Vacation Club Points Survey

[JimC]

Is this really what they are proposing ? So, Platinum owners at Myrtle Beach would basically have to give up 2 years of use to trade into Hawaii for a week (or 8 days)? Or give up their 2 BR only to get a 1BR in St. Thomas, St. Kitts or Aruba?

How many MB owners (and I am assuming then GO, etc. owners) would join under these provisions?

And what valuation was hinted at for other weeks?

In a points system you do not have weeks, only points. It becomes a "currency" or medium of exchange. The points equivalent for a week at a resort will vary based on the size, season and resort demand. It is likely that weekend points will be higher than weekday points to further balance demand.

If you buy into a points system you already know what the relative values are. But here we can only speculate. I expect that Marriott will have some sort of system wide points chart to share if/when they roll this out. I also hope they can keep it relatively simple.

 

[dougp26364]

In a points system you do not have weeks, only points. It becomes a "currency" or medium of exchange. The points equivalent for a week at a resort will vary based on the size, season and resort demand. It is likely that weekend points will be higher than weekday points to further balance demand.

If you buy into a points system you already know what the relative values are. But here we can only speculate. I expect that Marriott will have some sort of system wide points chart to share if/when they roll this out. I also hope they can keep it relatively simple.

That is not necessarily true for all points systems.

For instance, in DRI's THE Club, I have a point value assigned to my Suite's at Polo Towers week, which is a deeded week with a fixed week date. In order to convert that week to points, I must call DRI and release that unit to THE Club. Each year my week is automatcally reserved for me. If I don't want to use it and if I don't want to give it up for points in THE Club, I can still exchange it through I.I. as if I didn't belong to THE Club or DRI's points based internal exchange system.

I agree that they need to use the KISS principle. I've often said if you married Marriott's locations with Hilton's points based reservation system, they'd be the king. Note that Hilton's points system is JUST a points based reservation system. They still sell you a deeded week that has a points value. They do not sell points.

On the other hand, DRI's trust based system does sell you points instead of a deeded week. There is a definate difference. The DRI trust is different than THE Club. All trust members are members of THE Club but, all THE Club members are not trust based owners.

I really don't want Marriott selling points. I would prefer they sell deeded weeks and move towards a points based reservation system similar to Hilton's. I doubt very seriously if I'll give up my unit weeks for points and I'm certainly not in the mood to pay for the priviledge.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

I really don't want Marriott selling points. I would prefer they sell deeded weeks and move towards a points based reservation system similar to Hilton's. I doubt very seriously if I'll give up my unit weeks for points and I'm certainly not in the mood to pay for the priviledge.

Well stated.... I hope someone at Marriott is listening.

 

[IngridN]

Well stated.... I hope someone at Marriott is listening.

Just got back from vacation and have not yet checked my e-mail to see if we've received the survey. Discussed this thread with DH and as he stated "we've already paid for the TS once, why should we do so again...we also will not pay for the "priviledge."

 

[GrayFal]

This is why they want to sell you a 3 year home resort guaranty.

you got to love it, having to buy what you are deeded to have anyway

Simply unbelievable!! Marriott wants to sell you something you should already have... the ability to book at your own resort. And they want us to pay extra to sign up for this crappy program?

What I could not figure out is why I would pay Marriott $159/year and then pay another fee to have priority at my home resort, when I can pay nothing and be guaranteed a week at my home resort now???

This is what bothers me the most - in the Starwood program - home resort priority exists from 12 months to 8 months - when reservations are open to all SVN members......that is what makes people shell out big bucks to buy in Hawaii when they want to travel to Hawaii all the time - the ability to book their home resort ahead of all the other SVN owners.

Why does Marriott feel ANYONE would sign away their right to always be guaranteed their home resort ??? - that would be just plain crazy on an owners part to do that!

 

[GrayFal]

But, will you be able to rent an exchange under the new system? What are the implications if it is not forbidden?

Charles

Charles, in the SVN System you can use your points to reserve at other resorts at the 8 month mark and then rent it. Same with DVC, Wyndham and I imagine any other points system.

 

[saturn28]

I own Hyatt as well as Marriott. With Hyatt, a platinum week at any of their resorts is worth the same amount of points. There is no consideration on whether one resort sold platinum weeks at a higher price than another. This crap Marriott wants to do giving some platinum weeks more points than others is a rip off. People purchased their timeshare believing they would be able to trade into any of their resorts and receive the same size unit.

I will never join their points system especially if they are going to charge an extra fee. Marriott used to have a good name in the timeshare business, but the way they have been screwing their owners the last few years has changed that opinion. I no longer trust any change they are making because I know it is only being done to devalue what we presently own and increase their revenue.

