What do you think about personal responsibility and following guidelines?

[WVBaker]

And here we go, down the rabbit hole leading to inevitable locking of this thread.

Instead of correcting my failure, you simply insult me. This is not the way to convince me that I'm wrong; instead, it simply tells me you are incapable of civil discussion.

Come on, many would say the same about you "Ken". I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong, even though you are. What would we call "incapable of civil discussion"? Wait, it's coming to me..... oh yea, insult!

 

[Ken555]

Wondering if the use of the word "you" should be banned from a post such as this. When I express my own feelings it is the word "I " that indicates my point of view. As soon as I introduce the word "you" -- I have drifted away from my own thoughts and feelings -- and may open the door to negative comments directed towards another.

Taken out of context, I would agree with you. In this case, I'm responding to a previous post where "you" is appropriate since it's only directed at one person. (Also notice that the previous post included the word "you" (referencing me), yet you didn't choose to admonish him. I wonder why you thought it only appropriate to select me for this criticism...and yes, another "you").

 

[Ken555]

Come on, many would say the same about you "Ken". I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong, even though you are. What would we call "incapable of civil discussion"? Wait, it's coming to me..... oh yea, insult!

We're not talking about others, we're talking about this particular thread and this discussion. You continue to ignore the issue at hand, and instead are trying to make this about me and my interpretation of historical events as they are applied to current events. I've asked you to correct me, and you still won't do so. I'm asking nicely for you to stay on topic. Please.

 

[jjking42]

The mask causes my glasses to fog up and so I could accidentally get in a car wreck and kill some one. Now I am just stirring the pot.

If you want to wear a mask wear one if you don’t want to then don’t. Everyone has to be prepared to live with the consequences of their own actions. It could mean a fine , jail or even living with the knowledge that you infected someone you love. Still a personal choice and maybe nothing happens.

We have a speed limit. I can chose to obey it or not. If I speed I could get in a wreck and die, get a ticket, or hurt others. I could also be practicing safe driving and get hit by a drunk driver and die. We make life and death choices every day.

I have nine cousins and two of them have the Covid. Thats over 20% One is in a hospital in Dallas and another is fighting it at home in S.C. Both in mid fifties with mild case of pneumonia. I expect both to fully recover but if not than I will cry at the funerals but I will not blame anyone for thier deaths.

I am not afraid of death. I believe God is in charge and when it’s my time nothing will change that. In the mean time I will try to be as healthy as I can.

I watched both my parents die young from cancer mom at 49 dad at 62. After watching them suffer I care more about the quality of life than length of life. Personally don’t think I will see my 80’s. But if I can walk, poop, and eat on my own I am ok with it.

Look at the deaths from the flu in 2017-2018. It was a bad year for the flu but we are used to the flu. We know that it kills people and even when we have a vaccine some will choose not to take it. Their choice.

Covid is very contagious and people will die from it. Do what you think is best. Determine for yourself what is an acceptable risk for yourself and others. Don’t be afraid. Just take it one day at a time !!!




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[Ken555]

Fair enough. I was just trying to indicate that I don't need anyone lecturing me on why senior facilities need these rules. I think 99.9% would understand why there are such strict rules around them.

Unfortunately, senior facilities are facing their toughest challenge with C19. It's quite sad how some are handling it, and yet it's also somewhat understandable.

 

[WVBaker]

We're not talking about others, we're talking about this particular thread and this discussion. You continue to ignore the issue at hand, and instead are trying to make this about me and my interpretation of historical events as they are applied to current events. I've asked you to correct me, and you still won't do so. I'm asking nicely for you to stay on topic. Please.

I tried to but, it seems to be a lost cause. Do us both a favor, if you don't like what I post, there's this thing called "ignore". Take it as you must, it's just a suggestion.

 

[dioxide45]

If a mask is considered PPE. That means personal protective? Based on what we are now being told about masks, it seems that it instead should be considered EEPE, Everyone Else's Protective Equipment?

