• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Vacation Club Points Survey

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
PensFan >>What is to stop Marriott from providing other offers to only developer purchased units?<<

davidvel >>Absolutely nothing, so long as it does not take away from other rights granted to resale purchasers. (ie. changing time to reserve your week, as was suggested by one poster as only "adding" to the rights of developer-purchase owners).<<

davidvel, do you mean what I posted? I'm sorry for confusing you and me both. I should have separated my thoughts more clearly; obviously my follow-up post didn't do the trick.

Specifically, with no regard for developer- or resale-purchase, I hope that a deeded week transferred to points under this proposed system garners a home resort priority somehow, and that the multi-week owners still have a booking advantage over single-week owners. With regard to developer- and resale-purchase, I think that there are ways for Marriott to differentiate between them and I'm in favor of them making a distinction wherever possible.

About "core rights to reserve", though - isn't the 13-month rule a fairly recent development for Marriott? How did they go about making that change without violating rules? And if they didn't violate any rules when they gave multi-week owners a booking advantage, what's to stop them from giving developer-purchased owners a similar advantage?

Susan
 

judys19058

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
101
Reaction score
0
Location
Fountain Valley, CA
Booking home resort

How does this point system work for booking into your home resort? Am I now in competition with all Marriott owners to book my Maui week? If I wish to upgrade to a 2 bedroom, how will that impact other owners who already are deeded to a 2 bedroom? This program seems to be good for owners of less desirable properties since they may be able to book more desired weeks. When will properties become available to all point seekers? What am I not understanding?
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
EVERY week is a developer purchased week and holds equal rights. That is may have been resold later to a different owner doesn't suddenly turn it into something else. Trying to make a distinction is foolhardy for Marriott & the owners. Once the week is sold it never changes in rights to use and the right to sell is included. There is no "added value" to be given as they are all developer purchased and all due the same value.

We're looking at it differently. You're looking at the product, the week, and I'm looking at the owner of the week. I think Marriott would be foolhardy to not make a distinction, in some fashion, between developer- and resale-purchase owners. The fact that they already do offer something to one and not the other leads me to believe that they see a value in rewarding their loyal customers.

This argument is ages old and I'm sure I'm not saying anything new. But the way I look at it is, my week is never going to return what I paid for it if I sell it on the resale market. My resale buyer will know that s/he is excluded from any added value Marriott gave me as a developer-purchaser (just as today's resale buyer knows that trading for points is not an option,) but if I'm in the market for a new week somewhere else then Marriott's past history with me will be a factor in where I purchase. That's all.

Susan
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
8,477
Reaction score
5,428
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
davidvel, do you mean what I posted? I'm sorry for confusing you and me both. I should have separated my thoughts more clearly; obviously my follow-up post didn't do the trick.
It can get confusing around here, especially if you miss an intervening post! I don't disagree with your post, I have simply been trying to consitently show the distinction between any trading system (Be it points, II, Redweek, Marriott's new system, etc.) and your rights to reserve and use your own week at your resort. The lines seem to get blurred a lot. In a way, all of those are just "optional" systems that an owner and/or Marriott can engage in.
Specifically, with no regard for developer- or resale-purchase, I hope that a deeded week transferred to points under this proposed system garners a home resort priority somehow, and that the multi-week owners still have a booking advantage over single-week owners. With regard to developer- and resale-purchase, I think that there are ways for Marriott to differentiate between them and I'm in favor of them making a distinction wherever possible.
I agree, and frankly Marriott can do anything it wants with its system and treat anyone how they want--people have a right not to participate and just use their week the traditional way. (Occupy, gift, rent, trade). I have few opinions about what they will do.
About "core rights to reserve", though - isn't the 13-month rule a fairly recent development for Marriott? How did they go about making that change without violating rules?
I only have personal experience with the recorded docs for Shadow Ridge and the 13/12 rule is in the original recorded docs of this project. I am not sure that they haven't violated the rules by allowing this rule to apply to owners of different resorts (or if they in fact changed it and it was recorded differently), but that has been hashed out in a prior thread and I don't want to get too off topic...
 

JimIg23

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
948
Reaction score
0
I don't see how they could make a distinction between direct purchase and resales in a points based system. Reduce the amount of time someone would be able to reserve a non-home resort week? Reduce the point value for trading? I don't see that being viable. Does any other point system make a distinction between direct purchase and resale? For the amount of resales out there, it would seem silly.
 