I believe that Marriott looked at all the points based systems out there and will adopt all the parts that will give them the most revenue. They had no concern for nickel and dimming their owners to death or giving their present owners better value. In fact the more entry fees and service charges they can charge the better.

I bought my weeks based on the present format and all the sales pitches given by their sales people. If they want to change the rules now, they should not charge for entry into the new system for present owners. In addition, present owners should be able to keep everything we have now with regards to the trading format through Interval. That means keeping AC's, flexichange, and trading studios for 2 bedroom units in Hawaii or any other resort destination anything less is a rip off. I want what I was told I would get. If they try to do anything else, I can't wait until I attend another sales presentation and they try to sell me points. I will tell the salesperson what I think of Marriott.

 

[mamadot]

I bought all of my Marriott weeks resale and have not recieved a anything from Marriott yet on new program. At this point is it just those that bought from the developer getting this survey?

 

[FlyerBobcat]

I bought all of my Marriott weeks resale and have not recieved a anything from Marriott yet on new program. At this point is it just those that bought from the developer getting this survey?

No. I am not a Marriott owner (yet) and never have been. I know I am in Marriott's system, since I attended a TS presenatation in the past, and was a guest of a current owner while staying at Waiohai.

 

[SDKath]

I can't imagine anyone would purchase a low season at Marriott resorts in the future. Why would you buy a silver/bronze or even gold week and pay the same MF as the platinum owners?

With the current II system people were willing to pay the MF for a silver Marriott because they had a chance at an upgrade. I was just looking at II and there are numerous upgrades available with my SW studio and 1 bedroom units. I can get larger units well into the spring at many desirable locations. Once Marriott controls the points system, my SW silver won't trade well at all.

Those who own the top-tier resorts will be the winners in a points based system. The rest of us will get less vacation days for our MF.

The other problem with this points transition is availablity with Marriott. If a small number of people switch to points, Marriott won't have many units available for owners to use. You might have the points for Hawaii or Aruba, but no units are available.

Thanks Marriott, but I'll stick with II.

I am guessing that Marriott will be following DVC's system. It is the only way this could make sense. I think they will only be selling points at resorts in the future and by buying into a certain "home base", you will have booking priority at that resort of that resort type (beaches, ski weeks, deserts...). I am also guessing that they will change MFs to a per point value rather than per week. Otherwise it is completely unfair and skewed.

What I don't understand is how they plan to balance the platinum versus lower demand weeks. DVC's point system relies heavily on the fact that most of their resorts are in FL or will be CA and HI, where weather is great 95% of the time. There is no "silver week" in these locations. Demand is good year round due to the draw of the amusement parks, etc. Sure week 52 is the highest but the remaining weeks are pretty strong too.

That is not the case at a ski location, for example, where the ONLY good weeks are 1-15 and maybe 51 and 52. Maybe some people will "burn off" some points by going to Breckenridge for a weekend in the summer but who the heck will ever be there in the Spring and Fall? You can make the same argument for other seasonal locations like Myrtle Beach.

Also, I think a 6 month period to book at your non-home resort is just too darn short. We all want FF miles -- good luck getting any airplane tickets for cheap at 6 months out. It should be 8 or 9 months like Starwood. The only thing left for points at 6 months will be Tue thru Thurs nites during silver season.

Katherine

 

[VacationPro]

I own Hyatt as well as Marriott. With Hyatt, a platinum week at any of their resorts is worth the same amount of points. There is no consideration on whether one resort sold platinum weeks at a higher price than another. This crap Marriott wants to do giving some platinum weeks more points than others is a rip off. People purchased their timeshare believing they would be able to trade into any of their resorts and receive the same size unit.

I will never join their points system especially if they are going to charge an extra fee. Marriott used to have a good name in the timeshare business, but the way they have been screwing their owners the last few years has changed that opinion. I no longer trust any change they are making because I know it is only being done to devalue what we presently own and increase their revenue.

I believe that Marriott looked at all the points based systems out there and will adopt all the parts that will give them the most revenue. They had no concern for nickel and dimming their owners to death or giving their present owners better value. In fact the more entry fees and service charges they can charge the better.

I bought my weeks based on the present format and all the sales pitches given by their sales people. If they want to change the rules now, they should not charge for entry into the new system for present owners. In addition, present owners should be able to keep everything we have now with regards to the trading format through Interval. That means keeping AC's, flexichange, and trading studios for 2 bedroom units in Hawaii or any other resort destination anything less is a rip off. I want what I was told I would get. If they try to do anything else, I can't wait until I attend another sales presentation and they try to sell me points. I will tell the salesperson what I think of Marriott.