 

[Ken555]

I tried to but, it seems to be a lost cause. Do us both a favor, if you don't like what I post, there's this thing called "ignore". Take it as you must, it's just a suggestion.

I don't see any post from you explaining why Patrick Henry's remarks in 1775 are applicable to current events. Did I miss it?

Asking me to ignore you simply validates my previous assumption that you are incapable of civil discourse. Instead, you immediately respond with personal attacks and an attempt at humor, no doubt to deflect from my justified opinion. Prove me wrong.

 

[WVBaker]

The mask causes my glasses to fog up and so I could accidentally get in a car wreck and kill some one. Now I am just stirring the pot.

If you want to wear a mask wear one if you don’t want to then don’t. Everyone has to be prepared to live with the consequences of their own actions. It could mean a fine , jail or even living with the knowledge that you infected someone you love. Still a personal choice and maybe nothing happens.

We have a speed limit. I can chose to obey or or not. If I speed I could get in a wreck and die, get a ticket, or hurt others. I could also be practicing safe driving and get hit by a drunk driver and die. We make life and death choices every day.

I have nine cousins and two of them have the Covid. Thats over 20% One is in a hospital in Dallas and another is fighting it at home in S.C. Both in mid fifties with mild case of pneumonia. I expect both to fully recover but if not than I will cry at the funerals but I will not blame anyone for thier deaths.

I am not afraid of death. I believe God is in charge and when it’s my time nothing will change that. In the mean time I will try to be as healthy as I can.

I watched both my parents die young from cancer mom at 49 dad at 62. After watching them suffer I care more about the quality of life than length of life. Personally don’t think I will see my 80’s. But if I can walk, poop, and eat on my own I am ok with it.

Look at the deaths from the flu in 2017-2018. It was a bad year for the flu but we are used to the flu. We know that it kills people and even when we have a vaccine some will choose not to take it. Their choice.

Covid is very contagious and people will die from it. Do what you think is best. Determine for yourself what is an acceptable risk for yourself and others. Don’t be afraid. Just take it one day at a time !!!




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Well, well, a voice of reason. Thank you.

 

[VacationForever]

I believe masks do protect both ways. I don't understand why CDC could not make it clearer. When you are wearing one, it protects others against your germs and it also protects you against germs from others. The effectiveness of the mask depends on material used as well as usage... there is no protection when it is simply covering the mouth or if it is very loosely fitted.

From what I know, N95 masks are in severe shortage but 3-ply surgical masks are not. Heck, I know of one nurse who took boxes of 3-ply masks from the hospital to distribute to her close family. She posted on FB.

 

[Ken555]

If you want to wear a mask wear one if you don’t want to then don’t. Everyone has to be prepared to live with the consequences of their own actions. It could mean a fine , jail or even living with the knowledge that you infected someone you love. Still a personal choice and maybe nothing happens.

We have a speed limit. I can chose to obey or or not. If I speed I could get in a wreck and die, get a ticket, or hurt others. I could also be practicing safe driving and get hit by a drunk driver and die. We make life and death choices every day.

This is a horrible analogy. Driving faster than the speed limit could result in an accident harming others. However, it's not going to result in those you hurt also hurting others (directly). With C19, if you infect others they have a chance to infect others, and so on and so on.

 

[TravelTime]

I understand that the government is recommending masks because they might work to reduce the spread of the virus. I think if the government wants higher compliance, they need to make it mandatory. For people who feel it is an ethical and moral obligation to wear a mask, I think it might be a good idea to contact your local politicians and ask them to pass laws about it. Right now, some cities/counties have laws. Others do not. Then we can end the mask debate and just fine people who break the law.

 

[TravelTime]

This is a horrible analogy. Driving faster than the speed limit could result in an accident harming others. However, it's not going to result in those you hurt also hurting others (directly). With C19, if you infect others they have a chance to infect others, and so on and so on.

I thought it was a great analogy. I think the point was about how one person's actions affect another person.

