Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[rickandcindy23]

Screenshot of reply from Michael Brown, Wyndham CEO, to my email, subject line: Wyndham got it right this time!

View attachment 36900

Oh, good! I know I am just so grateful that Michael Brown, a billionaire that makes his money off of owners, agrees that we need to no longer have guests at the resorts, just owners. That is not how they sold it in 2007 and 2008.

 

[55plus]

I am surprised that there is no software to book these last minute deals.
https://saltriverfields.com/

I love tacos. If tacos were a vegetable they would be my favorite vegetable.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Oh, good! I know I am just so grateful that Michael Brown, a billionaire that makes his money off of owners, agrees that we need to no longer have guests at the resorts, just owners. That is not how they sold it in 2007 and 2008.

While Michael Dean Brown certainly isn’t hurting for money, he’s certainly nowhere close to the billionaire club from what I can see, not even remotely close in point of fact.

President and Chief Executive Officer Michael D. Brown salary at TRAVEL PLUS LEISURE CO | Salary.com

Salary, bonuses, stock options and other compensation for Michael D. Brown, President and Chief Executive Officer at TRAVEL PLUS LEISURE CO. How much did Michael D. Brown make in 2023

www1.salary.com

Michael Brown Net Worth (2024) – wallmine.com

Michael has made over <b>6 trades</b> of the Wyndham Destinations Inc stock since 2018, according to the Form 4 filled with the SEC. Most recently he bought <b>4,500 units of WYND stock worth $122,760 on 31 July 2020</b>.

wallmine.com

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[troy12n]

Theory: If renters become discouraged and decide to divest some or all of their ownership through Ovations, Wyndham is a big winner. Way bigger than any purported benefit to the "little guy." Only the naive can discount this as a possible motivation for the restrictions, with the "little guy" a secondary beneficiary.

IF that happens... why do any of us care? You specifically mentioned helping the little guy. If a mega renter exits, and Wyndham gets points back to re-sell to some new buyer that does not affect you or me negatively one bit. If anything, it helps us likely by not having to compete with someone who knows how to most efficiently get units, owns 10,000,000 points and is making multi-week reservations at the high demand resorts and then hawking them online. The average CWA buyer Wyndham is selling units to owns less than 200k points and maybe takes one vacation a year in the system. I would rather compete with these type owners...

Current open reservations: Cypress Palms (2), Star Island (2), Santa Barbara, Skyline Tower, Patriots' Place, Austin. None less than a full week. No Fairfield Glade. Biggest reason I don't have more reservations is that I'm running out of points for 2021 (135K remaining). Any reservations that meet the time and price requirements are on LMR.

Thanks. The Orlando resorts and Patriots Place are usually not hard to get reservations at, i'm not sure about Santa Barbara and Skyline Tower.

 

[chapjim]

IF that happens... why do any of us care? You specifically mentioned helping the little guy. If a mega renter exits, and Wyndham gets points back to re-sell to some new buyer that does not affect you or me negatively one bit. If anything, it helps us likely by not having to compete with someone who knows how to most efficiently get units, owns 10,000,000 points and is making multi-week reservations at the high demand resorts and then hawking them online. The average CWA buyer Wyndham is selling units to owns less than 200k points and maybe takes one vacation a year in the system. I would rather compete with these type owners...



Thanks. The Orlando resorts and Patriots Place are usually not hard to get reservations at, i'm not sure about Santa Barbara and Skyline Tower.

You said, "I'm open to hear your theories on how this move in any way helped anyone BUT "the little guy." I showed you how one other entity stands to benefit "hugely."

Since Wyndham management is supposed to increase value to its stockholders and has no such duty to "little guys," one could infer that corporate profits were the primary motivation for Wyndham's actions. How convenient that they had the "little guy" around so they could spin the move.

I know you don't care. I know others do. But, that's a different matter than who stands to benefit.

You're right about Star Island and Cypress Palms, both perfectly nice resorts. (I'm going to check one of them out next week.) Traditionally, they have been slower to fill than Bonnet Creek. When people start realizing Bonnet Creek is not available except to owners, I suspect demand for Star Island and Cypress Palms will increase.