I agree. I think a platinum week should be equivalent anywhere. I think the home preference period helps to protect the value of the most demanded weeks (and therefore aids Marriott's desire to maximize revenue from those weeks). I answered this survey and was pretty adamant about this.

In my mind, a point system can be a very valuable tool for all owners if it is implemented correctly. For those that love the highest demanded locations, they can own there and get the preference period. Others that like to go to a variety of places can buy the cheapest points (combination of initial cost + maintenance fees) to use.

 

[lovearuba]

I didnt receive the survey

HI
Dont get me wrong, I dont care to fill it out but some folks asked who got it. I am an owner and unfortunately didnt know about tug so bought directly from Marriott. My two cents is that I think it will be an approvement over the interval process.

 

[Pens_Fan]

I agree. I think a platinum week should be equivalent anywhere.

Please explain this logic to me.

Why should a platinum week purchased for $50,000 be equivalent to a platinum week purchased for $25,000?

I'm not trying to be smart here. I'm just trying to understand. It's like saying that the buying the best Kia is equivalent to buying the best Mercedes and we should be able to swap.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Why should a platinum week purchased for $50,000 be equivalent to a platinum week purchased for $25,000?

Are you referring to the purchase price from the developer? Since resales prices are all over map -- how does that come into play based on your question?

 

[Pens_Fan]

Are you referring to the purchase price from the developer? Since resales prices are all over map -- how does that come into play based on your question?

In this case, yes I am talking about purchase price from a developer, but the question works in general.

All platinums, or all golds or silvers, are not equal. Why should they be treated as such?

I appreciate the ability to trade into different properties, but I would never expect them to all be equivalent.

 

[jimf41]

All Platinums equal?

I don't know how this would work. I own two plat and one plat plus week in Frenchman's Cove. I love Ocean Pointe but I hardly think my plat O/S unit at OP is the equivalent of the weeks in Frenchman's Cove. I think we all have to wait and see exactly what the new program is before we can figure out if it's good or bad for each of us.

At the tour I took last week at OP the rep said they were going to a points system but she was totally confused about the difference between MRP's and the points that may be assigned to a unit under the proposed system. She did harp on a few sales points that I found amusing. She said there was no secondary (resale) market for Marriott's. Then she said no one would want to buy resale anyway because you only get "...half a program because you can't trade for points". Most sales folks I've toured with are at least somewhat knowledgeable about the system, this one was a little confused. I think next time I'll bring my laptop and put a video link up so we could all enjoy the entertainment.

 

[cigarboo]

I am guessing that Marriott will be following DVC's system. It is the only way this could make sense. I think they will only be selling points at resorts in the future and by buying into a certain "home base", you will have booking priority at that resort of that resort type (beaches, ski weeks, deserts...). I am also guessing that they will change MFs to a per point value rather than per week. Otherwise it is completely unfair and skewed.

What I don't understand is how they plan to balance the platinum versus lower demand weeks. DVC's point system relies heavily on the fact that most of their resorts are in FL or will be CA and HI, where weather is great 95% of the time. There is no "silver week" in these locations. Demand is good year round due to the draw of the amusement parks, etc. Sure week 52 is the highest but the remaining weeks are pretty strong too.

I think you're right about Marriott looking towards a DVC type points system. A lot of the questions they're asking sounds like the DVC system and your points about DVC are exactly right. I will also add that even though I think DVC points seem logical and I just bought into it, there are increasingly more gripes about that program as more resorts have been added. Even though there is a "home base" booking period(11-7mos), the owners of the higher demand resorts are having trouble booking at their own resort. God forbid you wanted to take a trip to your home resort and didn't realize it until 6 mos 28 days out. As soon as the 7 mos window opens, forget it. You're staying somewhere else. Fortunately for Disney, most of the resorts are at high demand places(for Disney lovers) that are attractive most times of the year. Say you wanted to go to WDW(onsite), at least you still get to go, even though you don't get to stay at the resort that you bought into. For Marriott, there are too many resorts and too many seasonal places to make a points system work for the owners. The nice thing about the current program with II is, even with short notice, you can get into some really nice resorts during flexchange. I will miss that, if Marriott changes and that's the benefit that made me feel timesharing with Marriott was really worthwhile. DVC is totally different because I bought with the intent of only staying at Disney, at my home resort, booking 11 mos out.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Copy of the Marriott Survey

When I took the Marriott Survey, I did a screen capture of the entire question set.

So if anyone wants to look at the survey, or wants to see how the survey is worded (for future reference), just PM me with your email address and I can send you a copy.

Note: The file is quite big (600k), which is why I cannot post it as an attachment (limit 100k). The .doc file contains screen images, not text.