 

[TravelTime]

I believe masks do protect both ways. I don't understand why CDC could not make it clearer. When you are wearing one, it protects others against your germs and it also protects you against germs from others. The effectiveness of the mask depends on material used as well as usage... there is no protection when it is simply covering the mouth or if it is very loosely fitted.

From what I know, N95 masks are in severe shortage but 3-ply surgical masks are not. Heck, I know of one nurse who took boxes of 3-ply masks from the hospital to distribute to her close family. She posted on FB.

Masks are still hard to get. I ordered both 3 ply masks and cloth bandanas a few weeks ago and they have still not been delivered. The date was between May and June. In the meantime, I was using a scarf. Then at the lab on Friday, they gave me a paper mask to use but I only have one.

 

[Cornell]

This is a horrible analogy. Driving faster than the speed limit could result in an accident harming others. However, it's not going to result in those you hurt also hurting others (directly). With C19, if you infect others they have a chance to infect others, and so on and so on.

I think it’s a wonderful analogy as well. Life is full of risk . Sometimes to others.

 

[WVBaker]

I don't see any post from you explaining why Patrick Henry's remarks in 1775 are applicable to current events. Did I miss it?

Asking me to ignore you simply validates my previous assumption that you are incapable of civil discourse. Instead, you immediately respond with personal attacks and an attempt at humor, no doubt to deflect from my justified opinion. Prove me wrong.

It's said when proven wrong, the wise man will correct himself and the ignorant will keep arguing. Our la contesa is no longer fun.

 

[Ken555]

I understand that the government is recommending masks because they might work to reduce the spread of the virus. I think if the government wants higher compliance, they need to make it mandatory. For people who feel it is an ethical and moral obligation to wear a mask, I think it might be a good idea to contact your local politicians and ask them to pass laws about it. Right now, some cities/counties have laws. Others do not. Then we can end the mask debate and just fine people who break the law.

Laws aren’t always necessary...and shouldn’t be needed in this case.


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[jjking42]

Not a perfect analogy but either way you have choose to obey the rules or not obey the rules and be prepared to live with the consequences.

I taught my kids you have the right to chose to obey the law or not obey the law. But you don’t get to choose the consequences that result from your choice.

I am not in the business of judging others. If I see you with or without a mask that’s your choice. I don’t know you or your situation so I am not about to judge you.


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[Ken555]

I thought it was a great analogy. I think the point was about how one person's actions affect another person.

A car accident does not start a possible exponential increase in other car accidents.


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[Ken555]

It's said when proven wrong, the wise man will correct himself and the ignorant will keep arguing. Our la contesa is no longer fun.

Once again, you insult me and refuse to discuss the issue. I now suspect you simply can’t defend your position.


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[TravelTime]

Laws aren’t always necessary...and shouldn’t be needed in this case.


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It is obviously needed if the majority of people are not wearing masks. Some governments have passed laws so they thought it was needed. If you want higher compliance, you need laws. How many people would have complied as well as they did if more businesses were open during Shelter in Place? We needed laws to get higher compliance with SIP. Personally I am not in favor of the laws but I do see them as a good way to get compliance if the government deems it essential to wear a mask.

 

[TravelTime]

A car accident does not start a possible exponential increase in other car accidents.


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I do not think that was the point he was making.

 

[Ken555]

I do not think that was the point he was making.

And that is why it was not a good analogy. I understood the point of the message, as I’m sure we all did, but the analogy itself was flawed.


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[VacationForever]

Masks are still hard to get. I ordered both 3 ply masks and cloth bandanas a few weeks ago and they have still not been delivered. The date was between May and June. In the meantime, I was using a scarf. Then at the lab on Friday, they gave me a paper mask to use but I only have one.

There are many suppliers which ship directly from China, you have to find the companies which ship from the US.

 

[TravelTime]

Maybe a better analogy is wearing condoms to prevent HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. But that is not mandatory by law. It would be impossible to track LOL. I bet if it were trackable, we would have a law about it. I read somewhere that masks are the new condoms.