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What do you think about personal responsibility and following guidelines?

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Monykalyn

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Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.... Riiiiiiight... this is no longer accurate the moment we learned that people can be infected and be asymptomatic.
Right-and the previous studies done with influenza-where you can still be infectious before symptoms-didn't show masks stopped transmission either. Heck even preliminary studies out of China on household groups - while showing probably asymptomatic (or more accurately-presymptomatic) transmission still didn't show 100% of all members who had contact with infectious people actually got infected either.

I find it confusing that this virus should be so contagious you risk instant plague/deaths upon others should someone choose to not wear a mask yet as the virus has been here for weeks longer than thought -->Shouldn't we have ALL become 100% infected while "asymptomatic"? Asymptomatic for months now, while being contagious the whole time, while in lockdown and self quarantine. Shows there is a whole heck of a lot we still don't know.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758 Interesting case study of a nursing home study with asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission. The weakness here-residents in a nursing facility are often in much closer contact than the general public currently is, and for obviously much longer duration as these residents are there 24/7. Authors didn't attempt to differentiate that.
 

TravelTime

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Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.... Riiiiiiight... this is no longer accurate the moment we learned that people can be infected and be asymptomatic.

It is still posted on their website and in more than one place.
 

jjking42

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Are you kidding? They’ve done so for decades! There are laws against unprotected sex by someone who knows they have a STD. For example: https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/transmitting-std-criminal-laws-penalties.htm


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Those laws are only enforceable if you knowingly had the disease and infected others. Most of the people walking around don't know if they have Covid or not. Their going to have a hard time prosecuting anyone let alone figuring out who to prosecute until such time as more people are tested. Going to the store without a mask and going to the store without a mask knowing you are infected with Covid are two completely different things.
Another analogy
1. Having sex unprotected with another not knowing if you have an STD. (Legal)
2. Having sex unprotected with another knowing you have an STD. (Reckless and illegal but your still free to choose)

Quote from the website you linked.
"However, if you are unknowingly infected with an STD, you cannot be found guilty of this crime. In order to convict you, a prosecutor must be able to show that you knew you had the disease and you intentionally exposed someone else to danger. Alternately, a prosecutor can show that, while knowing you had the disease, you were indifferent to the risk of exposing someone else and engaged in contact that recklessly endangered the other person.
If someone knowingly and intentionally infected another to cause death, then attempted murder charges are a possibility."

So the real question is not wearing a mask considered reckless endangerment of another person. If thier is a law that say's you must wear a mask then you have the choice to obey the law or not obey they law. But if you choose to not obey it you need to be prepared to face the conseqences whatever they may be. However you are entitled to your day in court and your opinion.
 

geekette

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Actually, the condom / mask analogy doesn't work. A condom protects those having sex, a mask protects people that happen to cross paths or airspace. Zero intimacy required. For most people, there will be more incidental, shared airspace encounters than sexual. At least in my grocery store.
 

TravelTime

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Are Face Masks the New Condoms?
If people with no symptoms are spreading the coronavirus, as some studies suggest, it may be time to give face masks the kind of advertising and promotion that support condoms as lifesavers.

Are face masks going to become like condoms — ubiquitous, sometimes fashionable, promoted with public service announcements? They should be, one virus researcher says, if early indications are correct in suggesting that Covid-19 is often spread by people who feel healthy and show no symptoms.

David O’Connor, who studies viral disease at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, said: “If a substantial amount of transmission occurs before people feel sick, how do you stop that? By the time people feel sick and seek care, all the testing and isolation in the world would be too little, too late.”

Dr. O’Connor, who researches H.I.V. and other viruses, including the new coronavirus, said some recent research had shifted his thinking about the current pandemic.

“H.I.V. is also spread while people feel fine,” he wrote in an email, “and consistent, correct condom use is a barrier to sexual virus transmission that works.”.....

 

TravelTime

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Actually, the condom / mask analogy doesn't work. A condom protects those having sex, a mask protects people that happen to cross paths or airspace. Zero intimacy required. For most people, there will be more incidental, shared airspace encounters than sexual. At least in my grocery store.

No analogy is going to be perfect. Frankly I still think the drunk driving analogy is a good one.
 

Ken555

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Those laws are only enforceable if you knowingly had the disease and infected others. Most of the people walking around don't know if they have Covid or not. Their going to have a hard time prosecuting anyone let alone figuring out who to prosecute until such time as more people are tested. Going to the store without a mask and going to the store without a mask knowing you are infected with Covid are two completely different things.
Another analogy
1. Having sex unprotected with another not knowing if you have an STD. (Legal)
2. Having sex unprotected with another knowing you have an STD. (Reckless and illegal but your still free to choose)

Quote from the website you linked.
"However, if you are unknowingly infected with an STD, you cannot be found guilty of this crime. In order to convict you, a prosecutor must be able to show that you knew you had the disease and you intentionally exposed someone else to danger. Alternately, a prosecutor can show that, while knowing you had the disease, you were indifferent to the risk of exposing someone else and engaged in contact that recklessly endangered the other person.
If someone knowingly and intentionally infected another to cause death, then attempted murder charges are a possibility."