 

[CMF]

Musings: How is the average Marriott owner responding to the survey?

I guess it's fair to say that the Tug consensus is that this is a bad deal for owners. No?

How do you think the average Marriott owner will respond?

And, what are the chances that Marriott will not follow through?

Maybe it's poll time? Moderators?

Charles

 

[thinze3]

Please explain this logic to me.

Why should a platinum week purchased for $50,000 be equivalent to a platinum week purchased for $25,000?....

I agree. The typical $25,000 week also pays MUCH LES in maintence fees and taxes than the $50,000 week.

Examples:
Legends Edge and Manor Club pay about $900
while Kauai Beach Club and Maui Lahaina pay over $1700.

They resorts do not currently have the same trading power and should not be offered the same number of points in a new trading system IMO.


Terry

 

[musical2]

I am one of the lucky ones who traded an MMC 2BR for a Marriott Ko Olina 2BR Ocean View during the 4th of July week this past summer. With a new points based system, it won't happen again. I'm just glad I took that vacation when I did. I don't think I will join the new points based system. I'll stick with II and take my chances. This in conjunction with the devaluation of reward points has really done it for me into buying any more Marriott timeshares. It is definitely DVC for me from now on if when I decide to buy more.

 

[SDKath]

It is also MUCH easier to devalue a point system. I am sure Marriott will come up with some statement like "the points at this resort will ALWAYS be the same and NEVER go up..." like DVC.

However, every new resort they build requires more and more points, some almost double. So if you bought points in 2009 and you needed 20,000 to get a room in resort X, by 2019, the new resort right next to X will cost you 40,000 points. X will be considered the older, less glamorous resort and all of a sudden everyone has to buy twice as many points to stay in the nicer places.

That doesn't happen when you buy a platinum week and trade it to another resort 10 years later without a point system in play.

Katherine

 

[LAX Mom]

I agree. The typical $25,000 week also pays MUCH LES in maintence fees and taxes than the $50,000 week.

Examples:
Legends Edge and Manor Club pay about $900
while Kauai Beach Club and Maui Lahaina pay over $1700.

They resorts do not currently have the same trading power and should not be offered the same number of points in a new trading system IMO.


Terry

What about the Park City Marriotts? Marriott sells weeks 51 & 52 there for over $50,000, I'm not sure what the platinum weeks go for but it's a lot more than $25,000. The MF's are just over $1,000 a week at Summit Watch and Mountainside should be less than that.

It's true the expensive Hawaii Marriotts have high MF, but not all the expensive timeshares are in Hawaii.

I think Marriott has a tough job setting points for their numerous properties and convincing the owners it's a fair equitable allocation of points. How can they possibly accomplish this without upsetting many of their owners?

 

[VacationPro]

I agree. The typical $25,000 week also pays MUCH LES in maintence fees and taxes than the $50,000 week.

Examples:
Legends Edge and Manor Club pay about $900
while Kauai Beach Club and Maui Lahaina pay over $1700.

They resorts do not currently have the same trading power and should not be offered the same number of points in a new trading system IMO.


Terry

Well, I know for a fact that this is a system that Hyatt uses, since I own a diamond week. I also believe that Hilton uses this equivalent.

Starwood also uses something similar, although there are some differences for the differences between Westin and Sheraton.

A 2BR Westin in Palm Springs in platinum season has the same Star Options as a 2BR in Hawaii. The cost of the buy-in is not relevant. Starwood gives a home resort preference to help owners get the best time slots and views, which I do think is fair, and for many is worth the premium in initial cost and maintenance fees.

 

[thinze3]

What about the Park City Marriotts? Marriott sells weeks 51 & 52 there for over $50,000 ...

Those absolutely should get the maximum points and probably will IMO.

... A 2BR Westin in Palm Springs in platinum season has the same Star Options as a 2BR in Hawaii. The cost of the buy-in is not relevant. Starwood gives a home resort preference to help owners get the best time slots and views, which I do think is fair, and for many is worth the premium in initial cost and maintenance fees.

The difference is in the classifications. Starwood calls their typical high season for most resorts "platinum plus", whether it is located in Palm Springs or Hawaii. But, many of starwood resorts do not even have a platinum plus season, i.e. SBP, PGA and all Orlando resorts. These are more comparable to what I was referring to (Manor Club & Legends Edge) and do not generate enough points from their high seasons to trade into Hawaii annualy.

I do agree that the priority period for getting back into your home resort is worth something in itself, but it appears that Marriott will want an exta annual fee for this option. Unless Marriott is planning on putting all MF's on even keel and adding the "priority fees" on top of that, I wouldn't be for an equal-points-for-all-platinums type of system.


Terry