 

[dgalati]

IF that happens... why do any of us care? You specifically mentioned helping the little guy. If a mega renter exits, and Wyndham gets points back to re-sell to some new buyer that does not affect you or me negatively one bit. If anything, it helps us likely by not having to compete with someone who knows how to most efficiently get units, owns 10,000,000 points and is making multi-week reservations at the high demand resorts and then hawking them online. The average CWA buyer Wyndham is selling units to owns less than 200k points and maybe takes one vacation a year in the system. I would rather compete with these type owners...

Sounds a little selfish. What @chapjim was saying its really not to help the little guy. Ovations is touted as a way to help owners from being taken advantage of from the exit teams. In reality it is probably why we have no new resorts and is one of the most profitable ways to receive inventory. Free inventory to sell at $150//1000 to start a new cycle over and over again.

 

[chapjim]

The policy is not intended to eliminate renters or mega-renting. A very few resorts are affected for a very few timeframes during the year. There are still ample opportunities for anyone to book and rent reservations to cover their maintenance fees.

All the scare tactics (by renters) and debunked Extra Holidays conspiracy theories are a tempest in a teapot.

Fifty-three resorts are on the restricted list, not "a very few." At least eight holiday or event periods are affected. For some resorts, every weekend July-October is restricted. For sure there are lots of open periods at other resorts but it is not accurate to say very few timeframes are affected.

 

[ilya]

Fifty-three resorts are on the restricted list, not a very few. At least eight holiday or event periods are affected. For some resorts, every weekend July-October is restricted. For sure there are lots of open periods at other resorts but it is not accurate to say very few timeframes are affected.

I would also say this may help the all resale points owners.. More inventory for them while only paying pennies for their contract...

 

[dgalati]

I would also say this may help the all resale points owners.. More inventory for them while only paying pennies for their contract...

I agree. Its a win - win for my travel needs. Book my own points at 13 months. In the 60 day window look for a VIP to rent for less then my costs. Cancel my reservation and hope for a free room upgrade. Problem is to many owners have more points then they can use which leads to discounted rentals. But what do I know owning at Canterbury for only $3.70/1000

 

[Cyrus24]

Not changing the subject, merely sharing an observation. There are NO WBC rooms available in Extra Holidays on blackout dates. I noticed this a couple days ago and checked again tonight. Perhaps Wyndham is following the same rules that the rest of us are being told to follow. NO GUESTS at certain resorts on certain dates. If this remains the case, KUDOS to Wyndham, they are sucking up lost rental revenue just like they expect members with extra points to suck it up. Has Wyndham been cancelling contracts with owners on EH listings?

 

[SueDonJ]

[Moderator Note: A number of posts in this thread have been reported by multiple TUGgers. The TUG Rules include a "Be Courteous" section if you need a refresher. I've deleted the reported posts but expect that this forum's moderator will be taking a closer look. Please, get back on track or you risk getting this thread locked.] <-- SueDonJ

 

[dgalati]

Not changing the subject, merely sharing an observation. There are NO WBC rooms available in Extra Holidays on blackout dates. I noticed this a couple days ago and checked again tonight. Perhaps Wyndham is following the same rules that the rest of us are being told to follow. NO GUESTS at certain resorts on certain dates. If this remains the case, KUDOS to Wyndham, they are sucking up lost rental revenue just like they expect members with extra points to suck it up. Has Wyndham been cancelling contracts with owners on EH listings?

The only thing Wyndham is sucking up is free inventory from Ovations.

 

[dgalati]

I love tacos. If tacos were a vegetable they would be my favorite vegetable.

The following weekend is the balloon festival. Great area to visit. Unfortunately Wyndham owners have no availability at this Worldmark resort.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Perhaps Wyndham can implement a waitlist process. I thought they talked about that. They could allow one or two per member, something like that, and if someone cancels something you want, you might get it.

Disney and WorldMark both have a waitlist capability. You can only have one with Disney, not sure about WorldMark.

I think we have more than one Wyndham employee on TUG that might see this suggestion.

Our daughter gets almost everything within 60 days for the discount. She rarely, if ever, pays full points for anything. The inventory was there for you all as well. I don't get the animosity toward "mega renters." We do not own 60 million points as some do. I think that would be a very scary amount of MF's, which is why I know of one couple who bailed on their multiple platinum accounts. They bailed because they were saving themselves from this debacle we are seeing right now. They saw it all happening. They are friends of ours. When Voyager hit, they got out of the game.

