Vacation Club Points Survey

[TRAVELING FOOL]

Marriott Point Sytem

My husband and I are current owners at the MGC and went to a presentation at the Marriott Beach Place last week. Strange that nothing was mentioned to us in regard to a possible change in the point system !

 

[JimC]

What I like about Marriott compared to DVC is that the maintenance fees for the larger units aren't anywhere near what DVC charges. You'll pay almost double in maintenance fees for a DVC 2 bedroom over an average Marriott (excluding the Hawaii Marriotts). You pay a premium in maintenance fees for a point system.

We own both DVC and Marriott. We usually stay in studios when we use our DVC points (to stretch the points) and when we trade our Marriott I lock it off and we get to stay in 1 and 2 bedrooms. It sounds like I may only be able to stay in Marriott efficiencies if they implement this points system. Especially if most resorts are assigned low values because they aren't in Hawaii.

That is because DVC can charge a premium for its product. Comparable resorts to compare would be OKW and CH where OKW costs more to buy and to own.

 

[JimC]

We have been DVC owners for over 15 years and love the flexibility and simplicity of the system. ...Exchanges into II are done primarily in one week increments, based on number of bedrooms and cost roughly what a 7 night stay at DVC would cost.....

Unlike MVCI where we have individual memberships in II and manager our own trades and can access the entire II inventory; DVC maintains a corporate membership in II and trades with a limited inventory are managed through DVC.

 

[JimC]

After reading the sections of the survey it struck me that this is mostly about revenue for Marriott and not about benefits for owners. Up front fees to convert and annual fees to use and if that is on a per week basis is going to be costly to some owners.

The points allocation does need to be done carefully to balance relative demand and therefore relative value. Otherwise the system will not work. But there are sufficient points programs and enough usage data for this to be done.

As others have said, the maintenance, taxes and reserves can be charged per point rather then per week.

I also prefer the flexibility of the DVC points program and that DVC does not impose nuisance fees to use what we bought. However, DVC does charge a hefty premium.

Unless someone can explain the value of paying more dollars to use what I already own, I don't see the reason to convert.

 

[dioxide45]

People seem worried that Marriott would take prime weeks before week owners could reserve them for the points system. Here is how I see it happening.

Everyone can still call in at 12 months, those using points use those points. Those using their weeks reserve their weeks. No weeks are pulled aside ahead of time for the points portion, once that week is booked it is booked in to the specific program. Some weeks may be set aside for the guarantee, but it sounded like there would be a limited percentage available for this.

If you want to deposit in II via points, Marriott just reserves the week they want and deposits it. A weeks owner just reserves themselves and deposits. The only problem is it really opens everything up to only one season. A silver owner can now book in platinum as long as they have enough points. So it may make getting that prime week tougher at the 12 month and it may leave a lot of silver weeks empty.

It is still just proposed and not implimented. It may not come to fruition. Though seeing how Marriott is needing to generate new income in this economy, they likely see this as a prime opportunity.

 

[davidvel]

One way to deal with MFs in a points system is to reallocate the annual fees based on the number of points...the more points you have the more you pay. Since the number of points will be assigned based on your ownership season and number of bedrooms, the silver and bronze weeks will be paying less fees than the Plat and Gold owners.

This would be a good way to do a points system planning it from the ground up. I hate to :deadhorse: but this cannot happen at MVCI resorts.

The allocation of maintentance fees are set forth in the deeded documents. It would require consent of the owners to change this allocation. Marriott cannot change these terms of the CC&Rs as part of its ancillary points exchange program. Marriott only manages the HOAs and is required to comply with the deeded documents.

 

[JimIg23]

No weeks are pulled aside ahead of time for the points portion, once that week is booked it is booked in to the specific program. Some weeks may be set aside for the guarantee, but it sounded like there would be a limited percentage available for this.

I probably worry about this the most. What if there are 1,000 MHZ owners that join the program and only 10 owners that join from NCV. Will that mean all of the points owners will have to vie for 10 NCV spots?

 

[dioxide45]

I probably worry about this the most. What if there are 1,000 MHZ owners that join the program and only 10 owners that join from NCV. Will that mean all of the points owners will have to vie for 10 NCV spots?

This is why they want to sell you a 3 year home resort guaranty.

 

[JimIg23]

This is why they want to sell you a 3 year home resort guaranty.

you got to love it, having to buy what you are deeded to have anyway

 

[GetawaysRus]

There were some comments above that a new Marriott point system might really hurt Interval International.

