Vacation Club Points Survey

[Big Matt]

Right, but what would Marriott sell it for? That's where some of the fear you've been reading in these posts comes from. I'm sure some people will win and lose in this new system. My guess is that anyone who owns platinum, ocean front, anywhere will be way ahead.

BeachPlace platinum recently sold on Ebay for $6100. It has two views - ocean view and Intracoastal Waterway view. And newly decorated to boot. Does that mean 6100 points ... you'd have to save poitns for 5 years to get to Maui.

Brian

 

[CMF]

Exchange then Rent?

Your rights to reserve, occupy, rent or trade with any program you want to can't be altered by Marriott's new system.

But, will you be able to rent an exchange under the new system? What are the implications if it is not forbidden?

Charles

 

[tlwmkw]

I got this survey too...

I own 2 weeks- bought from developer before finding TUG. I thought the survey was way too long and quite confusing.

I also thought the new system, as they describe it, has some problems.

The big problem would be with MF's- DVC pay MF's per point but Marriott is by week and size of unit. So if you own a bronze week and get fewer points do you still pay the same MF as the Platinum owner of the same unit size?

Since I bought one of my weeks to use each year and not to trade I certainly wouldn't want to pay more money in order to join this point system. I assume many others would feel the same way- so would it become more difficult for me to keep getting my week (Platinum Hilton Head) if people using points are also trying to reserve what I am deeded to own? Would someone who owns a bronze week be able to book at the same time as me or would there be a time limit on them booking? DVC has the 11 and 7 month cutoffs but I still hear of people with DVC having trouble getting the time they want at their home resort. I see this as a big problem.

Another issue is all the extra costs they are trying to charge. If it is such a great system then they can pay for it themselves- I don't see why us owners who have already paid should have to subsidize Marriotts new system for them. Esp if you bought retail- I feel I have paid enough to Marriott and don't want to pay them any more than I have to.

 

[rsackett]

I took the survey and was never asked what I would be willing to pay.

What I could not figure out is why I would pay Marriott $159/year and then pay another fee to have priority at my home resort, when I can pay nothing and be guaranteed a week at my home resort now???

Ray

 

[timeos2]

I took the survey and was never asked what I would be willing to pay.

What I could not figure out is why I would pay Marriott $159/year and then pay another fee to have priority at my home resort, when I can pay nothing and be guaranteed a week at my home resort now???

Ray

If all you want to do is stay at the resort you own then buying into points makes zero sense.

Repeating a statement to those worried that the weeks formerly in the weeks pool suddenly are "unavailable to reserve my time" - they were unavailable when they were reserved in the 1st ten minutes and sent to II too. Nothing changes except which exchange system gets the inventory and that it WILL be removed in the 1st ten minutes. If enough high end time owners switch to points - the most likely due to the high point values assigned - then the pool of available weeks does shrink but you are still only competing with other weeks owners in that pool. Odds remain the same of getting the highest demand time and the need to act early each year to grab it.

 

[normab]

The flextrade (under 60 days) is an II animal, and has nothing to do with Marriott's new system.

Yes that's true. But it is not clear that it would remain as is if Marriott wants to change things. For instance, if someone put their week in as points, would it ever make it to II for the 60 day window? It's not clear that it would unless Marriott works out something to deposit excess availability with II. So that is where we are concerned that we might lose out.

 

[bookworm]

The way I read it the $159 could include several fees, possibly the II membership, transactions, lock-off fees (you have points so locking off is probably automatic). All in all, it might be a decent deal for those who usually trade anyway. Those using only their own unit every year may be able to opt out.

 

[PerryM]

Déjà vu all over again

Glad to see someone is finally listening to me

 

[thinze3]

BeachPlace platinum recently sold on Ebay for $6100. It has two views - ocean view and Intracoastal Waterway view. And newly decorated to boot. Does that mean 6100 points ... you'd have to save poitns for 5 years to get to Maui.

Brian

--------------------------> :O:

Got me. Right in the heart!


________________________________

Don't forget I also own Waiohai.

 

[JimIg23]

I re-read the survey, sounds like they already have point allocations fleshed out, but probably not finalized. 48k for a Hawaii 2 bedroom week, 28k for a Myrtle Beach Plat week 2 bedroom, 28k for a 1 bedroom Caribbean Platinum. Does not sound like the gold seasons will be that many points at all.

I don't think my MHZ Plat will be that high. I hope the NCV is better than what redweek values it or I am not going into it. I think I would rather take my chances trading in II.

 

[rsackett]

Once the new points system is up and running, do you think the 28 day Marriott trading priority will be gone in II?

Ray

 

[dougp26364]

If Marriott implements the above described Vacation Points Exchange Program, new properties may be sold within this program. Rather than selling a deeded week, Marriott would be offering a certain amount of Vacation Points for sale.These Vacation Points could then be used in the same way as you would use your Vacation Points if you enroll your week.

This one line I've put in bold scares me away from this program. Buying points instead of a deeded week. This sounds like a trust and a trust leaves the developer in compolete control. Bluegreen has done a decent job with their trust based system, Sunterra/DRI is actively killing it's members with it's trust based system (25% increase in MF's per trust point this year).

Once Marriott takes the deed out of the equation, you can write me off for joining this program. If they want to give me points based upon my deeded week and let me keep my deed, that's one thing. If they want me to pay them and give up my deed to join a trust based points system, they can forget it.

 

[JimIg23]

Once the new points system is up and running, do you think the 28 day Marriott trading priority will be gone in II?

Ray
As an owner, I hope not. If Marriott wanted to plays hardball to get people who only want to stay at Marriotts to join the point system, I think they would. It would hurt II. Maybe if owners complained alot they wont.