So the real question is not wearing a mask considered reckless endangerment of another person. If thier is a law that say's you must wear a mask then you have the choice to obey the law or not obey they law. But if you choose to not obey it you need to be prepared to face the conseqences whatever they may be. However you are entitled to your day in court and your opinion.

The only point of my reply was to inform others that there are laws for this, and at least one person here did not know that. The applicability and likelihood of enforcing such laws was not the topic. FWIW, I agree with you.

This comes down to common sense and, of course, ethics. If you think there's a chance you may be asymptomatic and the likelihood exists that masks protect, at least somewhat, do you not have an ethical obligation to wear a mask to protect others? I think the discussion regarding confirmation that masks help prevent transmission is a distraction since once it's proven it's likely too late to save many people. Why not be slightly inconvenienced now based on the best information we have? I don't understand why some people insist on not wearing a mask when it will likely help.
 
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geekette

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....I don't understand why some people insist on not wearing a mask when it will likely help.

I think it is because it won't help Them, and some amount of disinterest in helping others.
 

jjking42

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I am OK with wearing masks. I went to drop off some packages today at the post office and I wore a mask. I used my personal hand sanitizer before I got back in the car. I saw people with and without masks, no problem. Their choice because its not the law here. The women that got in the car next to me did not have on a mask. Instead of thinking why is she not wearing a mask my thought was. " I wonder if she thinks I look stupid in this mask. ":ponder:

Wearing masks here has only become common place in the last two weeks it used to be about 20% . I would say 75% of the people now wear masks.
 

pittle

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We are careful, but not totally isolated - same as always!

I have always been a buyer - not a shopper, so it is in and out for me. I only go out if I really need something. Since retiring, I have become pretty much a homebody by choice. I do volunteer jobs that can be done from home using my computer and making a few phone calls. While we are in our 70's, we are very healthy. Neither of us have worn masks at the grocery. The 2 grocery stores near us are not usually busy and only a few shoppers have them on. Basically, just the staff wears masks. Our community has had very few cases of COVID-19.

Life has been pretty normal for our cul-de-sac as 3 of the 5 houses have work from home folks all the time, one stay at home mom and us - a retired couple. We watch out for one another It is not unusual for someone to text to tell you to check what is at your front door. Last weekend, I made pies for everyone, others have dropped off smoked ribs, great carne asada, homemade soup, etc. We watch the kids ride bikes and scooters out our office window each day. The 2 Kindergarten kiddos have learned to ride without training wheels in the past 2 weeks and we all went out to our front yards to cheer them on. We have always had some kind of event once a month - even now. The 10 adults may be in a giant circle chatting with the 9 kiddos riding around us. These events do not last as long as they used to, but we are communicating. That way we know what the needs are.

Our oldest son, wife & grandson live 3 blocks away and at least one pops over to see us once or twice a week and have for 9 years. This past weekend the grandson turned 21 so I baked a cake and we went to their house for burgers.

Our son flew to Palm Springs to pick up my youngest brother for a long weekend. This brother is newly retired, single and moved to Palm Springs from Atlanta back in October. So he is just there by himself and knows just a few folks who are all SIP. He was glad to get to have someone to talk to and eat with for a few days! Our son flew him back this morning..
 
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TUGBrian

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can we have just one thread that doesnt turn into a fight? maybe? be the sunflower in a world of weeds.
 

easyrider

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be the sunflower in a world of weeds

I like that Brian. I'm not exactly sure what it means but I like it.

You can follow the guidlines or follow the norm. Both are very acceptable to me. Currently in our county, hardly anyone is wearing masks anymore. The entire state will begin to open on May 4th, which is just in time for Cinco de Mayo, which oddly enough is sponsered by Corona Beer. :whooopie:

Bill
 

b2bailey

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Taken out of context, I would agree with you. In this case, I'm responding to a previous post where "you" is appropriate since it's only directed at one person. (Also notice that the previous post included the word "you" (referencing me), yet you didn't choose to admonish him. I wonder why you thought it only appropriate to select me for this criticism...and yes, another "you"). :)
Ken, just to clarify, my comment was not intended to be directed at "you" -- it was just where I happened to be when I got the reply button -- after trying to get through a series of posts that had started to sound more like a debate than the expression of personal thought responding to OP.
 

heathpack

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I have a friend who lives in Taiwan. He says everything is open, including gyms and restaurants. He says everyone wears a mask in public, everyone washes their hands a lot, and they practice social distancing as much as they can. He said his gym is cleaned meticulously, and non-stop. He said life there is as normal as it ever is. The difference, he says, is that the culture there is one of compliance with the Government, rather than individual freedoms.

Dave

This is why we can’t have nice things.

;)
 

Ken555

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JetBlue will require passengers to wear masks, other airlines will provide them for travelers amid coronavirus

"Wearing a face covering isn't about protecting yourself, it's about protecting those around you," said JetBlue's President Joanna Geraghty. "This is the new flying etiquette."

American Airlines and Delta Air Lines earlier Monday said they will require thousands of employees to wear face masks and provide masks for passengers.



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TravelTime

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This is why we can’t have nice things.

;)

I do not understand your post. Can you provide a little more info as to what you mean?
 

TravelTime

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I am getting a little frustrated with TUG. People have an attitude. They do not want to clarify what they mean. Then what good is TUG? If people are just posting snide remarks and comments that no one can easily understand, How is this helpful?
 
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