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
11,183
Reaction score
5
Location
Rochester, NY
Cannot play with owners base rights

I don't see how they could make a distinction between direct purchase and resales in a points based system. Reduce the amount of time someone would be able to reserve a non-home resort week? Reduce the point value for trading? I don't see that being viable. Does any other point system make a distinction between direct purchase and resale? For the amount of resales out there, it would seem silly.

Not even Wyndham was able to make a distinction between resale & retail - they had to come up with a bunch of bogus "VIP" perks that cannot infringe on the basic value of the ownership at a cost that now represents a 95%+ premium for those that fall for it. If Marriott chooses the same type of short sighted "penalties" to resale buyers - which are actually costly additions, paid for by the developer as they are NOT part of the actual sale - for retail buyers that can and are reduced on any whim - no guarantees for your extra $$) then Marriott sellers can look forward to even lower, depressed resale values (and the continued debunking of the ROFR nonsense already proven not to support resale pricing) . If that's your goal push for resale/retail differences that actually only benefit Marriott sales not the owners just like the now discredited ROFR. Bad move and unlikely to occur unless Marriott plans to defend themselves in some serious lawsuits they will lose if they actually try to alter the base rights a purchase entitles the buyer. Read the 400+ page disclosure they HAVE to honor. Cannot be done and they know it.
 

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
15,814
Reaction score
1,756
Location
McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
Resorts Owned
Grandview At Las Vegas

[triennial - points]
Deeded Property Cannot Be Diminished Upon Resale.

I'm sure I'm not saying anything new. But the way I look at it is, my week is never going to return what I paid for it if I sell it on the resale market. My resale buyer will know that s/he is excluded from any added value Marriott gave me as a developer-purchaser (just as today's resale buyer knows that trading for points is not an option,) but if I'm in the market for a new week somewhere else then Marriott's past history with me will be a factor in where I purchase.
The only reason resale timeshares go for a fraction of the price of full-freight timeshares is that developer sales are way overpriced, not that developer sales carry any inherent worth over resales.

Marriott, I suppose, could sell its loyal customers some sort of club membership in the manner of T.H.E. Club (formerly Club SunTerra) that evaporates upon resale of the underlying timeshare property. All ownership rights & privileges that go with the underlying timeshare property, however, remain unchanged upon resale.

Any timeshare company is asking for trouble if it sets up separate use classes for owners who bought from the company on the 1 hand & owners who bought resale on the other hand.

That is, whatever the original timeshare owner gets by buying at full freight from the timeshare company, that's exactly what that owner has the right to sell in turn to somebody else. And when somebody else buys it, what that buyer gets is precisely the same as what the original full-freight purchaser formerly owned.

What it is that's owned is spelled out right there in black & white on the deed. Nothing about reselling a deeded timeshare -- & nothing about buying that same deeded timeshare resale -- transforms the essential nature of what it is that's being bought & sold, no matter how much the timeshare company or its loyal customers would wish it to be otherwise.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

potchak

TUG Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
1
Location
Durham, NC
Wow, lots of opinions here. Now I will add mine.

1)I don't think Marriott will do anything more than offering MR points for those that purchase developer. If you look at DVC, there is no difference between resale and developer sales. I think they will need to keep it this way if they are actually going to keep the values high.

2) In order for a points program to work as DVC has, the points have to remain the same with only minor tweaking in the seasons if necessary. Granted, when they add on new resorts, the new resorts seem to have a higher value in most cases, but if you look at Animal Kingdom villas, the standard view rooms are the same # of points as the standard view rooms at Boardwalk. The points values at Bay lake towers are high because they know that more people are going to want them. I think this is reasonable in this case. However, I believe Marriott should have a max cap on the number of points they will have on resorts. If Hawaii is going to be 58K points for Oceanview 2bd, then I do not believe any other new resort should be higher than this.

3) Seasons- I think they should mimic Disney's 5 season plan. Everyone knows that platinum isn't always red time. Example- April or Oct in Williamsburg aren't very good traders, but yet are platinum. This is difficult to implement because all plat owners get the same number of points but could use less to stay in Oct.

4) Maintenance fees- I am of the belief that maintenance fees should not come into play when determining the number of points available for that week. My MMC is lower in cost to run because it is in a lower cost area. That is the way it is. I shouldn't receive lower points because I bought in a lower cost area. It should be based on supply and demand. I also do not believe that those in lower seasons should be given a discount on the MF's if a points based system is implemented. You chose to buy a lower season and your discount was in the price you paid initially. There are costs involved in running your resort, and that is what the MF's are for. You still have the right to use your week in the way you originally purchased- as a week in that season- you do not have to join the points program and can continue using II for your exchanges in Flextime.