I suppose other resort systems have the same issues. Like Marriott, for example. Everyone wants Hawaii, so let's say there is a shortage of Hawaii, especially oceanfront views. So there could be some people who complain about that. And then they see Hawaii on II, too, and they are bitter because why is that inventory on II (well some owners aren't DC and deposit separately, maybe). What if a lot more people that own DC want Hawaii during whale season/spring break/ summer break/ holidays but not everyone can get it. But if you buy in Hawaii, you don't have to worry about it, you get priority for Hawaii. If you don't grab that Hawaii inventory during your window of opportunity, you are with everyone else and have to keep watching for cancellations.

Same with Wyndham. You get priority into your home resorts. We own a lot of home resorts in our ownership, like Kingsgate, Branson Meadows, Bali Hai, Shearwater... So we can book those ahead of others. But if we want to wait for the 60-day window to get the discount promised at the sales' table, then we take our chances, right? That's no different from Marriott, except there are no discounts with Marriott.

I am learning all about Marriott for a purchase soon. So I am just thinking ahead on it.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Perhaps Wyndham can implement a waitlist process. I thought they talked about that. They could allow one or two per member, something like that, and if someone cancels something you want, you might get it.

Disney and WorldMark both have a waitlist capability. You can only have one with Disney, not sure about WorldMark.

I think we have more than one Wyndham employee on TUG that might see this suggestion.

We’ve had this on our tracking sheet as an enhancement request since last year - to offer an “ongoing search” capability similar to what’s available via RCI. IMHO it would be a big win for owners especially when looking for inventory at popular resorts during prime/high seasons.


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[SueDonJ]

... Same with Wyndham. You get priority into your home resorts. We own a lot of home resorts in our ownership, like Kingsgate, Branson Meadows, Bali Hai, Shearwater... So we can book those ahead of others. But if we want to wait for the 60-day window to get the discount promised at the sales' table, then we take our chances, right? That's no different from Marriott, except there are no discounts with Marriott.

I am learning all about Marriott for a purchase soon. So I am just thinking ahead on it.

FYI, Marriott's Destination Club points system does have discounts, based on membership status. For Presidential and Chairman's Club members it's 30% at the 60-day window, for Executive members it's 25% at the 30-day window.

 

[Ty1on]

We’ve had this on our tracking sheet as an enhancement request since last year - to offer an “ongoing search” capability similar to what’s available via RCI. IMHO it would be a big win for owners especially when looking for inventory at popular resorts during prime/high seasons.


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It was supposed to be part of the Voyager rollout IIRC from threads here, I guess they couldn't make it work.

It would pretty much be the last nail in the coffin of book-cancel-rebook and book-book-cancel-cancel-rebook-upgrade.

 

[pedro47]

Sound liked Wyndham will not be advertising timeshare holidays weeks and weekends to non Wyndham owners. LOL.

 

[dgalati]

Perhaps Wyndham can implement a waitlist process. I thought they talked about that. They could allow one or two per member, something like that, and if someone cancels something you want, you might get it.

Disney and WorldMark both have a waitlist capability. You can only have one with Disney, not sure about WorldMark.

I think we have more than one Wyndham employee on TUG that might see this suggestion.

Our daughter gets almost everything within 60 days for the discount. She rarely, if ever, pays full points for anything. The inventory was there for you all as well. I don't get the animosity toward "mega renters." We do not own 60 million points as some do. I think that would be a very scary amount of MF's, which is why I know of one couple who bailed on their multiple platinum accounts. They bailed because they were saving themselves from this debacle we are seeing right now. They saw it all happening. They are friends of ours. When Voyager hit, they got out of the game.

I suppose other resort systems have the same issues. Like Marriott, for example. Everyone wants Hawaii, so let's say there is a shortage of Hawaii, especially oceanfront views. So there could be some people who complain about that. And then they see Hawaii on II, too, and they are bitter because why is that inventory on II (well some owners aren't DC and deposit separately, maybe). What if a lot more people that own DC want Hawaii during whale season/spring break/ summer break/ holidays but not everyone can get it. But if you buy in Hawaii, you don't have to worry about it, you get priority for Hawaii. If you don't grab that Hawaii inventory during your window of opportunity, you are with everyone else and have to keep watching for cancellations.

