s sales agents if they were to be challenged in a class action lawsuit. In addition, it’s likely Wyndham would be unable to defend the specific language in the email version of the restrictions, as many owners including myself never received these directly from Wyndham and Wyndham’s own vacation counselors apparently don’t fully understand how the guest rules are to be applied on a consistent basis.

The “website” version of the restrictions makes no reference to guest reservations which overlap one of the restricted periods being limited to two per year. The language of that version indicates owners “may use two guest confirmations during the restricted dates.” I would argue that this language can be interpreted to permit two guest reservations during each of the restricted dates. In addition, it could also be argued that the two guest confirmations allowed may apply to each of the individual resorts within each restricted period. It seems to me this would go a long way toward providing more availability for owners at high demand resorts during peak periods, and make these restrictions somewhat more palatable to those who oppose them. Hopefully Wyndham will consider language to address the major injustice they have imposed on many of their owners.

Although irrelevant, my annual point allotment is a little over 8 million points and is only enough to cover my personal travel and annual maintenance fees. They do not provide me any recovery of my initial investment or a “commercial profit.” If any of the true “megarenters” were to bring such a lawsuit I would be happy to join and be willing to testify in any court proceedings.

 

[dioxide45]

Speaking the truth goes against sales weasel training. They are trained to say whatever it takes to make a sale. They can get away with it because if you decide to buy based on what you were told, as soon as you sign the contract Wyndham is off the hook for the promises made. There is a disclaimer in the contract that basically states, any promises made are moot unless they are spelled out in the contract.

Contracts don't always protect those who wrote them. Diamond had to pay out a lot of money to the state of Arizona because of their sales practices. If it can be proven that people were told of a specific benefit that didn't exist and the issue was systemic, then they are going to have a hard time getting their contract to hold up.

 

[bnoble]

I’m sure Wyndham would have a hard time defending this verbal promise made to 000’s of owners by Wyndham’s sales agents if they were to be challenged in a class action lawsuit.

People have tried this before, and AFAIK none of them have been successful. That doesn't mean it can't happen, because past performance doesn't guarantee future results. But I know which way I'd be betting.

 

[paxsarah]

I would argue that this language can be interpreted to permit two guest reservations during each of the restricted dates. In addition, it could also be argued that the two guest confirmations allowed may apply to each of the individual resorts within each restricted period.

That…is quite a stretch.

 

[dgalati]

Not sure what deal others got but I would not count on it as an exit strategy. A nice bonus maybe but a long shot for sure. Much more complicated then just them to get rid of a mega renter. Dollars and sense I was constantly upgrading the smallest unit at half points to the largest units. 2-3 hours on the phone each day with VCs every issue es escalated to owner relations. Deal looks a lot better now post Covid.

They did you a favor. I also know I dodged a bullet when they shut my gig down the fall of 2019. If I wasn't shut down I would of been sitting on 1 million points that I couldn't strip and flip. It would have been a expensive year paying maintenance fees with no where to travel. Thank you Wyndham for the orderly exit. Last deeds I had transferred out in Feb of 2020.

 

[55plus]

So, you are a renter? Wow. I never would have guessed that.

Wyndham Glacier Canyon - 4th of July Week (7 nights) - July 2-9, 2021

WISCONSIN DELLS - the Waterpark Capital of the World - Best prices in in town. . . *** JULY 2-9, 2021 - 7 Nights: 1 Bedroom Deluxe Condo (Sleeps 4) for $700 (equates to $25 per night/per person) ** The CONDO is managed by Wyndham Vacation Resorts: Balcony; Fully equipped kitchen; Washer and...

tugbbs.com

It was to late to cancel (within 15 days), so I rented it to offset the points I was losing.

 

[wjappraise]

It was to late to cancel (within 15 days), so I rented it to offset the points I was losing.

And that’s your right as an owner.

Even though it was during the most popular time for Glacier Canyon. I’m glad you were able to salvage something

 

[ilya]

It was to late to cancel (within 15 days), so I rented it to offset the points I was losing.

I thought you said you had a hard time getting prime weeks... Isn't that week considered prime?

 

[55plus]

I thought you said you had a hard time getting prime weeks... Isn't that week considered prime?

That was a cancellation I picked up a few weeks ago. I was able to pick up a 4 bedroom since then so I cancelled the 1 bedroom. A 4 bedroom works out better. Now I can take nieces and nephews.

 

[Cyrus24]

That was a cancellation I picked up a few weeks ago. I was able to pick up a 4 bedroom since then so I cancelled the 1 bedroom. A 4 bedroom works out better. Now I can take nieces and nephews.

You did not cancel the 1BR, you RENTED it. Seems that you've been all over the renters in the string, working with Michael Brown to shut it all down.. And,, now, we find out that you are a renter. I'm ok with it, I need to get rid of points from time to time.

 

[55plus]

You did not cancel the 1BR, you RENTED it. Seems that you've been all over the renters in the string, working with Michael Brown to shut it all down.. And,, now, we find out that you are a renter. I'm ok with it, I need to get rid of points from time to time.

Like I previously stated, it was past the drop dead date so instead of taking a loss I rented it to recoup something from the points I lost. It was a $1000 to $1500 rental over the 4th of July, but I'm not greedy so I let it go for $700 on TUG.

 

[Cyrus24]

Like I previously stated, it was past the drop dead date so instead of taking a loss I rented it to recoup something from the points I lost. It was a $1000 to $1500 rental over the 4th of July, but I'm not greedy so I let it go for $700 on TUG.

And, I'm very much OK with what you did. My point was that you've been trying to shut down rentals and all the while you've been a renter through the years (for whatever reason). We all have a reason to be a renter from time to time. And, this is why many are having trouble with the blackout rules you are trying so hard to have expanded. I have absolutely no problem with you being a renter.