5) Point values- unfortunately, it is commonly known that some resorts do not have the same trade values as others. Let's face it, the most highly requested resorts should have a higher point value. Hawaii and the caribbean should have a higher value than Williamsburg. Although I do have to say I am disappointed with this and may not choose the points program for my MMC and MSE weeks because of this. The other problem is that the platinum season is so long in some instances, that the June-Aug timeframe may be incredibly difficult to get all over, but the rest of the time is not, so this needs to be taken into consideration in places like HH and Myrtle beach. Sorry, but true- but this is also why I recommend the 5 season model since there are slower times in Hawaii as well even though it shows plat all year.

6) Home resort priority- I think with any points program you need to keep the home resort priority without charging for it. PERIOD. Charging you for something you have if you just kept your week is insulting. Now, if you want to charge me to have priority on resort in which I do not own, this I could accept, but probably wouldn't take advantage of.

7) Reservation timeframes- DVC uses 11months at your home resort and 7 months every where else. I like this format, but as others have said, makes getting FF miles difficult. I think I would like to see a 13 month timeframe for home resort and 10 or 11 months for anywhere else to be able to take advantage of the FF miles.

8) Fees- charging me to use a points program is ridiculous. If you want to enhance the current program that is great- just do not charge me anything for it. Frankly, I won't pay a dime to enroll in a new points program. The fees of $159 are a little outrageous too. If this fee were to include my membership into II, then it might be worth it, but not per week. I think Worldmark includes the II membership in their fees, so I think that would be a nice enhancement, without breaking the bank. Although, $159 is still very high. Right now we pay that to II for an international exchange, granted we still have to pay for our membership, but we would still have to if they didn't include it in the $159 fee anyway.

9) Flextime - I believe that Marriott should also have their own version of Flextime in points. I know Worldmark has reduced values for units booked within 60 days. I think Marriott should do the same. If it is 28K points to book Williamsburg in Oct, but there are still weeks left, then maybe they drop the value to half so it is like being able to get 2 weeks for your 1 just by using flextime. Or maybe if your value is only 14K because you own a lower season, you could still take advantage of flextime and get a larger unit, or a better season.

Of course, we all know this is all speculation. We will not know what Marriott will do until they announce the new program. I am sure they are still trying to tweak it, but who knows, they might have it right around the corner and try to get it done by early 2009 for reservations starting in 2010.

I would hope that this enhancement they are trying to do is exactly that, and not another money maker on their loyal customers. Although, if you don't like it, you can always stick with the way it has always been before. Weeks and exchanges through II, but will we still keep our priority?

Just my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
50,990
Reaction score
22,489
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
5) Point values- unfortunately, it is commonly known that some resorts do not have the same trade values as others. Let's face it, the most highly requested resorts should have a higher point value. Hawaii and the caribbean should have a higher value than Williamsburg. Although I do have to say I am disappointed with this and may not choose the points program for my MMC and MSE weeks because of this. The other problem is that the platinum season is so long in some instances, that the June-Aug timeframe may be incredibly difficult to get all over, but the rest of the time is not, so this needs to be taken into consideration in places like HH and Myrtle beach. Sorry, but true- but this is also why I recommend the 5 season model since there are slower times in Hawaii as well even though it shows plat all year..

The only problem with this is if a resort has only one season currently. Hawaii for example. If you assign five seasons then how do you divy up the points. Five seasons as follows: 10K, 7.5K, 5K, 2.5K, 1K. The problem is that everyone now owns platinum and they all deserve and want 10K points. Just try giving one of those owners 1K and see what happens. If you give everyone 10K points then you have an oversold resort. If you do this at many of the current resorts, then you have an oversold system and many unhappy owners when they can't book anywhere in the system. I don't see how they could change the seasons at resorts currently sold or selling. New resorts would be different though.
 
Last edited:

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Wow, lots of opinions here. Now I will add mine.

Wow - very well thought out and sensible, Michelle. Some thoughts:

1)I don't think Marriott will do anything more than offering MR points for those that purchase developer. If you look at DVC, there is no difference between resale and developer sales. I think they will need to keep it this way if they are actually going to keep the values high.