I wonder, however, if this proposed change might in some ways end up benefitting those MVCI owners who stay with the traditional weeks system and continue trading with Interval. Think in supply and demand terms. Demand from Interval for the weeks that we own might very well increase if fewer Marriott weeks become available to Interval. Could this result in greater trading power for those Marriott owners who stay with the old system, or perhaps more frequent offers of ACs? Could the trading value of non-platinum Marriott weeks increase? Trading through Interval into Marriott resorts might become more difficult, but perhaps trades to non-Marriott resorts would get easier?

In short, there could be some unexpected consequences.

 

[cigarboo]

This is why they want to sell you a 3 year home resort guaranty

Simply unbelievable!! Marriott wants to sell you something you should already have... the ability to book at your own resort. And they want us to pay extra to sign up for this crappy program?

For sure they've turned me off from them. I used to love Marriott and spoke highly of them to friends. I really like II and the 23 day Marriott priority. Was looking into buying at MOW, but ever since this talk of change in the trading system, I held off. Instead I just bought into DVC. Although it's a points system, it makes sense. It was a points system from the start and people just bought points with those having more points, pay more MF's. Trying to retro fit a points system into a weeks base system doesn't work well. All I see in this new system is more fees, more competition for those high demand weeks. You not only have to compete for desired weeks from your fellow owners, but also from people who don't own at your resort. Only Marriott is earning money. No way will I pay more money to convert to the points system. I'll just use my week every year and when I'm tired of it, I'll sell for what ever it fetches. I'd rather take a loss than throw good money after bad. I'll be done with timesharing. As they say,"All good things must come to an end."

 

[MOXJO7282]

There were some comments above that a new Marriott point system might really hurt Interval International.

I wonder, however, if this proposed change might in some ways end up benefitting those MVCI owners who stay with the traditional weeks system and continue trading with Interval. Think in supply and demand terms. Demand from Interval for the weeks that we own might very well increase if fewer Marriott weeks become available to Interval. Could this result in greater trading power for those Marriott owners who stay with the old system, or perhaps more frequent offers of ACs? Could the trading value of non-platinum Marriott weeks increase? Trading through Interval into Marriott resorts might become more difficult, but perhaps trades to non-Marriott resorts would get easier?

In short, there could be some unexpected consequences.

This is an interesting thought. I guess its a possibility.

Also I'm wondering what effect it has on the resale price of Marriott weeks. Under the same reasoning do they become more or less valuable? If future owners are points weeks, and some current owners convert to points, there will be less traditional weeks out there. You would think that is a good thing, under the laws of supply and demand.

Alot of things still need to be sorted out, but I wonder why any high-end owner would convert to points, and if they don't how will they have Maui weeks avaliable in the points program?

To me is seems like it will get a helluva lot harder to secure prime float week. Here's the scenerio that concerns me. Many non Maui owners go with the points. These owners all say they want to go to Maui Pres week and save their points, for how ever long to accumulate the necessary points. So now not only am I competing with other Maui owners for Pres week, I'm now competing with the other non-Maui owners who have saved their points to secure Maui Pres week. To address this will they have an off set as to how soon a non-Maui owner can reserve, let's say 9 months? If that is the case, then it could work, as the orginal Maui owners will still have priority.

This is what I need to know before I fear the points system. Otherwise I'm unaffected, becuase I have no need for the points system and wouldn't change my approach of renting and using my portfolio the way I always have.

Regards.
Joe

 

[CMF]

Funny thought of the day.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Marriott allotted points based on the price paid for the week? This would be fair; no? I suppose they could formulate some adjustment for inflation. And what would this do to those of us who bought bargains in the resale market?? I guess resale buyers would not be jumping into the points bandwagon like lemmings.

Charles

 

[JimIg23]

Maybe not price paid resale, but the price set by Marriott will definitely be a factor in the points. I don't see how they could justify giving the same number of points to a week that cost 40k to that which costs 25k, regardless of the location or season.

Resales will be interesting. What if they allow resales to buy in also. Will they change your deed? What if you join the point program (direct buyers or resale buyers) then need to resell your week? Will the sale be for the point based system or the regular week based system?

 

[Big Matt]

A lot of what makes the price go up is location, but the view at that property has a significant bump also. Frankly, I never get a great view as an exchanger anyway, so I'm used to it.