 

[JimIg23]

Repeating a statement to those worried that the weeks formerly in the weeks pool suddenly are "unavailable to reserve my time" - they were unavailable when they were reserved in the 1st ten minutes and sent to II too. Nothing changes except which exchange system gets the inventory and that it WILL be removed in the 1st ten minutes. .

My assumption is that if you join the point system, you get the points in the beginning of the year and Marriott take 1 week from the season you own. I own NCV Platinum. So if they take 1 week for my points, which week to do they take? (I dont think they will let us reserve a week, then get the points, so Marriott chooses the week they take) Lets say 100 owners take the points at the beginning of the year. Does Marriott take 100 summer NCV weeks or do they take the September months? If they take the prime weeks at NCV and not the non summer Platinum weeks, that would make it even harder to get summer months at NCV.

 

[VacationPro]

Once the new points system is up and running, do you think the 28 day Marriott trading priority will be gone in II?

Ray

I seriously doubt it. My bet is that the preference period will be shortened to something like the 3 day Starwood preference.

 

[davidvel]

But, will you be able to rent an exchange under the new system? What are the implications if it is not forbidden?

Charles

No one knows, but I was referring to if you were NOT part of Marriott's new system.

 

[davidvel]

Yes that's true. But it is not clear that it would remain as is if Marriott wants to change things. For instance, if someone put their week in as points, would it ever make it to II for the 60 day window? It's not clear that it would unless Marriott works out something to deposit excess availability with II. So that is where we are concerned that we might lose out.

I was responding to concerns about what would happen if you did not join the new system. I agree that any weeks deposited to Marriott's system that used to be deposited to II would likely not be availabe in II at all.

 

[davidvel]

Once the new points system is up and running, do you think the 28 day Marriott trading priority will be gone in II?

Ray
As an owner, I hope not. If Marriott wanted to plays hardball to get people who only want to stay at Marriotts to join the point system, I think they would. It would hurt II. Maybe if owners complained alot they wont.

Marriott has no control over this which is II's exchange policy. If II was smart they would increase the preference period to induce MORE Marriott owners to submit their weeks to II instead of Marriott's.

 

[JimC]

This one line I've put in bold scares me away from this program. Buying points instead of a deeded week. This sounds like a trust and a trust leaves the developer in compolete control. Bluegreen has done a decent job with their trust based system, Sunterra/DRI is actively killing it's members with it's trust based system (25% increase in MF's per trust point this year).

Once Marriott takes the deed out of the equation, you can write me off for joining this program. If they want to give me points based upon my deeded week and let me keep my deed, that's one thing. If they want me to pay them and give up my deed to join a trust based points system, they can forget it.

You can deed a points system. DVC already does it.

 

[timeos2]

No sales at DVC - only RTU

You can deed a points system. DVC already does it.

DVC records a RTU contract but it is NOT a deed as Disney will not sell property rights even in Celebration. It looks like a deed but its really a long term rental.

Systems can be sold as deeded ownership which converts to XX points. Wyndham, one of the Diamond systems & many others did that. It does not have to be a trust based product.

 

[JimC]

DVC records a RTU contract but it is NOT a deed as Disney will not sell property rights even in Celebration. It looks like a deed but its really a long term rental.

Systems can be sold as deeded ownership which converts to XX points. Wyndham, one of the Diamond systems & many others did that. It does not have to be a trust based product.

Celebration was de-annexed from RCID when it was developed and property rights were sold.

DVC is a deeded interest timeshare. The deeds are filed with the county property records. The underlying ground lease between DVD and WDW, the applicable Resort Agreement, the DVC Membership Agreement and the Master Cotenancy Agreement restrict ownership and control the reversion of the property rights at the appropriate termination date.

 

[dougp26364]

Celebration was de-annexed from RCID when it was developed and property rights were sold.

DVC is a deeded interest timeshare. The deeds are filed with the county property records. The underlying ground lease between DVD and WDW, the applicable Resort Agreement, the DVC Membership Agreement and the Master Cotenancy Agreement restrict ownership and control the reversion of the property rights at the appropriate termination date.

If there's a termination date, then it's not a traditional deeded ownership but a form of right to use. Deeded ownerships do not expire or terminate.

 

[JimIg23]

Marriott has no control over this which is II's exchange policy. If II was smart they would increase the preference period to induce MORE Marriott owners to submit their weeks to II instead of Marriott's.

I cant see Marriott not having some type of control over II's treatment of Marriott weeks. Who decides where a property is traded (such as RCI or II)? is it Marriott or the HOA?

 

[m61376]

I re-read the survey, sounds like they already have point allocations fleshed out, but probably not finalized. 48k for a Hawaii 2 bedroom week, 28k for a Myrtle Beach Plat week 2 bedroom, 28k for a 1 bedroom Caribbean Platinum. Does not sound like the gold seasons will be that many points at all.

I don't think my MHZ Plat will be that high. I hope the NCV is better than what redweek values it or I am not going into it. I think I would rather take my chances trading in II.

Is this really what they are proposing ? So, Platinum owners at Myrtle Beach would basically have to give up 2 years of use to trade into Hawaii for a week (or 8 days)? Or give up their 2 BR only to get a 1BR in St. Thomas, St. Kitts or Aruba?

How many MB owners (and I am assuming then GO, etc. owners) would join under these provisions?

And what valuation was hinted at for other weeks?

 

[JimC]

If there's a termination date, then it's not a traditional deeded ownership but a form of right to use. Deeded ownerships do not expire or terminate.

I never said it is a traditional deeded ownership, but it is deeded. There is requirement that a deed be in perpetuity.