I'm still holding out hope for any kind of added value - priority at the check-in desk (all other things being equal, of course), or a further discount on flexchange-type offerings, or the moon maybe? That's it, I'll keep reaching for the moon!

4) Maintenance fees- .... I also do not believe that those in lower seasons should be given a discount on the MF's if a points based system is implemented. You chose to buy a lower season and your discount was in the price you paid initially. There are costs involved in running your resort, and that is what the MF's are for ....

Absolutely agree, with no regard for resale- or developer-purchase price. MF have nothing to do with the individual weeks, everything to do with running the entire resort.

6) Home resort priority- I think with any points program you need to keep the home resort priority without charging for it. PERIOD. Charging you for something you have if you just kept your week is insulting. Now, if you want to charge me to have priority on resort in which I do not own, this I could accept, but probably wouldn't take advantage of.

Agree on the no-fees for home resort priority. As we continue to exchange, though, I can see a point in the future where we find a new favorite and might pay for the priority of booking there on a semi-regular basis. That's a nice feature, actually, and would be much less expensive than buying another week.

7) Reservation timeframes- DVC uses 11months at your home resort and 7 months every where else. I like this format, but as others have said, makes getting FF miles difficult. I think I would like to see a 13 month timeframe for home resort and 10 or 11 months for anywhere else to be able to take advantage of the FF miles.

The only thing I'd add to this, Marriott should somehow continue with a multi-week ownership booking priority. Maybe 13-month/12-month/10-month?

8) Fees- charging me to use a points program is ridiculous. If you want to enhance the current program that is great- just do not charge me anything for it. Frankly, I won't pay a dime to enroll in a new points program....

I'd have to see the actual fees. If the costs are comparable to the nickel-and-diming that happens now for exchanging and other options, I'd be satisfied.

9) Flextime - I believe that Marriott should also have their own version of Flextime in points. I know Worldmark has reduced values for units booked within 60 days. I think Marriott should do the same. If it is 28K points to book Williamsburg in Oct, but there are still weeks left, then maybe they drop the value to half so it is like being able to get 2 weeks for your 1 just by using flextime. Or maybe if your value is only 14K because you own a lower season, you could still take advantage of flextime and get a larger unit, or a better season.

Love this idea!

Just my 2 cents.

Worth every penny.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
50,990
Reaction score
22,489
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Here is what I think Marriott may be thinking with regards to home resort priority. Say you own at NCV and you can't book those hard to get July weeks. Those willing to pay a fee will be guaranteed one of those weeks if they pay a fee. The number of priority "passes" sold will be limited but will lock in one of those weeks for you if you book by X date. I know many people will pay for this "privilege."
 

TheTimeTraveler

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
6,228
Reaction score
3,068
Location
Florida
Fee for Joining the points program

It is my understanding that Marriott does plan to charge a fee to those interested in joining the points program.

Also, the person I was speaking with indicated that Marriott will set different fees for different lengths of times that people wish to join, i.e. you can join for three years at XXX dollars, or you can join for ten years for XXX+ dollars.

Bottom line, you won't have to join forever, and you can try it out for a few years (assuming you select that option) and then decide to revert back to the Interval International method of trading.
 

BocaBum99

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
4
Location
Boca Raton, FL
I think you're right about Marriott looking towards a DVC type points system.

There is NO way this will be anything close to DVC. I highly doubt that ANY Marriott owners would trade their Marriott deeded ownership into an RTU that expires in 40-years.

If anything, Marriott should consider creating a Hyatt like system where everyone keeps their deeds and priorites until the time where all inventory gets automatically turned over to Hyatt. That is what they should do.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Here is what I think Marriott may be thinking with regards to home resort priority. Say you own at NCV and you can't book those hard to get July weeks. Those willing to pay a fee will be guaranteed one of those weeks if they pay a fee. The number of priority "passes" sold will be limited but will lock in one of those weeks for you if you book by X date. I know many people will pay for this "privilege."

Hmmmm. To me, home resort priority means that points could be used to book at the resort where an owner bought, before an owner of a different resort can use his/her points to book there. Michelle's idea of implementing a booking procedure similar to DVC's makes sense in that regard.

Your thought would prioritize owners of the same resort within seasons. Hmmmmm.

We purposely bought one gold and one platinum week at the same resort with the notion that we'd try every year for the two weeks straddling Memorial Day weekend, knowing full well that we'd be competing with every other gold week owner for the prime last week of that season.