 

[normab]

We did not get the survey despite being multiple MVCI owners. We like spending a week or two away, so the partial week option does not appeal to us.

The main contention we would have is if they change/eliminate the 60 day trading window. We were sold one of our units this purpose only, and it made sense as long as the 60 day window exists. Marriott has unloaded many undesirable but lower cost weeks, marketed as just for this purpose. If we were to lose the ability to trade in the 60 day window we would be greatly disenchanted.

In the end, we would just want the choice. We are betting that many owners would decline and that could impact the viability.

 

[davidvel]

The main contention we would have is if they change/eliminate the 60 day trading window.

The flextrade (under 60 days) is an II animal, and has nothing to do with Marriott's new system.

 

[dioxide45]

The flextrade (under 60 days) is an II animal, and has nothing to do with Marriott's new system.

If fewer or no Marriott weeks are available in that 59 day window, it no longer makes it attractive.

 

[LAX Mom]

The flextrade (under 60 days) is an II animal, and has nothing to do with Marriott's new system.

While it's true that Flexchange refers to an II exchange within 59 days prior to check-in, Marriott could have their own type of Flexchange in their new program. If II or Marriott has weeks that are late deposits or cancellations it just makes sense to relax the restrictions to get those weeks. If you had to have great trading power for a Hawaii week even during Flexchange many weeks would sit empty.

Flexchange is a win/win situation for II and timeshare owners. II gets an exchange fee for a week that might otherwise not be used. A timeshare owner gets a great exchange at the last minute.

I hope Marriott will have some type of last minute deals for weeks that remain available 6-8 weeks prior to check-in.

Also, I assume II will still offer Flexchange, but there might not be many Marriotts available for exchange. That's okay with me, I've exchanged into Westin, Four Seasons, Hyatt & Fairfield during Flexchange. There are many other options besides Marriott!

 

[pwrshift]

BeachPlace platinum recently sold on Ebay for $6100. It has two views - ocean view and Intracoastal Waterway view. And newly decorated to boot. Does that mean 6100 points ... you'd have to save poitns for 5 years to get to Maui.

Brian

A lot of what makes the price go up is location, but the view at that property has a significant bump also. Frankly, I never get a great view as an exchanger anyway, so I'm used to it.

 

[LAX Mom]

BeachPlace platinum recently sold on Ebay for $6100. It has two views - ocean view and Intracoastal Waterway view. And newly decorated to boot. Does that mean 6100 points ... you'd have to save poitns for 5 years to get to Maui.

Brian

and pay 5 years of MF's for your exchange into Hawaii!!!!

 

[lovearuba]

Questions and comments on the survey

Hi
I started reading this thread and as with this website and others, its really hard to get to the facts but part of my confusion may be with this being a survey and not fact yet. I am hoping someone can answer a few basic questions for me.

1). Does Marriott indicate when they plan to move to a point based system

2) Do you get the impression that the resorts with higher maintenance fees would get more points than others. It makes sense to me, it should be harder to get into them and folks that are paying higher maintenance should get some advantage as well as those that have platinum seasons.

3) Any indication that you can just not join their point system and just use your week like you normally would and rent it if you want?

Thanks for the input.

 

[davidvel]

Hi. I started reading this thread and as with this website and others, its really hard to get to the facts but part of my confusion may be with this being a survey and not fact yet. I am hoping someone can answer a few basic questions for me.

You are correct that nothing is official and everyone is speculating.

1). Does Marriott indicate when they plan to move to a point based system

No. So far pure speculation.

2) Do you get the impression that the resorts with higher maintenance fees would get more points than others. It makes sense to me, it should be harder to get into them and folks that are paying higher maintenance should get some advantage as well as those that have platinum seasons.

You will get a million different impressions (see above posts). It would make sense, but its up to Marriott to configure its new system, and no one can tell you how it will end up. Remember, that this system cannot change how you use your week if you choose not to participate.

3) Any indication that you can just not join their point system and just use your week like you normally would and rent it if you want?

Your rights to reserve, occupy, rent or trade with any program you want to can't be altered by Marriott's new system.

 

[lovearuba]

thanks

Thanks for the speedy response. As long as I cant lose my right to use my unit I'm good.

 

[JimIg23]

and pay 5 years of MF's for your exchange into Hawaii!!!!

good point, if they make the point spread to high, it will be cheaper to rent.