Same with Wyndham. You get priority into your home resorts. We own a lot of home resorts in our ownership, like Kingsgate, Branson Meadows, Bali Hai, Shearwater... So we can book those ahead of others. But if we want to wait for the 60-day window to get the discount promised at the sales' table, then we take our chances, right? That's no different from Marriott, except there are no discounts with Marriott.

I am learning all about Marriott for a purchase soon. So I am just thinking ahead on it.

The wait list feature for Worldmark is fantastic.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Screenshot of reply from Michael Brown, Wyndham CEO, to my email, subject line: Wyndham got it right this time!

View attachment 36900

In Michael Browns reply he states, Our intention is to maximize our owners(possibility) to get on vacation. If Wyndham was so worried about Owners getting on vacation, why is Wyndham on a mass campaign to rent out every weekend and every major holiday through VRBO,/Expedia? Go do a search for all major holidays across the map and you will see Wyndham Resorts everywhere. Wyndham has an agenda, use the pandemic as an excuse under the guise of helping owners vacation. By blacking out holiday dates they can grab all available inventory and control the market & price!

 

[dgalati]

In Michael Browns reply he states, Our intention is to maximize our owners(possibility) to get on vacation. If Wyndham was so worried about Owners getting on vacation, why is Wyndham on a mass campaign to rent out every weekend and every major holiday through VRBO,/Expedia? Go do a search for all major holidays across the map and you will see Wyndham Resorts everywhere. Wyndham has an agenda, use the pandemic as an excuse under the guise of helping owners vacation. By blacking out holiday dates they can grab all available inventory and control the market & price!

They do have a responsibility to maximize shareholders value.

 

[Jae1242]

Just called VC to get clarity on the new rules, and the recording said they are closed for 90 min company meeting. I guess they want to get everyone on the same page with how this is suppose to work (I hope!)

 

[9969hi]

I have a problem with these restrictions, I feel if you buy at a specific resort you own that right to stay there OR rent the reservation out if you do not want to use it that year, that should be your right as an owner.
I am a landlord who have several tenants who are not paying rent due to rental mortatorium , I cannot evict them.
I feel this restriction policy is a loss of a right as an owner of the property, if you are using points from another resort to make the reservation , maybe that's a different story, maybe wyndham owners should have priority over large owners.

 

[55plus]

In Michael Browns reply he states, Our intention is to maximize our owners(possibility) to get on vacation. If Wyndham was so worried about Owners getting on vacation, why is Wyndham on a mass campaign to rent out every weekend and every major holiday through VRBO,/Expedia? Go do a search for all major holidays across the map and you will see Wyndham Resorts everywhere. Wyndham has an agenda, use the pandemic as an excuse under the guise of helping owners vacation. By blacking out holiday dates they can grab all available inventory and control the market & price!

I recently checked Extra Holidays for rentals during the restricted timeframes and found no rentals at the subject resorts during the restricted timeframes. As for the other rental sites that Wyndham doesn't control, there may be rentals, but they are most likely from owners who are not aware of the restrictions. If Wyndham does rent during the restricted timeframe, which I don't think they will, owners might have a claim for damages through a class action.

 

[55plus]

I have a problem with these restrictions, I feel if you buy at a specific resort you own that right to stay there OR rent the reservation out if you do not want to use it that year, that should be your right as an owner.
I feel this restriction policy is a loss of a right as an owner of the property, if you are using points from another resort to make the reservation , maybe that's a different story, maybe wyndham owners should have priority over large owners.

Points are points so owners who use their points for personal travel shouldn't fall second to owners who use their points as a commercial venture. I commend Wyndham for reserving reservations to owners for personal travel during these high demand timeframes at high demand locations. The Wyndham directory states, commercial ventured are not permitted. Rentals are commercial ventures. The reason Wyndham isn't enforcing it is, if they did Wyndham Extra Holidays couldn't legally exist. So far as of two days ago Extra Holidays hasn't listed anything at a restricted resort during the restricted timeframe.