If Marriott offered what you propose, a priority pass for a select group of weeks within a certain season (i.e the four most-wanted July weeks of platinum season,) could they also offer a priority pass for a single week in a season? Is there anything in the documents to prohibit either option?

Wait, wouldn't that be tantamount to offering a fixed-week option where it is not now available?

I'm just not sure what we'd be willing to pay for, but if the option is available and we don't take it while others do, we might never be able to use our weeks in the way that we intended when we bought. It seems the odds are better for us the way it is now, without a point system and possible priorities.

So much to think about. :confused:
 

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,263
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
Here is what I think Marriott may be thinking with regards to home resort priority. Say you own at NCV and you can't book those hard to get July weeks. Those willing to pay a fee will be guaranteed one of those weeks if they pay a fee. The number of priority "passes" sold will be limited but will lock in one of those weeks for you if you book by X date. I know many people will pay for this "privilege."

Except wouldn't you then be taking away from original purchasers' rights? After all, anyone buying into Platinum was told they would have an equal chance to secure one of those coveted weeks. If you enacted this policy, then you would essentially be making those July weeks a Platinum+extra fee and taking them out of the Platinum season that owners bought into.
 

JimC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
972
Reaction score
0
Resorts Owned
Disney - AKV, BCV, OKW, VGC; Marriott - Canyon Villas/Shadow Ridge, Cypress Harbour
There is NO way this will be anything close to DVC. I highly doubt that ANY Marriott owners would trade their Marriott deeded ownership into an RTU that expires in 40-years.

If anything, Marriott should consider creating a Hyatt like system where everyone keeps their deeds and priorites until the time where all inventory gets automatically turned over to Hyatt. That is what they should do.


I don't believe that poster was referring to DVC's limited term deeded ownership but rather how the points system works year-to-year. It is a pretty flexible program but comes with a fairly steep premium which Disney can command.
 

BocaBum99

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
4
Location
Boca Raton, FL
I don't believe that poster was referring to DVC's limited term deeded ownership but rather how the points system works year-to-year. It is a pretty flexible program but comes with a fairly steep premium which Disney can command.

Disney's actual point program isn't much different than many others. Technically, it's about average. The reason why Disney's sell at a premium is that they are integrated into the theme park experience. DVC resorts that are outside of the theme park setting don't do nearly as well.

Disney has done a good job at showing the economics of owning vs. renting from Disney at a Disney resort. That is why it keeps a premium.

Unless Marriott decides to move completely away from any semblance of a deeded week, then it can't come close to being like DVC. In DVD, 10 points has a maintenance fee of 1/10th of a package worth 100 points at a given resort.

When you own a deeded week, it has a maintenance fee based on the allocation the resort gives. Therefore, just like in HGVC, Hyatt and others, maintenance fees vary by resort, season and unit size. That is a HUGE difference that cannot be overlooked. It is a far greater difference than viewing how points are used from one year to the next.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
50,990
Reaction score
22,489
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Except wouldn't you then be taking away from original purchasers' rights? After all, anyone buying into Platinum was told they would have an equal chance to secure one of those coveted weeks. If you enacted this policy, then you would essentially be making those July weeks a Platinum+extra fee and taking them out of the Platinum season that owners bought into.

An owner would still have the ability to book those weeks. Not all weeks would be the platinum+extra fee, only the one Marriott sells with the guaranty. The question made it seem that this option would be limited to x percentage of weeks/units. You wouldn't be taking anything away, just making it harder.
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
8,477
Reaction score
5,428
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
Except wouldn't you then be taking away from original purchasers' rights? After all, anyone buying into Platinum was told they would have an equal chance to secure one of those coveted weeks. If you enacted this policy, then you would essentially be making those July weeks a Platinum+extra fee and taking them out of the Platinum season that owners bought into.
No, the priority (and "new" system as a whole) would only apply to those weeks of owners that deposited into the "new" points system. If Marriott leverages these weeks ahead of owners who are not part of the system this would be an unfair business practice. (This is covered earlier in this thread.)
 

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,263
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
An owner would still have the ability to book those weeks. Not all weeks would be the platinum+extra fee, only the one Marriott sells with the guaranty. The question made it seem that this option would be limited to x percentage of weeks/units. You wouldn't be taking anything away, just making it harder.

But making it harder would be an unfair business practice; I would not think Marriott could legally take reservable units out of the pool that everyone has access to, by selling guaranteed July reservations after the fact (since many people have already bought with the understanding that x number of weeks would be available for reserving).
 

JimIg23

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
948
Reaction score
0
I agree in part, I don't see them being able to guarantee one specific month of a season (lets say July or August - Platinum - in NCV), it would give a substantial disadvantage to other NCV Platinum owners who want summer and would see a substantial part of their season blocked off from getting.
 

BocaBum99

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
4
Location
Boca Raton, FL
As deeded property owners, MCVI members have the Right to Use their timeshare units according to their ownership and reservation system. Any violation of those rights by Marriott would result in a class action law suit that Marriott would surely lose.

So, in order to create a point system, Mariott must create a program and agreement that has the owners assign their Right to Use rights to Marriott. It could be in the form of a 3 year lease like RCI Points. Or, it could be selling back to Marriott and redeeding into a new program.

This means that the Marriott program goes nowhere unless it gets people to enroll enmasse. I don't see it happening with what I see on this thread.
 

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,263
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
No, the priority (and "new" system as a whole) would only apply to those weeks of owners that deposited into the "new" points system. If Marriott leverages these weeks ahead of owners who are not part of the system this would be an unfair business practice. (This is covered earlier in this thread.)

Are you saying then that, if for example, 10% of owners opted into the new points system, then 10% of the villas would then be available for priority reservations? That makes sense.

I had read dioxide's post (perhaps erroneously) to mean that Marriott could now sell priority booking in the new points system, so that anyone buying into the system would get priority reserving the weeks (taking those coveted weeks out of the pool available for booking). If the priority is only given in proportion to the percentage of people opting into the new system, then the only people who would find it harder to book those coveted weeks are owners opting into the points system but not willing to pay for priority reservations. Original owners, if I am understanding what you are saying, would still maintain the proportional percentage of weeks which they could try to book.

I guess my question is if 10% of the owners, for example, opted into the new system and purchased the added platinum+extra fee option to book those coveted July weeks, would now 10% of the total booking for that week be available for them to reserve, or would they be allowed to secure those July weeks and leave fewer coveted weeks for the non-points members to potentially book? If the priority for booking was limited to the points systems' share of weeks, then the losers in this case would be those opting into the new points system but not opting to pay more for priority reservations; in essence, Marriott would be finding a way to make people pay even more for what they sorta had in the first place (granted, they may get the benefit of reserving those coveted weeks, but not if enough of the people converting to points pay for the option, in which case they will be paying for nothing; alternatively, if they convert to points and don't opt for priority reservations, they better forget about having a chance to get a coveted week).
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
8,477
Reaction score
5,428
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
Yes, the new system can only contain those weeks of owners who opt in (or weeks Marriott legitimately obtains another way).

My point, and also that of BOCABUM99 above, is that Marriott's new system cannot abrogate the rights of owners who don't join the program. In theory, it should be no different than II, Redweek, etc, in that owners would have to reserve their weeks and deposit them to the system.

In practice however, my skeptical side sees Marriott implementing some "automated" system that would transfer the best weeks before non-participants have a chance to reserve them. This would clearly violate the CC&Rs and other governing documents which establish how weeks are reserved. Even if they transfer x% (those in the system) of any particular week it would violate because those weeks are reseved without people having to call in or go on internet and fight with everyone else.

Many will note that this may be difficult to police, as Marriott controls all the reservation systems, but if they manipulate it they will end up in the same boat RCI is now. This will be closely watched by those who don't opt-in and Marriott better set up a compliant system.
 

travelinmom

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Messages
48
Reaction score
11
Location
Cleveland, OH
point system

I agree with the posts about the survey being confusing and too long! I can see some of the benefits of the points system, but I think the way Marriott is proposing it will only benefit Marriott. I own DVC points too. They don't charge me to book a unit at Disney. I also have a priority at my home resort. Unless I missed something, Marriott wants me to pay extra to have a home resort priority. I own 3 weeks in Myrtle Beach. I bought them because that is where we like to go regularly. I don't want another resort of a similar type ie: beach. My family doesn't like Hilton Head. The way I see their point system, I won't be given any type of priority to reserve my weeks at MB, but I'm going to be paying to maintain the resort through my maintenance fees. If their system goes through that way, there will be 3 MB weeks for sale and I'll be done with Marriott. I'll either buy more Wyndam or DVC points.

If I missed something with the home resort priority, please let me know!
 
Top